We've Changed our Plans and We are Skipping Paris
Nov 12th, 2005, 04:01 AM
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We've Changed our Plans and We are Skipping Paris
Well, we have been planning for months - a week in Paris and a week in Italy and now we have decided to do two weeks in Italy and save Paris for another time.
The recent unrest, the comments about Parisians' general disinterest in tourists and their "noncompassion" have helped in making our decision. Traveling to Europe for the first time, the four of us would love to laugh, relax, enjoy and not ignore the people of a region so as to appreciate the architecture, food and wine. Also, the politics revealed in all of the recent news disturb me as well.
So Italy it is - planning to fly into Venice and out of Naples, renting a car and seeing all the regions in between, including a stay on the Amalfi Coast. We are going in September. I am hoping that navigating our way around Italy in a car is doable for four silly Americans who have never been to Europe.
Thanks for listening and any suggestions regarding our trip our welcome. NannyJan
The recent unrest, the comments about Parisians' general disinterest in tourists and their "noncompassion" have helped in making our decision. Traveling to Europe for the first time, the four of us would love to laugh, relax, enjoy and not ignore the people of a region so as to appreciate the architecture, food and wine. Also, the politics revealed in all of the recent news disturb me as well.
So Italy it is - planning to fly into Venice and out of Naples, renting a car and seeing all the regions in between, including a stay on the Amalfi Coast. We are going in September. I am hoping that navigating our way around Italy in a car is doable for four silly Americans who have never been to Europe.
Thanks for listening and any suggestions regarding our trip our welcome. NannyJan
Nov 12th, 2005, 05:14 AM
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If things remain as they are now, I'd go to Paris. But that's me. I wouldn't drag anyone there who didn't want to go or who didn't have the choice either way (ie children).
But as it turns out, you'll probably have a more enjoyable trip spending the whole time in one area. One week in Italy stretching from Venice to the Amalfi Coast is FAST. Another week makes a big difference.
But as it turns out, you'll probably have a more enjoyable trip spending the whole time in one area. One week in Italy stretching from Venice to the Amalfi Coast is FAST. Another week makes a big difference.
Nov 12th, 2005, 06:02 AM
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Nannymer -- you have to travel how you see fit, especially if you're traveling with kids, I'd probably avoid Paris right now too given the unrest. If you are traveling with only adults, I'd probably go anyway, but that's just me.
You might find it interesting however, that my experience when we went to Paris in 2003 and on to Venice, Florence and Rome -- was that I found the Italians "disinterested" in tourists much moreso than any French people we ran into. So much so that this year when we went back, we spent the bulk of our vacation time back in Paris, enjoying the city and the people who live there.
That said, I think 2 weeks in Italy is a fine idea if that's what works for you -- just make sure you see Paris someday, because it is a truly gorgeous city whose people's reputation for indifference is much different than the reality.
Enjoy your trip!
Jules
You might find it interesting however, that my experience when we went to Paris in 2003 and on to Venice, Florence and Rome -- was that I found the Italians "disinterested" in tourists much moreso than any French people we ran into. So much so that this year when we went back, we spent the bulk of our vacation time back in Paris, enjoying the city and the people who live there.
That said, I think 2 weeks in Italy is a fine idea if that's what works for you -- just make sure you see Paris someday, because it is a truly gorgeous city whose people's reputation for indifference is much different than the reality.
Enjoy your trip!
Jules
Nov 12th, 2005, 06:02 AM
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I think it's a good decision, not because of anything against Paris, but because, in a two-week trip, I think you can have a more intense and enjoyable experience if you cover a more limited area.
Nov 12th, 2005, 06:50 AM
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You might want to look at my trip report for northern Italy:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...p;tid=34607146
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...p;tid=34607146
Nov 12th, 2005, 07:19 AM
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Just to keep things in perspective, other countries are concerned that the uprisings will spread to their communities as well, as similar conditions are found across Europe. The "politics" you seek to avoid are not limited to France.
