Barcelona?

I don't think I would consider Rome that hectic. Sure, it is very alive but I don't think any more than NYC or London. I find Florence more stifling and crowded. Venice is not an easy city to get to and depending on the time of year it can be extremely crowded and hectic.

Why not go to Rome in the Spring, April or May, before the hordes descend into it? You can always fo a day trip to Orvieto or Florence if you want to "escape" Rome.

Random thoughts...

Amsterdam - not hectic at all, excellent art viewing but also plenty of places to stop for coffee, beer...

London is pricy, but excellent public transportation and plenty to see, and lots of parks and neighborhoods for relaxation. Maybe combine it (via train) with a few days in Paris...

What about a cruise in the Med or Scandinavia? Unpack once, sleep in an excellent bed every night, and it can be quite reasonable in cost terms, considering it's room, board, transportation and entertainment. Skip the hokey excursions. Sea days are incredibly restful.

I took my 70+ Mum two years ago - 5 days Paris, 5 days Rome (she wanted to go to Rome) and a week in the French countryside. What did she enjoyed most? The time in the countryside. We had a car and drove every day at a very leisurely pace to 2 or 3 nearby villages and spend some time there. We used to break the day into two - and always went back to the Hotel for a nap.

She also liked Rome more than Paris. But the highlight for her was the small villages.

Take them on a Cruise we are older Than your parents! & we get to go to different countries & take tours & if one of us don;t feel up to going ashore the other can go.They would be more familiar with the food. If they should have a medical problem there are Drs on board. Plus you will get do have time on your own!!! we are off to an eastern Mediteranean Cruise in June starting in Greece & ending in Turkey.

fishee - you are very kind to take your parents on a trip! I bet they'd enjoy Paris and have probably been intrigued by your travels.

I found Rome to be relaxing but Rome may be difficult simply because the pavement is so uneven. I think Paris is easier to walk without paying attention. Vienna may be nice as well.

We took my 75 y-o MIL to Ireland and she enjoyed it. We drove, she rode along and liked the restaurants and the short walks. But then she travels lots.

definitely a cruise for their enjoyment and your sanity. Why? Once they are on the ship they will be entertained by others..you won't have to be the social director. They won't have to pack and unpack. They can choose to do as little of much sight seeing as they wish and can use the tours that are set up by the ship if they wish.

Austria ?
No offence to the previous poster, but my 70+ parents would go insane 'jailed' on a boat for a cruise (ans i suspect the OP's parents too if they didn't like a group tour)

..disagree with the last poster. If you choose the ship well, it is nothing like a group tour. You can sit and read, swim, go to the spa ect. The med cruises have no long periods in which people are "caged" as they sail at night. Your comments might be appropriate for a river cruise.

Sounds like Vienna would be perfect for them. It's a city with fabulous art and architecture, but much more staid less frenetic than Rome or Paris.

They'd love visiting Schoennbrun palace and the kunsthistorishes museum. They could see an opera and have sacher tort or apfelstrudel at the coffee houses. A daytrip to Salzburg would be a possibility as well. As cheesy as it sounds, "The Sound of Music Tour" was lots of fun.

Cimbrone, just beat me to it. I had exactly the same thought. Vienna is a much slower pace but has the history and character one is generally looking for in Europe.

I also like the idea of going to Salzberg but I think it is too far as a day trip for your pareents. I would make it a side trip and do a couple of day drives from there. The surrounding countryside is absolutely fabulous with both lakes and mountains very close by. As Cimbrone says, the Sound of Music tour can be quite fun and does take you through that glorious countryside.

I know that my parents would just be overwhelmed with say, London, Paris or Rome.

I hope you find something to fit the bill and good on you for taking them fishee. Las tyear I took my 80yo father on a trip (just the 2 of us - first time we have ever done it) and it was amazing how much I learnt. I got to hear all these stories that I had never heard before. He played up in his youth much more than I would ever have thought, and I had always considered him so staid.

Have you thought of asking them what city they might be interested in visiting?

Good question, Dukey! A 2 bedroom apartment in London or Paris would probably be great since they could enjoy the art & architecture.

It also would be a different kind of trip & it sounds like it was only the tour they went on that made them dislike it before.

Of course your parents' wishes should determine where you go, but another vote for Vienna. I took my 70-something parents there for their 50th anniversary and they loved it. Plus points: most of the central portion is flat, for easy walking. Mass transit is ample. All the u-bahn stops have escalators and/or elevators. A good selection of good hotels in the central core. Many of the main sights are clustered in a central area, in or near a pedesrian zone. Beautiful parks. Excellent restaurants. Impressive architecture everywhere. Fabulous paintings at the Kunsthistorische, Liechtenstein and Belvedere museums. And finally, it's a city where you will see many people in their age group out and about. It's not a city relentlessly youth oriented.
There are also lots of side trip excursions...Melk abbey, the wine heurigers, Vienna woods, etc.

Hi F,

Paris.

See: Ira’s Mother’s Trip to Paris
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34497442
for things we did.

>They're pretty high maintenance and they get whipped into a stressed-out frenzy rather easily. <

I think that you want two hotel rooms.

Cruise.

