What is al dente (sp?)?

"to the bite"

This is a term used for vegetables too - it means they're not cooked for people who wear false teeth.

I am by no means a pro. However, I do know that to me, it is the best way to eat pasta. I can't stand mushy pasta or veggies for that matter. The food is slightly bouncy or stiffer or well, I can't think of the right word, but let us just say not overcooked at all.

Maybe someone else has the word for it. I always ask the restaurant to make sure my pasta and veggies are al dente. (sp?) YUMMY...Food

"to the tooth" (or teeth) is more literal, I think. Referring to a slightly elastic texture which comes from cooking pasta just under "overcooked" (when it no longer springs back).

At the risk of sounding snobby, it seems like no decent restaurant would serve their pasta any other way. I would think to request it, just as I would not ask for "unlumpy" mashed potatoes, nor "unrunny" scrambled eggs.

Best wishes,

Rex

it simply refers to the pasta
having a bitable texture to it ie you teeth dont go straight through
it, but have to bite . Cook slightly less than recommended time,tasting often.when ready drain immediately.Sam

My dentist, Al Dente married a French girl, Bonnie Peteet.

Chewy when it comes to pasta, still crunchy when it comes to vegetables.

"Al dente" literally means "against the teeth", an expression for not mushy, just a little bit undercooked...

Well, having been dragged to an Olive Garden years ago I learned my lesson. They specialize in mushy pasta.

I agree with you, no decent restaurant would serve pasta any other way. But since I was traumatized at that lousy place I can't help but specify

"My dentist, Al Dente married a French girl, Bonnie Peteet."

Yes Patrick, but they had to get a divorce because Al was always looking down in the mouth.

regarding vegetables, at least, the Italians seem to like them either raw or hammered. Not a lot of al dente veg in my experience.

Yes, it's "to the tooth" and just a hair short of being cooked through. To test if the pasta is indeed al dente when cooking it at home, throw a piece against the nearest wall - if it sticks, it's al dente; if it falls to the floor, it's overcooked.

If it falls to the floor, then the Ten Second Rule applies.

I thought it was the 5 second rule?

Either way, it's OVERCOOKED! Do you REALLY want to eat it?

StCirq, by the way, I like how you qualified this with "when cooking it at home." Would a fine restaurant frown upon my winging a strand of spaghetti against the wall?

This thread reminds me why I never order "angel hair" pasta out. It is almost impossible to cook it al dente, but if the chef manages to, it will still overcook while sitting on a hot plate in a hot sauce while waiting to be brought to the table.

I hjave always heard that colloquially "to the tooth" meaning slightly firm. Rex- I ask for what I want & do not really care about offending the restaurant, unless I am saying recommend somthing. Om scrambled eggs, ion Brussels they were served so soft that I saw the server mix cream into them and stir before serving. I would never order scrambled or sunnyside up eggs without specifying how. It's w a waste of time and money.

PLMN- oh honey, whatever in the world were you doing in an Olive Garden?

ninasdream,

Unfortunately, some of us in the smaller towns have no alternative for Italian if we want to eat out.

jocelyn, I don't want to be argumentative, but I find that hard to believe. But then, I am not much for chain restaurants. I know I sound like a snob, but if I couldn't find a little mom & pop place that knew how to do it I think I'd skip Italian. I did without pizza for a year in Arkansas, so I guess I can feel your pain.

Well, we just moved to Tulsa a few months ago. I've talked with several people here who've been to Italy and asked them "Where can I get authentic Italian food? Not necessarily upscale, but the real stuff?" Most say I'm SOL--go to Dallas or KC. I've tried the few mom and pop places in town that have been recommended and they've been nightmares. I haven't eaten at an Olive Garden in years (I am admittedly an Italian food snob), but it's sounding better and better after the awful stuff I've tasted here. I CAN make it at home, fortunately. I guess we'll just have to go to Italy more often.

I am lol. I work with a few people that love the Olive Garden. Other than the salad and the chocolate covered cheesecake I can not stand the place. The last few times I was invited to join these co-workers I politely declined.

It just so happens that my daughter just got her first job at one of the Darden company restaurants, Red Lobster. She gets a 25% discount if she dines at any of the company owned restaurants and she and her little friends enjoy the place.

