JOHN WASHINGTON

My wife and I just returned from a 3 week trip of Europe, where we drove ourselves around France, Switzerland, Austria, Italy and Germany and finaly departed from London. Out of all these countries, we found Italy to be the worst. The place is like a third world nation. We drove into Milan from Switzerland in the evening on a Saturday and it was one of the scariest part of our trip. The place was filthy and looked like it hell. We eventually ended up in Rome and found it to be slightly better but not by much. The main Termini station was filthy with shady looking characters all around. As you walk around the station the place is littered with empty beer bottles. This is suppose to be a tourist destination ? One night we took a cab to our hotel. The meter read 9500 liras but the cab driver( highway robber) insisted that the real price was 25000 liras. Rome is crawling with pickpockets and rip off artists. After about 2 days of this dump, we decided to head to the Austrian border. On the way up we decided to drive through the country side to see what it was like. While driviing up from Orivito , there were prositutes looking for customers on the country road around midday. How nice, we thought. We drove non stop from Rome to Innsbruck in order to get out of Italy. We never felt safe in Italy, or Rome for that matter. On the Roma subway everyone has on dark sunglasses and you are constantly being scoped out. Call it paranoia if you wish. But if you go, BE PARANOID. I wasnt and I got my walltet picked on the Roma subway. The place is crawling with theives. My question is, why do people go to a country where you are made to feel like a target rather than a guest ? Why should I go over there and spend my hard earned money only to be ripped of by these ungrateful people ? I prefer to visit somewhere home where I can spend my money and provide jobs for people who work for it and appreciate it. Hence, Switzerland, Germany and England we recommend. France also has ungrateful people and in Austria it appears as they still dont see much coloured people. I had never been stared at so much before.

Aj

All one can do is assume that the name is a fake and the entire posting a joke designed to make some folks angry <BR> <BR>Kathby: You answer. <BR> <BR>--Aj

Aj

Then, of course, there's the very appropriate title of a song from Noel Coward's "Sail Away": <BR> <BR>"Why do the wrong people travel?" <BR> <BR>--Aj

Paul Rabe

I'm going to presume that "John Washington" lives in the USA; a country he thinks has no crime, no beer bottles in the streets, no shady characters near downtown railroad stations, no rip-off artists, and no prostitutes. He probably is happy that it has lots of "colored people." John considers criminals as "ungrateful" for robbing him, all people wearing sun glasses as staring at him, and people who do look at him because of his skin color (could it have been the clothes you were wearing, the ones that scream "American Tourist" on them?). <BR> <BR>You've learned a lesson, John; people are the same around the world. When poor, desparate, and marginalized people see others rich enough to travel for three weeks in Europe, they target THEM (i.e., you and I) for theft. That's why smart people NEVER carry a wallet where it can be swiped in a crowd. <BR> <BR>I, for one, will GLADLY go to Italy; which has produced more art and culture over a longer period of time than any other place in Europe, if not the world. For example, Florence -- in fifty years and with 50,000 residents -- produced Michaelangelo, Raphael, and Da Vinci (just for starters). <BR> <BR>I'm aware of the crime, dirt, and shady people of Italy; they resemble the crime, dirt, and shady people of everywhere else I travel. But NOTHING can match the quantity and quality of the beauty of that wonderful country.

Jer

Hey John, <BR>Next time try the Epcot Center in Florida. Its great because you can visit smaller versions of European countries and you'll never be more than a few miles away from the nearest Dennys! <BR>

steph

HAHAHHAHA...thats a good one Jer! <BR>

Steph

Maybe those in Austria stared at u because u were snearing your nose up at their country - not because you're black. No wonder other countries get annoyed with Americans!

John

Jer: That remark was totally stupid and inappropriate!! <BR> <BR>John; no matter where you go, if you are not careful enough,there might (...and there will) be people ready to take advantage of a situation. So you just have to be careful....About the dirty streets I agree with you, but guess what, there are a million OTHER places in Italy that are absolutely gorgeous, so do not based your opinion of a place by a couple of places (that is a little closed-minded, isn't it?)... and about people staring....why should you give a dam?