A few days in Paris followed by a barge cruise in Burgundy. I did the Paris trip with my own parents and I would rate it a success, although there were testy moments when my father decided he would like to eat takeout in the hotel room for dinner...(but I am getting off topic here)

I've also taken a barge trip and it ws so supremely relaxing and interesting; we even did a balloon ride over the countryside, along witht he usual "sights" in beautiful Dijon and Beaune.

thanks for the great suggestions -- I wouldn't have thought of some of these cities since I've never been.

I will definitely ask their opinion but I wanted to do some preliminary research on a few options first. That way they can immediately see their flight would be free, I could show them a couple of apartment options in different cities (they won't believe me if I just say -- "we can stay in a very nice apartment and it will be less expensive and crowded than a hotel"), good picture books or a DVD with central sights.

I'm afraid unless I present this all at once, the first thing they'll say is, "no, it's too expensive, this doesn't sound possible, we didn't like the tour and it was too expensive, etc."

Please keep suggestions coming --thanks again.

In addition to Vienna and Salzburg I thought of Munich. Switzerland is beautiful and easy to travel around on public transportation, but sounds like not your parents' cup of tea.

Plan this trip for the shoulder season -- spring or fall. Fewer people but still good weather. I prefer spring because the days are longer.

I don't find Venice hectic. You have to stay away from San Marco and the Rialto in a quieter quartiere.

Are you sure your parents found the cities hectic or just the tour? They might really enjoy Rome or London and Paris at a slower pace. You could find them a hotel in a central location convenient to public transportation. Or maybe they'd like an apartment?

Well, my parents aren't quite so frenzied, but they are the same age group. In Dec 2004 My husband, son and I took them to Paris, Montreux Switzerland, Venice, Florence and Rome. We had an incredible time and spent and 3-4 nights in each location except Montreux. Their favorite city was Rome because of the energy, architecture, history etc.

I think in your situation, Paris, Florence or Venice might be good ideas.

Well - since you say thy're high maintainance I would suggest a couple of things:

Work with them but have THEM pick the desinations based on what they want to see most (otherwise you'll be hearing but I really wanted to see the blot). Bring them lots of brochures, look at web sites with them etc so you all agree on the must sees.

Suggest a hotel rather than an apartment (less work for you, they can have a meal in if they want - and you will have the support services of the staff and concierge in meeting their needs)

Plan on traveling by cab to save their energy for the things they really want to see

I would not worry about the frenzy part - as long as you're in Western or Central europe you can have the resources to unfrenzy them (would not reco Russia or other eastern areas with less sophisticated tourist infrasructure)

I would not try to tie them down to a cruise - or anything long-term - but leave as much freedom as possible so they are IN CONTROL (that's what was wrong with the tour, along with the specific issues - and a cruise would be the same problem)

I'm 69 and husband just turned 80. The past two years we've been to London and Paris. We've visited each several times in the past... but there is something to be said for being older and just slowing down and smelling the roses. I'd opt for Paris. ( Simply because the prices in London might send your parents into cardiac arrest when they convert pounds into dollars - There is soooo much to see and do in Paris. Maybe we just appreciate it more now that we're older. We stayed in the 7th (twice in the last two years)...and the last time El Husband visited a real estate agency looking at properties. Dream on....

One more vote for Vienna. A great public transportation sytem, impressive architecture galore, great museums of all kinds (I particularly enjoyed the musical instrument museum). Relax in the cafes - enjoy a wine garden or two.

Heck I want to go back NOW.

70 + parents.

How the heck did you get that many parents?

fishee,
I, too, think Vienna would be a good choice.

>>>they tend to associate Europe with high art, high culture, "famous" stuff<<<

Vienna can be fancy and high brow. The Imperial Apartments "Sissi Museum" and Imperial Treasury at the Hofburg would be enjoyable for them. Of course, the Kunsthistorishes Museum is wonderful, but enormous. The Belvedere might be a good alternative (or addition) as it is easily doable in much less time for people who may tire.

I agree with the posters who suggested taxis and, of course, separate rooms.

I really hope your trip works out for you. One of my greatest regrets is not traveling with my mother. WHile we've both traveled in Europe, we never had the opportunity to go together. She can no longer travel but so enjoys hearing about my trips.

Looking forward to hearing what you decide.

Some of this might depend on where I can get two award tickets for October. (I'll purchase my own ticket to ensure I'm on the same flight) Paris or Vienna -- I figure it shouldn't be too hot or cold during that time?

I appreciate the comments about the uneven pavement in Rome -- my mom has fallen when coming down the stairs on a smaller RJ and my dad has broken his toe in the hotel room when they were in Hawaii.

I can't believe I'm considering doing this... If I get through it, I'll have the basis for a screenplay.

I agree with the people who suggested asking your parents where they want to go.

Nearly every year since 1998 or so, my mom and I have taken a trip together. We've been to many of the standard destinations in Europe. Of these I think her favorite is Switzerland (we stayed in Muerren), and she still talks fondly of the Amalfi Coast even though I made her do the insane thing of going to Amalfi and then Pompeii later that same day.

I don't think anyone has mentioned Switzerland yet. My mom is much more fond of nature than I am. She also enjoyed the Norway in a Nutshell trip. We also just went to Australia.

I guess this won't fit with wanting to see "impressive architecture and famous paintings," but you never know.

I'm thinking of going to the Italian Lakes with her on a future trip. Neither of us has been there.

