Why can't Americans say "Good morning"

Didn't your parents teach you not to talk to strangers?

I say it (in whatever language happens to be the main tongue of the country I'm in)... maybe you're just meeting the wrong Americans? There are a lot of us, and as evidenced by our last couple of presidential elections, we're pretty diverse.

Huh? And I always thought one said "Good Morning" at lunch!

So, may be Nicolas is on the left on this one?

There is a TV show called Good Morning America, that does it for everybody.

maybe (just maybe) it was because you were the same friendly/cheery self you are when posting here. Just a guess

LOL, janis

Nonsense !
I find American friendlier and open to contact with total strangers ( o.k. , except for a few New Yorkers) than almost any other nationality.

janisj, that can't be, I'm the most gentile and friendly person IRL .

I agree that alot of Americans can come off as rude sometimes. But that's mostly in the big cities like Los Angeles/New York. I live in L.A where it seems like everyone is suspicious of everyone. But people in the mid-west (I lived in rural MN for sometime)or from smaller towns are completely different. They are just as nice as can be.

It's simply because you continue to refuse to dress so you properly "fit in!"

Actually, when entering the US (NY) from Canada I wa asked about the arab visas in my passport.
"Which countries and why did you go there?"....
Where do they find those immigration guys.

I was dressed all and 100% genuine Walmart.
That can't be it!

I am always taken aback when I go to Germany and everybody always says good morning to everybody in the room when they come into the breakfast room and then they say goodbye to everybody when they leave.

While I think that Americans are mostly friendly, I don't ever recall walking into a breakfast room at a hotel and having everybody say good morning to me. I think people will say good morning if you approach them or have eye contact, but not just a broad "good morning".

I don't remember ever not returning a greeting in the US or any other country. Course, down here in Texas you might just hear "mornin". We tend to shorten some words.

janisj, we should have drink sometime......

One of the 1st things that I had to learn in Germany was to say "Mahlzeit" when entering a restaurant. It is not the custom of any place that I have lived in America. Likewise, I had to learn to say Auf Widersehen to everyone on departure.

Our daughter was born in Germany and as a baby learned those customs first. We were visiting Regensburg and went for lunch at the Ratskellar. Part of the way through our meal, an elderly couple started to leave without the usual "Auf Widersehen". Our two year old called "Bye Bye" to them as they reached the door. The elderly man turned and crossed the room. He took off his hat and bowed to our daughter and said "Bye Bye". He did it with quiet dignity. Our daughter nodded her head and said bye again. Unfortunately she quickly forgot this pleasant custom once she returned to the states.

Regards, Gary

Logos - GOOD MORNING!!! Could be a number of things going on here:

I wore my brand new Walmart outfit today and no one said "good morning" to me either. Guess there's a clue here! Although one person commented on my earings but they were not from Walmart.

One must respect the customs of the country. Saying good morning is a regional thing in the US. I notice when I walk in the mornings that most people I pass do not say good morning. There's not many people walking so I can't attribute this to folks becoming exhausted with too many good morning greetings. I usually say it first and many people looked surprised. I was brought up never to speak to strangers and had to unlearn that behavior.

You probably shocked people by saying good morning in an area where it's not normally said. Did you check to see if they were on their second cup of coffee?

One more thing - why do you care so much about saying good morning to people you'll never see again. Why does this anger you? Does it really matter?

And what does IRL mean?

When using a breakfast room at a US motel, like a Holiday Inn, it's been my experience that you're right, people don't offer a "Good morning." They get their food (if I must call it that) and take it to their own tables.

But when staying in US B&B's, where we are all seated at a communal breakfast table, we DO strike up conversations.

I don't recall this being any different during travels to UK and European countries, however. So I don't think it's an "American" thing, I think it's situational.

>saying good morning to people you'll never see again
It's civilized...(as Nicolas pointed out today). Why shouldn't they have a good morning.
IRL = In real life

adrienne

That is exactly my experience when walking in the morning: I say "good morning" and many people look surprised. Most answer, but some don't.

I have never walked in a hotel/motel breakfast room in the US where strangers greeted one another in the morning. I might say good morning, but I am very kind and friendly.

I've been going to France for many years and always aware that they say good morning. I do too here in my part of the world. I usually get a smile.

Ny'er here.

It is just so tiring to say good morning 8 millions times day after day. You should have been in the 1790's when it worked.

NY'ers have their own body language and unwritten rules. And almost every cannot stand the superficial "Have a Nice Day' Stuff.

But it is the rare NY'er who will not stop if asked for help or directions.

I think I first learned how to say good morning to strangers in France. It seems an ordinary thing to do there but extraordinary in the US. I also now greet shopkeepers and store cashiers, etc. whereas I didn't used to do this before traveling. It makes for a nicer world.

I was once worked with someone from New Orleans and she used to comment how people "in the north" didn't say good morning when they passed each other in the halls (in the office).

logos - do you have the link to the Sakozy article?

In Italy, a greeting is not only mandatory in the morning, but all day long and into the night. As is goodbye.

However, when I greeted people in Switzerland, they just stared at me as if I were propositioning them or something equally unrespectable.

In New York, it's noisy enough, thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VviIcKP4e44

I from L.A. area(Pasadena) and we might not always say good morning...a bit formal sounding to me...I prefer, "Hi", BUT we speak to each other and greet each other on the street and give people eye contact which is very unlike it is in most parts of Europe that I've been traveling to for over 3 decades.
My European friends have visited me here and noticed how people greet each other on the street and they...the European friends... have asked me many times if I knew the person who greeted me or whom I greeted and I've said that I didn't. They thought it strange. I find it QUITE normal.
So, as far as I'm concerned not saying good morning is not anymore rude than people not giving each other contact on the street or greeting a passerbyer. It's just different strokes for different folks depending on where one comes from. Happy Travels!

We just returned from a weekend in Chicago and I was totally put off by folks that did not return a "good morning" greeting in the elevator of the hotel. Just a small thing, but truly, if someone is smiling, looking you in the eye, and offering a salutation, then it is good manners to return the greeting. Even if it is only a smile.

So far I've never experienced my "Guten Morgen" not being returend by a "Grüezi" in Switzland. I'm sure that would be totally impossible!

"Good morning" is usually an oxymoron.

Course, down here in Texas you might just hear "mornin". We tend to shorten some words.

scatcat- or more likely, just a "Howdy!"

We just returned from a weekend in Chicago and I was totally put off by folks that did not return a "good morning" greeting in the elevator of the hotel.

paris1953- they were probably out-of-town visitors, like yourself. Native Chicagoans are some of the friendliest people I know. And I know- 'cause I'm one of them!

Sarge56, I didn't mean to point a finger at Chicagoans. You are right that the people in the hotel were visitors, like us, but they were Americans and I was a little chagrinned that they were so unfriendly.

On the other hand, there were quite a few friendly Europeans also in Chicago...we saw them on the street, at cafes, and also on the boat tour and they were always happy to chat.

I am going to Paris next week so I working on my sing song Bon jour Madame.

Mornings s**k! I have no interest in talking to people until, at the earliest, 10 AM.

But the reason is that you were in New England. New Englanders really value privacy. A simple nod would have gone over better. If you want good mornings and other niceties, you need to go to the rural south.

What an ignorant post.

Guete Morgä Logos!

Living in the country in Switzerland, you definitely greet strangers as they walk by. In restaurants, you say "Guete Morge" to people as you pass by. One hardy "Guete Morge" is usually sufficient for a large group of people.

When country Swiss walk by another Swiss and is not greeted (or a greeting hasn't been returned), the country Swiss will most definitely say, "Ach, Zürcher." (He's from Zürich.) The country Swiss is frustrated that city Swiss are losing their "manners."

Logos, you big tease. You know that Motel 6 guests do not say good morning to each other. But it does show another cultural difference between Europe and the US.

I've been to several countries and throughout the U.S. I've learned that if you don't give eye contact and perhaps even a friendly smile, why should anyone say good morning to you? It goes both ways. And your OP is so vague that it's quite unfair... Which cities were you staying in? What parts of those cities were you staying in? Also, unlike other countries, Americans like their personal space. Did you happen to walk up and join their table for breakfast, then say good morning? If so, they probably assumed you were a freak and gave you the cold shoulder for that reason alone. In America, we do not fill each space even if there's a line out the door. And in reference to your "Nowhere else I've found people to behave that strange" comment - please keep in mind that the US is made up of people from everywhere else. So when you're slamming the Americans, remember that they have roots that can be traced back to your country as well... Perhaps the strangeness started there?
"People are strange when you're a stranger" The Doors

Someone insulted the US! Grab the spears! Attack!!!!!!

