PalenQ

European or at least countries like France, Germany, Sweden, etc have always had a reputation for being more open to things like topless on beaches, nudity in public parks, films and TV shoes that regularly show bare breasts - even on regular channels.

But is that changing and why?

For example a discussion of toplessness on French beaches shows that a once prevlant thing is now rarely seen except by old hags that no one gives a glance at! I recall taking my French son to the local piscine - great name for swimming pool - and nearly all women of any age were topless and the boys never seemed to get agog or whatever American boys would in a similar setting. I always thought that was a healthy thing. But now by French friends say topless is a thing of the past.

Germany - For years I saw blatant nudity in public parks - like Munich's Englischer Gardens - hundreds of naturalists laying all over - even right by the footpaths and no one batted an eye lash - now I hear such nudity in public parks is fairly rare.

Amsterdam - Vondel Park had once reserved secluded areas for open-air gay sex - not sure that is the case anymore.

Years ago in a youth hostel somewhere in Europe everyone in the room were commenting on Swedish guys sleeping naked - no pjs.

I recall seeing a volleyball game amongst high-school age kids in a German resort area and all the teen girls were topless - this I presume is no longer the case. It seemed so so normal to them all.

Iwonder why Europe seems to be getting more prudish and puritanical or is there some other explanation for the cover up?

Curious - would like to hear your experiences.

sparkchaser

Like I said in the other thread, digital cameras, smartphones, and social media have taken away the "privacy" that many a free range bosom once enjoyed. I can't see many women being ok with tourists (or locals) taking pics of their goods.

My opinion, anyway.

hetismij2

Maybe it is all the ad old Americans staring at them that has caused young women to cover up nowadays?

Seriously though people cover up more for all sorts of reasons, very few if any to do with prudishness. Worries about skin cancer, the prevalence of cameras and surveillance cameras hinder a feeling of freedom. Young people grow up with much less freedom anyway nowadays, and stripping off probably is something that wouldn't even occur to them.

HOPs (Homo ontmoetingsplekken) still exist, but generally are more controlled than in the past, thank goodness, since it is not an attractive thing to come across copulating males when walking ones dog, or stopping for a break along a motorway. It also makes them safer for the men using them.

IMDonehere

As the Euro goes down, clothes go up.

MissPrism

hundreds of naturalists laying all over

Goodness, those naturalists obviously emulate the birds nowadays. Egg laying is taking things a bit far.
I think that the naturalists might sometimes see naturists lying around

quokka

Maybe because an overkill of "bare facts" becomes boring after a while?

Pegontheroad

I really dislike the term "old hags." It's very demeaning for older women, of which I am one.

janisj

That's OK Peg -- PQ is older than you are and no one has looked at him in years

Christina

I don't really know where nudity in public parks was okay ever in France, when was that?

I think the ubiquity of small cameras is a good idea, but some of this may be just that it was a fad or something and now isn't. Lots of things change and people act differently in ways or dress differently than in prior eras.

As for parks being used for open-air gay sex, that may have happened, and still happens in places even in the US, believe it or not, but that doesn't mean this was some city-sponsored event or perfectly normal. Lots of cities have prostitutes and streetwalkers in the US, also, that doesn't make those activities ho-hum or what everyone does.

PalenQ

I apologize to janis and all other women or a certain age and will not use the term OH again - yes and no one would care to look at me au naturalist (!) natural either.

England may be bucking the trend - now with the internets I hear they have sponteneous public gatherings of au naturalists (!) even at remote places like in the Cotswolds - forget the exact term for them.

but lest some folks fitting that age group like janis get offended - notice these images of "old hags: - including Hillary Clinton and Madonna and of course the Queen of England, Wales, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Berwick-on-Tweed!

PalenQ

https://www.google.com/search?q=old+...=1600&bih=1075

Images referred to above!

MissPrism

I suppose it might be more amusing not to enlighten him
http://www.answers.com/Q/What_the_di...and_naturalist

MissPrism

Another lesson for our friend
http://www.getitwriteonline.com/arch...1402lielay.htm

Remember, I used to be a member of the scholastic profession ;-)

traveller1959

This is a thread of Americans for Americans.

Comments like that of sparkchaser reveal a total misunderstanding of European culture.

Continue speculating wildly about Europeans. The guinea pig is never asked about his thoughts.

IMDonehere

The guinea pig is never asked about his thoughts.
______________________
The guinea pigs in Europe must be highly articulate.

BTW, one of the most important social critics of American life for decades was Alexis de Tocqueville. Sometimes it takes someone with a different perspective to reveal what others think they know.

And while I have no opinion and could care less about nude sunbathers, your prejudice is telling.

PalenQ

do guinea pigs in Europe go topless?

PalenQ

I hear that nautralists in Europe often poke around nature au naturel!

bvlenci

When I first came to Italy, the cover of the Espresso (a serious weekly newsmagazine) almost always had a half-naked woman on the cover. That stopped a long time ago. A lot of TV shows had a superannuated host in a suit and tie, with a lithesome young female sidekick wearing something very succint. (The sidekick always pretended to find the bald old fart fascinating.) Now they still have the old geezer, but the sidekick is either gone or has found some clothes to put on.

I've wondered about this evolution, and I hoped it was because Italy had finally realized that women had some value other than as fodder for male fantasies.

I think that it's probably just one of those pendulum swings. When I lived in Philadelphia in the 1970s, the couple in the apartment next to mine almost always answered their door naked, and nobody thought much of it. I think the condominium association would have something to say about it nowadays.

PalenQ

bv - the British tabloid The Sun (I think that's the one not sure) always had a bossomly topless bimbo pictured on the inside page - note that they too have stopped it - or at least I read so - not sure but in light of the times - may have more to do with women's movement as you say raising approbation for being fantasy fodder to lower-class British males, some of whom no doubt bought it just for the sexy picture.

bvlenci

L'Espresso has always been a very serious magazine though! Investigative reporting, and articles about politics, literature, and high culture. They also put out one of Italy's major restaurant guides, as well as wine guides and the like. Nothing at all like the Sun.