We almost always quarrel on our trips together, but I guess I still end up taking her somewhere every year. The reality is that she really is very easy going, and I'm also realizing that I should travel with her when she can still do so.

I had to smile reading this, as it made me feel good about myself! I'm 70+ (71)and have taken trips to Europe almost twice a year for the past 10 years - most solo, and not on tours. I had done tours when I was younger, and like your parents, felt too rushed. I've throughly enjoyed 2-week trips to London and Paris. And during the past several years have done 2 weeks each driving around Burgundy, Provence, Dordogne, Alsace and Loire Valley, and am going to Normandy in April. I've vaguely considered asking my "high maintenance" daughters along, but
reconsidered!

Anyway, I'm sure your parents would love a week's stay in Paris, especially your mother. There is so much to do, and daytrips (say, Versailles) are easy to do. Keep it low-key and easy and I'm sure you'll all have a wonderful time.

We are in our early 70's and have traveled independently for the last 25 years in the UK, France and Italy. We like to stay for a few weeks in cities, getting to know them or for a shorter time in smaller towns-on the French Riviera or the Amalfi Coast-where public transportation is fairly good. Never did like driving in these places too much, especially on the left side. Last year, for the first time, we took an organized tour. It was a Tauck tour of Britany, Normandy and the Loire, with Paris at the end. It was a wonderful, beautiful and well planned tour. Everything is done for you and you still get quite a lot of free time. It is a high end company but first rate if you care to go that way. We were lucky enough to have a great group and leader. There were several other couples our age.

We are in that age bracket and I wish our son would offer to take his parents on a cruise up the Rhine, through the Main/Danube Canal and down the Danube to the Black Sea. We will settle for only going as far as Vienna or Budapest.

They can see 7 or 8 European countries from a comfortsble deck chair, with-out getting sea sick.

Well I am a 70+ parent and if my son tried to tell me where to go, I would reciprocate rather vigorously. But, he would not "tell"; he would ask us first where we might like to go!!

I have several comments to make, like you make your parents sound like they have no idea about where they would like to go and were it not for you, they would flounder interminably.

Noble thought, but are they really that out of it? By the time I get back to Europe this year I will be 74, with an artificial hip, and arthritic knees.

Despite my senior status, I know where I want to go, and my wife concurs because I have asked her, until she was tired of concurring!!

I think an apartment in Paris would be a good idea. In fact, I had one lined up for all 6 of us (the senior Browns, son, daughter-in-law, and 2 teenaged grandsons.) The plans fell through because of grades; summer school looms like a specter.

Munich is a good place to visit. I will be there for a few days in August. And I will tell you now that if your Dad likes to play golf, the Margarethenhof Golf Club on the Tegernsee is a lovely place with a 4 star hotel and a good if not great restaurant.

Salzburg is good for a slow paced visit.
Vienna is the same. Lots to do, and no particular hurray to "see it all" because you cannot.

I think it all depends on what they like. The last time we were in Vienna, we attended 3 operas in 4 days and enjoyed all of them greatly. We also went to the other sights as well that have been previously mentioned.

My favorite place of all, however, is Switzerland. We rent an apartment by the week in Lauterbrunnen and ride all over the place on trains, buses, and cable lifts. One can argue the merits of Wengen versus Mürren versus Lauterbrunnen versus Grindelwald versus Interlaken. All have good and bad points. We have a good set up where we go and "we know the drill" so that minimal time is wasted getting set up.

We also know where we want to go and what we want to see before we get there. Like last year, we finally got what we wanted in Zermatt: A clear day. We drove to Täsch, got the shuttle train, and walked to the cable lift to the Klein Matterhorn for a stupendous day of gazing. At last, a fully clear look at the Matterhorn, the Dom, and all the way to Mont Blanc!!

This year, after Switzerland, we will take a short tour of Scotland with Back Roads Touring.

Back Roads does small group tours and I have gone with them twice in the past, both times to Wales. We got our money's worth both times. The tour of South Wales had 6 people total, and we were able to discuss what we wanted to do each day, within the parameters of the tour guidelines. Each day was full and there were none of these absurd commercial stops to take an "optional" tour at extra cost. (For reasons like that Insight will never see me again.)

I think my conclusions are these:
Many good ideas have been discussed and all should be taken into account. I do, however, have one final comment: If, you were my son, I would strongly recommend that you first ask Dad and Mom what they wanted. They might not be as senile as you make them out to be.

I have no doubt that many of you who regularly give me great travel advice might be in your 70's.

But trust me, y'all are NOTHING like my parents. I'll share an illuminating detail of their group tour experience: At one point, the guide was so irritated/angry with my dad that he ordered that the bus stop and he and my dad got out and started to get into a physical fight on the side of the road. My mother sat on the bus wringing her hands and tried to not die of embarrassment.

This is not the most mortifying moment of their trip -- just the most succinct and illustrative.

I'm not kidding. I really wish I were.

And you are considering taking them on this trip - why???????

>the guide was so irritated/angry with my dad that he ordered that the bus stop and he and my dad got out and started to get into a physical fight ...<

How old was the guide?