(And for those of you who took Logos inquiry as a cultural difference between the US and Europe and nothing more.... good for you! A+)

Since living in the Netherlands we too say good morning when entering a room (or a shop) or good afternoon if that is more appropriate - and the Dutch know instinctively when it is midday believe me.

In the US in May we did the same thing. Some people looked surprised but many answered us, and a few even started up a conversation with us. We were staying in chain motels for the most part.

I always greet people on the street, whether I know them or not - again it would be rude not to here. We did it in the US too - even in places like Santa Fe and ABQ and got a good number of greetings back. We've done it in Pasadena, where our greeting was often returned. I would not try it in LA or New York any more than I would in most of Amsterdam or Rotterdam.

I find the Americans very open and friendly on the whole. Maybe you just took them by surprise Logos. You don't say where you were - which could make a difference.

Oh and in the UK many people would regard you with suspicion too if you were to greet them at breakfast, certainly in the bigger hotels.

If you don't like saying Good Morning, do the following,

Make eye contact, slight nod of your head and say 'G'day mate!'

That'll do!

s

What an ignorant post.

Hope that wasn't directed at me.

As someone who grew up largely in New England, and who lived in the South and who's family heritage is as Southern as you can get, I would say I am on the money. There is really nothing earth-shattering about saying New Englanders are more stand-offish than Southerners. Both sides pretty much take it as a compliment.

And, frankly, I don't think there is that much more than habit compelling the "good mornings" in much of Europe. In my office, everyone says good morning as they pass my desk. That is usually the last conversation we have that day. I can see why many Americans don't bother with the ritual.

Oh and in the UK many people would regard you with suspicion too if you were to greet them at breakfast, certainly in the bigger hotels.


I don't agree with that.
I don't say a general "good morning" unless it's a small hotel, but I would certainly greet someone at the cereals bar or if they were sitting at the next table.

>Americans will not answer the "Good morning" when addressed at breakfast. <

You talkin' ta me?

Huh? Wha? I ain't had my coffee yet.

What's he want?

Do I know you?

Mornin'

Ah, there you go with the sweeping generalizations again. Here in the U.S. Virgin Islands, it's considered extremely rude NOT to say Good Morning, Good Afternoon or oddly, Good Night as a greeting when entering any establishment, even to the waiting room in general in doctor's offices, etc.

You mean, Americans don't every day like this?!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA3OnIYW5u4

There can be all sorts of variations from country to country, and within countries. Saying "Good morning" to complete strangers in London may get no very welcome response, if any at all (as well as being tiring, since most of us are strangers to each other); but in the countryside, I believe you'd be regarded with great suspicion if you don't.

And I'm sure I heard of someone who visited Austria and was woken up by a strange shushing noise from outside, only to find the builders on the site next door saying "Danke schön" and "Bitte schön" as each individual brick was passed from hand to hand.

I have never understood why, when a shop clerk in France says "bonjour" - literally, 'good day" and by inference, 'have a good day' - it is deemed the hallmark of a superior civilization, but if the same is said in English by a shop clerk outside of Europe - sometimes with the 'good' substituted with 'nice' - it is deemed superficial.

I also don't understand why all TV technicians in France must be American by nationality. Strange labour practices they have in that place...

PatrickLondon, your remark about the bricklayers inspired me to realize that, but of course, the er, polite demeanour of Parisien drivers as they go through intersections is totally explicable - they're, er, simply eager to wish the traffic cop 'good morning'........

Interesting comment, logos999. I am a "greeting" person, "good morning" or "good afternoon" come naturally to me--and I am an American. Most people I meet respond in kind.

Maybe you're weird-looking or something? Spiked hair; nose rings; forehead tattoo? That sort of thing could make people hesitant to reply.

Or maybe it has to do with the types of accomodations you use? Certain subsections of society might be more or less likely to respond.

Schuler is right on target when saying this is simply a cultural difference. When staying in small hotels or pensions in Germany, Austria or Switzerland, I consciously make sure I say "Guten Morgen" or "Mahlzeit" like everyone else upon entering the breakfast room. I wouldn't normally announce a greeting to the entire room, but I will if that's the local custom...after all, I'm a guest there.

In the US it can be a variety of factors: hesitation to "intrude" on the space of strangers, natural reserve (travelgourmet's New Englanders), or big city impersonality.

But I find Logos' (sweeping) condemnation of "all" Americans rather rude in itself....to assume that a difference is "bad" or "rude" rather than just "different."

Big country, lots of customs. Big world, lots of customs. Some people talk about how impolite the French are, but I find instead that there are more layers of courtesy attached to everyday encounters than I am used to at home in New England or in New York, where I grew up. We are unfamiliar with these customs and they find us impolite; we think the same of them. None of us are less friendly than the others; we just come from places where we express our warmth differently.

It takes a good deal of willpower for me to overcome my natural hesitancy to say "Bonjour Madame" to a total stranger, much less to everyone in the shop. It feels too formal, first of all, and somehow inappropriate. But people who grew up doing this find it perfectly natural.

If one addressed me in the breakfast room at a hotel I would respond in kind, but it would be a bit unexpected and I might not respond quickly with the automatic greeting that would be expected in a place where that behavior was the norm.

On the other hand it doesn't seem at all odd to me to start up conversations with people in shops or restaurants or even on the street when I see or hear something to comment on. Without the formal greeting in front of it, however.

I remember being surprised that in Europe I was constantly being told by people in shops or food stands to have a bonne journee or a buona giornatta. Mostly this surprised me because I had heard people make fun of Americans for saying "Have a nice day". Don't really see the difference here.

I feel that it is an intrusion on "my space" to have to say Good Morning to strangers while I am eating breakfast. When in another country I will follow their customs but don't expect me to respond here at home.

Americans will get a lot friendlier in the morning when all hotels have coffee makers and restaurants and cafes institute the universal bottomless cup of coffee.

If Americans knew how to say, "Don't talk to me until I've had my second pot of coffee." in the local language, they would

Well Logos999:

Since you've obviously met every American on the planet and have determined that we ALL don't say "Good Morning", I'll say it for them...Good Morning. And that's from every American on the planet!

Print this out, take it with you everywhere you go and if you come across an American that doesn't say hello or good morning back to you, just take out this clip, read it and hopefully that will suffice.

Inverse question. Should I greet every new arrival to the breakfast room? Is it not rude to interrupt a stranger's breakfast or conversation? "Will Not Repliers' don't want to waste time or get involved in time consuming non-sensical chatter. Americans are regarded as non-cultured by some Europeans. Tourists and casual visitors have time to kill...chances are that the non-repliers are business people with tight schedules. I have been to business meetings and breakfast is always awash with greetings and replies. Try getting a reply at any McDonald's.

I'm originally from the midwestern US where we wave and smile and say good morning to strangers. Currently I live in Belgium where casual greetings on the street seem to be non-existant. I love to flash a huge smile at people as I walk by and see their reactions-1 out of 10 times it's a smile back, while the rest look quickly down or give me a very strange look.

Are you saying in Logos999 world, you walk into a breakfast room no matter how many people are there and make a general good morning announcement and everybody looks up and responds?

"you walk into a breakfast room no matter how many people are there and make a general good morning announcement and everybody looks up and responds?"

No one has to respond but a few will. It's part of the German, Swiss, Austrian, etc. culture.

vjplovesitaly wrote: "Are you saying in Logos999 world, you walk into a breakfast room no matter how many people are there and make a general good morning announcement and everybody looks up and responds?"

I was in that world not so long ago. The only people in the breakfast room who were regular denizens of Bavaria were the staff. They were indeed liberal with their morning greetings (with smiles). It was nice to experience.

It's just the common thing to do and maybe some start a conversation after that.

And yes, I feel I've met every American. At lest I've been to every state in the continental US, except for Rhode Island. .
Ira sums up what happens rather perfectly.

logos--I think you fail to realize how varied the customs can be in the US--it is large enough that from one part of the country to another, you will find a difference in the people---the Midwesterner is different from the Northeasterner; those from the West are different from the South. People behave according to the norms in the part of the US in which they were raised or live...(as a native Texan who was transplanted to Eastcoast Florida, I experienced culture shock. Texans were much more friendly and personable, whereas Floridians were not...I am used to Florida now, but it took awhile.)

This is one of those "can't win for losing" threads.

I'm sure if everyone HAD greeted Logos with a big good morning and he'd reported it, there'd be numerous posts about phony friendliness in the U.S. and how Americans are viewed as loony or suspect for smiling all the time and that it's the more "honest" Europeans who save their smiles for people they actually know.

And FWIW, I've been to breakfast at many hotels in Germany where the Germans have NOT gone around and greeted everyone when they entered.

