Your husband was the hold out?
First, travel to three different countries and cost containment are incompatible. For that many people, an obvious way to contain cost is to stay in an apartment in one city.
Are you leaving 10/5 from Phoenix and flying back on 10/14? If that is the case, you will be arriving 10/6 which is probably only .5 day usable and probably flying back early on 10/14, so the last usable day is 10/13? Then you really have 7.5 days. 3 countries in 7.5 days is quite hectic and again you will be spending a lot in transportation without meaningful return. If you insist on two places, do as a multi-city itinerary to eliminate backtracking. You are short of time as is and really don't want to consume .5-1 day backtracking to the arriving city.

I'm sure we could help, but it would help us if you could clarify your budget a bit, and explain what it is that interests your family. You don't mention eating, except for breakfast, and that will add to your expenses unless you are all dieting.

First thing that strikes me is that you do not have three days in each of your target cities. The fifth through the 14th is only ten days. Subtract one day for going, one for recovering from jet lag, and another to come back, and you have seven days. Subtract almost another day for travelling to each new city, and you have five complete days for exploring.

Not enough time, and/or too many cities, IMHO.

My suggestion would be to pick one city, get an apartment that will fit you all to save money on both housing and food, and really explore that city. Any one of the ones you want to see deserves more than a day or two.

We are about to book an apartment for the first two weeks of October ourselves, and I'd suggest you get on the stick as many of the good ones are taken already.

Some starting places for you... you can do this all yourself.

Suggest you limit to two cities at the most - London and Paris. First night is an overnight flight and first day or two are lost to jet lag. Plenty to see in both and Rome is an overnight train from Paris or you consume at least 1/2 a day traveling by air. Picking one city would be ideal.

kayak.com to search for airfares. Don't get too excited though - a quick search shows $570 on KLM and $700 on Air France but when you click through to their websites the rates are at least $1000 all up.

Open-jaw tickets - consider flying in to one city and out of another if you go to multiple places. Phoenix to London and return Paris to Phoenix. That way you don't have to backtrack and usually you pay the average of roundtrip airfares to each city.

Consider renting an apartment - do searches here to get names of reputable apartment rental agencies. An apartment will provide better bang for your pound and Euro especially since you'd need two hotel rooms.

There is a wealth of info here - just start searching away!

nuke safe is right on. Follow that advice.

Agreed. Too many cities in too short of a time. With an adult family, including adult children, let the folks run amok in one of the cities.

My preference is Paris. It is far more diverse, in my opinion that London or Rome.

nukesafe - From Berkeley, the nuclear free city?

Thanks for the advice. Since this is a once in a lifetime chance because our kids are getting older (and as are we), I'd rather see more than one city. Of the three, London, Paris and Rome, which should be dropped? I'm hearing Rome. Do you all agree?

The cost of dinner, purchases, etc., will be on top of the $2300 per person. I'm hoping that the family will do as they usually do here....eat a large breakfast and then wait until dinner to eat.

When you search for plane tickets, you will see, in the search box, an option called multi-city. Click that before starting to enter your destinations. And as iowamom says, first you will see great numbers like $500, but that is ONE WAY, so don't get too excited.

Although London is a good place for newcomers from North America because of the language being the same, it is also the most expensive because of the cost of the English pound. So take that into consideration.

One way to look for apartments is to Google "vacation rentals" followed by the city name. When you find some apartments that look interesting, check back here and ask for advice, including the link to the apartment.

You might want to check out VRBO.com or London Connection rentals. Some of the rates are given in American dollars (some of the property owners live in America), but require 6 or 7 night stays. I rented a nice 2 bedroom, 2.5 bath flat in London for $1,200/week in March. Added bonus: a lot of these flats have washer/dryers. We also ate a big breakfast and had no problem waiting till dinnertime to eat again.

You might want to reconsider your choice of London for October. The weather can turn really nasty, cold, and damp that time of year, that far north. Paris will probably still be livable ( I hope so, as we will be there), and Rome quite nice. I'd drop London, but that is my personal choice.

Rastaguy, why do you think Berkeley is the "nuclear free city"?. I used to work at the Lawrence Radiation Lab on the hill behind the campus. What do you figure all those particle accelerators, and the Nuclear Chemistry building are there for? There used to be a research reactor on campus, and enough radionuclides up on the hill to make Berkeley glow.