Given your story above, that makes my rec for Vienna even stronger, as it's a city where it would easy for your parents to venture out on their own to many of the sites close at hand. Which means you wouldn't have to be together all day when friction could develop. I also think seeing so many other people in their age group enjoying the city would increase their confidence level to explore independently.

However, I would urge you to pick a good four-star hotel that can give you separate rooms or a room for you and a mini-apartment for your parents. There are many good 4-star hotels in central Vienna, including family owned hotels like the Kaiserin Elisabeth and solid, full-service chain hotels like the Marriott. And of course, the five-star palace hotels (if your budget runs to those) who are used to demanding guests.

If this is a summer trip, however, make sure you pick a hotel with AC (and AC in the rooms, not just the public areas). Vienna can be quite warm and muggy in the summer.

If your father is that combative/difficult I have a couple of comments.

Has he always been like this or is this something new? It's true that some people are difficult their whole lives. But if this is new it may well be a sign of approahing dementia (patients become so frustrated that they are confused but don;t know what's wrong that they act out like toddlers). If this is the case, he really needs an evaluation by an MD (who has been prepped with all of this info.)

If he's been like this his whole life - all the more reason to have them make the decisions on where to go/what to see, to stay in a hotel not an apartment, and to make it easy for them to go off on their own at times (so you don;t end up in a fistfight with him).

...and please let us know what your itinerary is so we can stay away!

I NEVER said this trip was going to be easy...

He's always been combative (although apparently so was the tour guide) but it's the worst under the following conditions:

1. when he thinks he's being taken advantage of
2. when he's uncertain and feels a lot of pressure to make the right decision -- then feels like he's screwed up.

They're my parents -- what'cha gonna do? I don't ever travel with them -- but if I can endure one trip with them before they pass and some good experiences can come out of it (for them and myself) it's worth doing once. I also don't like punishing my mom for his behavior which has happened for decades now -- but he'd never stay home while we took a trip together.

If I can coordinate a trip that will greatly minimize the 2 above conditions, he will be much more mellow. He trusts me to a large degree -- that I know what I'm doing, that I find good deals, that I can finesse social situations that they aren't comfortable in (like a nicer restaurant where we'd have to order in French or Italian). He feels like they're treated more respectfully when I'm present (they're immigrants with heavy accents).

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I'm going to call them this weekend and get some feedback on this.

I don't know, Fishee, but do you really think your dad will enjoy a trip abroad?
So many things can go wrong on a trip, and when a person is that inclined to "blow up" - well, you know what I mean. Your poor mother - can't you arrange to just take HER? From what you've said, probably not, but I wish you could!

They've gone on cruises (had some complaints but they still did it again) and int'l trips back to Asia, and I remember going on 2 week road trips every single summer when I was little so I know they like to travel. (Plus they're really bored at home -- all they do is watch tv)

I wish I could just take my mom too - but after he retired there's no excuse. Back then, I was in no position to take my mom to Europe so that never happened, but she liked it when I'd just take her to a Mexican restaurant.

I just mentioned Paris to my parents and they're really excited. My mom said the tour breezed right through and they didn't see anything.

I'm thinking of this 2 br apt although I'm wondering what you think of the area?

http://www.parisianflat.com/rent-a-parisian-flat-7-casimir-perier-invalides.html

Is there an "ideal" neighborhood for older "non-adventurous" tourists? Saint Germain may be too busy for them and I figure the Marais is too young. They may like something near the Eiffel Tower, perhaps.

Also, this is a lot to ask, but is there a running list of metro stations that are "better" for elderly tourists? I.e. not too deep underground, few or no stairs?

Hi F,

If Paris is the place, I suggest the Bonaparte.

I don't think that the 6th will be too busy for them.

My mother was 88 when she went with us and stayed there.

You might want to consider 2 rms instead of a triple.

The metro stops near the Bonaparte are only about 12 steps down, walk a short distance and then another 12 steps.

There is also bus service at Place San Sulpice.

I was going to second the Italian lakes idea, but as you are now thinking about Paris, that seems agood idea too.

Normally I would always go for an apartment with family, but a mid-high end-hotel might be better in your case - a good conciege can arrange a lot of things, advise on trips, travel arrange cabs - could make your job a lot easier.

As usual, Ira's ideas are spot on - just lsiten to him and you can't go far wrong.

Good luck!

Portugal or Maderia

In light of your description of your parents' limitations, I can't imagine taking them to Paris for a week. There's too much walking required, and it is sometimes almost shorter to walk than to take the Metro. You've received excellent advice as to the destination of Vienna. The main sites are pretty close together and the entire city has a much calmer feel to it than Paris, which we found to be at least as hectic as Rome. We also found Paris to be overrun with tourists when we were there last year. That said, I went with my mother and aunt, who are 74 and 68, respectively. But Mom held down a job part-time until two years ago and does Pilates and/or gym workout every day, and my aunt is as spry as a 30-year old. Although Mom was excited to be there the first three days, on the fourth day she was ready to go home -- found the city to be too busy. Not the first place I'd choose to take parents "who have a rather anxious disposition."

Thanks everyone -- I'll send them a Vienna DVD and see what their response is.

Do you think it might be easier for me to find FF tickets to Vienna? It would be great if I could find them a direct flight, one of the attractions of CDG.

But you're right, I should think of the convenience and ease of 7 days of sightseeing rather than being so concerned about a few additional hours in an airport.