And Schuler, you get an F. Logos didn't just say it was different, he wasn't just posting an "inquiry", he said it was RUDE, that it got him "mad". Unless you also believe that it's equally acceptable for Americans to get "mad" about "rude" cultural differences in Europe.

And travelgourmet is right. It's ridiculous to assume that there are no regional differences in the U.S. New Englanders generally are known (and respected) for their reserve, while Southerners and Midwesterners generally are known (and liked) for their friendliness.

When I visited Mom in central Florida, we got big friendly greetings from everyone almost everywhere we met.

And finally, I do find it amusing when people say how much it bugs them the way Americans say "have a nice day" but then gush about the French and their "bonne journee" phrase.

Yes, I remeber many Texans not behaving that strange, and the were far better drivers in the south in general. In New England driving was a nighmare. They're going ultra slow, but it isn't worth passing, because you're stuck behind the next car after a few seconds.

Hetismij...I found your comment a bit strange when you said that basically you wouldn't try greeting people on the streets in L.A. although you've done it in Pasadena and people greet back.
First of all, when we say L.A., we're basically referring to the whole county which is 500 square miles (800 square meters) big. Now, there are some differences depending on where one is in the county. However, I've been here since the mid 60s and I don't care where I've been in the county,it's not unusual to give or receive eye contact and a greeting on the street. It's just one of those things I've always been used to experiencing.
Before movong to L.A. county in the 60s, we lived an hour north of Santa Barbara and the same was very common there.
The first time I went to Europe, Denmark for the whole summer living with a Danish family, I was 17, (I'm early 50s now) and when I came back and my parents asked me about some cultural differences, the first thing I said was that it was very strange and isolating to me that there was nearly no eye contact on the street and people hardly ever greeted or chatted with strangers on the street. The only people who would talk to me on the street were elderly people which was great.If I sat down on a bus bench, they would chat. I just chalked it up to cultural differences not rudeness. Happy Travels!

Why is everybody so defensive? Here, we're in OUR country, so we do what's comfortable and normal for US. Sorry if that makes Loco999 'mad'.

I all other parts of the world it's called "polite" to answer when addressed. It's as simple as that.

I agree Travelnut. We are in OUR country and not saying good morning is no big deal. I absolutely don't get offended if people don't say good morning to me as I don't say it a lot myself. But, I'm very big on other greetings, acknowledging people's presence in the public, saying "hi", and always saying, "Have a nice day and giving a smile". Happy Travels!

So you actually walk up to the table and give the greeting? I was thinking it was a general greeting upon entering.

Yep, and usually in Germany, France, Italy, England, Scotland, CZ, Switzerland, Australia, Singapore... people answer. Same thing when you leave your room in the morning and see someone. Or in the Elevator.

Let me make sure I have the rules straight for Americans (as noted on Fodor's).

We should say "good morning" upon encountering others at the same accommodation. But we shouldn't politely greet people on the street, nor should we smile for no good reason.

I think I'm going to need to take notes on this stuff. It's harder than I thought.

Based on the tone of your previous posts about the U.S., I suspect the Americans were caught off guard because they weren't sure who was talking to them: You or that giant chip on your shoulder.
Subconsciously, they probably figured it was the chip talking and nothing they could say would meet with your approval anyway.

I grew up in a smallish town in England, and people certainly didn't greet strangers on the street. Out hiking, yes - round town, no. Now I live in the US, and go everywhere by car, lol, so that issue doesn't arise.

In Europe, I try to remember to say a general "Good Morning" in the appropriate language when entering a breakfast room - provided I'm staying in a small place. In the US I would greet people at breakfast in a B&B, but not in a hotel.

Bonjour! It is not customary to greet an entire restaurant full of people with a mass "Good Morning." in the US, unless perhaps you are with a touring group. It depends on the situation. Individual greetings are more common. It is common in the workplace as you are entering a meeting or passing people. Have to say though. I did not witness this in hotels in Europe. Please don't take it personally. It just is not the same custom that you are familiar with!

New Yorkers don't say "Good morniing" to everyone they meet because:

There are about 10,000 people living on my block

There are well over a hundred on the subway car I ride to work (if I cab it I say Good Morning to the driver)

My office is in a building 32 stories high with many thousands of employees

If I said Good Mornng to all those people - I'd still be saying it when I went to bed.

Life has to adapt to circumstances.

I say Good Morning if a meet a fellow tenant in the apartment elevator, and to the person I buy my coffee from, and to the receptionist at the office. Otherwise - it's every man for himself.

And that's not rude or impolite - just a numerical fact of life.

"people answer. Same thing when you leave your room in the morning and see someone. Or in the Elevator."

That's a pretty vast generalization, not unlike, for example, saying that all French people are rude. People are different. Most of us probably are polite and do smile or acknowledge someone in an elevator, but not always. I work with people who barely muster up a smile, let alone a good morning, when I pass them in the break room. I'm personally not a morning person, so most of the time I run into the elevator and hit the "close" button right away so I won't have to ride up with someone I don't know.

I think it definitely depends on where you are at and what you are doing. I grew up in a small town in Southern Illinois and we are the type to carry on a long conversation with someone we met in line at a grocery store. But not everyone is like that, and to assume that is kind of silly. And
I would never walk into a room and announce a big "good morning" to a bunch of people sitting there eating. I say it when I pass someone on a trail or a neighbor as I'm walking my dog, but otherwise it's just not that common around here.

Tracy

Typing correction...800 square kilometers...not meters...to my above post. I was typing too fast. Smiles. Happy Travels!

I am getting such a kick out of this thread. I am wondering what the reaction would be if I called out "Good Morning" to everyone at our local cafe. Lots of started looks I think. Of course a greeting is exchanged between the server and the customer. And very seldom do people greet each other when passing each other on the sidewalk, in the parking lot etc. Once in awhile a pleasant smile but that is about it.

Nytraveler, your post gave me a good chuckle. I don't think you would even have time to go to bed, lol!

nytraveler,

Mamy of your points make sense.

However...

What if you go to a cafe you normally don't visit and it's just you and the coffee guy - Isn't a "good morning" in order before saying what you want?

What if you get on an elevator with only one person on it (and neither of you are plugged into an Ipod or reading a book - Wouldn't "good morning" be appropriate?

As PatrickLondon noted, it IS situational, but when the circumstances lend themselves to acknowledge others, it's nice to occasionally break the habit of ignoring strangers and to make the effort.

and to logos999,
Especially since not everyone makes the initial greeting, it is indeed rude to ignore the occasional one who does say "good morning".

BTilke has it right:

"And finally, I do find it amusing when people say how much it bugs them the way Americans say "have a nice day" but then gush about the French and their "bonne journee" phrase."

I SO agree!!! Geesh.

Shadow

Bardo, I would almost never say hello to someone in an elevator, even if there was only one person, unless I knew that person. It just isn't commonly done where I live. And I don't particularly think I say good morning to the cashier at a coffee shop. I don't normally give any formal greeting before asking for something in any kind of shop. I have learned it is expected in Europe, but it is not expected where I live and it is not considered rude or impolite to omit a formal greeting.

logos~~ I'm not following...

You said "good morning" to who? Your waitress? Another customer? Who exactly are you talking to?

I am American & if someone said Good Morning to me, I would say Good Morning in return.

I think he walks up to each and every table and says "good morning"

actually, in NYC, it's perfectly normal for customers and wait staff to not exchange greetings or pleasantries in the morning. Just the utilitarian necessities.

I would give anything not to be called "guys" all the time in NYC by people working in stores and restaurants. Sooner the silence.

logos999, I've been to your country several times in the past 5 years (3 times in the past 12 months) and I have found that in general when I greet people I encounter on the street, they do not return the greeting. This is not on busy city streets in Berlin, but when I'm in a smaller place or a quiet street and passing a lone person - where it's almost impossible to avoid eye contact. Yet they make eye contact and ignore my smile and greeting.

On the other hand, in Austria, we found "Grüß Gott" everywhere!

Nikki, Stavanger ? I'm Norwegian, we don't greet strangers at breakfast table, lunch, supper, whenever- But we often say hei (hi) to the bus driver, to the bank accountant, to anyone when you 'want' any kind of service, or give service. But do no try to smile at a stranger at the bus ! It is accepted if you exchange words with the person beside you though-

>Who exactly are you talking to?
At the hotel/motel, in the morning, for breakfast, or in the elevator. People within your "range".

When you walk by someone having breakfast you say "Good Morning".

Just a simple and civillized thing to do. And it's done everywhere I've been to on the planet, except...