I grew up in NYC and learned the art of fine dining at a very early age. Makes me wish my daughter had the same opportunitiy. We have tried to expose her to the same culinary delights I was raised on but it is difficult when you live in an area that has a very small selection of good restaurants.

I will say that we have two halfway decent Italian chain restaurants, Carraba and Bucca di Peppo. The later is tons of fun. THey have a table called the "Pope's table." It is a large round table with the bust of the Pope in the center. A lazy susan is used to pass the food around. All the food comes in HUGE portions, served family style.

I took my father and mother there on a visit and my dad saw all the old pictures on the walls. Some of the shots had Frank Sinatra in them. This was the first time I heard the story of my meeting Frank when I was very little. It seems we were eating out in NY at a restaurant where he was also having dinner. It seems I caught his eye and conversed briefly with my dad about me. I don't remember any of it.

PLMN,

We have Carraba's here, too, but I've never eaten there. Are you saying no mushy pasta?

Not so far. A friend of mine introduced me to an entree that I adore. I think it is the Shrimp Damian or Past Damian? You can even have them make it spicy. It is orgasmic. I usually have the Italian Margarita or what ever they call it, it has Amaretto. Then I fill up on the bread you dip in the olive oil/spice combo. Then I gorge on the Damian.

Let me put it this way. On a special occasion my husband and I went. I had been on my Weight Watcher program for a long time. I was not used to over indulging (sp?) I got so sick I can't even go into it. Usually when something like that happens you don't want anything to do with the things you had that made you sick. Well....not me. I STILL love the stuff there.

I hope yours is as good as ours. If you go let me know how it turns out.

I agree that Carraba's is darn good for a chain. The cozze in white wine sauce appetizer is my personal favorite. I ate there many times while living in Texas, where good Italian mom and pop places are hard to find. Now I live in NJ and can have all the Italian I want; I am looking all over here for good Mexican mom and pop places!! It seems I can't have it all!

Yes, and the nice thing about NJ Italian restaurants -- most don't have licenses to sell alcohol, so they are BYOB.

Jocelyn, have you tried posting on chowhound? Here's a quick search I did for you on Tulsa restaurants:

http://www.chowhound.com/south/boards/south/messages/13889.html

Good luck!

I must also admit I was taken with a group practically screaming to Carraba's, expecting it to be like Olive Garden and turned off by the lines nightly at our local one.
But the food was AMAZINGLY good. Some of the best veal I've had outside of Rome.

I had no idea there were "pasta snobs" around...wonders never ceaase.

If you consider anyone who prefers quality in anything a snob, then yes.
I suppose if someone only likes good movies, he's a movie snob.
If a guy only enjoys watching a close or exciting sports event, then he's a sports snob.
If a guy only likes reading decent books, he's a book snob.
If a person only likes to live in a clean house, then she's a cleanliness snob.
The list is endless.

mvor,

Thanks so much for the link. I took a quick look at those posts and it's mainly foodies bemoaning the fact that there is so little good food in Tulsa--lol.

I will definitely try Carrabba's this weekend. A Johny Carrino's just opened as well. Yay or nay?

Sort of related question: at some of the Italian restaurants we've been to here they have "Pasta Carbonara" on the menu (DH's favorite dish), but it's a soft eggy noodle with a heavy cream sauce, peas and proscuitto. Is this a regional variation I'm not familiar with, or do they just have it all wrong?

Jocelyn - what are you expecting it to be? Carbonara to me is cream sauce with peas and proscuitto. Usually, places specify the type of noodle, like fettucini or something...so, I'm not sure what's "wrong" with what you describe.

Karen

The spaghetti carbonara I've always had in Italy (and the recipe I downloaded from the foodnetwork's website) is with pancetta, egg, parmasean, and pepper. Hmmmmm.....

Carabbas is way better than OG (which is only palatable for soup & salad).

In my area of NJ we're spoiled with all the great Italian we want, and Mom & Pop are all over! Yay!!

crzyjodi where in NJ do you live? I live in Union and we've got a number of good options for authentic Mexican...will be glad to offer up some suggestions if you're nearby. Trish

trish how funny i just asked you about 2 buck chuck on another post. i live in New Brunswick, (Middlesex county). Please please point me to some Mexican!!!

No good Italian food in Tulsa? Hmm, surprising. It?s been many a year ago but there used to be a couple of pretty fine family owned places on Denver Avenue, downtown. Tulsa also had some hellaciously good Greek food simply because there was a small but determined Greek community there.

