What kind of Train pass? Any other advice
Mar 3rd, 2011, 08:50 AM
#1
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What kind of Train pass? Any other advice
My husband and I are planning a trip as follows:
Arrive in Rome at about 10:00 am from Canada.
Rome - 3 days
Florence - 2 days
Venice - 3 days
Overnight train from Venice to Zurich
Zurich - 2 days
Lucerne - 2 days
Paris - 3 days
What do you suggest in terms are train passes? I see a lot of information on the internet. RIght now if i buy a Eurorail, I get an additonal day free. SHould I buy that or something else. We are flying to rome and getting out of paris.
Another question: Should we give another couple of days in Switzerland and maybe 2 days in Paris (I can add another day or two to our trip). Does this trip look reasonable. I know we will be bit cramped, but I cant afford another few days. I just want to see the Eiffel Tower in Paris. We will probably do another trip to Paris next year, in addition to another country.
We both are under 30 and we will be celebrating our anniversary over this trip as well.
Thank you in advance!
S
Arrive in Rome at about 10:00 am from Canada.
Rome - 3 days
Florence - 2 days
Venice - 3 days
Overnight train from Venice to Zurich
Zurich - 2 days
Lucerne - 2 days
Paris - 3 days
What do you suggest in terms are train passes? I see a lot of information on the internet. RIght now if i buy a Eurorail, I get an additonal day free. SHould I buy that or something else. We are flying to rome and getting out of paris.
Another question: Should we give another couple of days in Switzerland and maybe 2 days in Paris (I can add another day or two to our trip). Does this trip look reasonable. I know we will be bit cramped, but I cant afford another few days. I just want to see the Eiffel Tower in Paris. We will probably do another trip to Paris next year, in addition to another country.
We both are under 30 and we will be celebrating our anniversary over this trip as well.
Thank you in advance!
S
Mar 3rd, 2011, 10:07 AM
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The free day special is only on Eurail Select Passes of 6 days or longer and a 6-day Eurail Select Pass valid in Italy, Switzerland and France would be IMO the only pass you would consider and compare to regular fares - note in Italy you must pay about $14 on top of the pass for each train trip.
Anyway for loads of great info on planning a European rail adventure here are some great sites chock full of great info - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com
Anyway for loads of great info on planning a European rail adventure here are some great sites chock full of great info - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com
Mar 3rd, 2011, 12:55 PM
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OBTW - There are no longer any overnight trains rolling between any place in Italy and Switzerland - you'll have to do Venice to Zurich in the daytime. Think about taking the longer but infinitely more gorgeous route from Milan to Zurich via the Bernina Express/Pass rail route - IMO Europe's most dramatically gorgeous scenic rail line - glaciers tumble practically to the track, etc.
Mar 3rd, 2011, 02:32 PM
#4
A pass may be more expensive than point-to-point tickets. Rome/Florence is 45€ and Florence/Venice is 43€ (prices include mandatory seat reservations that the pass does not include). There is no overnight train from Venice to Zurich a pass would not include a sleeping compartment anyway.
If you want to save money, you need to limit your time in Switzerland as it's very expensive.
Price point-to-point tickets on each countries rail company website.
Italy:
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...0080a3e90aRCRD
Switzerland:
http://www.sbb.ch/en/index.htm
There are discounts on Trenitalia for advance purchase (Mini-fares between Rome/Florence/Venice/Milan and Smart Fares between Milan/Zurich).
If you want to save money, you need to limit your time in Switzerland as it's very expensive.
Price point-to-point tickets on each countries rail company website.
Italy:
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...0080a3e90aRCRD
Switzerland:
http://www.sbb.ch/en/index.htm
There are discounts on Trenitalia for advance purchase (Mini-fares between Rome/Florence/Venice/Milan and Smart Fares between Milan/Zurich).
Mar 3rd, 2011, 03:37 PM
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pass may be more expensive than point-to-point tickets. Rome/Florence is 45€ and Florence/Venice is 43€ (prices include mandatory seat reservations that the pass does not include).>
are you quoting first-class ticket prices like the first-class pass provides - if so that is IME comparing apples to oranges - in my decades of incessant European train riding I can emphatically say that for the average tourist first class is well worth the extra cost.
Maybe bourbon is quoting first class fares but they seem too low for that.
There is a reason lots of Italians pay more to ride in first class!
are you quoting first-class ticket prices like the first-class pass provides - if so that is IME comparing apples to oranges - in my decades of incessant European train riding I can emphatically say that for the average tourist first class is well worth the extra cost.