This is bizarre. I have never had that happen to me anywhere in the world, so it most certainly does NOT happen everywhere on the planet. I've eaten breakfast in cafes, restaurants and hotel dining rooms in many countries and I don't recall once everybody in the place saying "good morning" to me when they walked by my table, when they didn't know me. I have been in Germany, and don't recall that happening there, but cannot sweat to that, but I know it has not happened to me in other European countries, Canada, Mexico, etc.

I will say hi to someone in the elevator if we are alone and do say hi to people I pass in my neighborhood, and good morning to whoever on duty where I'm a regular shopper.

And it's done everywhere I've been to on the planet, except...

Oh please. This is hyperbole, even for you.

I barely get more than a nod from the waiter in Copenhagen. Nobody said hello to me when they passed me on the street in Berlin a month ago. Nobody said hello to me when I was eating breakfast at my hotel in Singapore a couple of weeks ago. I didn't even get a nod from the fellow passengers in the elevator at my hotel in London. Walking the streets in Hong Kong is a competitive sport, not a bunch of people nodding and greeting as they go past. Even in Thailand, as friendly of a place as you will find, not a single fellow guest at our hotel said a word to me, nor did I see them say a word to any other guest that wasn't in their party.

If you think it is done everywhere other than in the US, then you really need to get out more.

Good Morning!

Au contraire, TG. I all those places the greeting is common at breakfast.

Oh for goodness sakes, the premise is absolutely ridiculous!! People everywhere in the world except the US most certainly do NOT go around saying "good morning" to strangers. Sure I would answer someone who was "in my range"... but no I would not *interrupt* someone trying to have their breakfast in peace. US or elsewhere they probably just think you're nuts.

Au contraire, TG. I all those places the greeting is common at breakfast.

Yet, somehow I seem to have missed it. Imagine that. It must have happened really fast. Because it sure isn't my memory failing me, as I have been to (and eaten breakfast in) all of those places (save Hong Kong) within the past 4-6 weeks.

I know you have found yourself in a hole with your completely unsubstantiated (indeed, widely dismissed) claims of universality, but no reason to keep digging.

I can picture John Cleese at Faulty Towers doing it!

Has Christina been to Italy? I expect to be greeted by strangers living there.

Sure, people are talking in generalizations, but the different transactions in public behavior are striking as you move from country to country.

Does anyone but the British say "cheers" --? (And sometimes I can't figure out why.)

rjsol, I live in the US.

I find this bizarre too. I would never even think to interrupt someone holding a conversation and eating their breakfast simply to say good morning. It just seems rude and annoying. I certainly wouldn't want someone to do that to me when I'm trying to eat. I have traveled a lot and never experienced this anywhere.

Tracy

TG, I was just thinking about the reasons some americans are considered rude when travelling abroad. This "ignoring the world around them", might be one.

I greet at breakfast and I'm greeted back, except for those places I stayed in the USA.

tcreath...I agree with you. And travelgourmet, I really agree with you,too as I've spent entire summers,in KBH, almost annually from the early 70s to the early 90s...and then a few trips in the 2000s. I remember that in KBH those who would say good morning to me were friends who lived at the same kollegium that I lived in. But, as far as folks in the public, folks rarely acknowledged each other. I'm also in Bangkok twice a year...for the past 10 years...and very few say good morning at my serviced apartment building except the programmed staff..not the guests...and they're from all over the world. The same goes for Singapore where I've been going for over a decade. Happy Travels!

i think tcreath just answered logos999's questions.

In Italy, "good morning" is quite common between strangers, as is "good evening," but of course if you stay in a hotel, most of the non-Italian tourists don't greet each other.

It reminds me of those discussions in NYC about "why are Koreans storeowners so rude? They never smile!" Like tcreath, they think that would be rude.

TG, I was just thinking about the reasons some americans are considered rude when travelling abroad. This "ignoring the world around them", might be one.

And perhaps the reason some Germans are considered pompous blowhards is because they play fast and loose with the facts, even when those "exaggerations" are called out for being ridiculous?

yes, i thought our problem was we kept trying to run the world (as of late).

Oh I would hate that aggressive "politeness" and I'm not an American.

I have not seen the word "troll" on this board recently but this is one troll posting by OP, isn't it? Ridiculous but somewhat funny thread.

Not interrupting or replying to strangers who interrupt a meal in a restaurant is most certainly not "ignoring the world around them" ... and even if it were ... SO WHAT?

I have only traveled in Europe five trips so far, but cannot recall a single instance that someone said "Good morning" to me while I was eating breakfast in a restaurant or hotel (Amsterdam, Paris, Venice, Geneva, etc.)

Greeted by strangers in Italy? Who knew, lol. Yes the housekeeper will say "buongiorno" if you pass her in the hallway and the hotel desk clerk will and the server will at the cafe and the clerk at a shop etc., all commercial interactions so to speak..but with all the time I have spent in Italy I don't ever remember any stranger saying "buongiorno" to others in a cafe or passing each other on the street etc. Now when with my Italian friends in small towns in Italy yes Italians that know each other pass on a greeting and sometimes stand and hold a conversation..but strangers in a noncommercial setting or customers in a cafe. Not that I have ever observed.

Loveitaly,

Good grief! Come to Liguria. I can't get halfway up or down the public staircase or anywhere in the morning without "giorno"'s from everybody, or home at night without "sera"'s -- although "salve" is getting to be just as common.

... and it case it wasn't obvious, I don't know these people.

But Italy is not just one place.

everyone's reality is different.
I find everyone greets us in Provence; some say helo and some just nod when we arrive at our favorite local cafe. Strangers have said goodby when passig our table at a restaurant and passing by on a path. That's why I love Provence and made so many friends there.

"But Italy is not just one place."

How many places is it?

Hmmm...I've never experienced this in Italy either. I did get "buon giornos" from the receptionist as we walked through the hotel lobby or from a waiter at a cafe when he/she asked what we wanted to drink, but otherwise I don't recall anyone ever coming up to me in the middle of my breakfast simply to say good morning. I would find that really strange.

I take that back...I do remember walking though a park in Rome on the way back to our hotel one day and a gentleman greeted us as he walked by.

I don't really find it too weird that people greet each other in passing. It's the whole stopping someone in the middle of their meal to say good morning that has be baffled.

Tracy

I thought it was civilized for one to respect the customs of the country they are visiting. In the U.S. respect for another's space and privacy is often considered civilized.

I have been all over Italy except for south of Bari..and I don't ever remember anyone walking into a cafe and saying buongiorno. I am talking about customers. And as far as people in the streets, yes perhaps in a very little town there would be a greeting but not something one would expect in most of Italy. Not at all.

Anyway, logos will just have to understand when he comes to the states each and every area has different customs just as various European countries and areas within each European country does and he will have to adjust to the custom of whereever he is visiting imo. Isn't that what travelling is all about anyway?

"How many places is [Italy]?"

Are you familiar with the term "campanillismo"?

"Capanilismo in Italian signifies absolute love and allegiance to one's own "campanille" (bell tower), to one's own "quartiere," one's own city, one's own region. Italians, as Luigi Barzini noted in his famous book, "The Italians," do not have a deep concept of national unity. A Venetian feels different from an Abruzzese, a Lombard feels very different from a Sicilian.

"Within Tuscany, a Florentine feels very different from a Pisano, to the point that they have the proverb " È meglio un morto in casa che un pisano alla porta." (It is better to have a dead person in the house than a Pisano at the door.)

The town of Siena is still divided in seventeen "contrade," districts that were delineated in the Middle Ages, and still remain as such. The districts have fanciful names, such as "aquila" (eagle), "bruco" (caterpillar), "chiocciola" (snail), "civetta" (owl), "drago" (dragon), "giraffa" (giraffe), "istrice" (hedgehog), "leocorno" (unicorn), "lupa" (she-wolf), and so on. The "contrade" feel fierce rivalry against one another, and every year they compete in the colorful horse race called "Il Palio." Each "contrada" proclaim its superiority. Even nowadays the people of Siena do not think it is a good idea to marry outside one's own "contrada."

"To explain "campanillismo," one must remember that Italy, in spite of her ancient and illustrious past, is a very young country. In fact, as a political entity, Italy was born in 1860. The Veneto region was annexed only in 1866, and Roma became the capital only in 1870.

"At the beginning of the nineteenth century, the Austrian prince Matternich uttered the famous (or infamous) sentence: "Italy is only a geographical expression." Italy, for many centuries, in fact, had been divided in many states of different size and importance, many of which were under foreign domination.

"This period of Italian history is called Risorgimento, that is, resurrection, the resurrection of national consciousness after a long slumber. The Italian national anthem, composed by young patriot Goffredo Mameli, begins stating that Italians are finally brothers, and that Italy is finally awake: "Fratelli d'Italia, l'Italia s'è desta."

