Mike Silver

Hello, <BR>We are planning a trip to Switzerland in three weeks and I am trying to <BR>understand the Rail System. <BR> <BR>My wife and I will be in ch for two weeks and we have purchased the Swiss <BR>Saverpass for 15 days. <BR> <BR>I was under the impression that this would be all inclusive for all <BR>trains in ch. Now it seems that certain trains are not included. I <BR>the web, the ssb, myswitzerland, and others and <BR>I can not get a definite answer as to which trains are included and <BR>which are not. Typical marketing talk that makes me think everything <BR>and more is included!!!! It seems I have been fooled! <BR>We are staying a week in Wengen, 2 nights each in Zermatt, and Lucerne, <BR>one night in St. Mortiz and one night in Zurich. <BR>We want to go on excursions and I also thought they were included in the pass, but I <BR>don't think so anymore. <BR>Can anyone shed some light on the Swiss rail system? <BR> <BR>Thanks, <BR>Mike <BR> <BR>

Tony

Mike.. <BR> <BR>I am not the definitive expert on this but I believe your Saver Pass covers all trains, boats and busses in Switzerlend, except for a limited number of privately owned Swiss mountain railways, all of which seem to vary. Some are free, some offer discounts, and some don't recognise the pass at all. <BR>Unfortunately for you I think the railways around Wengen, where you are staying for a week, are amongst the most expensive, even with a discount, which I think they will offer. <BR>For other excursions, once you get down to Interlaken, it should be free rides all the way. <BR>Around Wengen there are lots of scenic touring opportunites using a combination of mountain railways, cable cars, and walking. <BR>However to extract most value from your pass, you might want to shorten your stay in Wengen by 2/3 days, and base yourself elsewhere. <BR>There is an organisation called the Jungfraubahnen, which is a cooperative of the various railways above Interlaken. I have an old brochure of theirs which shows the Tel.No. as 036 264 111, and Fax Number 036 264 264. They probably have a web site by now, which may give you more info on passes, prices etc. They market a variety of combined tickets/passes using the trains and cable cars etc. <BR>Hope this helps.

Mike Silver

Tony, <BR>Thanks for the tip. You told me what I was afraid of. The Railway up from Interlakken to Wengen,Murren, etc is not included and among the most expensive. I would like to get more info on this rail way. I think it is called the Berner Oberland, do you know? <BR>What other small towns would you recommend we take day trips too while in Wengen. We have timeshare so we are going to maximiza it and stay there all 7 nights, then we will journey to Zermatt, Lucerne, St. Moritz and Zurich <BR>Thanks again, <BR>Mike

Marcie

Good topic as we will also be in the same situation. Is there a special train pass which DOES cover all or most trains in the Bernese Oberland area? Interlaken was mentioned as being covered and this is in the Bernese Oberland region.??? Is the Swiss Pass the same as the Swiss Saverpass? Marcie

Ed

SwissPass (and it's SaverPass variant for parties of more than 1) is valid across Switzerland on most trains, buses in 30+ cities, most boats. <BR> <BR>Trains to year-around-inhabited points like Zermatt, Wengen, Grindelwald, Lauterbrunnen, Immelwald and Mürren are included in the pass. Trains above such points usually give a 25% discount. <BR> <BR>Cables and funiculars are usually not included, though the cable and funicular to Mürren are. <BR> <BR>When we stay in the Jungfrau region for two weeks we find the SwissPass (incl. Saver) a good deal. We use it extensively in the region, enjoy the discounts we get on mountaintop excursion and get benefit during our day trips outside the area, as well as the free travel to/from Zürich. <BR> <BR>The BernerOberland Pass is another possibility. We ourselves find it too restrictive and not covering enough, but others like it. Coverage is described at <BR>http://www.bls.ch/english/sites/karte_e.html <BR> <BR>It can't be emphasized strongly enough: there is not "right" pass for everyone. In our opinion many visitors will benefit from the SwissPass. BUT ... it very much depends on exactly how much travel you'll do, and where and when. You have to price out each trip and compare to the various passes. Then you choose from among buying point-to-point tickets (which is the "right" choice for a surprisingly high number of people), the SwissPass, BernerOberland Pass, the Jungfrau Pass or the Mürren-Schilthorn Pass. <BR> <BR>You'll find a bit more prose describing these at www.twenj.com/swpasses.htm as well as the URLs of the definitive sources of information on the various passes. <BR> <BR>You can generally find point to point fares at the Swiss Rail website, <BR>www.rail.ch and the Jungfrau Railways website, <BR>www.jungfraubahn.ch <BR> <BR>You'll also find sample point to point fares at <BR>http://twenj.com/swissrail2.htm#Fares <BR> <BR>There's really not much opportunity for confusion if one reads all the material carefully. There are lots of good offers out there, each with its own value. What we find many are unwilling or unable to do is to figure out when and where they're going to travel. You can only select the "right" pass if you're willing to do that, since no one else has any idea what you want to do. <BR> <BR>