My vote was going to be for Vienna, along with the many others that were of the same opinion, but having read about your father's unfortunate disposition, I'm not sure Vienna is ready for him. Have you thought of doing a European bus tour? It sounds like it might be the ideal way of reducing any stress.

Fishee,I'm sure you won't regret traveling with your parents and it sounds like your Mom will really be appreciative and you will really be happy you did it. As for your choice of the two bedroom apartment--- We have not stayed there but have viewed it and it is as shown. The managers were really nice to deal with. Our dates did not work out and then we decided that the public transportation was too limited so we didn't stay there.It was on busline #69. It is not as close to the metro as it seems and is only on one bus line. That area is surrounded by many government buildings and it will be very quiet if that is what you want. I would search for an apartment towards Ave de la Bourdonnais/Bosquet area. The sidewalks are wide and there are lots trees and they may want to stroll in the evening and watch the Eiffel Tower twinkle. There is a metro stop on Motte Picquet near Ecole Militaire and you have access to bus lines 28, 80,82,87, 92 and 69 in this area. We have stayed with www.parisperfect.com many times but if this is more that your budget will allow we had great luck with www.parispiedaterre. and The owners are so nice. They have a two bedroom apartment on rue du Champ de Mars. Also www.rentalfrance has some two bedrooms in that area. We have not rented from them. There are MANY reasonable restaurants in this area and you have the Avenue Saxe market on Thurs and Sat mornings as well as grocery stores and the much written about rue Cler. There is a wonderful bakery on the corner of Avenue Bosquet and rue Champ de Mars. Have a great trip and let us know where you decide to go.

Anyone have a suggestion for a particularly good Austria travel DVD? I think it's a good idea to consider a side trip to the countryside although driving with them is a bit difficult. If we can take a train somewhere easily, I might consider that.

thanks again!

I get videos of Rick Steves' TV shows from my public library. As I remember, his Vienna show included a trip (by boat on the Danube?) to Melk and the abbey there. Don't know if a climb was involved.

Topping for update from fishee

lucy, thanks for asking. I was hoping to have enough FF miles to fly them in business class, but with a trip cancellation I've come up a bit short for miles. I'm going to ask them if they'd rather go this year in economy or next year in business class.

Parents are sounding very partial to Vienna and they want to do some day trips as the crazy dad gets restless. I really appreciate the advice on this one because Vienna would have never been on my radar.

My mom still wants to actually "see" Paris but my Dad grumbled that when they were there several years ago on the group tour, it hadn't changed much in 30 years (he was there for a few days in 1968) so what's the point. Isn't that hilarious?

Hope it works out for all involved! I can relate to your father. My mother always asks me why I don't take travelers checks when I travel since all the hotels in London and Paris cashed them for her... in 1984, 1986 and 1989.

Keep us posted.

Did I miss an explanation for why you can't rent a car? Having a car, even for only a few days, opens up the possibilities for a much less stressful trip (for everyone).

Vienna, Paris and Amsterdam would be my choice and fly to vienna then overnight sleeper train to paris then high speed train to amsterdam then fly home. This over a 3 week period would be great
http://www.seat61.com/Austria.htm

Just curious - how old are you and do you have other siblings? Would it be just the three of you traveling? Also where do your parents live? - big city area or rural? These may have an impact the significance of the level of franzy in an area - ie if they are in a small town then being in a large city is more hectic than if they now live in a large metropolitan area. Before you travel any where with your parents, for your sake and theirs - do not look at this as a something to be survivied or that is what the trip may become - your mental attitude is important. I am not as old as your parents and I do not care for tours and am now only going on my second cruise this summer ( one more try ) - I did not like the cruise life which for me was quite like a tour - on the bus off the bus or on the boat off the boat. For some people it is a comfort but for others it is an irritant. We did a bus tour in Hawaii last month and by the end of the day all I wanted was to be off the bus away from the bossy guy and I am not high maintenance. The last 15 years of my Mom' s life I traveled with her and they are some of my most treasured memories. As Americans we tend to want to see too much in too little time and from my Mom I learned that the sights do not have to be impressive to be memorable. the slower pace of life can be better because there is less confusion. I learned to pace my travels with Mom with what she would enjoy. I would always give her suggestions and let her " own " the decision of where we would go. If your parents did not like a tour telling them where to go then you may be setting yourself up as the family tour which won't be any better and you're related so the complaing will not be tempered - it could be another disaster if you "own" the tour - let them make decisions about the trip - that is empowering - they may be older but they can think - let them be a part of the process. Just a thought. If the want different places - then split the time and let your Dad find those place they did not see in 68. ONce we had an idea of where we would go then I would do research and present her with a tenative schedule and ask her to fix it so it would work for her. Then I would research again and set up a trip bookso she could think about where she would be going and what she would be seeing before she got there - helps with the confusion and she could anticipate her trip which for many is part of the enjoyment. We stay in apratments whenever possible - more home likeand more space. also it is sometimes nice to have familiar food once a day and not eat always in restaurants even if it is only toast and coffee. You say they like TV - ask them if they can find anything on the travel channel that is interesting - gives them something to think about. They may discover something they would like to do which has nothing to do with the more traditional cities. If you don't care where you take them then that would not make a difference. There is an art to allowing your parents to have control of the decisions while in the background you do all of the work to facilitate a smooth trip by doing your homework with good accomodations - the people on this board are awesome for that - facilitated transportation - wheel chairs if they need them in the big airports or carts to get from point a to b. Simple food decisions - older people tend not like dark noisy restaurants and like to eat at more regulated times because of years of routine. after so many days of eating out - I want something familiar even now. I live in an adult community filled with folks your parents age and they run circles around me - I am in my 50's but there are others who find fault with everything. I wish you luck with your trip and go back and read the post from Bob Brown - he has many good insights throughout his post. Cherish this time with your folks - do not dread it - life is too short.