I know the Lawrence Rad lab place very well, I'm just quoting a Berkeley ordinance, good or bad. Have your seen their street signs that say as much? If anything happens, it's in the Chronicle.

Ji...if you want to do Paris and London, go in to London and out of Paris. as Gardyloo has pointed out, the UK charges taxes of several hundreds of dollars for departure per ticket.

My choice is London and Paris, with the majority of the time in Paris. However, beware of London hotel pricing. Probably the most expensive in Western Europe for what you get.

Try www.venere.com to compare pricing and location in whatever cities you choose.

The weather can turn really nasty, cold, and damp that time of year, that far north.

That could be a description of London weather at ANY time of the year, so by that logic you'd never visit. As for "that far north", it's 200 miles from London to Paris so "that far north" isn't going to make much difference.

Since this is a once in a lifetime chance because our kids are getting older (and as are we), I'd rather see more than one city. Of the three, London, Paris and Rome, which should be dropped? I'm hearing Rome. Do you all agree?>>

i'd look at it the other way - your kids have to time to come to europe again, you may not. [though you can't be that old with kids their ages!] so what do YOU want to see?

apartments are definitely the way to go, especially with your needing 2 rooms anyway, and you will keep costs down by just picking one place. in November, that place for me would be Rome - Ok it could be cold there as well, but it is less likely.

and [and i know that I'm probably going to be flamed for this but i don't care] if you're thinking that you won't have enough to do there [unlikely, but possible] and that you and your husband won't be coming back to Europe for a while, why not fly into Venice, spend 3 nights there, then get the train to Rome?

that would give you this:

Oct 5th - leave home.
Oct 6th - arrive Venice. stay 3 nights.
Oct 9th - train to Rome. Stay 5 nights
Oct 14th - fly home.

to make this-or any other dual city itinerary - work, you need to do "open -jaw" aka "multi-city - into one place, out of the other.

happy planning!

I will be outvoted 100-1 but, if this really is a once in a lifetime trip, I would try and see three cities/places and go home exhausted. Paris, somewhere in Switzerland, and then Rome. Take the train. Families can have fun on trains.

And yes Switzerland is expensive but our family of 5 plus 1 rented an apartment in Zermatt for $250 a night in 2009.

I like Ann's idea of Venice as well.

Hi Lil,

>I was thinking of London, Paris and Rome, 3 nights each. <

Highly not recommended.
About 2 days of your trip will be lost to moving from one hotel to another.
That leaves you rushed for time in each of three cities, when you could enjoy yourself in two.

I would fly into London, take the train to Paris and fly home from there. You decide whether it should be 5:4 or 4:5.

Enjoy your visit.

Hi Cold,

>if this really is a once in a lifetime trip,...<

Every trip is a "once in a lifetime".

Unless someone has a terminal illness, there will be other "once in a lifetime" trips.

That's why we are suggesting that she slow down and enjoy two cities instead of rushing through three.

I have been to all 3, and I would choose London and Paris, or Paris and Rome.

For a once-in-a-lifetime trip, I wouldn't stick to one city. Two cities are definitely doable, and maybe all 3, particularly if you could squeeze in one more night: 3 nights each city, with a fourth night in London to adjust to time change, overcome jetlag, etc. It would be a whirlwind, but I've done whirlwinds and never regretted one of them.

If you do Paris and London, I recommend you fly into London, and take the Eurostar from London to Paris. It takes just under 2-1/2 hours. More convenient than flying, and around $60 one way if you book far enough ahead. (I don't think you can book London to Paris more than 120 days in advance). eurostar.com Check the Customer Care section at the top of the page, and then the Question and Answer section, which should explain any questions you have. (I say this because you said you are confused and at a loss as to how to begin planning this trip).

Also, most teens and twenty-somethings are whizzes at ferreting out info on the net, so maybe your kids can help you. They probably have certain things/sites they want to see/do that may be different from what you and your hubby are interested in, so getting them in on the planning would be a good idea. Not trying to be nosy or presumptious, just a suggestion.

Agree with ira's very reasonable suggestion, minimizes travel costs and time, moving directly from city center to city center. So much to see in both London and Paris, this would optimize your time.