"Cavour, the great Italian politician, commented, after the proclamation of the kingdom of Italy: "L'Italia è fatta, ora bisogna fare gli italiani." (Italy has been made, now we must make the Italians.) It was not an easy task to unify the people in a country so rich of regional differences and with populations of diverse ethnic origins. But we are getting there. Roma was not made in a day!"

Thank you for your explanation. I had no idea what you meant.

What about good bye. Clearly more important than Good Morning.

And what about Good Afternoon and Good Eveing? Often you do not meet someone until later in the day.

What about people who sleep late or work nights, what do they say when they meet someone? I'd wish you Good Morning but it is dark already.

"And what about Good Afternoon and Good Eveing? Often you do not meet someone until later in the day."

I've been wondering that myself while reading this funny thread. I think saying good day would be optimal because then you are wishing the entire day to be good. Saying good morning expires at noon.

I noticed when I first worked in an office environment that certain people would say good morning to people they saw in the a.m. but ignore people they saw for the first time in the afternoon. This led me to believe that the good morning crowd are a bunch of fake losers for the most part.

Funny is that after 100+ answers, almost none are on the subject.

Americans will not answer the "Good morning" when addressed at breakfast.

Ira summed up the usual answers you get in the US.

You're kidding, right? Quite a few people told you they answer good morning if they are addressed, including Ira, after some preliminaries.

logos999~ You're not listening!! I *would* reply if someone speaks to me. Always. I just would think it a bit odd that they interruped my breakfast to do so.

You're kidding, right? Quite a few people told you they answer good morning if they are addressed, including Ira, after some preliminaries.

logos never let's silly little things like facts get in the way of his assertions.

In Italy, "Arrivederci! Buona giornata!" is very much expected when you depart, and in the late afternoons, you say "Buona sera" (good evening) or just "Sera!" when you arrive anywhere or to those you pass. (And "Arrivederci! Buona sera" when you leave.)

"Buona notte" is very final, and a bit personal, and one usually only says it to those about to retire, at least, for bed.

Italians are very fond of all kinds of expressions that say "good luck" "travel safely" "we'll see each other soon" "greetings to your husband" etc. They're very gregarious that way.

In my town in eastern Washington, people usually greet each other when passing on the street. This doesn't happen when one is in a busy area downtown, but when I'm on the walking trail or just walking down a suburban sidewalk alone or in a pair and I meet someone, we almost always greet each other.

It's also quite common for people waiting in line, for instance, to begin chatting. A friend from East Germany who'd been in Oregon for several years told us about people waiting in line at the bank. His sister had come from Germany was with him and was puzzled because he and the other people were all chatting with each other. His sister finally asked him, "Do you know all these people?"

We do not, however, normally greet other people in breakfast rooms. It's just not the custom. I don't understand why someone wouldn't answer a greeting such as "Good morning." That just seems polite.

<<Funny is that after 100+ answers, almost none are on the subject.>>

After 100+ answers, it's clear that logos999 still doesn't get it. The original post evinced a not so subtle superiority attitude that his or her customs were superior to those he encountered in the U.S. from the benighted Americans.

North Americans are taught that they should learn and respect the customs and traditions of other countries that they visit. While it doesn't always happen, certainly the many threads on this board indicate a desire to learn and "do the right thing".

Perhaps before getting "mad" and branding Americans as "quite rude" he might reflect that customs are different in the U.S. than in his home country (Germany I assume).

Look, I lived in Europe for several years and have visited many times and I'm fluent in French and reasonably so in German. I try to respect the customs there, even though they differ from my own and some appear to be a bit strange to me.

If logos999 wants to enjoy his travels in the U.S. and not "get mad" perhaps a little tolerance of others' habits and customs would go a long way, as would getting rid of what appears to be quite a large chip on his shoulder.

So rudeness is a virtue?

The only person being rude on this thread is you.

Well, I'm just posting the facts, you don't like it, they're the facts nevertheless.

Look I said I would say "good morning" in reply if someone said "good morning" to me over breakfast.

But you don't want to believe that, for whatever strange reason. Your "facts" are not the facts.

Good, so you are the exception.

fodors is a very confusing place. we've been taught for years here that americans are TOO friendly, TOO SMILEY, even GUSHY (whatever that is).

logos, i suggest you don't come to the uk...we don't look at each other in the mornings or any other time. not even when two people are in a lift at an office working for the same company.

<Who knew, lol.>

loveitaly, were you calling me? And speaking of Italians, I distinctly recall in Venice a gentleman kept trying to pick me up(he wanted to make me a home cooked dinner), and made sure to inform me that he was a Venetian, not Italian. I suppose that was to impress me further. So I perfectly understand your explanation.

Anyway, logos999 likes playing the devil's advocate, and pushing people's buttons. It seems he's succeeding.

walkinaround wrote: "fodors is a very confusing place. we've been taught for years here that americans are TOO friendly, TOO SMILEY, even GUSHY (whatever that is)."

The other generalisation often made about Americans (for which I find some support in my experiences here) is that they have no sense of irony.

logos999 is shooting fish in a barrel.

Yep, those buttons tell a lot about them, there are the uneducated, the Nazis, the nationalists, the arrogant, and ...

It's interesting, because I was just stating the mere facts! And nobody cared to refer to SuperSarko until now.

<<So rudeness is a virtue?>>

logos999, you still don't get it. Rudeness of course is not a virtue, but what you define as rudeness is not necessarily so in other societies. You are imposing your values on others.

Some foreign customs appear rude to me, but I would never be so judgemental as to apply my values to other societies.

"Si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi."

Nazis? wtf?

Yep, some answers clearly indicate that

I thought this post was joke when I read the heading.

When did one curmudgeon's experience become fact?

Maybe this is the German version of the windup. If so, it's not very clever.

obxgirl wrote: "Maybe this is the German version of the windup. If so, it's not very clever."

It didn't need to be.

I'm still trying to understand how the rantings of one old geezer makes things "facts".

Believe me there is no button pushing going on for me on this thread. For that we would actually need a topic not just one person's delusional thinking.

Think about it, your button is pushed , you might just not have realized it now. Think about the answer you just gave. It's quite easy to see.

And yes, just stating the facts!

OK that part is true, it does push my buttons when people ignore what is being said and just keep saying over and over (and over) their original premise with no regard for the input they have received to the contrary.

What Americans do or do not say to you over breakfast, believe me, that does not push anything.

Not yet, but you'll find your answer!

Well, I'm just posting the facts, you don't like it, they're the facts nevertheless.

I suspect this is supposed to be ironic? Your posts would seem to indicate a complete indifference to facts. Perhaps it is a language issue? Does "fact" mean unsubstantiated claim in German?

logos likes to say the ridiculous and then when challenged, he goes on the defense and goes WAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Then he attempts to make everyone else look like they are the one with the problem...case closed--he is the wacko.

Try visiting a B & B or a hotel instead of a motel and I have a feeling you'll be dealing with a different class of folks...

I've lived in the US my entire life and I can't remember the last time someone didn't reply to me with a "Good morning" if I initiated the conversation with a "Good morning" in the first place...albeit, I don't stay in motels...

Keep em coming

>hotel instead of a motel .. dealing with a different class.
That may well be the case?!

Logos999 - come to Canada. You only see someone every couple hundred miles. And people always stop and compare compass bearings.

logos likes to say the ridiculous and then when challenged, he goes on the defense and goes WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Give him a break. It is hard to continually make things up as you go along.

Been to Québec, BC, SK, Manitoba, Yukon, NB.
Some really nice places to live. Smart people too, just the winters would be a problem. Not everybody can live in Kelowna...

Never knew anyone who stayed in a hotel. They were popular in Norman Bates days

At the motel instead of saying:

"Good Morning!!"

try

"Hot Sheet?"

germans do have a different sense of humour. it's a mystery to most normal people.

Ever been to a Waffle House in the south? Every employee in the place yells "Good Morning" every time a customer comes in.

This is pretty funny. You just have to ignore logos999 and enjoy the different customs everyone else has quoted.

To foreign travelers;

The charm and attraction of a Waffle House is that they have not cleaned the grill or waffle maker since 1957. That is what gives its own flavor.

I have always thought of Americans as being so much more friendly than the Germans, and it is not easy for me to say this considering I am German from Germany. In the US, people almost always greet me with a smile and then they ask me how I am doing. I think that is very polite and just friendly. Americans really do try to be nice to people and to be friendly and it shows. Many of my German friends who have visited the US feel the same way and they are just so impressed with how warm and friendly and happy people are here. A lot of Germans come across as being grumpy. And there are many Germans who won't say "good morning", you just can't overgeneralize. Fact is there are friendly people in both countries but as a whole, Americans do seem a little more friendly to me

geez....in New Orleans, you'll not only get "Good Morning" but you're also likely to be asked about your family, get a full account of how their family is doing, what they're gonna "fix" for dinner, and maybe - if you're lucky - you'll be invited!