mike silver

Thanks Ed. So if I am traveling between mountain villages like Murren, Wengen, Grimellwald, etc. my pass will cover the rail? When i want to go on excursions to Mountain tops I may have to pay additonal for the cable cars and gondolas etc.? <BR>Thanks

Ed

Right Mike. You'll find mountaintop excursion prices on <BR>www.twenj.com/swmountaintrips.htm

Myer

We went from Brig to Zermatt last year and the train was about $75.US. That did not include excursions from Zermatt on up. We had a Europass that was good for a certain number of days in I think 30. That train is a private one. <BR>Even some of the special trains that are not private carry a supplement and/or require a reservation even if not full. I guess a way to get more from you. The schedule on the web site indicates if there is a supplement or requires a reservation. <BR>You weren't fooled. You just didn't know and that's normal.

Ed

Myer, please don't confuse the issue. <BR> <BR>The Swiss Pass (and Saver) have no relationship to the Eurailpass or other pan-European passes. They do not cover many, many private railroads in Switzerland. <BR> <BR>The Swiss Pass covers almost everything, except as discussed above. No supplements. <BR> <BR>The only extra is for seat reservations, which are not possible on most Swiss trains and not really needed on virtually any. The exceptions are certain scenic trains including the Glacier Express (about which you spoke) for which a reservation is mandatory. The fee is nominal, something like $5. <BR> <BR>If you had a Swiss Pass you'd have paid nothing for your trip from Brig to Zermatt. Unless you traveled on a train designated as a Glacier Express which would have required the reservation fee. Most of the trains on that route are not so designated. I show a fare of under $40 round trip in second class, about $60 or so in first class.