Definitely choose 2 cities. You are traveling on something of a budget, both time and money-wise, so plan a trip that will allow you to enjoy the cities you visit. Four or five days is barely enough to get a taste of London and Paris.

You are probably considering this a "trip of a lifetime" as you may not have the chance to travel as a family again. But you all will probably be back.

Take a poll of the family to decide on the two cities. And definitely fly into London, train to Paris and home from Paris. Have a great trip.

P

People here almost always say slow down. Not sure how you can say there will be other trips. Lots of people only go once. We're not all "travelers".

Thanks to all for this wonderful advice. I really, really appreciate it. I love the suggestions so I thought it may be helpful to give more information about myself so that experienced travelers as you would be able to give me additional advice. With that, here's a little synopsis of my thinking...

The reason I say "once in a lifetime" is that it is hard to travel as a family once the kids are grown without bringing everyone and their brother. As it is, my son (24) wants to bring his girlfriend at his cost. She was in my count of the three kids. On top of that, I'm not in the greatest of health so I'm not sure if there will be another opportunity.

I queried my son and he thought London and Rome. However, I'm thinking London and Paris because of the advice about the train (versus flying to Rome). I love history (and I would have majored in it had I not been pushed into a more practical degree. I loved reading biographies of European royalty. I thought that it may be cool to see places like the Tower of London. If we stay a few extra days in Paris, perhaps we can visit Versailles.

On the other hand, I also dreamed for all of the kids' lives of taking them to Germany to see the castles as well as the sad impacts of WWII on a beautiful country. My father was in the infantry and he landed at Omaha Beach and then was in the Battle of the Bulge. We also lived there but it was before I was 7 so I don't remember a lot. I thought it may help them to understand my dad's life. (My mom was Japanese...we thought of Tokyo but decided against it.)

So...and this is going to get a lot of opinions I know, if you could go to any two European cities that are rich in history and things to see and do, where would you go?

Again, thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm listening to it all.

hi again,

thanks for your thoughtful response - yes it does help us if we know a little bit about you and the motivation for your trip. the bit about your family really helps to know what might interest you and the kids.

in fact you could possibly get to the WW2 beaches with your family if you took the Paris only, or London -Paris option. if you don't mind a really long day in a coach, you can see the beaches in a day trip from Paris - here's an example:

http://paristours.france.com/d-day_beaches_tours.php

Thanks, Ann. This forum is fantastic!

First let me say that you are very kind to allow your son to bring his girlfriend on your family trip, regardless of the fact he is paying for her. We always felt family trips were just for family.

You are going to get lots of suggestions for different cites to visit based on personnel interests but I think you should go with what you want to see. If you always wanted to see London, Paris and Rome, then that is where I would go.Fly into London, take the Eurostar to Paris and then take a flight or overnight train to Rome. It will be a hectic pace and more expensive to move around, but doable, if your health will allow it. Pick a couple major sites to see in each city and don't worry about not seeing everything.

When our kids were teens we took them to Europe for a two week whirlwind trip. That kick started a love affair with travel that has led them in the years since all over the world.

One site I did not see mentioned thus far is airbnb.com for apartment rentals. My husband and I have used vrbo.com many times for international rentals and our kids have had great experiences with airbnb.

Have a wonderful trip!

Lil,

Your additional details helped. If indeed

Sorry for the unfinished post. Meant to say if indeed this may be your only trip as a family, anyway to extend the length of the trip?

If not, I think with your interest in history, you would be more fulfilled with time to explore two places, but up to you.

Germany is another trip or a substitute for your current thinking.

The devastation of WWII isn't evident in what was West Germany, not so sure about former East Germany. What is evident is the amazing growth and re-build of post-war Germany.

I don't think you can book London to Paris more than 120 days in advance). eurostar.com

If you select US when initially entering the Eurostar website you can generally book longer than that in advance

The devastation of WWII isn't evident in what was West Germany, not so sure about former East Germany. What is evident is the amazing growth and re-build of post-war Germany.>>

cath - my recent trip to what was eastern Germany leads me to suppose that had you visited that region 20 or even 10 years ago, the devastation in places like Dresden ad Leipzig would have been all too obvious. However, since unification, a huge amount of work has been done to restore what was destroyed and improve what was not.

they are now fabulous places to visit, but possibly not quite what the OP has in mind for this trip.