Maybe bourbon is quoting first class fares but they seem too low for that.
There is a reason lots of Italians pay more to ride in first class!
Mar 3rd, 2011, 06:19 PM
#6
>>>There is a reason lots of Italians pay more to ride in first class! <<<<
Most Italians don't pay more to ride in first class. Most ride in 2nd cl which is why there are so many more 2nd class cars on trains and very few 1st cl.
The OP is asking about saving money and it's likely cheaper to buy point-to-point than a pass of any kind (1st or 2nd cl) so your insistence on overspending for train travel doesn't make sense. You are the only person talking about 1st cl, not the OP.
Rome/Florence 90 minutes 45€ (possible to get a 19€ minifare)
Florence/Venice 2 hours 43€ (possible to get a 34€ minifare)
Venice/Milan 2 1/2 hours 30€ (possible to get a 9€ minifare)
Milan/Zurich 3:45 Smart fare 19€
Zurich/Lucerne 50 minutes 23chf
Lucerne/Basel 1 1/2 hours 31chf
Basel/Paris 70chf (advance purchase sale)
That's less than $350 for all train travel and much less if you get minifares with advance purchase.
The cheapest pass is $430 (2nd cl Eurail Select Saver with free day mentioned above) and you would still need to add 10€ seat fee for every train in Italy, seat fees for TGV and seat fees for any Swiss trains you might want seats.
s_roopa - Here are some pictures of 1st and 2nd cl on the Italian trains. You can see there is very little difference and 2nd is fine with plenty of room with tables. The prices I gave are for the first two sets of pictures (ES/AV and ES City trains)
http://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.h...0trains%20like
Most Italians don't pay more to ride in first class. Most ride in 2nd cl which is why there are so many more 2nd class cars on trains and very few 1st cl.
The OP is asking about saving money and it's likely cheaper to buy point-to-point than a pass of any kind (1st or 2nd cl) so your insistence on overspending for train travel doesn't make sense. You are the only person talking about 1st cl, not the OP.
Rome/Florence 90 minutes 45€ (possible to get a 19€ minifare)
Florence/Venice 2 hours 43€ (possible to get a 34€ minifare)
Venice/Milan 2 1/2 hours 30€ (possible to get a 9€ minifare)
Milan/Zurich 3:45 Smart fare 19€
Zurich/Lucerne 50 minutes 23chf
Lucerne/Basel 1 1/2 hours 31chf
Basel/Paris 70chf (advance purchase sale)
That's less than $350 for all train travel and much less if you get minifares with advance purchase.
The cheapest pass is $430 (2nd cl Eurail Select Saver with free day mentioned above) and you would still need to add 10€ seat fee for every train in Italy, seat fees for TGV and seat fees for any Swiss trains you might want seats.
s_roopa - Here are some pictures of 1st and 2nd cl on the Italian trains. You can see there is very little difference and 2nd is fine with plenty of room with tables. The prices I gave are for the first two sets of pictures (ES/AV and ES City trains)
http://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.h...0trains%20like
Mar 4th, 2011, 03:30 AM
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The cheapest pass is $430 (2nd cl Eurail Select Saver with free day mentioned above) and you would still need to add 10€ seat fee for every train in Italy, seat fees for TGV and seat fees for any Swiss trains you might want seats.>
No it is a first class Eurail Select pass not 2nd class, unless they are under 26 - they say under 30 so that should be first class and for $430 for 7 separarte unlimited train days in first class
vs about $350 + 3% many credit cards add for foreign transactions and you have $360 vs $460 (inc necessary Italian and French resrvations - no one in the right mind would ever reserve a train in Switzerland and none seem to)
anyway for 7 days that is about $14 per long train trip and IMO that is a no-brainer to go first class
I may be the only talking about first class but it comes for decades of incessant train travel in Italy and those countris and for the average tourist with luggage the differnce IMO is well worth it and yes many Italians do pay extra for it - there is not the smattering of first-class seats on Italian trains bourbon claims - I always see 2 or 3 whole first class cars and folks do ride in them!
IMO those who say there is little difference between first and second class on Italian, Swiss or French trains simply have NEVER ridden in first class - that I would be all my old Italian Lire on!