Christina

I don't know why you're all reacting so negatively to <BR>John's post. I've never been to Italy, but have heard <BR>many of the same things he's said here -- both from <BR>people who've been to Italy, from travel columns <BR>in the paper, etc. Many people who simply want <BR>to say everything in Europe is wonderful just because <BR>it's European are ignoring and distorting his points. <BR>John said he has been to other countries in Europe <BR>that are not this way, as have I, which contradicts the <BR>idea that every place is exactly the same just because <BR>every country may have poor people and tourists. <BR>It is ignorant to pretend that all cities/governments <BR>do equally effective jobs of crime-control, litter- <BR>control, etc., because they do not. And certain <BR>countries most certainly do have reputations for <BR>more crime than others--Italy, Spain and Mexico, <BR>for example, come to mind. Having just returned <BR>from Austria, he is correct in stating that there are <BR>not many black people in Austria and they are <BR>probably not as used to seeing them there. <BR>This is a very conservative country you know, <BR>with extensive ties to the Nazi party that have <BR>continued up to very current times, I believe. It is <BR>also rather sexist, as the Vienna Philharmonic <BR>has had a policy of not allowing female instrument <BR>players--I believe they just recently changed this, <BR>but I may be wrong and it still is going on. <BR>So, I haven't been to Italy, but he is not the first <BR>person I've heard complain about the crime <BR>in that country, so I suspect there is something <BR>to it.

paul otis

M. Washington is totally right!!!! Especially overated is the impact of the Renaissance...what a load of bunk and Tintoretto?? Horse manure..Never go to Italy...on the other hand Schenectedy, NY!! Theres a place ... fabulous Arby's roast beef to boot. M Washington ..you da man. ( I just pray that people like you are not survivors of the coming thermonuclear Armageddon). <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

John Washington

Obviously rednecks are still alive and well in America. First of all I am not American(Yes, there are other people in this world who can afford to travel besides white Americans). Secondly, I did not prance around in Europe in an oversized shorts, baseball cap, Oakley sunglasses and sneekers. I wore long pants and shirts with dress shoes most of the way, and I drove around in a Mercedes Benz. Thirdly, I have probaly traveled to more county than half of you rednecks knew existed. Throughout Africa, the middle and far East. Fourth, to the idiot who said I was snearing my nose at the Austrian people, why dont you paint yourself black, go over here and see what the experience is like. Fifth, I dont know what Dennys is but I assume its some place where you forefathers enslaved African people. America is a wonderfull county. Except for the few idiots that live there.

Becky

Why do people go to Italy? Gee ... maybe it's the art, the culture, the history, the food!!!! Italy is a beautiful country full of artistic treasures, spectacular, jaw dropping scenery, expressive and <BR>friendly people and gastronomic delights! <BR> <BR>When I was there, I never had a problem with crime (kept my money in a money belt), being stared at (I smiled back - no one bothered me) or the people (I tried speaking just a few Italian phrases and everyone bent over backwards to me). Sure, some parts were dirty and messy but every place you go has those! Even in sunny So Cal. I would go back to Italy in a heartbeat! <BR> <BR>Don't let one bad experience spoil Italy for you. Assisi, Capri, Siena, the Lakes are all wondrous places to visit.

Monica Richards

I would second everything Becky said. I loved Italy, didn't find it dirty at all (well, at least not more than any big city anywhere). Assisi, Sienna, Sorrento, Bellagio--there are just so many beautiful cities there. To be honest, the only place in Italy I didn't like was Florence--too many loud scooters. <BR> <BR>Monica

Joann

John is right about some of his observations and we all know it. Europeans, specially Austrians do have a very snotty attitudes towards some ethnic groups....My Mom used to say that before you judge somebody, walk a mile on their shoes.....BTW, John (above post) is right...Jer's comment is stupid and innapropriate...

