Good heavens! I am (relatively) young African American, and I toured Germany by myself for over a week (including Berlin and Hamburg). I didn't speak a word of German, and everyone I met in Germany was a total delight. They bent over backwards to talk to me and assist me. Go, go, go and have a ball!

Can't advise on your other designations, though.

Thanks -to XXX
The two friends who told me, wont go with, might be just trying to mess with me, but I cant be sure. My family is worried about my trip, being alone and all, now cant assure them that i'll be ok. Did you, see any skinheads everywhere, and did people stare at you all the time? Someone said black service men and women are there, but that doesnt mean they are welcomed and treaded nicely. Thanks for your reply

Dear Jacki, You need to read "Go Girl". It is a collection of travel essays written by Black women who have travelled all over the world. I am sure you can get it on Amazon.com. Or try CushCity. After you read it you will definitely proceed to Germany with no fear in your heart. Bon voyage. Denise

There is a forum dedicated to "minority travellers" to Europe at www.ricksteves.com
(http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/graffiti15.html)

You might want to check the website for the US dept of state, specifically the Travel Warnings page under the Secy of State.

I don't have the website, but if you go to Ask Jeeves, and ask about travel warnings, it will connect you.

Jacki: I can't imagine anyone holding anything against you in Europe. They are very diverse.

No matter what color we are, we Americans are easy to spot by how we dress and to some extent, the way we act as well.

Don't worry, be happy. Have a nice trip.

Sadly, in the US it seems I am often aware in many cities (especially the midwest) the most African Americans I see are indeed in the service industry, but not in Europe, including Germany. I seldom see blacks as maids, porters, waitresses, etc. It seems I am more aware of very affluent blacks traveling just as I do. It seems that Europeans are light years ahead of us in race relations, including many interracial couples. There are skinheads all over the US too, so I wouldn't fret about it any more than in the US, probably less.

Jacki,

I don't know what is up with your two friends. As they are not black, they can't have any personal experience in this area, so I would discount their opinion. No, I would totally ignore it.

As for how I was treated, no one cared about my race at all. No one stared. No one said anything unkind. I felt as at home as I could possibly feel given that I couldn't understand a word people were saying. And I can definitely tell you that I have been to several parts of the United States where people had never before encountered a black professional woman and behaved as though I were a circus freak. I'll take Europe any time.

As for skinheads, I've been to Europe a few times and I never saw one. Ever. Anywhere, including Germany. I think the worst thing that might happen is that someone might notice you because they might be curious about where you are from, but they'll recognize your accent and clothing and determine quickly that you are just another American tourist. If anything, people were perhaps a little more interested in engaging me in a pleasant conversation in English, but that was surely quite welcome.

On matters of personal safety, I felt plenty safe in Germany. I didn't do anything stupid, like go home with some stranger. If you practice the same obvious safety measures your use at home in New York(lock the hotel room door, don't flash wads of cash, etc.), you'll be just fine.

Please relax, go to Germany, be friendly to everyone you see, make friends with other tourists, and advise your family and friends that they were wrong. I found my first trip to Europe to be a real eye-opener, and I wouldn't trade it (or any of my trips) for anything. Oh, and one more thing. When you get back, please tell us all how it went.

If you want more info, please post on any topic. We're here to help.

To everyone - I am going to Germany and it seems that I have no more to worry about than I do living here in N.Y., where incidently, I see skin heads all the time in the subways. Thanks Denise, I will pick up the book Go Girl, and probably read it on the plane! Thanks TahitiBob, I'm going to rick Steves right after this letter. Thanks Marie, but I cant seem to find Travel Warnings, I'll keep looking. Good looking out Lee, for sure I will try not to let my manners and dress stand out too much.(looks like I'm going to have to tone down. Patrick, you make me want to move to Europe! Thanks so much. Greg, you have been mucho helpful. And Cindy, indeed I will share with you what happened on my trip. I really value my friends' advice, but everything with a grain of salt, right? I will be careful to make the distinction between being treated rudely, (if it should happen) because of being non-German from being African-American. But I am going, will have fun, talk to everyone and carry your advice. Thanks a billion.

Jacki, my friend who is Jamaican, has a 35 yo daughter who married a white german; she has lived in Germany for 10 yrs & has not felt uncomfortable, etc.
You are probably more likely to encounter overt racism in the USA. My guess is that you will have a great time. Please let "we" fodor-forum-folk know how it went. Bottom line: there are good & bad people all over. Sorry to be trite.