No it is a first class Eurail Select pass not 2nd class, unless they are under 26 - they say under 30 so that should be first class and for $430 for 7 separarte unlimited train days in first class
vs about $350 + 3% many credit cards add for foreign transactions and you have $360 vs $460 (inc necessary Italian and French resrvations - no one in the right mind would ever reserve a train in Switzerland and none seem to)
anyway for 7 days that is about $14 per long train trip and IMO that is a no-brainer to go first class
I may be the only talking about first class but it comes for decades of incessant train travel in Italy and those countris and for the average tourist with luggage the differnce IMO is well worth it and yes many Italians do pay extra for it - there is not the smattering of first-class seats on Italian trains bourbon claims - I always see 2 or 3 whole first class cars and folks do ride in them!
IMO those who say there is little difference between first and second class on Italian, Swiss or French trains simply have NEVER ridden in first class - that I would be all my old Italian Lire on!
Mar 4th, 2011, 05:27 AM
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Go a lot pass was good value @ under $10/da years ago but now
Pass is almost always bad value unless training
relentlessly on slow trains daily you almost never
break even figuring pass cost per day also many surcharges.
Intercity trains are dirt cheap in Italy less
than 5 euros per hour so I book special trains
in advance otherwise just usually hop on train like a local.
www.seat61.com good prebooking info pass discussion.
Congrats!
Pass is almost always bad value unless training
relentlessly on slow trains daily you almost never
break even figuring pass cost per day also many surcharges.
Intercity trains are dirt cheap in Italy less
than 5 euros per hour so I book special trains
in advance otherwise just usually hop on train like a local.
www.seat61.com good prebooking info pass discussion.
Congrats!
Mar 4th, 2011, 05:30 AM
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In Italy last may I trained first class on regional trains
VERY cheaply under 3 euros per hour if you know what you
are doing.
One leg La Spezia to Venice on regional train cost me
UNDER 5 euro first class amazing value.
So stay on super slow but cheap regional trains
to save the most.
VERY cheaply under 3 euros per hour if you know what you
are doing.
One leg La Spezia to Venice on regional train cost me
UNDER 5 euro first class amazing value.
So stay on super slow but cheap regional trains
to save the most.
Mar 4th, 2011, 07:57 AM
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Pass is almost always bad value unless training
relentlessly on slow trains daily you almost never
break even figuring pass cost per day also many surcharges>
this is pure misinformation IME - I've had literally hundreds of passes where I did not train relentlessly all day, etc and they have always been a good value - and qwovadis apparently does not know that most passes now are flexipasses - good for a certain number of unlimited days travel over a 1 or 2-month period - you need not train relentlessly to make a pass pay off.
Take the Italian Railpass - after hearing the Fodor's mantra and folks like bourbon say they rarely are cost-effective I showed that a very typical trip can be cheaper with an Italian pass than without.
and about those regional trains - yes they are cheap but take forever - like instead of 1.5 hours between Rome and Florence about twice as long - regional trains yes you will be on the train relentless if you try to travel say between Rome and Venice.
relentlessly on slow trains daily you almost never
break even figuring pass cost per day also many surcharges>
this is pure misinformation IME - I've had literally hundreds of passes where I did not train relentlessly all day, etc and they have always been a good value - and qwovadis apparently does not know that most passes now are flexipasses - good for a certain number of unlimited days travel over a 1 or 2-month period - you need not train relentlessly to make a pass pay off.
Take the Italian Railpass - after hearing the Fodor's mantra and folks like bourbon say they rarely are cost-effective I showed that a very typical trip can be cheaper with an Italian pass than without.
and about those regional trains - yes they are cheap but take forever - like instead of 1.5 hours between Rome and Florence about twice as long - regional trains yes you will be on the train relentless if you try to travel say between Rome and Venice.
Mar 4th, 2011, 08:53 AM
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Milan/Zurich 3:45 Smart fare 19€
Zurich/Lucerne 50 minutes 23chf
Lucerne/Basel 1 1/2 hours 31chf
Basel/Paris 70chf (advance purchase sale)>
And what IF you cannot snag the limited in number 'Smart fare' Milan to zurich - then you'd pay a whole lot more
Or the Basel to Paris 70 Swiss franc fare - if not available you'd pay a whole lot more.
Passes are good on any train anytime - dictating your exactg schedule as you go along can also be priceless - at least for folks like me. I have never ever had a problem getting on an Italian train with my pass by booking say the day before or even the same day. What if in Rome you decide there is something you really want to do but time ran out and you have an unchangeable or hard to change at the same fare train at 10am and you want to stay the morning to do something - this is a part of a pass that can be priceless - flexibility to dictate which of the at least hourly Italian trains to hop.