There are all kinds all over the world. Generalizations like the one made are just silly.

This thread reminds me of that scene in "Crocodile Dundee" where he's walking down a busy NY street tipping his hat and saying "G'day" to everybody. And nobody answers.

I don't remember any occasion during my European travels when I was staying someplace and a stranger addressed me at breakfast. Unless it was a staff member or one of the times when, as a solo traveler, I was seated with someone else at a table (at a B&B).

I tend to be cagey about talking to strangers myself, whether here or abroad. More out of safety than anything else, since I'm often traveling alone.

Does a what's up or how you doing count?

Yep, it does. Again, the original statement, the simple facts:

Americans will not answer the "Good morning" when addressed at breakfast.

Doesn't refer to "in the street", "to the mailman" etc.

It really makes me mad that Germans hog the sidewalks and talk too loudly in absolutely every corner of the world. That is SO rude!

<germans do have a different sense of humour. it's a mystery to most normal people.>

thank you. now i get it. finally an explanation of this thread.

Suze, don't take the easy way out. . Hasn't got a thing to do with us Germans. I'm just telling facts.

Actually, I'd say logos' sense of humour is a mystery to most normal Germans as well. The ones I've met, worked with (not to mention our very nice relatives in BW and NRW) are not antagonistic and full of themselves. They'd find logos even more annoying than Fodorites--perhaps that explains his posts, he can't get any normal Germans to talk to him either and has to travel to the ends of the earth just to find someone willing to tell him Good Morning!

Why does telling simple facts leads to aggressions in Americans? Can't they be more tolerant and relaxed?

Why does telling simple facts lead to aggessions in Americans?

I see no Americans getting aggressive because of facts. I see a few getting annoyed about falsehoods being presented as facts. I see a German who refuses to honestly address errors in their statements. But, nobody has gotten upset about any facts, as far as I can tell.

With all of our other faults is not saying "Good Morning" the worst thing to complain about?

I think we are just a lot more childlike. As a whole, (except for Philadelphia where people are notoriously mean) I think we can be warmer and friendlier than most people - we are just impolite-- like children. And its just not the custom for people to say hello or goodbye to strangers in restaurants. If you want them to say something, go up to them and ask where the gift shop is or the highway is and you'll then get a big smile and a likely attempt at answering your question --I think even in Phile (maybe not). By the way, does anyone have any idea while people in people in both metropolitan/suburban Philadelphia are so nasty -- Its not my imagination - I understand multiple surveys have shown them to be the most intolerant people in country by alot. I lived there for twelve years --and it was an unbelievably mean place. You get in the way of someone's cart in the supermarket and they hiss at you. Everywhere else they smile at you and say excuse me.

And its just not the custom for people to say hello or goodbye to strangers in restaurants.

This ain't an American thing, it isn't the custom in many places. We only have one delusional geezer that purports that it is.

I'm really glad to read this thread again--or some of the parts of it that I hadn't read the last time I posted.

I had been thinking that there hadn't been any good squabbles lately where someone posts a controversial, insulting, or otherwise contentious opinion, then umbrage is taken and insults are hurled back and forth with abandon.

Until this thread, I was thinking the board had become a bit dull lately.

Thanks to Logos and all those who've contributed to this thread.
I do miss snarky comments from more of the British posters (who shall remain unnamed), though.

>not saying "Good Morning" the worst thing to complain about?
Pretty much so. The immigration guys are m*rons too.

Thanks Peg

And yes, some folks here are highly aggressive and insulting to someone just stating from his experience. Well, you can't change them, can you?

Don't I know it Peg. It's the only fun thread on any of the forums recently. We haven't had a good round of mud-slinging in weeks!

>We haven't had a good round of mud-slinging in weeks!
You just have to go on holiday now and then.. .

Good Morning!

I've only skimmed some of the responses to logos999's assertion about the apparently rude tendencies of 301,000,000 Americans (of whom I am one). So forgive me if someone else has already said this:

Where I come from (South Dakota) people seem very friendly. We even smile and say "Hi" to strangers! Hell, even the cops wave at you.

I think a larger issue here might be that cultures vary. I certainly don't need to tell logos this. I probably don't need to say that expiencing different cultures is part of the reason we travel. And learning to adopt to (but not necessarily accept) different cultures is one of the things that makes a person more cosmopolitan - a true "citizen of the world."

Why is it that the people of Dijon, France, didn't smile at me and say "Hi" when we passed on the street? Well. . . . they're French and the French (so I'm told) see such behavior as a sign of senility. But they're not rude because they don't behave like the people I see in my home town.

I do not believe that my beliefs or cultural attitudes are the beliefs and cultural attitudes that the whole world should be measured by. I doubt that logos would think this about his, either.

Logos - come to South Dakota and I'll show you friendliness (though there are exceptions - even here on the plains.)

>South Dakota
That's the Mount Rushthingy thing...
Been there already. Texas was best so far.

I bet in Texas you got a "Howdy" rather than a "good morning" logos.

Just be glad you don't have a neighbor like I do. I was outside watering the garden this morning and this fellow walked by. I said "good morning Jack" and he said "hmmmmmph!" LOL, I thought of this thread of yours.

Well, I can't speak for all of the Americans, but I can tell you why I would not say "Good Morning" when greeted by a complete stranger at breakfast. Breakfast is my quiet time. My time to read a paper, come fully awake with the aid of an infusion of caffeine, and to gather my resources for the day to come.

A bubbly Kraut storming into the breakfast room, glad handing all in sundry, invading my space, and making me lose my place in Dear Abby, is in for a snarl, rather than a greeting.

GOBITM: (New web contraction, meaning "Grouchy Old Bear In The Morning")

We do say good morning, when passing a table IF they looked up from their paper at us.
It's no big deal, the situation is what promps it.

What an interesting thread.

When not around people I deal with on an every day basis (coworkers, strangers whose faces are familiar to me on the train, elevators, etc.), I do not give a "good morning/afternoon/evening/night" unless it is clear someone is addressing me.

Otherwise, do you know how silly it is to say good morning to a stranger when the stranger isn't even addressing you?

I agree with the above poster. The stranger may even snub you.

Try Oklahoma. It wasn't at breakfast but walking across the parking lot at a truck stop to get to the ladies' room. A tall guy in cowboy boots held his arms wide open for a big hug as he greeted me. A little startled, I veered around him; and he said, with a smile, "Scuse me, Little Lady." More friendly that the southern folks I'm used to!

logos: "Some" Americans don't say Good morning...not all of them are like that. Just like there are "some" Germans who won't say Good morning back. No need for overgeneralizations.

one more thing,logos: If it makes you feel any better, Germans as a whole, again, not all Germans, but as a whole, probably tend to be more formal than many Americans. It just has to do with the way we were raised, it really is a cultural thing. We really shouldn't get offended because of that. It really isn't a big deal either way.

No feelings involved here

just like many Americans say "How are you?" when they greet you. That is their way of greeting people,nothing wrong with that. Whether someone says "Good morning" or "How are you" really doesn't make a big difference.

logos: wow, you are still awake? ummm...it's like 2 am in Germany. Oh well...and when was the last time a German (total stranger) asked you how you are doing, whether it is sincere or not

jetlag... It's 1.55 on a warm Saturday night.

Why is this in the Europe forum?

Because this it where ranting Americans gather!

it is in the Europe forum because now it involves Germans as well

it's about cultural differences between Americans and Germans, at least one of those groups generally live on the European continent

how about "Auf Wiedersehen" to this
thread.

people are running out of things to say anyway...and I agree, how about a more positive thread? However, it is important to mention cultural differences, it just needs to be done in a non-offensive way. anyway...looking back at the original thread, it really was about Americans in American motels, so maybe this wasn't the right forum for this after all. Even though it involved Germans!

The thread is about people openly exposing their attitudes and aggressions in a public forum. (Some rather disturbing, but nevertheless). There should be room for this, right?

Ach logos.... Geh schlafen, es ist schon spaet! Wir kriegen das heute nicht mehr gebacken (telling him to go to sleep because it's really really late in Germany right now and that we are not gonna get anywhere with withS)

Dann backen wir morgen weiter!

minimeike,
MUAH!!

Waait
The bad thing about Germans:
"They know how Germans are"
Kisses to you too!

All Germans are not alike> I dated the vice consulate of Germany here in Boston when I was in my early twenties.
This person was so funny, played jazz and classical piano and was in IMHO a decent painter.
I missed him when he got transferred to India.