"they're immigrants with heavy accents".

Where do they come from? Would they enjoy a trip back to their country of origin?

"Immigrants with heavy accents" - must be Texas then

Cruise!!! You could enjoy yourself too.

Since you said "it might be their last major trip," make it Paris. Your mother deserves to experience Paris properly at least once in a lifetime (the rushed group tour doesn't count).

I don't know if things have changed in Paris, but it seemed every Paris restaurant's toilet was down a long flight of stairs. This could be a problem to consider.

I have to comment. You are very nice and loving to plan a trip for high maintenance parents. My parents were extremely high maintenance; I took a trip with my mother once , only three days to San Francisco, and it was an extemely LONG trip, but then I was never very assertive about expressing myself when either of them became difficult. Good luck to you all. P.S. I'd go with the apartment idea in Paris. It would give everyone the most freedom. You would be able to spread out. It's more relaxing than a small hotel room. And if food is an issue for anyone, they would be able to control it better. My father loved strolling through supermarkets both at home and while traveling. You, also might consider a smaller French city like Lyon where you get some of the Paris feeling without the crowds. Lyon is very comfortable to move about and has more than enough to occupy one leisurely for a week. And if one were feeling adventuresome, you could spend a day driving to Burgundy or even closer to Lyon, Beaujoulais' small villages. Again, good luck.

P.P.S. I, also like the Vienna idea.

www.chinafocustravel.com
Dirt cheap HC 12/13 day first class tour.
We are not tour group folks, but this is NOT to be missed.
M

Paging fishee... Any new developments or decisions? Keep us posted.

How about Venice, so long as you go when there is an R in the month.
It's a city that everyone should see at least once.
I find it very relaxing and I'm pretty close to your parents' age.

Yes, please fishee, don't leave us hanging!! What did your parents decide?

My parents at 82 and 70 really enjoyed Rome and Siena - both accessible by train and other public transport.

I took (as in organized but did not pay for) my mother (now 75 - age between 70 and 75 at the time) to London, Paris, Sedona/Grand Canyon, Asheville. While she is a great person, being with her 24/7 drove me up the wall. I have a low annoynce tolerance and that much togetherness really pushed all my buttons for getting irritated. I wish you luck but don't envy you!! I think London and Paris were just too big and busy for her and she didnt' like the food at all. She had the best time in Sedona which was small and slow in pace. I would try to include countryside/small town in the mix

Dad now wants to go to China, mom not thrilled with the idea but he usually gets his way. This might change things a bit since I don't have any clue about navigating through China and it would take a lot more research and time for me to work out a trip.

I'm tempted to just get their award tickets and let them sign up with a group tour which they seem totally willing to do (I almost hit the floor when they said they'd do another group tour). I didn't mention the roadside fistfight or the other "kinks" they ran into on their last group tour... oy vey.

Is it totally orientalist for me to be feeling overwhelmed by the prospect of planning a trip to China? Dad sounds like he wants to visit several different areas which is a way more stressful and hectic itinerary than settling into an apt in Vienna or Paris for a week (which is more what I had in mind and thought I could handle).

China! Wow. Good luck with that.

Is there any possibility they would consider Singapore as a substitute? I know it's not as exotic as China, but it's still quite interesting (my husband lived there for several years) and would be much easier for your parents to manage....they could probably get by on their own (although it is very warm and muggy, if they're sensitive to heat, it's probably not for them). Most people speak English and it's very clean. However, they're not going to see "famous painting that they've only heard about or have seen in books." They could combine Singapore with a luxury train ride to Bangok.
http://www.orient-express.com/web/eoe/journeys/3_7140.jsp

Although I still think Vienna is the *best* fit for your parents, Singapore might be the easiest intro to the Far East for them.

I don't know if you've said when you're planning the trip, or if you're set on paris or china, can I throw Barcelona in the air? I man if they've already been to Paris anyway, this is one of the best cities (cultural city of Europe) to get a real feel for spain.

Stuff they'd like:
Picasso museum
daytrip to Figueres to the Salvador Dali museum (he designed it)
Gaudi architecture, incl. Sagrada Familia cathedrale and casa Batllo and Guell parc.
Miro foundation gallery
Flamenco
Montjuic, by cable car or ferrocarril, which has a war museum in the fortress(great inquisition paintings and swords) and brilliant views of the city.
The port and seafood restaurants with paella.. nice beach walks etc.
las ramblas and gotico, ancient roman architecture and gothic cathedral, with antique markets (at the minute)
little winding streets in gotico
jump-on-jump off tour bus which takes you around the city, visting places like the aforementioned and the olimpic stadium area, as well as poble espanol (old-style village) and Plaza España which has amazing fountain displays at the weekend.