We took a similar trip with our then 3 teens, and I highly recommend the London/Paris idea, starting in London, fly out of Paris. We also took a long day trip to see the WWII beaches in Normandy as Grandpa Jim had landed there, and it was perhaps the most memorable day of our trip. With your time frame, and the long distance flying from the west coast, this will actually give you a chance to unwind and enjoy the cities you are in. The chunnel was a cool experence for us too. Less can often be more. Save Rome for a trip when you can see more of Italy. There will be another trip, especially if you don't exhaust your husband on this one. Italy is romantic, go without the grown kids, we did.

There will be another trip, especially if you don't exhaust your husband on this one. Italy is romantic, go without the grown kids, we did.>>

lol, we took our kids to Italy several times and still managed to have a bit of romance....

your experience is interesting, st, and hopefully it will encourage the OP. could you post which company you did your D-Day beaches tour with?

You asked which cities are rich in history. ROME!! It was a rich developed city-state when Paris and London were small tribal camps! Italy was the birthplace of the Renaissance. What more can I say?

For ten days full of history, it would have to be Rome, Venice, Florence.
But you want royalty and castles, Which means Paris/London. The Louvre is the largest castle in Europe and although we beheaded our king, we've still got princes, dukes and barons with the added bonus of a DDay side trip.. In London you can walk up to the palace gates and even have tea in the orangerie of Kensington palace.

You indicated an interest in reading about European royalty. London and Paris are great for that. You can visit Windsor Castle or Hampton Court and Versailles. The Tower of London and the crown jewels are a great stop. A thought if you plan to visit the Normandy beaches. We took a trip to London, Normandy and Paris several years ago. We took the train from London and the ferry across at Dover, visited Normandy and then trained to Paris. Staying in Normandy for one night would allow you to avoid the long, long day trip. Bayeux is a lovely place to stay and convenient to the WWII beaches.

You have much to think about. Enjoy the planning and the trip.

Just an aside: If this really is the one and only time you will see Europe, I would recommend thinking about what is the one place you feel you must see before you die. You will want to have fond memories, not mad rushing from place to place memories.

We did not use a tour company, we rented a car in Paris and drove to Normandy, a very long day trip, but we stopped in Bayeaux,saw the tapestries, too. I can tell this story on myself now, but we were map reading, DH and I in front seat, well I was map reading, he was driving, teens squabbling in back seat, and I said "Bayeaux looks a big enough place for a late lunch." 13 yr old in back says " Bayeaux? We studied that this year, there's a very old tapestry there." So we drove there, parked, just barely found a place still open for a meal and saw the 'very old tapestry'. Serendipity traveling. DH, 13 yr old and I were mesmerized, 16 yr & 18 yr old less so, but that was pretty much the way our European adventure went with the older teens . That said, we have never returned to Europe with all of them together, but we all have traveled back many times. DH & I discovered Italy (6+tris),all 3 kids married and honeymooned in Italy, Denmark/Germany & Spain. Youngest studied in Siena, her brother and DH went to World Cup in Germany, so hopefully our England/France mini-adventure was the catalyst for all this.

Which is why I think the 1st trip is just that, the 1st trip.

Make it Paris and "somewhere" else. I still say that Paris is the bargain capital of western Europe. PLUS it is Paris.
I think it's great to bring the girlfriend. I assume she is a "live in" or how are you arranging the two rooms.
We took our kids when teens, and then again with spouses and the prospective fiancee!! Nothing more fun than traveling with adult children.
In Paris I REALLY recommend that you hire Michael Osman for at least a day and maybe two. Our family LOVED him and it took all the "guesswork" of what to do those days off of me (even though we have been to Paris many times--I was NOT the tour director, which with adult children is a good thing). He will be worth his weight in gold to you in knowledge, and fun. He is VERY reasonable for what he delivers.
I am not a fan of Rome--but I've been several times. And it's a "hike" to get there.
London is more accessible, but there will be some sticker shock there also.
Have fun!!

Wonderful suggestions. After hearing all of this, I think it will be London and Paris. I was thinking of 4 nights in London and 5 in Paris.