In fact many Midwestern cities often have surprisingly good ethnic food because so many immigrants moved to the Midwest after the War Between the States.

Kansas City is known for dynamic Italian cuisine, as well as some of the worlds best BBQ. There are still tons of great ethnic eats in Chicago.

Sorry to hear about Tulsa, though. Things change everywhere.

The last time we were in NYC a friend noted that if Little Italy gets any littler someday it simply won't be there at all. What a shame.

Didn't you know? Little Italy no longer exists in NYC. It is now called Tiny Italy.

Regarding carbonara. Authentic version is eggs, bacon (pancetta), cheese, and pepper. Nothing more. But everybody seems to be stretching it these days to almost anything with an egg and cream sauce.

>I had no idea there were "pasta snobs" around...wonders never ceaase.<

I'm with you topman. Lets GTG and open a warmed-up can of spaghettios.

Preferably standing at the kitchen sink.

crzyjodi, for Mexican, we like Beana's in Rahway, Salsa's in Cranford, Jose's Mexican Cantina in New Providence, East LA in Hoboken, Nova Terra in New Brunswick. I'll answer the three buck chuck question on the other post.
Trish

DiAblo,

Interesting...how long ago was this? We recently tried a family owned Italian place on Denver Ave. The caprese was actually very good, but our entrees were so bad quality-wise (my fish was bordering on rotten) we couldn't eat them. There are quite a few Middle Eastern immigrants who now own restaurants in Tulsa, so you'll find tabbouli in places you'd never expect (including the aforementioned Italian restaurant and lots of BBQ places!). I like some Middle Eastern food, but it's no substitute for real Italian. Someone told me there's a small Italian community about 100 miles away that has a popular restaurant. I'm not sure if I'm willing to drag the whole family out there...talk about setting yourself up for disappointment.

Ira, lol! Which wine do you drink with your Spag-o's?

The proper wine for Spag-O's, is definitely Italian Swiss Colony served just above freezing. (preferably out of a styrofoam cup).

Cup?? Who needs a cup?

Perfectly prepared pasta, not too hard, not too soft......can't wait, I will be back in Italia in less than 2 weeks!

Al dente is something they do not know how to cope with in many restaurants in Miami where I live.

Because the population in Miami is or at least used to be soooo much more mature (older)the al dente might be too tough for them to chew so they have to make it mushy.

Nice try, PLMN, but if you have to "chew" the pasta, then it isn't cooked al dente. Lot of difference between the pasta having a "bite" left, and having to "chew" it.

Do I have to ask this question about my pasta when I go to Italy?

I like my veggies crunch.

Patrick, I don't understand. Are you saying you swallow your pasta without "chewing" it? Perhaps we have differing ideas on what constitutes chewing or do I misunderstand you?

I chew steak or meat. I don't call breaking up pasta in my mouth "chewing". Yes, I guess we just have different definitions of chewing.

If one wanted to be very technical I suppose we could say masticating. The definition is chewing, but it sure sounds more serious.

Thank you all for a very interesting discussion.

Just as bad as mushy pasta, is pasta that is severely undercooked in the quest of achieving al dente perfection. Like eating packed raw flour--yuck.

OG is not very good--the parents at Mrs. Fly's school gave the teachers OG gift certificates at the end of the school year. She gave hers to another teacher.

We had a wonderful Italian restaurant in our town until a couple of years ago. The guy was a master of a variety of Italian cuisines--but he was a terrible businessman and an alcoholic. He went out of business in spite of a packed restaurant just about every night. Lord, if I close my eyes, I can still taste the garlic.

>he was a terrible businessman and an alcoholic.<

I wonder which was the cause and which the symptom.

Whichever it was, we miss that restaurant a lot.

When I was a little girl growing up in Greenwich Village in New York City (1960s and 1970s) there was a little Italian Restaurant that was named Trattoria Alfredo. It was a small place that my mother and father started going to when it first opened. The food was so outstanding that the chef/owner became very well known at the time, even being written up in many major publications.

I loved going there, I was always treated very special. I was always allowed to pick a restaurant to go to for my birthday and I picked this one most of the time.