Bob Brown

We have gone round and round on this topic over the years on this forum. <BR>Having been to Switzerland for weeks at a time, let me run through some of my experiences and knowledge. <BR> <BR>The Swiss Federal Rail System, known as the SBB (Schweizerische Bundesbahnen in the German speaking parts) does not operate ALL of the rail lines in Switzerland. <BR> <BR>The Berner Oberlandbahn (BOB)private company operates the trains from Interlaken to Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen. (Your Swiss pass should be good to both places.) Subsidiaries of the BOB operate several trains that take you higher into the mountains. For example, the Wengener Alpbahn (WAG) subsidiary runs the trains from Lauterbrunnen to Wengen to Kleine Scheidegg. <BR> <BR>From Brig and Visp to Zermatt there is another private line known as the BVZ Zermatt Bahn. And the Glacier Express is also private. I have not ridden these trains as much, so my knowledge is a little more limited. <BR> <BR>It is too late now, but you probably would have found that the Swiss Card was more valuable to you for the mountain rides. When I bought one three years ago, we got the Jungfrau trip for a substantial discount as well as a free trip from Zürich to Lauterbrunnen. Because of its value, I concluded quickly that the Card was the best deal for our intended heavy use of mountain cable systems. <BR> <BR>Last summer, we bought the Berner Regional Oberland Pass. This year it sells for 180 chf, with a 20% discount offered to Swiss Pass holders. <BR> <BR>If you are interested in more details, there is a web site for the Berner Oberland Pass: <BR>http://www.regiopass-berneroberland.ch/ <BR>It now has an English version. <BR> <BR>The web site includes a map of the validity region, which shows a region that reaches from Bern to Zermatt. So, the validity region is not limited just to the Interlaken - Lauterbrunnen - Grindelwald area. <BR> <BR>Of course the question is: Does the Berner Oberland Pass save you money? <BR>Good question. It depends on how much you use it and which rides you use it on during your free days. <BR> <BR>When I bought the pass last year, I paid full price for it because I had no Swiss Rail Pass. (We rode with Avis.) <BR>I figured at the time that if we took the four most expensive rides, we would save a little money. Anything after that was gravey. I did not include in my calculations the final leg of the Jungfrau trip, which goes from Kleine Scheidegg to the Jungfraujoch, because that section of the trip is always sold at 50% off; it is never "free". <BR> <BR>After riding all over the place last summer on every ride we had time for, I concluded that we got our money's worth and then some!! <BR> <BR>So the picture is not simple; in fact, it is one of the most complex pass situations that I know of. There are so many variations and options with many complex price structures, that making a definite analysis is virtually impossible. Trying to set up a computer algorithm to reach an optimal solution is more than I care to undertake!!! <BR>There are so many variables that could be introduced, that the calculations almost become a branch and bound type of effort. The what-if possibilities become almost endless if you try to set it up on a spread sheet as I did. <BR>So I simplified the calculations by assuming that we would have good weather and that we would ride to our heart's content. <BR>That is what we did, and we had a great time. The scenery sure as hecks beats anything Disney Whatever has to offer. <BR>

Bob Brown

OOPS my poor proofing skills strike again. The Wengener Alpbahn is WAB!! <BR>The BOB cars are painted in shades of brown. (Ugly color it seems to me.) <BR>The WAB cars are green and yellow! <BR>One of the fun rides is the train up to Schynige Platte. I advise staying off of it on a weekend. We went up on a Sunday and I thought we would not get down until Monday. <BR> <BR>I am sure you have heard stories about legendary Swiss train punctuality == that the doors start closing 15 seconds before departure time. Well, the punctuality aspect of the Schynige Platte ride went out the window about 2 PM. People ganged around on the platform about 5 PM pushing for a place on the cars. They come up gradually, but want to go down all at once. <BR>We got down, but not when we expected. Fortunately, we had not planned any thing else that day except getting back to our apartment. <BR>The same thing can happen at the Jungfraujoch. I recommend taking that excursion during the week, and that you take the earliest train you can make. <BR>We left before 8 and came down in the early afternoon before the mob began to swell in size. <BR> <BR>

mike silver

Bob, <BR>You are a bundle of knowledge. I can't thank you enough. You have certainly cleared this up for me, however, like you said, it difficult to compute the dollars. Thanks again, your explanation was clear and comprehensive.

jw

Hello Mike, I've enjoyed reading the exchange that you started. I've used the Swiss Pass (Saver) on several trips. It covered my visit to Wengen and Grindelwald, but I'm not sure about Murren. It even covered a lot of city transportation. All the boats except on Lago Maggiore. I'm wondering if you have received your little map which comes with the pass? It turned out to be accurate as far as coverage. Have a wonderful trip; you'll love the Swiss rail system. I'll mention one more thing: If you are zipping around making connections to get to out-of-the-way places, notice that more than one train will use the same track within the space of a couple of minutes. So before you hop on a bit early, check the markings on the outside of the train car -- your train might be the one arriving in another two minutes.

Brian

Mike: <BR> <BR>Since you already took your trip, would you give us some feedback on the Swiss rail system. <BR> <BR>We are planning a similar itinerary: ski in Berner Oberland for a week then to Zermatt then Lucerne then home. Originally, we plan to go to St. Moritz (glacier express) then to Zurich but we were talked out of (too much travel for 2 weeks). At first we planned to get the Swiss Saver of flexi pass but after reading these messages, we thought of getting the swiss card which will give us 50% on all the transportation modes. <BR>What do you think?