"...There are terrible living conditions and unhappiness - (even) where everybody is Italian," said Romano Prodi, the center-left's candidate to oppose Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi in elections next spring. "Poverty, unemployment and urban decay could spark violence in Italy as well, he said..."
"...Domenico De Masi, a sociologist at Rome's La Sapienza university, said growing income differences make it likely that violence will reach Italian cities as well..."
<u>http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1830552,00.html</u>
I've never felt unwelcome in France in the 10 trips I've made there.
"...There are terrible living conditions and unhappiness - (even) where everybody is Italian," said Romano Prodi, the center-left's candidate to oppose Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi in elections next spring. "Poverty, unemployment and urban decay could spark violence in Italy as well, he said..."
"...Domenico De Masi, a sociologist at Rome's La Sapienza university, said growing income differences make it likely that violence will reach Italian cities as well..."
<u>http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1830552,00.html</u>
I've never felt unwelcome in France in the 10 trips I've made there.
Nov 12th, 2005, 07:32 AM
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Sorry nannymer, but I found your post odd. Skipping Paris during a two week trip which has to include Italy certainly makes logistical sense but to change a trip that is almost a year away because of current events is puzzling. The other factors-Parisians' general disinterest in tourists and their "noncompassion" -are nothing but opinions countered by lots of contrary opinions. Be careful as I generally find people find what they are looking for. Everyone has their own comfort level however and that's what matters--but why broadcast it?
Four people in a car in Italy will be great in September--have a great time. Paul
Four people in a car in Italy will be great in September--have a great time. Paul
Nov 12th, 2005, 01:51 PM
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macanimals
Your point is well taken, and I agree with it. Let me rephrase.
We have decided at this time to spend two weeks in Italy instead of one week in Paris and one week in Italy, mostly due to better weather at that time of year (warmer), the time restraints and logistics of seeing two countries in two weeks, and although I am quite sure all would be well come September, the recent events got us thinking about our plan, and now it seems to make more sense to see Italy in trip one, and hopefully, Paris and other parts of France in trip two. Paris has always been, and remains, my dream trip. I look forward to a future trip where I can spend all of my vacation time in Paris and the surrounding areas as well. For now, DH and the other couple would prefer to spend both weeks in Italy, so I decided to go for it too.
Paris will have to wait...but I hope not for too long!
NannyJan
Your point is well taken, and I agree with it. Let me rephrase.
We have decided at this time to spend two weeks in Italy instead of one week in Paris and one week in Italy, mostly due to better weather at that time of year (warmer), the time restraints and logistics of seeing two countries in two weeks, and although I am quite sure all would be well come September, the recent events got us thinking about our plan, and now it seems to make more sense to see Italy in trip one, and hopefully, Paris and other parts of France in trip two. Paris has always been, and remains, my dream trip. I look forward to a future trip where I can spend all of my vacation time in Paris and the surrounding areas as well. For now, DH and the other couple would prefer to spend both weeks in Italy, so I decided to go for it too.
Paris will have to wait...but I hope not for too long!
NannyJan
Nov 12th, 2005, 03:02 PM
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This is just my opinion, but if you're only going to visit Paris, why do you feel you need to put off the trip? There is no rioting going on in Paris proper. The locals have said so and the visitors who have just retured have confirmed it too. Yes, it's your decision in the end, but I seriously doubt anything bad will befall you if you do continue with your original plans. As for what you say about the Parisians specifically having no interest in tourists, that's not true as far as what I've experienced.
Nov 12th, 2005, 03:07 PM
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What will make the parisians develop compassion by next year? Be prepared to meet some noncompassionate people in every country, including Italy.
Your trip sounds like it will be fun and of course driving a car around Italy is doable, so have a good time.
Your trip sounds like it will be fun and of course driving a car around Italy is doable, so have a good time.