Thanks for Barblah for the suggestion about airbnb. I took a look at their site today and it looks great. I'll also check vrbo.com.

Thank you for the suggestion of Michael Osman, Gretchen. I'm going to see if he is available during our time in Paris.

Do you have a suggestion for a London guide similar to Michael?

London and Paris. There is such a wealth of things to do that I really think that trying for Rome too will just be too much - and this from someone who absolutely loves a different place every night. Given your circumstances though I just think you will all have a better time keeping it to two cities. Verseilles is wonderful but it will take a whole day and there is so much else in Paris. Good luck.

" I was thinking London, Paris, Rome-3 nights each"

This requires 3 flights plus one train trip

PHPhoenix) to LHR(London)
London to Paris (train)
CDG(Paris) to FCO(Rome)
FCO to PHX

When I searched on Orbitz I came up with $1245 using multiple destinations for 3 flights, multi airlines ( Delta, Alitalia, Air France, AA)

London to Paris (train) est. $100

3 nights will give you 2 1/2 days of touring. You will be able to have the following experience:

LONDON
Big red bus tour*
Tower of London***
British Museum***
Westminister*** Abbey,Tower Bridge,
St Pauls Cathedral**
Choose from
Buckingham Palace*
Trafalgar Square**
Piccadilly**
Tower Hill Pageant*
Hyde Park*
Harrods*
Pubs, Fish and Chips, English breakfasts

PARIS
Historic Paris walk-Ile de la Cite, Notre Dame***, Latin Quarter*, Sainte-Chapelle***

Louvre***
Eiffel Tower***
Champs-Elysees**walk-from Arc de Triumph*** to Tuileries Gardens
Orsay Museum***
Army Museum and Napoleon's Tomb**
Cruise the River Seine*

Choose from or substitute
Rodin Museum**
Pompidou Center**Sacre-Coeur and Montmartre**
Paris Sewer*
Continental breakfasts, caffes,French food-sauces, presentation

ROME
Night across Rome walk-Campo de Fiori,Piazza Navona, Trevi Fountain,Spanish Steps

Colosseum***,Arch of Constantine*

Roman Form***, St Peter-in-Chains Church*,Nero's Golden House, Palatine Hill, Mammertine Prison, Trajan's Column

Capital Hill/Museum**, Piazza Venezia, Victor Emmanuel Monument

Pantheon***
Spanish Steps*
St Peters Basilica*** Pieta***
Vatican Museum*** Sistine Chapel***
Churches*, Churches*, Churches*

Perhaps
Borghese Gallery***
National Museum***
Cappuccin Crypt*
Appian Way/ Catacombs**
Bathes of Caracalla
Continental breakfasts, pasta, pizza,cappuccino, gelato

What to budget(per person):
Airfare Getting there- $1245 includes 1 inter city flight
Train London to Paris-$100

Surface Transportation
LHR to London(bus)-$30
Paris to CDG(taxi)-$20 (sharing with 5 persons)
FCO to Rome (round trip)-$30

Intra city trasportation(buses, subways, taxis)-$10/day

Room (sharing with 1-2 persons)-$80/day/person

Food per person per day-Breakfast-$15(eat out or add to room cost), $20 lunch, $40 Dinner, $10 drink or ice cream during the day

Sight seeing and entertainment- Major sites $10-$15, minor sites $5-$10
Splurge experiences, concerts, broadway type shows $30-$50
Daily average $30.

If you decide on 2 cities you will save $100 on airfare/train fare

If you add a day in any city you can add a day trip such as:
London- Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwick Castle, Coventry Cathedral
Paris-Versailles
Rome-Naples/Pompeii
There will be additional costs.

You can add it up or modify per your specific itinerary and knowledge of your family.

An excellent licensed guide will cost you 160 to 180 euros per half day, 270-350 euros per day. You get what you pay for.