Barcelona is small for a city and yes, the metro is quite close to street level. taxis and metro and bus are all quite cheap.
Have a look at the pictures and area info : http://www.way2stay.com/Barcelona-apartments-en-52.html
This is also a great group to get your 2 bedroom apartment with.
here's a nice 1st floor apartment:
http://www.way2stay.com/Barcelona-apartments-en-52-194.htm


This city is absolutely beautiful, it still stuns me every day.
Very grand balcony facades on the main avenues like Passeig de Gracia and those in Eixample.
it's getting hot for the summer but if you're planning for later in the year, like sept/oct maybe, its still lovely and warm and sunny.with less tourists.
When are you going?
Get them here to the mediterranean!

Consider a European river cruise, possible with Grand Circle Tours. They're very relaxed--no changing hotels--but cover quite a lot of ground. Sightseeing is included, as are all meals in the excellent restaurants aboard.

My aunt and uncle went to China when they were that old or older, and had a good time. For that location, I think you must do a tour (at least in this case). There are some very good ones to China, I've read a lot of positive things about a couple of them (on Frommers or somewhere).
Why don't you go to Frommers and search their China forum and their past articles, you will probably find some. I think Pacific Delights was one I remember, and maybe Smartours.

This is their page with mentions of tour groups and comments
http://www.frommers.com/destinations/china/3330023531.html

Actually, I didn't think renting an apt. in a foreign country for people who are anxious and high-maintenance was a very good idea.

Fishee, you are so sweet to want to take your parents! I agree with those who think they (esp. your father) should be in on the decision-making. Is your mother enthusiastic about China? It would be nice to have them both enthusiastic, although it sounds like you and your mother will have a better time if your father is happy.

I am casting my vote for Vienna because it's beautiful and the old part of the city is compact. It's very easy to walk around and there is a lot to see, as well as lovely towns outside the city which are easy to reach by train or by boat on the Danube. I love the food and the coffee house culture.

I think you should get 2 rooms in a nice hotel-- I love the Alstadt but it might be too out of the way for them. The Konig von Ungarn is very popular and looks really nice. Staying in an apartment would be too confining for me; you will want your space!

I've flown on Austrian Air to Vienna a couple of times and it is a nice airline, and Vienna has a very manageable airport.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Topping for update from Fishee.

Ireland. No stressed out frenzy. Anywhere. Ireland is full of beauty, history, and the nicest people you can ever expect to meet.

Yes, it would be interesting to know what was decided. Being of the age of the "elderly parents" I am feeling pretty good about us!!
Personally I would take them back to Paris and have a wonderful relaxed time. I would also get two hotel rooms and NOT an apartment. This way the front desk gets to give advice, the breakfast is what the hotel serves, etc. Paris is such an "accessible" city with walking, buses, and Metro. Hire a guide like Michael Osman to show the little hidden things and especially for the museums.
Maybe take a couple of days and drive through Normandy on one or the other end of the trip.
If they get stressed easily, simplify the trip. A good guide will do that. Stopping often just to people watch? Paris!
We just took our grandchildren on a dinosaur "hunt" in Colorado--70 can be the new 50!!

Personally, fishee, I would stand up for your mother. Take her to Paris, then let your father decide if wants to tag along. He sounds rather abusive and controlling.

My favorite travel journalist is Rudy Maxa. He is certainly finds the classiest things to do in the destinations he reports on. If you have high definition channels, he is on public television's high definition channel.

He has certainly done videos for Paris, Vienna, and all great European destinations. And, he has a new series of videos of the Pacific Rim--Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, Hawaii, Western Canada, etc.

Click on one of these two links to for more info:

http://www.rudymaxa.com/television.php

http://www.travelvideostore.com/index.php?cPath=1631&ref=115110&page=1&sort=4a

Fishee: how does the story end? There I was happily rooting for Paris/Mom and then noticed the date...I can really relate to the difficult Dad syndrome (wondered if you were my long lost sibling at one point!), but we all went to Paris with my Dad and had a great time. Saved Rome for my Mom who was way more go-with-the-flow..

Hello. What about a river cruise in Europe? There are many cruise lines with a variety of "comfort levels" and many different routes. I did one last year on a solo trip and thoroughtly enjoyed it, it's great having to only unpack one time, nice food and I met some very nice people. Another advantage would be the fact that at each "port" you are provided with tour options or the have the option of just staying aboard and relaxing. There are some great cruises out there.

Hope this helps.
Susan

Oh my gosh, didn't notice that this post was from January o7, and didn't scroll down. Definitely a "blond" moment.
S

I am 70+ and my wife needs two new knees. So, for low stress, and a place with many people-carrying facilities that lead to beautiful views, I suggest Switzerland. Rent an apartment to have a home base, and enjoy the views.

My sister in law is 72 and will walk part of the Camino de Santiago next year. My cousin's in-laws are in their seventies and stll go on adventure trips.

Fishee asked about metro stations. PLEASE, Fishee, get a bus map and use the buses. They are SO much nicer, and unless you are going from A to Z, it is better than the Metro.
And they go between areas that the Metro requires you to transfer, and all that jazz. BUSES in Paris ROCK.