Logos,

Now that you've turned into a night person, maybe you can finally stop insisting on getting people to say that annoying phrase?

I play the piano, but I can't paint, sorry about that.

>you can finally stop insisting on getting people to say that annoying phrase?
That's difficult, because in the end, they think, they all do it by themselves.
They actually believe, that they're free.

Sure there is room for this type of pointless thread. There's a special forum called the "Lounge" where this would be right at home.

I had to chuckle at the OP's comment because I have experienced the opposite in the US.
Canon Chasuble and I worked in New England for two years, many moons ago.
Before we left, we spent the last few weeks driving from coast to coast.
On, I admit only two occasions, we were engaged in lengthy conversations at breakfast by people who wanted to know where we came from etc.
On each occasion, they kept saying, "Carry on eating", but we ended up with a cold breakfast.

I don't get cigalechanta's remark (minimeike:"Muah") Huh?

and I still don't think this thread is pointless. Again-mentioning cultural differences can be very important for mutual understanding

>>I don't get cigalechanta's remark (minimeike:"Muah") <<

It means blowing you a kiss, definitely a positive! Have a great trip home.

oh okay! Thanks! Just wasn't sure. I'm relieved now!

i remember now
it was in vienna that people who walked into the breakfast room would nod and say goodmorning or the equivalent to all in the room
like a blanket blessing

that WAS nice

i remember the canadian i was travelling with always saying hello or whatever before requesting something in a shop
that was a surprise

but really nice once again

i must remember to do that
put it on my list along with the diptheria shots i might be needing

ill try it out in russia...see how i last..nodding and smiling lol

Yes, Canada and Austria are civilized places indeed. Russians are o.k. too, just don't drink all the vodka you're offered.

I find some people in my workplace quite unfriendly. I work with over 40 different nationalities.

Now I'm on a politeness campaign. I say hello - bonjour - good morning - guten morgen - whatever to EVERYONE I meet in the corridor. Many do not even respond.

I'll revert in a few weeks with a breakdown of friendly/unfriendly nationalities.

All Germans will respond, no doubt about that! It's standard procedure. And don't forget the midday greeting "Mahlzeit" (meal time).

Not greeting in the office is an insult. They should be fired!

This definitely happens in France. In shops, in cafes, in restaurants, everywhere.

It is NOT the culture here in sunny Scotland, but one adapts. When in Rome do as the Romanians (as my mother always said).

Mr Sarkozy, OTOH, is barking mad.

America's a big place! If you are eating in a small room in a Hampton Inn, in the middle of Arkansas, you might get a hearty "hello" from a few people. If you are in an airport motel near Newark, NJ, you'll find different vibes...

It all depends on the situation & location.

Why is it that Logos begins every thread with complaints about Americans? Does he ever get tired of it?

Not as long as YOU feel the urge to answer.

If I make eye contact with someone, I'll do the polite nod and smile, but saying "Good Morning" is not the norm. I think it stems from not wanting to welcome unwanted attention from people. I've made the mistake of being too friendly and then having the person follow me as I tried to walk to work or the train station. In NYC, it's usually safer not to engage someone.

I will however, offer directions to anyone who asks. Even if they don't ask but look like lost tourists, I will offer help.

For my best friend in Texas it is the norm to say "hello" or "good morning" to everyone. She had to adjust when she moved down there.

I used to say good morning was I was younger, but way back then there was a come back that was going around for good morning, which was "What's so good about it!" that turned me off after several people said it to me and after that I stopped saying the good part. Just my excuse for passing on Good.

And we wonder why there are so many sad, lonely and rudderless lost souls in modern life. And ever greater numbers that need drugs, booze, or something addictive to make their spirits whole.

People need people. And people also need personal recognition that they are a person, an individual.

Daily, they need it.

logos999, I think it's quite rude too.

Any person who says "Good Morning" to me, always gets an answering "Good Morning".

My DIL has worked for a tech and very modern company (not a soul is over 35) and they have initiated into their mission type statement, a committment to address. It's not anything religious or defensive or anything negative- not related to any of that.

All it states is that people do address welcome and departure in this manner. And that people are required to respond.

As with any stranger, until they harm me or become a pest, what have you really gained by ignoring a greeting?

To me, what you have gained is succeeding in isolating yourself as an "other".

Try it, if you don't respond now. Manners are the positive energy.

logos999, there are places, lots of places where "good mornings" are answered in motels, even in the USA. And where people don't put the answering of a "good morning" in the same category as a "talking to stranger" dictate within any child/adult scenario, but just as the bottom line manners of being human. Adult human to adult human.

In small town Midwest, in IN, MI, Iowa, most of IL- you will always get an answering and often cheerful "good morning".

Not to answer is to ignore and make you invisible. Yes, rude.

Inoticed that 2 posters here took the time to disparage New Yorkers as being rude.

I'm a New Yorker, and as usual when I hear that statement, I will speak up. In fact, there have been surveys done where actors were sent into the streets of various cities to ask strangers for help. and New Yorkers came in at the top or near the top as being the most responsive and helpful to strangers. I also will say that many travelers pass through my neighborhood, and most weeks I have taken time to help people out with directions and also suggestions of how to spend their time here. So I think it's a bit rude to make disparaging remarks about my hometown, and I'd really like to see that knee-jerk habit of putting New Yorkers change. Thank you for your time.

Bella

I meant to write "putting New Yorkers down"

Logos999: Shouldn't you just be thanking your lucky stars all we do is ignore your greeting and don't respond by popping a cap in your ass?

Especially as you are one of several on this board that always seems to be labouring under the impression that all Americans are packing guns and we're all ready to shoot them given the slightest provocation.

yeah, let you anger roam free...

Bellastarr, my unique NY experience: I was shopping and bought on sale, a travel wallet that hangs on your neck with a leather lace at Berdorfs. As I left the store, carrying packages and my shoulder bag, a storm suddenly hit, heavy rain and thunder. My bags fell apart and I was on my knees picking up my stuff and couldn't find my handbag. I went back into Bergdorfs explained my situation and they let me use the phone to call the friends I was meeting at the Ocean Club. I was told to get cab they'd meet me and pay for it
Luckily one had my plane ticket.
Back in Boston, a few days later, I had a phone call from the NYPD.
He said: You are one lucky lady, we have your purse with money and all intact. I asked for the gentleman's named to reward him. I contacted him by phone, he refused ny reward but to be more careful and enjoy life. I keep that police report sent to m.

Okay, believe it or not, as I was sitting in a comedy club in RENO, NEVADA (one place in America where the hookers, strippers, card dealers and bar tenders would LOVE to say hello to you, and at any time of day for that matter), I couldn't believe what I heard...

A comedian from CANADA explained to us all that no where else but in the U.S. will you be bombarded with people saying "Hello" "Good Morning!" "How are you?" and so forth... He stated that each time he visits America he feels like he's being MOLESTED. Americans are "TOO NICE" and it makes him uncomfortable.

logos999 - Try including Reno, Nevada on your next trip to the U.S.
I'd love to hear about your experience.

And from one German to another...

I know all too well that we start the morning out by saying "Guten Morgen" then we spend the rest of our day complaining about anything and everything.

It's a vicious cycle and unfortunately, is inherited.

Very funny strand and very surprising to me too.

I stayed for two weeks at a hotel in Rome. My family were generally the only ones there who weren't German. Every few days a new set would come in on the German tour buses. Almost every day, there would be between 10 and 50 Germans in the breakfast room. In all those days, none of the Germans ever addressed any of my family with a hello. When I got up to get some food, they did not make eye contact when I was before or behind them at the table.

I did not assume that Germans were rude. However, I did conclude they were rather insular and private.

My dad, who loves to make a friend, tried smiling and making eye contact more than once and was ignored. The Italian staff did always say hello.

Thanks so much cigalechanta, for posting that story.
So often people make that "rude" comment about New Yorkers as if it's a throw-away line, and your anecdote has helped me in my little travel site campaign to set the record straight!

A favorite story of mine is a recent one about a well-known concert violinist who gave a private concert to a group of NY Taxi drivers to thank one of them for going to some trouble to find the owner of a violin left in his cab. It turned out to be a Stradivarius...

BTW, it's almost 4:30 am here, so GOOD MORNING everyone from NYC! Have a lovely day!

Well thank you, bellastarr, it's a beautiful near perfect weather day with a refreshing breeze in the 70's here in countryside IL. I saw the fading moon within a gorgeous field of blue coming in- with beautiful lush crops of greens, yellow and all the shades between reaching into that blue.

Glorious good morning to all!