We just did three nights in Paris, four in Normandy doing the D-Day beaches and then three nights in the UK. We did the Battle of the Bulge on a previous trip. My Dad was in from North Africa to Anzio to the Battle of the Bulge. He spent time in Paris and Rome. I love Bavaria and you can do the train from Paris to Munich. If you do a night train it saves on a hotel and they have sleeping rooms that are reasonable. The cost in the Uk was much more. We stayed our last night at the Hilton Gatwick and took the train into London. Much cheaper. We love buying fresh fruit, cheese, bread etc and eating in. Lunch is best deal and we would have a light dinner in our apartment when we had an apartment. In the UK we had to eat out as we never even had a frig. I love using public transportation, We did rent a car for Normandy. Prices there were very reasonable compared to Paris.

flpab: my father was also in the battle of North Africa and landed at Anzio. But the rest of his war was spent in Italy.

Liljill8: you have plenty of information to get you started here.

I would check USAirways out of Phoenix if I were you. We find that they often have the best prices to Europe. If you do decide to go with them, which I mostly suggest because you are in Phoenix, we prefer to use their Charlotte hub rather than Philadelphia, although we use both regularly.

Once you get your air, post back with specific apartment/hotel needs, with separate postings for London and Paris. You will get good information here, and there is a fabulous thread for Paris apartments.

Then, we can help you with itineraries.

Good luck!

London / Paris it is!!!
Osman is probably great, but I think your budget is pretty tight and that money may be better used as emergency lunch money in case folks get hungry mid-day.
Once you have your air and rooms booked you'll know how much you have to play with for the rest.

We took our three children, plus one spouse and one fiancee, to Paris for a week in 2006, and it was our "trip of a lifetime". They were in their late 20s, and we still talk about it all the time. We rented an apartment, and It was wonderful to be able to go out for pastries in the morning and visit in the evening in a big living room. Everyone could go their own way - museums, shopping, whatever - and we were together for most meals and some day trips. Paris has so much to offer within a small area (considering how good the Metro is). We were lucky enough to have Michael Osman for one full day, and he was great!

I agree with others, London and Paris would be amazing. You'll have time to relax and enjoy both cities, with only a train ride between them.

Our rental was a three bedroom apartment on the gardens of the Palais Royal from www.parisvacationapartments.com. You usually have to rent for a week, but I do see a four night availability from October 10-13 ("St Germain Luxury two bedroom"), just in case those dates and budget work for you. It says it sleeps 4-6, so I'm guessing that the sofa opens into a bed. I cannot recommend the company highly enough, and this location is pretty amazing (Metro: St Sulpice).

I'm sure there are other apartments available, just echoing the advice of the others. Have a wonderful time! You're giving all of you a precious gift.

As for my recommendation of Michael, and there are many others here who also recommend him, he DEFINITELY delivers more than "what you pay for", and it is not close to the amount that the other person suggested, just as an FYI. I don't post his cost, because it is up to him to inform clients. Friends are using him later this month. He is much in demand so if you are going to contact him, do so as soon as your plans are made.
As for "saving that money for lunch money", if you want to optimize your comparatively short time in Paris, it's a GREAT investment to learn a LOT about Paris in a short time.
BUT everyone can make their own decision on that.
As someone else suggested, come back when you have your plans and get ideas for hotels--and meals.
consider a picnic on the Champ de Mars with the Eiffel Tower to view!!

If you're leaving on October 5, you'll arrive at your destination on Saturday, Oct. 6. Say you decide on London-Paris: Oct 6-7-8-9 in London, depart am of Oct 10th on the train to Paris. Then Paris Oct 10-11-12-13, departing the morning of Oct 14th.

Is this correct? If so, you actually have eight full days plus one half day in London, and the morning in Paris; four nights in each city.

Total budget is $2300 pp = $11,500. If airfare is $1250 x 5 = $6250, and Eurostar is $60 pp = $300, you now have just under $5000 for hotels and breakfasts. Figure $15 pp for breakfast, that comes to $75/ day x 8 = $600. OK, so say $4400 for hotels.

Divided by 8 nights for a hotel, that means about $550 - 600 TOPS. Euro is now about 1.27, but figure 1.3, gives you 425 euros/night, or 215 Euros/room, if one is a triple.

That's why some of us are saying, try an apartment if you can. For example, the PVA apt. I sourced above is $500/ night ($3500/week), and you have a whole apartment - with a place to eat, wash clothes (comes w/a washer and dryer), and gather together.

Lots to think about. Good luck and happy planning!

PS If you DO decide to go w/PVA, ask Alex if you can rent one of their London apartments for less than a week, if you're interested in going that route.