Nov 12th, 2005, 03:27 PM
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Well... first let me tell you I love
Italy and would give my right arm to spend two weeks there. However,in defense of Paris.... we just returned from a week's visit. Have been there before but this time my husband.. who's now older -
had a back problem which required him to use a cane. We were in London before Paris, but it was in Paris where everyone went out of their way to help. We were ushered to the front of museum lines, etc., etc. etc. So my advice: (which reduces all my friends to gales of laughter) If you want to be treated royally in France.. travel with an old geezer with a cane. Seriously, we couldn't have been treated in a kinder fashion.
Italy and would give my right arm to spend two weeks there. However,in defense of Paris.... we just returned from a week's visit. Have been there before but this time my husband.. who's now older -
had a back problem which required him to use a cane. We were in London before Paris, but it was in Paris where everyone went out of their way to help. We were ushered to the front of museum lines, etc., etc. etc. So my advice: (which reduces all my friends to gales of laughter) If you want to be treated royally in France.. travel with an old geezer with a cane. Seriously, we couldn't have been treated in a kinder fashion.
Nov 12th, 2005, 03:40 PM
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Grandma, I was there one year with my arm in a cast, my left! I'm totally left handed. I was amazed at the kindness. Some even helped cut my food.
Others who had a cast, raised theirs to me when we entered a restaurant. I will nevr forget those kind acts.
Others who had a cast, raised theirs to me when we entered a restaurant. I will nevr forget those kind acts.
Nov 12th, 2005, 05:51 PM
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I seriously do not understand how Paris gets the reputation that nannymer alludes to. The people there seem no more or less friendly than Rome, New York, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, Montreal, Toronto, Mexico City...
When we were stuck in the subway late at night our last trip a guy practically bent over backwards to get us through a jam - and he succeeded. He could have EASILY kept on walking. It was one of the kindest acts I've ever run across while travelling.
Two weeks in Italy will be great. But, keep your promise to yourself to go to Paris sometime. It is fabulous.
When we were stuck in the subway late at night our last trip a guy practically bent over backwards to get us through a jam - and he succeeded. He could have EASILY kept on walking. It was one of the kindest acts I've ever run across while travelling.
Two weeks in Italy will be great. But, keep your promise to yourself to go to Paris sometime. It is fabulous.
Nov 12th, 2005, 06:54 PM
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My cousin and her husband took their first trip to Paris in Feb. with their toddler. They decided to travel alot on the metro and, of course, brought the stroller. When it came to entering and exiting the metro many 'noncompassionate' Parisians stopped to help them. Needless to say they will try to return to Paris for more of this 'noncompassionate' attitude after their second child arrives next month.
Nov 12th, 2005, 07:40 PM
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Nanny, I think Paris and Italy in two weeks is too intense, so you're probably doing the right thing--focus on one each time and enjoy your visit.
I just want to address the comment about the "general disinterest in tourists and noncompassion" of Parisians. Having just returned from our third trip to Paris I'm happy to report that we never met one surly, unkind, haughty, snobby, disinterested--whatever negative adjective you wish to add--person. We had people go out of their way to provide directions, OFFER to use English when we were ordering in a restaurant ("I can take your order in English, if you like or, if you wish, I'll help you practice your French."
People smiled, let us pet their dogs and, generally, were more patient then they should have had to be at times. It was a lovely, warm visit and I can't wait to go back.
I just want to address the comment about the "general disinterest in tourists and noncompassion" of Parisians. Having just returned from our third trip to Paris I'm happy to report that we never met one surly, unkind, haughty, snobby, disinterested--whatever negative adjective you wish to add--person. We had people go out of their way to provide directions, OFFER to use English when we were ordering in a restaurant ("I can take your order in English, if you like or, if you wish, I'll help you practice your French."
People smiled, let us pet their dogs and, generally, were more patient then they should have had to be at times. It was a lovely, warm visit and I can't wait to go back.