If you're still interested, the US State Department site is www.state.gov/travel. It has quite a bit of info beyond the warnings (which tend to be only for places with serious political instability and/or terrorism directed toward foreigners, and which are, naturally, quite conservative).

Jacki,
I lived in Germany for 3 1/2 years, and have two degrees in German literature. While I'm not black, I know a bit about Afro-German culture. Berlin is considered the center. There's a book edited by May Opitz called "Showing Our Colors" which talks about the history of this culture (with an introduction written by Audre Lorde, who lived in Berlin.) You may want to search this out - it may be of interest to you.
Hamburg is a great city. I have friends who own an English language video store - if you email me I'll give you details.
I wouldn't worry - you are no more in danger in Germany than anywhere else - in fact, you're generally safer.

I think you will probably be killed.

Even if meant tongue in cheek, that 13th comment was nasty. Very nasty. Everything previous was warm and helpful, so, Jacki, go and enjoy yourself. I bet you have a super time!

Thank you Kay, Good Witch of the West

Jacki

In my opinion, having stayed in Germany for a while and having lived in Scotland for an eternity, your biggest problem will be fending off the guys. As there are few black people in Germany or Scotland compared to the overall population, the men are very curious but not intimidating. In fact come to Scotland !!

Hi Jacki, I lived in Germany for 7 years in the 60's. My experiance was that the Germans were very upset with the way we whites treated blacks in our country. The blacks were treated exactly the same as the whites by Germans. I had some black friends and we hung out together everywhere. When they left to come back to the US however they said a FINAL GOODBY because of the way things were over here. Yes, there are skinheads over there now, but no more than in the US. Go and have a super trip.

Welcome back, Tony Hughes, aka Stellarossa. AT least I've not seen any postings from you lately, and you never did send me your US report, the continuation.

OUt of all of the positive postings about how I should go to Germany and not worry, the posting from XXX telling me that I will indeed be KILLED, is enough to scare me terribly. I am not going!

Dear Jacki, it absolutely breaks my heart that some xxx jerk could stop you from the joy of travel and the profound experience of another culture. I have been all over Europe, even as a young, single female and I never felt nearly as threatened as I do sometimes in L.A. Don't let fear ruin your trip, but try to plan as much in advance as possible. To make you feel safer, you might want to have as much booked in ahead so that you know exactly where you are going to stay and be and how to get there. Chances are you will hook up with other people,who can help you. Example, I arrived in Paris, 18 years old, no French money, late at night, nothing open, near the Train station, drunks and crazy people all around. Somewhere out of the blue this group of English people who had spent the summer working in France asked me if I needed help (I was almost in tears) I joined up with them, I pitched my sleeping bag right on the streets of Paris with this whole group of English people watching over me. I've forgotten their names but I thank them every day.Of course I was kind of green to travel pretty unprepared, a little planning and you can avoid being stuck like that. But I must stress you will
be amazed at how lovely the international community can be.
You are too good a person to let some idiot ruin your trip!

Jackii,

Come on now. Over a dozen obviously knowledgeable people--many of whom actually include their *names* and *e-mail addresses--offer really good, fact-based advice and personal experience indicating that you aren't likely to even be harassed in Germany, much less be killed.

Then one anonymous person posts an obviously sarcastic "yes, you will be killed" remark--and on the basis of that you decide not to go?

Ummm...I'm thinking one of two things. Either:

1. The second Jackii post was a fake--after all, anyone can post as anyone here. I could pretend to be Al or Bob the Nav--not very successfully, no doubt, but I could.

2. If the post is really from the same Jackii that posted the original message, then you really need to sit down and think about why you're taking this trip. If a random bad sarcastic remark from an anonymous twit can really scare you away from a fun trip to Europe after you've received tons of clearly legitimate reassurances that there's nothing to worry about, then your fears are so easily provoked that you may have a miserable time in Germany no matter what actually happens there or how much good information you get.