I love this forum...you took me from "Where do I begin?" to we're going to London and Paris, we're staying in apartments and we are going to start each segment with a private tour guide.

I'm going to now look at prices of flying. My husband swears that it is better to go with a package deal from Expedia. I had originally thought of one of the vacation companies and he's is now thingking that those may be alternative. My goal now is to show him whey the apartment route is the way to go.

Thank you all!

I have gone often to Europe and don't "want" to stay in an apartment. I was also one of the people who have taken adult children.
A hotel will let you have the services of the concierge. If your family is into "less than 16*--I do embellish), you can stay in an adequate hotel for less that X amount.
If your family is willing to stay in 2* or maybe some 3* hotels, you can really do well. If you can find an apartment for that price, go for it.
There are hotels in Paris--IBIS is one--that offer REALLY low cost, SMALL rooms, triple rooms. BUT you are sleeping there.
AND you still have the concierge. We did this on one trip and it worked out well.

If you do decide to choose two cities, considering the age of your kids, in my opinion London would definitely come first choice, then second Paris. They are the two cities with the closest distance, and I do totally agree with what many suggested that it might be best that you take train and then fly out from Paris. Alternatively you could low cost airlines.

I love London, its diversity, its chaos, even in rush hour lol, its museums (like the Science Museum and Madame Tusauds which I had to visit every time I went to London), the historical sites like Tower of London and Buckingham Palace, the lovely huge parks, especially Hyde Park speakers' corner on a Sunday afternoon, such a laugh lol, the pubs where you can also eat a hearty meal, even during the afternoon when I used to frequent with my cousins long time ago, and might specially interest your kids, who are grown ups really, a trip to Windsor Castle or Greenwich, the shows I so much love, the shopping spress in Oxford Street or Petticoat Lane - I could go on and on and on. My uncle and aunt lived in London, and when I was in my teens and twenties I used to visit at least once a year, it was home from home for me.

So, not wanting to be biased,I asked my elder son who is now 20 (we visited all three cities as a family) which was his favourite city, and without hesitation replied London (which we visited together as a family just once). He loved the museums, the chaos, the historical sites, everything. London meant fun for him. My husband managed to drive in central London, we had a hired car as we were previously touring the south-west of England, but it was really a nightmare driving in London - worst experience of all cities, so we parked the car in front of hotel and used the underground trains most of the time. And it was not easy at all as our daughter is disabled and having to use the underground with their escalators etc was no joke, but we managed.

I know what you mean by saying it might be the trip of a lifetime. When kids start getting older and older, you start dreading the time when they won't come on holiday any more with you as a family due to work or study commitments, girlfriends, etc. Till now my two sons, who this year will be 17 and 20 still come with us to every single holiday, along with our daughter, who is younger, but they do moan a bit sometimes, so I always researched to make it as much fun as possible for them, till just a couple of years ago I even made sure I included a few days at a funpark or themepark in nearly every single holiday. That always made them want to come.

About accomodation, we always needed to book two rooms, sometimes connecting or alternatively suites, but I always managed to find good accomodation at a very reasonable price, with some hotels or B&Bs giving us very good offers since we were booking two rooms or a suite. Go to the websites of the accomodation you are interested in and ask them if they would give you a special offer since you would be a family and would need 2 rooms. Even 4 star superior hotels sometimes gave us incredibly good deals. same price I would have paid for a B&B. You just have to search and make enquires directly to the owners, long and hard.

Alternatively, you can book an apartment or apartment hotel that has two bedrooms, we do that sometimes. If you are on a budget, you do not have to eat in high class restaurants, you can buy a light lunch or snack or fast food, and also a light dinner or take-out in the evening,or even buy some food and drink from grocery or supermarket, maybe that you just have to heat up if you stay in an apartment.

Don't just go in the first restaurant you pass by, have a look at their menu outside first. Good restaurants are not cheap at any of the three capital cities you have shortlisted, so maybe on some days you have a good meal, on other days fast food or take-outs, or some quickly prepared meal. Carrying some drinks and sandwiches with you every day would help your budget as well for sure.