norm

Here, here John. <BR> <BR>You are right, there are still red-necks around and I suppose there always will be as long as this country (America) exists. I disgree with the atitudes of those who spoke with obvious prejudice against you, however, I will always support their right to speak out, no matter how much I disagree with them. <BR> <BR>As for the dirt, filth and other descriptions you had given in your oration, well, having not been back to Italy for many years, I surmise things haven't changed that much since I was there! Just wait, If you ever visit New York or other large cities, I'm sure you'll find the same conditions exist in these showplaces of Americana as well as in your country (that you never mentioned). But I'm not here to disagre with you, I think people should be more courteous when making comments to each other. This would be a beginning to cleaning up the FILTH on the internet, wouldn't it? <BR> <BR>Anyway, I hope you enjoy your next trip better, where ever it may be. P.S. I am travelling to Italy, France and Greece with my eldest son in April of next year. I'm sure I will enjoy it while overlooking the shortcomings of people and places. <BR> <BR>to all <BR>have a good vacation <BR> <BR>norm

Hiba

I'm amazed at the responses to John Washington's post. He spoke his opinion & was thus called names and sneered at. Unnecessary. A diversity of opinions is what a forum is all about. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. I just got back from Rome, the Amalfi Coast & London. The Termini station in Rome is indeed filthy, scary & filled with shady characters. The streets of Rome are also filthy &, as all other big cities, full of people both good & bad. The statues and the Spanish steps were covered with soot. Those are facts, by the way, not an opinion. <BR> <BR>Regardless of where I live, I look for a certain standard of cleanliness and beauty when I travel, & I will like or not like a place based on MY criteria. And I don't care how much history they've got, the Romans need to clean up their streets. Milan, which I went to last summer, was also filthy & ugly. Hence, I choose not to visit neither Rome nor Milan again, & that's okay. At least I can say I've seen 'em. Lake Come, Ravello & the rest of the Amalfi coast, on the other hand, were breathtaking. <BR>

R Mugabe

Once again bigotry ignorance raises its ugly head, even in a travel forum. A black man posts his opinion and he is instantly ridiculed, mocked and laughed at. But then, who else is more qualified to do that than some white Americans. They have had a lot of experience. Every other creed or race, blacks, hispanics, chinese, Indians are inferior or stupid when compared to them. Hey John, I bet you anything that idiots like Jer and and Steph would never next to you at the only available dinner table at any hotel. Artsy, cultured worldly traveler moronic types like these think they know everything. Little do they know that when you are at the Vienna train station and young Austrians see you and start shouting " Foreigners Out" in German, they mean people like you. Morons like Jer and Steph would probaly think that its the local kids going out to a rock concert or something like that. <BR> I have to agree with John. Not long ago an American family had their young son shot while traveling in Italy. But I guess some of you suffer from short term memory loss to remember that. How stupid of this family to try and escape in their car when Italian bandits tried to stop them. I guess they should have realized how marginalized and underpriviledged these bandits were and handed their money over. Hey Paul Rabe,you smart person, you, next time a young black kid pushes a gun in your face in good old downtown USA and demand your wallet, remember to hand it over with a smile, remembering that he is from a marginalized and underpriviledge section of your society. <BR>John said only good things about Switzerland, Germany, and of course the very civilized British. But its amazing how the bigots were readily able to zero in on his negative experience in Italy and Austria. <BR>As for Paul Otis attempt at being humourous, Paul, if you need a laugh look no furthur than your local presidency.

madeline

I'd just like to say that I appreciate the opinions and observations of the travelers that post here. Sometimes it is more important to hear the negative perceptions than the positive because that's ALL you get from the glossy travel magazines. This is a place for real people to post their real experiences. So I hope that the reaction that Mr. Washington's comments elicited does not keep people from sharing the bad as well as the good. If I were planning a trip to Italy, I might want to do some more information gathering/talk to other travelers whose opinions I respect based on his comments. And being reminded that there is crime and filth elsewhere wouldn't necessarily allay my concerns.

Luca Bracci

J Washington, <BR> <BR>Italy is bad, never go back again. As for the rest of the world, come back to italia anytime!! <BR>Obvious J Washington had his head up his ASS! <BR> <BR>J Washington, next time don't carry 3-4 cameras around your neck and leave the plaid bermuda shorts and Hawaiian shirts at home, and close the map every now and then OK!!

John C.

Like many of you, I've traveled extensively throughout Italy on several occasions, and didn't find Italy as dirty or dangerous as J. Washington. Sure, some parts are cleaner or safer than others; it's like that everywhere. However, I found that the great food, art and fashion outweighed any of the negatives I may have encountered. That's more than I can say about most other European countries I've been to.