Hello Jacki,
First of all I bet XXX is from the US and never been to Germany, or he/she was only joking.
Regarding Budapest: There are very few blacks in Hungary, that means that people will be somewhat curious, but in no way offending. In fact many Hungarians think that black people are beautiful and exotic and will try to get to know you. (I don't mean guys trying to date you)
Yes there are a couple of skinheads in Hungary (but no more than anywhere else, or less) However skinheads in Hungary are against Gipsies and NOT blacks generally. Most of them never met a black person, so what would be the use hating them?
I lived in Szolnok, Hungary from 1981 to 1996, my first 15 years, and in all those years I saw a total of 2 black people. They were two little girls adopted by a Hungarian family, and they were treated very well everywhere! But of course there are a lot more in Budapest.
And finally, I noticed that there is a big deal made over racial discrimination in North-America, and not much of a deal in most of Europe. So when there, try not to think about you being different than anybody else. There are more blacks in the world than whites anyway. (I think)
THE POSSIBILITY OF YOU BEING KILLED IN GERMANY BECAUSE YOU ARE BLACK IS POSSIBLY LESS THAN ONE IN A BILLION!

have fun, and DON'T BE AFRAID!

In all of europen union (15 countries)
we have the same amount of murders in one year, as N.Y city have in one week

Dont worry , just go

Wasa Knäcke

Hi Jacki,
don`t worry, just go...and don`t believe xxx. I am German and know how people handle that subject. When there`s aggression from Skinheads at all it goes out to Turkish people or to people from Eastern Europe, because we have thousands of them here right now. There are 2nd grade schoolclasses in the big cities where you`ll find only two German pupils out of 30. Those things sometimes cause aggression, but black people aren`t focused by those stupid skinheads. I think it`s better for you here than in the US.

Have fun

Miriam

Jacki,
From one NYer to another, go! You'll have a great time.

I am a white girl from Sweden planning on traveling to New York. Lately, my black friends told me I shouldn't go because there are all kinds of young black gang members at every turn who will attack me and rape me because I am a young sexy blond. Are there any white people in New York? Should I cancel my trip to protect my virtue?

I see most posts are about germany, so I will add that in Warsaw, Prague, Budapest you will have no problems. Outside of large cities you may get the "looks" but they will be all positive, there are not too many black people outside of large cities, so you maybe the first that they see in their life.
Foreigners in Poland, Hungry, Czech Rep. are treated better than natives, and in your case you will have a little advantage You also may find natives that are black, and who enjoy being mistaken for a foreigner Germany has it's problems, but the situation with skinheads got improved, since it was scaring the tourists (and their dollars away, so you should have no problems there as well. Go and enjoy!

Dear Michel..

The figures I got from an British or American poular magazin (newsweek??) I picked up some 5-6 years ago travelling in Asia..

Yes you are right.. I should know the figures more exactly before posting it... sorry.. *S*

Guess you are 'only' something like half a year for
Sweden + Denmark and Finlnd then...

>BTW, if you're ever in the neighborhood, drop in. I'll bet you even
>money that no one will murder you.

Thank's .. Stayed in november 30 to december 2 in one of the YMCA in Manhattan.. 3 hours after our arrival my friend foud a ded man just outside our bathroom window..

By the way , liked NY city (actually only been on manhattan) a lot
Reminding me a bit of my hometown stockholm..
A city also for the people without cars and quite reliable communivcations

WASA

I am guessing XXX is a big, fat, hairy-lipped, drooling cow who hasn't had a date in ten years! (the ones with her Dad don't count)

ha ha ha, did I make you giggle?

either that, or she is actually a he, or a hermaphrodite. better yet, I am guessing he is a 12 year old boy.

jackie, don't listen to the jerk. I have traveled EVERYWHERE in Europe alone, and have felt completely safe. safer than in the States. don't let an obvious xenophobe ruin your day...

I've never heard anything about German attitudes toward blacks, but I do know a friend who is a Korean-American woman from the LA area, who spent about a year living in Berlin. She had some bad experiences, with lots of learing and/or angry looks from men on trains, buses, walking down the street, etc. For whatever, reason, there seems to be a prejudice against women who look "Asian," and a lot of German men think that Asian women have "loose morals." I don't know where this attitude comes from, but it was her experience, and it left her with a bad attitide toward Germany.

My wife, incidently, is Chinese-American, and we are going to Germany later this month. I certainly don't have any worries that we'll be killed, but I wonder if others have heard of or experienced anything of this sort in Germany.