So unless you are really bent on doing the 3 cities, I would stay 5 nights in London and 4 nights in Paris. But IF you really really have to include the three of them, and have a whirlwind holiday, then I would do 4 nights in London, 3 nights in Paris and 2 nights in Rome, making sure that you arrive in Rome at least early afternoon, so that you would have gained a bit more time (in this case rent accomodation in the very centre of Rome) You can take an open bus tour and see the major sites of Rome, walk around its beautiful historical centre, and maybe fit in a visit to the Vatican and Coliseum. You might consider taking a low cost airline to arrive in Rome, like Easy Jet or Ryan Air. But honestly, I really do not think it is worthwhile the money and the hassle amd the loss of time in including Rome in your itinerary, as these are large capital cities you are talking about, not some small towns and villages.


Needless to say, in Paris include a visit the Louvre, Notre Dame, a short river cruise on the Seine (there is even a hop on hop off ferry service that stops at some major sites - a very convenient way to reach them), Eiffel Tower, a walk along the Seine river, the Place de la Concorde,along Champs Elysee and Arce de Triomphe, and a visit to the beautiful palace in Versailles, and maybe the Lido show in Champs Elysee, if you go to the late night one, the cost for entrance to the nightclub is much cheaper. The only problem might be to return back to hotel or apartment in the night-time.

Enjoy your holiday with your family. Having a good time all together makes it doubly fun, at least it does for me (me and my husband did a few holidays before we had kids a long time ago lol) and I always tell my kids that, but probably in the not too distant future my only option in order to travel all together would be, like in your case, to bring along a girlfriend with us, lol.

If you select US when initially entering the Eurostar website you can generally book longer than that in advance
Maybe, but when I tried last week I couldn't book more than 90 days out.

I've never rented an apartment in London, but you could try one of the rental agencies to help you sort through the offerings (as opposed to a listing service). These two get good reviews:

Ivy Lettings: http://www.ivylettings.com/about-us (5 night minimum)
London Connection: http://www.londonconnection.com/main_menu.asp

Oh my, Liljill, I know that I just blithely read your posts and took off at light speed... I know that, for my part, it is just so much fun to plan and re-live a vacation that it's hard not to share what worked for us.

Good luck! And I hope that your health improves. You have a great attitude about all of this, so you must handle your other challenges with good humor as well.

Liljill,

I've travelled with grown up kids quite a lot, and i can tell you that we've enjoyed it a lot more when we've rented apartments. you just get much more space, and you can lounge about together much more easily plus you have the opportunity to eat in part of the time, which needn't mean cooking- just buy in made up dishes from the deli or traiteur.

some of the apartment rental companies have their own concierge facilities, but there's plenty of info here on suitable restaurants, booking theatre tickets, etc.

if london and Paris are your choices, it should be easy enough to book your flights into London and out of Paris, with eurostar to get you from London to Paris in between.

why not see what you can put together, then compare it with expedia - after all, DH might be right!

With your interest in WWII, I am surprised noone recommended the Churchill War Rooms or Imperial War Museum in London - both very good. Imperial War Museum may take too much of your time, but Churchill War Rooms gives you a good idea of what life was like in the underground war office bunker and it's just down the street from Westminster Abbey. You can get through it in 2 hrs.

I also think you might want to compare apartment rentals with an Expedia package, at least you will get to see if the cost variation is significant. On our first trip with the kids, and we were very new to Europe travel, we booked with an American Airlines package, airfares and hotels in London & Paris. Both hotels were lovely, and I think it was a good choice then. Now, with years of travel and planning under the belt, we do it differently. Find your comfort zone, and the price point and go forward.

along with the Churchill War rooms which dorfan2 suggested, i would also recommend the Grand Army Museum at Invalides in Paris.

Thank you. I appreciate all of the detailed advice. This is wonderful.

In Rome we stayed in an apt thru SleepinItaly, right near Piazza Navona. My 4 sons close to your sons age loved it. It was full of action and places for them to have a beer and enjoy. One night they even got invited to a house party and loved the people. Good luck

Have you been to either Paris or London?

If you've never been to Paris, you can easily spend an entire vacation there.

I love to travel and I love to save money.

Like others have said, get an apartment. Shop the markets and explore Paris. Enjoy the fresh food.

Start enjoying your vacation now by learning to speak some French (should you choose Paris or Italian for Rome) it's fun.