Nov 13th, 2005, 10:29 AM
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<I seriously do not understand how Paris gets the reputation that nannymer alludes to...>
I don't understand it either. I've read so many great comments from travelers to France that I don't understand how the myth lives on.
Like several other posters, I've experienced many acts of kindness from the French people in Paris and in other cities in France. On three occasions men have taken my suitcase out of my hand and carried it to the top of a flight of stairs and then walked away without waiting for a "thank you."
Another man lifted my luggage onto a train for me. Several Parisians have patiently given me directions and on a couple of occasions stopped and asked if I needed help. Once when I was traveling with a friend she got lost coming back from church in the rain and a young French couple went blocks out of their way to walk her back to the door of the hotel.
I've found hotel owners and clerks to be very kind and helpful. A hotel owner in Provence got an appointment for me to see a doctor first thing on a Monday morning when I woke with a swollen, oozing eye and then offered to loan me some euros when I said I'd have to go to an ATM to get some cash. A shop clerk in Dijon caught up with me two blocks from the shop to return the camera I'd left on the counter.
Hotel clerks in Provence wrote little notes in French for me to show at the post office explaining why I was mailing a box of clothes to my home. The P.O. clerks laughed and took my boxes.
In many trips to Paris and a few to the countryside I've had only one experience with a rude person -- a sales clerk in Bon Marche. I'd had pleasant experiences with other clerks in the store on the same day so decided the woman was either having a bad day or hated her job. And I've certainly encountered rude sales clerks in the U.S. so I refuse to let it color my impressions of the French people.
I don't understand it either. I've read so many great comments from travelers to France that I don't understand how the myth lives on.
Like several other posters, I've experienced many acts of kindness from the French people in Paris and in other cities in France. On three occasions men have taken my suitcase out of my hand and carried it to the top of a flight of stairs and then walked away without waiting for a "thank you."
Another man lifted my luggage onto a train for me. Several Parisians have patiently given me directions and on a couple of occasions stopped and asked if I needed help. Once when I was traveling with a friend she got lost coming back from church in the rain and a young French couple went blocks out of their way to walk her back to the door of the hotel.
I've found hotel owners and clerks to be very kind and helpful. A hotel owner in Provence got an appointment for me to see a doctor first thing on a Monday morning when I woke with a swollen, oozing eye and then offered to loan me some euros when I said I'd have to go to an ATM to get some cash. A shop clerk in Dijon caught up with me two blocks from the shop to return the camera I'd left on the counter.
Hotel clerks in Provence wrote little notes in French for me to show at the post office explaining why I was mailing a box of clothes to my home. The P.O. clerks laughed and took my boxes.
In many trips to Paris and a few to the countryside I've had only one experience with a rude person -- a sales clerk in Bon Marche. I'd had pleasant experiences with other clerks in the store on the same day so decided the woman was either having a bad day or hated her job. And I've certainly encountered rude sales clerks in the U.S. so I refuse to let it color my impressions of the French people.
Nov 13th, 2005, 11:38 AM
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I think the myth of the rude French lives on in the minds of people who have never been in France.
In all our trips I've encountered only one person who wasn't nice, and that was a salesclerk in Galeries Lafayette who made a big deal out of speaking a little English rather than letting me speak French. On the other hand, I've encountered a number of rude shop assistants in other countries!
In all our trips I've encountered only one person who wasn't nice, and that was a salesclerk in Galeries Lafayette who made a big deal out of speaking a little English rather than letting me speak French. On the other hand, I've encountered a number of rude shop assistants in other countries!
Nov 13th, 2005, 11:48 AM
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I agree completely with the comment that it is people who haven't been to France who think the French are rude. We too had one rude person - the headwaiter at Tour D'Argent about 15 years ago. We have been in Paris 8 times, and driven around other parts of France 6 times, and that was our only rude person. How many times can you say that about visiting in the U.S.? Yet, I know many people who have never been to France who tell me how rude the French are. It is just amazing. I guess we have all just defined prejudice.