This is a very funny thread.

logos999.....were you the fella pouring ketchup on your grits??

good morning all! a relative issue...i have begun to reply "very well, thanks" instead of "fine, how are you" as a response to store employees when they greet me (in a somewhat fake and monotonous way as if it is an employee rule that one must follow or get demerits on their evaluation). this is my attempt at genuine communication. and. have you ever called a store by phone to be greeted with "hello...thankyoufor
calling*al-mar*it'sabeautifuldaythis isbarbarasmithjoneshowmayihelpyou? then you're put on hold.

bella, that was a Newark cabbie, but I guess we'll let you claim him for NYC!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/07/usa.classicalmusic

No, It was a New York yellow cab and he caught the taxi at Newark Airpport into Manhattan. The Newark police were involved because the Airport is in Newark.
But I'm sure that Newark cabbies would do the same.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7385174.stm

Good morning everyone, it's a new day! Have a lovely day!

Good Morning from Canada! (and feel free to ignore me if you are eating breakfast)

DH and I have been noticing an odd thing...when you meet kids that you have already been introduced to(like the ones at the camp in Maine we vacation at) some of them don't say hello, ANYTIME OF DAY, even when we say "hi" to them. We are not weird: we have kids of our own.

All this "not talking to strangers" stuff has gotten through but in a very weird, mixed-up way...it is obvious that kids get warned, but the explanation has been given in such a manner that they are paranoid (or lazy)about speaking to ANYYONE! Even the parents of kids they were playing soccer with the day before...

And I am not just talking about little kids: I have passed folks up to the age of about 30, along the path to the breakfast we share at the lodge in Maine and received blank stares in repsonse to my cheery "Hi" or "Good Morning". I know their names, for crying out loud,not because I am stalking them with sinister intent but because I have seen them for 10 hours a day for the last two weeks.

There is prudent caution and then there is just plain ignorance. And let me make this plain, I am NOT referring to the US alone...this same phenomenon happens with some young people who live in my neighbourhood.

I was quite prepared to become invisible as I grew older. I just didn't think it was going to happen at 45 and I didn't expect to become inaudible to everyone (well, some!) under 30!

Have a good day!

Manners are no longer taught.

Instead, successive generations have saturated their brains more and more with movie actors, TV stars, indescribably primitive "music," and sports figures, leaving no room for social niceties (or, in extreme cases, even common decency).

Will civilization endure? Probably.

Does it matter? Not in the slightest.

You obviously haven't been to the southern U.S. It's a whole different culture than northern or even western U.S. People are much more gracious and friendly--that's why they call it "southern hospitality".

Yes, it was A LOT better down there!

I disagree with that last Robies' post.

It very much matters.

Manners matter.

Someone here said that "Manners are the vasoline of all social intercourse."

How humans relate to one another as individuals in real time, face to face- may be one of the most important issues over time. Because we are going to have to work better in groups and as a species, than we do now. And it starts with the smaller units and works upward to larger groups. Especially if we remain so emotionally based in some of our large group actions, as we have in the last couple of centuries.

A friend of mine who many years ago served as a midshipman on a Royal Navy ship recalled saluting the Captain one morning with a "Good Morning, Sir" to receive the reply, "When I want a weather report, snotty, I'll ask for one." (Snotty is the informal term for a midshipman).

I also understand that officers in the Brigade of Guards will wear a hat at breakfast in the mess to indicate that they do not wish to be spoken to.

Manners vary according to place and circumstance.

I work occasionally in the fitness center of a gym and I often greet members with Good morning.

Can't say I recall how they respond back. It's probably just with a Hi, but I don't think that's rude.

I usually greet people I see while running (not in the gym, on the street) with a Good morning as well. Most people return my greeting.

I did notice that in Telluride, CO, everyone seemed react like I was nuts to be talking to them.

were you saying 'good morning' like a normal person or were you doing that deutscher gruß salute thing again?

This old Thread is good..I must have missed it while I was in Europe in July 2008..

It's not just good, it's simply brilliant.
But then, you folks far more hateful today then you were 3 years ago. You just call eachother names.

Last year I spent a day in Frankfurt and had breakfast in the hotel. Not one person said good morning to anyone else when entering nor did they say good bye when leaving. No one said good morning to me any place else in Frankfurt.

I'm going back to Frankfurt this year to try again.

OBVIOUSLY you've never been to North Carolina. They say "Good Morning, sir" (or ma'am) and compliment you on your attire (if it deserves comment) then they talk about the weather, or the Carolina or Duke game, or Barbeque, or.......

Perhaps you should get out of the cities and into the real America? We were continually greeted with "Good Morning" while walking down the street in Wallingford, Vermont,by people we've never met - and by the way, here we say "Gidday"; the world varies, that's why we travel!

Americans are the friendliest folk in the world, in our experience as travelling Australians.

As for the south, if you like your gracious, friendly people with guns, go for it.

Please don't come to Australia Logos999 - there's no telling WHAT we might say to you in the morning or any other time. BUT you have done me a huge favour - I wanted USA again next year and HE wanted Europe; now he agrees with me and we're going to the Grand Canyon. Good morning.

I'll test it out later this month when I'm in the US. The Americans I've greeted in Europe have always been very polite and I'm sure they said Good Morning. Nothing special, just the usual greeting over breakfast in the hotel etc.

I hope that madgicsh isn't serious! We Australians are as polite as anyone else.

I'm out of this, it's getting boring and repetitive; but for those of you who persist, be wary, he has vays of making you say good morning!

**Generally speaking, it seems to me ** -- People in cities or from cities often maintain their personal space through the decision not to interact with others unnecessarily. You can see this on elevators, in subways, negotiating paths on the sidewalk, and in hotel breakfast areas, etc.

Once actually involved in a natural progression towards interaction, city people are usually just as friendly as anyone else, IME. I've had loads of friendly help in NYC, for instance, even on the street. But - busting in on their morning breakfast looking for momentary companionship isn't what most city people would consider natural or a necessary infringement.

People from areas further from high density areas tend to appear more friendly as they don't see these interactions as intrusions. They live with more space (but usually fewer amenities - no one situation is ideal). Because they live with more distance, they may look for ways to create the interactions in a more arranged sort of way, much like the way they live.

This pattern has held just as true in the parts of Europe I've visited as it has in the US or Australia where I've lived or visited. People are people above all else.

Clifton, your observation meshes neatly with my own principle that perceived distance is a function of the number of people you pass along the way.

If you are unable to deal with cultures different from your own, you should stay home. What one culture considers rude may be considered mandatory etiquette by another.

I find Clifton's theory a bit deep. Here's mine. If it's a good looking woman, I say good morning. If it's a man, I don't.

SMART, colduphere! I do the reverse, but then I'm female. Nice to be able to have a joke in the midst of such inflexibility and hostility. Incidentally, we're Aussies - since you are probably NOT 'just like us' should I speak to you?

Nikki - very good. The more people coming at you, the closer they seem to be getting?

Cold, it's a good alternate theory, but if you're like the OP, we'll end up with nothing but threads with you complaining about all the women who won't talk to you.

Clifton be nice and don't destroy this great thread.
Whitty people that actually had some great answers to contibute.

logos - it's "witty."

It's also "contRibute"

It's late - I missed one of your spelling errors!

And you missed a smiley!

This smiley should have worked.

Yes, it should have but it didn't. Didn't work for me either when I previewed.

logos - colduphere knows I'm probably kidding him.

I was just about to offer everyone here a few "Good mornings" when I remembered the Viagra commercial with that fat old geezer chirping along the street offering several "good mornings" to everyone he meets. So never mind.

Madgicsh - I was recently voted best looking Canadian north of 89 degrees latitude.

Speaking of communication this heard yesterday:
Passenger: Have a good day.
Bus driver: No, not likely.

there's nothing like the american
how are you today? ( which sounds bit funny to my non american ears - since they just met me, they didn't know me since yesterday)...
But regardless ofit is a good morning, a hi, or a how are you today, one should always be polite and return the good morning...

Geez it turns out that the Viagra good morning commercial was made in Canada. I guess Americans couldn't relate to a happy fella saying good morning to everyone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFGpI8bfep0&feature=player_embedded#at=17

Sorry colduphere, I'm probably not even the best looking Rottweiler owner in our village of 300

Are you the ONLY Canadian north of 89 degrees? (Just checking, Eh!)

I'm a Queenslander by birth, my husband never ceases to remind me that we say Eh too!

Isn't this all a great excuse for a joke - if you're not logos! Is he for real or just someone stirring up trouble?

Is your way of life just trouble? Or do you have a message about yourself? Rottweiler or smart? That would be interesting. What koind of person are you? Or are you a "smart Rottweiler" (if that does exist?)