Zurich/Lucerne 50 minutes 23chf
Lucerne/Basel 1 1/2 hours 31chf
Basel/Paris 70chf (advance purchase sale)>
And what IF you cannot snag the limited in number 'Smart fare' Milan to zurich - then you'd pay a whole lot more
Or the Basel to Paris 70 Swiss franc fare - if not available you'd pay a whole lot more.
Passes are good on any train anytime - dictating your exactg schedule as you go along can also be priceless - at least for folks like me. I have never ever had a problem getting on an Italian train with my pass by booking say the day before or even the same day. What if in Rome you decide there is something you really want to do but time ran out and you have an unchangeable or hard to change at the same fare train at 10am and you want to stay the morning to do something - this is a part of a pass that can be priceless - flexibility to dictate which of the at least hourly Italian trains to hop.
Mar 4th, 2011, 12:07 PM
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UNDER 5 euro first class amazing value.
So stay on super slow but cheap regional trains
to save the most>
Well whilst I love local trains for the average tourist say going between Rome and Venice the fastest train costs about 75 euros, full price, and takes 3 h 45 min - the IC train takes 6 h 20 min and costs about 45 euros and you have to change in Venice-Meste to get into Venice proper.
Now if you took regional trains, which do not go direct they would take even much longer than the IC train - yes you can save money - the 5 euro fare is way out of date however even for regional trains - but who wants to travel ten hours on a train when you can get there in under 4 hrs? Not many - regional trains are fine for local trips like Florence to Pisa but for the average traveler doing Rome-Florence-Venice they are simply not worthy of mention.
And at 75 euros regular price Rome to Venice for second class travel one can easily see how a railpass can come into play if taking only a few more long distance trains.
So stay on super slow but cheap regional trains
to save the most>
Well whilst I love local trains for the average tourist say going between Rome and Venice the fastest train costs about 75 euros, full price, and takes 3 h 45 min - the IC train takes 6 h 20 min and costs about 45 euros and you have to change in Venice-Meste to get into Venice proper.
Now if you took regional trains, which do not go direct they would take even much longer than the IC train - yes you can save money - the 5 euro fare is way out of date however even for regional trains - but who wants to travel ten hours on a train when you can get there in under 4 hrs? Not many - regional trains are fine for local trips like Florence to Pisa but for the average traveler doing Rome-Florence-Venice they are simply not worthy of mention.
And at 75 euros regular price Rome to Venice for second class travel one can easily see how a railpass can come into play if taking only a few more long distance trains.
Mar 5th, 2011, 06:51 AM
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And at 75 euros regular price Rome to Venice for second class travel one can easily see how a railpass can come into play if taking only a few more long distance trains.>
For example a 3-day/2mo flexipass - Italian Railpass Saver costs $177 - cheaper than the regular round-trip Rome to Venice train fare (2 x 75 euro = 150 euro or well over $200 - so even with 2 x $14 seat reservation fees with the pass the pass is still cheaper and you also have a third unlimited travel day to burn - say a day trip to Naples
and a 4-day Italian Pass only costs and extra $21 ($198) - about as cheap as the return Rome to Venice regular fare - can use one day to go to Naples and another to return (Amalfi, Capri, Pompeii, etc)
So the Fodor mantra that railpasses and especially Italian railpasses never pay off is simply misinformation to the extreme IMO
For example a 3-day/2mo flexipass - Italian Railpass Saver costs $177 - cheaper than the regular round-trip Rome to Venice train fare (2 x 75 euro = 150 euro or well over $200 - so even with 2 x $14 seat reservation fees with the pass the pass is still cheaper and you also have a third unlimited travel day to burn - say a day trip to Naples
and a 4-day Italian Pass only costs and extra $21 ($198) - about as cheap as the return Rome to Venice regular fare - can use one day to go to Naples and another to return (Amalfi, Capri, Pompeii, etc)
So the Fodor mantra that railpasses and especially Italian railpasses never pay off is simply misinformation to the extreme IMO
Mar 5th, 2011, 07:58 AM
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One leg La Spezia to Venice on regional train cost me
UNDER 5 euro first class amazing value>
trenitalia.com shows no regional direct trains La Spezia to Venice except for a 6:13am departure and for folks staying in Cinque Terre to get to La Spezia by 6:10am is iffy and who would want to do it.
and the fare is significantly more, in 2nd class, than 5 euros. Very dated info.
UNDER 5 euro first class amazing value>
trenitalia.com shows no regional direct trains La Spezia to Venice except for a 6:13am departure and for folks staying in Cinque Terre to get to La Spezia by 6:10am is iffy and who would want to do it.
and the fare is significantly more, in 2nd class, than 5 euros. Very dated info.