I do not think independent (outside a tour) is a good idea to China. It is possible, but for the "young".
Your father needs to be more grateful and less demanding and more thoughtful of his wife--since she want to go to Paris..
AND I willtell you from experience, tourism in China is VERY demanding physically--tour or no tour. I can no longer do it. I have been twice.

thanks for asking, I've been off the forum except for a few posts in the last 4 months.

Good news: I have 185,000 miles now, which I think is enough to fly them business class.

Bad news: Nothing decided yet about their destination.

I sent them 2 Europe to the Max DVD's -- Beautiful European cities or something like that, one specifically on Germany and Austria, etc. My mom said they enjoyed the Vienna one and I said great, I'll start looking into it! And she says (in Korean), "Well, maybe we should go somewhere else since we pretty much saw everything on the DVD". (me taking a deep breath and banging the phone against my forehead)

They've agreed that China might be rough on them. My dad flew to NY from SFO over the summer and he said he couldn't believe how exhuasted he was by the flight. I'm a little worried about that. I was thinking maybe I could fly them to Chicago, and they stay with me a day (or two?) and then we leave together to W. Europe for an 8 hr flight. I'm hoping if they fly in Business class (with me stuck in the back in coach, sniff, sniff) that it won't be as bad for them but I don't know if I'm being too optimistic. If 4 hrs in coach tired my dad out, I'm a little concerned. This may factor into the destination since I think I should consider only booking non-stop flights and if I'm flying on American, that gives me only a handful of cities in W Eurpoe. Is it easier to break up a long flight with a lay-over or is it better to just get it over with in one long shot?

They are being so indecisive about the destination, it's driving me nuts. My mother mentioned Australia or N. Zealand but I think that's a very long flight. I wish I could just grab my mom and head to Paris -- that would certainly be the easiest thing for me...

Get them more DVDs and treat yourself to a FC trip to any destination you want to go.

You may have the miles but you may or ay not be able to get the flight. Get a bead on a flight to Paris and tell them that is where they/we all can go.
THEN plan a nice trip with some nice meals. They haven't really seen Paris.
Arrange a day trip to Giverney by a small bus tour.

Hi fishee, I couldn't read all the previous recommendations, but my parents are similar ages and sound just like yours. In the past, they loved the lake region of Switzerland. The area of Locarno I think was their favorite. My mother's favorite city was Vienna. She would return in a heartbeat. They have talked about doing a Rhine River Cruise to see more and not have to pack and go.
My parents don't care for the tour of seeing 5 countries in two weeks. My mother's favorite part of being in Vienna, having coffee while people watching.
The also loved London and the countryside in England. So, good luck and I agree with above. Hotel is the only way to go for parents who like high end, and get two rooms!

My parents are in their 80's now and have been to Europe a number of times to different countries each time. They are healthy but not very active and tire easily.

They have decided on a river cruise for their next trip. They have never wanted to do a 'cruise ship' cruise however. I think the smaller scale of the river cruise is more appealing to them.

re paris: as mentioned, most restaurants have put their miniscule toilet room in the basement.. so be prepared.

i also recommend vienna and/or a train trip in switzerland.

also consider the italian lake district by car. i drove my mom around the mosel and the rhein.. and it was a lot of fun. she also has issues, and london and paris went alright, but our later driving tour was the best ( off season).

don´t even think of taking them on many different trains if they cannot handle their own luggage.

i believe in switzerland you can still pay extra and send bags on ahead?

good luck.

i think it is a good idea for them to have a stopover in chicago. even if it is under the 24 hours so it doesn´t count as a stopover. anything will help take off the heaviness of the long flights.

My father was very high-maintenance, also, so I can relate to this. I think the plane ride will probably be okay if you have a layover. Then, if they are in business that really helps a lot, believe me. At least they may get some rest that way. Also, part of the fatigue on the 4-hour trip may have been because he was doing it all on his own, so if you are there, that relieves some of the stress and work.

If they are thinking about very long trips to Australia and New Zealand, I wouldn't worry too much. It sounds like they just prefer some place other than Europe, to be honest, and have an attraction to Asia/Pacific. If they are Korean, that isn't too surprising. Most people like Paris, though. I don't know about Switzerland for this couple, definitely not what I would pick, although the scenery is beautiful, of course.

Um, not to be mean, but if you haven't decided on a destination in 9 months, you may need more help then what is available on a Fodor's forum.

I agree a bit with Robertino, but I think the problem is that your parents don't really want to go anywhere or don't care enough to focus on a destination. And, also not trying to be mean, I don't think you're really excited about taking them or you'd just set a decision deadline and put the wheels in motion.

I suggest you stop talking about it and see whether they raise the subject. If they do, let them direct the conversation and you just nod your head. Unless they "own" the idea of travelling to a particular place, they're not going to be happy and will probably blame you for taking them to the "wrong" place. Very passive aggressive -- my mother-in-law's forte.

Well, once early May passed, basically closing the window for summer travel, I felt like we were screwed for this year since I don't think they'll want to travel in Dec. (the only time I could take off 2 weeks after summer.)

So besides the DVD's I haven't done much to engage them since spring and to be honest, I've been so busy at work, I haven't thought much about this for months. I'll see what happens but thanks everyone for your feedback and thoughtful insights -- I hope we can pull this off.