I had my first snails prepared italian style. I could not stand Asparagus, to the point of my maternal grandfather making me eat some and not letting me get up from the table until I had finished. I got so sick, let us just say he was sorry he made me be a clean plate club member that day. Anyway, the restaurant had on its menu a cold asparagus made with capers. To this day, I am still searching for asparagus like what Alfredo used to make.

I have tried to duplicate it and no such luck. Also, I had a love affair with the croutons in the salad. Home made, loaded with garlic and sublime. I could have eaten bowls of just the croutons.

This one location was so popular that he opened another restaurant in the city. A little different but just as yummy.

Sadly, Alfredo passed away back in those years and the restaurants ceased to exist.

This is where I learned about al dente. This is the restaurant that taught me to appreciate fine Italian food.

At the risk of being accused of snobbery, I don't think I'd define a meal at the local Olive Garden as "eating Italian". If that's the only choice in town, from my sole experience it would be better - far, far better - to patronise the local ribs joint.

I stumbled across one once and, not realising that it was a chain operation, we made the mistake of walking in. I have grim memories of a plate of overcooked white glop that might once have been pasta, seemingly out of a can and apparently thickened with cornflour, and an indigestible slab of something covered by an indeterminate red sauce called, I think, "Sicilian meatloaf". And they shared the same plate, too.

I woke at 3 am, at first thinking I was having a heart attack, and ended up driving the deserted streets of Asheville NC, whimpering with pain, looking for somewhere to buy an indigestion remedy (thank you, Wal-Mart). It was a horrible experience and I blame myself for opting for "Italian" in an area not exactly crawling with Italians. Whatever happens in an Olive Garden kitchen - if you know, please don't share that with me - it's got precious little to do with Italian cuisine.

I agree that "authentic" carbonara sauce doesn't use cream, but Italian recipes weren't handed down by God on tablets of stone. Half the fun of cooking is the element of surprise (and in my house it's the cook that often gets the biggest surprise).

Okay, we went to Carrabba's for lunch today and it was pretty darn good. I had the yummy salad with grilled shrimp and scallops, DH was happy with his ravioli, and in true Italian style, the kids were treated like royalty. I'm still on the lookout for the little neighborhood trattoria, but it's good to know there's something decent out there.

I must also say that we've found a wonderful gelateria! It turns out to be a rapidly-growing Dallas-based chain called Pachiugo. Good stuff.

I love all this talk about pasta snobs. What about lettuce snobs? DH rolls his eyes at me because if a salad contains iceburg lettuce, I won't touch it.

Jocelyn_P,

I am so glad you enjoyed the restaurant. I am trying to hold off on Italian food for now because my trip is so close. But it is hard because I like to eat out and this is one of the better places in my town.

Well, when we were in Italy the carbonara had no cream sauce at all, it was just panchetta and onions and egg in pasta, kinda fried up if that makes sense. You can't get it made that way at any restaurant in the US as far as I know, but it's sinfully easy to make at home so that's what we do.

>DH rolls his eyes at me because if a salad contains iceburg lettuce, I won't touch it.<

Iceburg lettuce was developed because people were tired of limp lettuce.

"Damned if you do, damned if you don't".

There is a good recipe for Spaghetti alla Carbonara by Molto Mario at
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_19349,00.html

Ira, I think that's the one I use, although instead of putting the raw egg yolk on top I stir the whole egg into the pasta in the hot pan. DH just can't handle the raw egg thing.

Hey JP,

I do the same. My LW won't eat a soft-cooked egg yolk either.

i have a question about spaghetti.

could i use macaroni instead of spaghetti or taghliatelle in making an italian spaghetti bolognese?

are macaroni & spaghetti interchangable to the italians? is the difference asthetic or is there a flavour difference?

thanks,
Sam

What do you mean by "macaroni," Sam? Are you using the term generically or do you mean what's also called "elbow noodles?"

There are infinite varieties of pasta, and infinite varieties of sauce. You can put any sauce on any pasta, though common sense usually dictates that thicker sauces go with pasta with ridges or openings to "catch" the sauce and ingredients. But there aren't any "rules" about pasta. If you make bolognese sauce and put it on tagliatelle, you've got tagliatelle alla bolognese instead of spaghetti alla bolognese - it's that simple

Save some pity for me. I live in Ireland, where lasagna with chips is considered authentic Italian.

Hi Got1,

The Italians do have preferences. However, if you make your own Bolognese sauce and put it on macaroni in the privacy of your own home you will not be arrested.