Jacki,
If you're still out there, I'd like to add my two cents. I am an Asian-American from NYC and I have experienced incidents of ignorance both at home and abroad. For the most part, that's all they were: small, slightly unpleasant experiences that showed the ignorance of some people. I just shake my head and move on.

That being said, I think you should absolutely go to Europe. If it's your first trip abroad, it will be unforgettable, in the best possible way, as so many here have said. Not only that, but going abroad on your own will be an even more personally rewarding experience. If you've read Go Girl, then you know what I mean.

Don't let the ignorance of a very few (including that jack--- XXX) get you down. If something happens, don't sweat it and don't let it spoil the trip of a lifetime.

Most of all, have fun and don't forget to tell us all about it!

Some people (XXX)have no life and nothing better to do than try to make an impression (negative) on others. If this country (US) was as uninterested in color as most other countries, we'd have a much better society. Although I live in the US, I find Europe MUCH nicer. Sure, there are political problems and lack of A/C and gas prices are high......but the people are PEOPLE!
TV is not important...friendship is. They preserve their heritage, not tear it down and build condos. Every trip to Europe has proven this over and over. I once was helped in a parking garage in Switzerland by an ex-basketball player (yes, a black man) who lived there because he preferred European people and society to the US. Sad, isn't it.
So, you go to Europe and have a ball, as I know you will. Trust me, you'll go back many times as we have. You'll miss it between trips.

I guess some people don't recognize sarcasm even when it smashes them over their thick skulls.
First off, am I the only one that questions the legitimacy of this race baiting post? I question a women living in NY, the most cosmopolitan U.S. city, being that uninformed. But if by chance it is true, then the question is stereotyping in its worst form. I tries to point this out with my post about the stereotypes of the inner city in the U.S. Guess it didnt come across to most.

Stereotyping is dangerous and we can all fall victim to it. Specifically to BG, I doubt the "gypsy" population of Europe will agree with you rosy perception of life for minorities in air conditionless Europe.

What's this? Jacki posts a serious inquiry about whether race will be an issue in Germany. Several of us assure her that it will not.

Then XXX comes along and belittles Jacki's concerns, then tries to justify it by questioning the legitimacy of her post, characterizing the post as "race baiting" and claiming it was all just a sad little attempt to make a broader point.

XXX, you should understand that when people of color have a concern, it is a real concern to them, even if it seems outlandish to you. In my opinion, Jacki did not stereotype Germans; she just wanted to check out whether a rumor is true. I think many African Americans are sick and tired of having our concerns treated as though they were figments of overactive imaginations. Next time you come across a post about which you have nothing reasonable to say, just try nothing.

hmmm. if XXX had anything rational to say, he would have posted his real name, now wouldn't he?

odd how those types can sneer at others for "not getting the joke, I was just joking, you idiots" but MAN do they get hot under the collar when it is dished back.

if stereotyping is so dangerous, wouldn't it be more productive to debunk them rather than scare someone away from traveling?

perhaps this girl is a teenager for God's sake and has never traveled - and you jump to major conclusions, assuming NY means NYC. (look it up on a map, wouldja?) She could be from Fredonia of all places.

since when are you the police of this forum, ANYWAY? and no, I am not black, or a member of any minority actually, just outraged that someone would post such a dumb thoughtless message.

To someone who hasn't traveled much, and who maybe has heard enough of the history of a certain country to be wary (after all, their charming leader did, in this century, kill 6-9 million Jews, but who is counting, right?!?) and part of that history includes nazism and even neo-nazism, well - not a completely dumb question. I hear reports about travelers getting mugged or even killed in Guatemala - do I think that a high percentage of the people there are bad? NO. but I would want to be warned what NOT to do, if I were naive... not everyone is street smart.

sheesh. and looking down on someone for naivete is not too bright, either... I imagine even know it alls started off not knowing it all, you know...

I suppose she rides the Fredonia subway system too huh Bitsy?

I think all the constructive information on this topic that is going to be said has been said. All that's let to do now is continue the pissing match. Time to move on.

To XXX
Gypsies, huh? Been to Europe many times and if you knew anything about the history of the gypsy culture, you'd know why they enjoy their historical and present status. Read a little or better yet, go there and learn.

Sorry to disagree but I don´t think gypsies enjoy their present status. Probably they are proud of their culture but they are also the subject of various sorts of harassment and racism in Europe and more so in Eastern Europe.