Vestal Virgin tomb locale?

Flygirl - It was in the Roman Forum. Here's a link:

http://myweb.lmu.edu/fjust/Rome-Forum.htm

http://roma.world-stay.com/en/guide.html

Hope this helps ...

Steve

thank you Steve!

The ancint Romans had some scary creepy things in their lives,didn't they? This one is particulary so. I'm not positive,but I believe the actual tombs/torture chambers were outside the walls. In the Forum is the monument to them,if I remember correctly. If you like this,you might also like to see the Crypt of the Capuchin Monks(esp. if you have kids!)

Ancient Romans,not Ancint Romans!

Diva's right. From -

http://sights.seindal.dk/sight/318_Vestal_Virgins.html

'The punishment for breaking the vow of chastity was death by burial alive?the only way to kill a vestal without shedding her blood?in a place known as the "Evil Fields", or Campus Sceleratus, just outside the Servian Wall. Their lover would be flogged to death on the Comitium. The execution of one or more vestal virgins were carried out several times, but very infrequently.'

Hope this helps ...

Steve

I can tell you where it's believed to be.

The good girl Vestals were allowed to be buried within the 'Walls of Rome'(a very high honor). But none of their tombs have ever been discovered, they have found 1 tombstone but it was not it it's original location.

The bad girl Vestals were entombed outside the Porta Collina on the rightside of the ancient road.

They have found the Porta Collina beneath the Palazzo delle Finanze (Ministry of Finance on Via XX Settembre) on the Via Goito side.

Earlier historians have placed the tomb's location within 50m of that end of the Finanze building.

But recently an historian (sorry have no references, just memory ) placed in on Via XX Settembre which still follows the ancient roadway near the corner of Via Castelfidardo.

It fits: Just outside the gate and on the rightside of the roadway. He believes that it is somewhere beneath the modern pharmacy (green cross sign) at that location.

My favorite Vestal story is.
The Temple of Vesta was the last Pagan temple and order to be legally disbanded by the Christians.
It's doors were opened to the public just for their curiosity after centuries of being off-limits except to the Vestals and Pontifex Maximus (a Pagan Pope).
A Roman Princess named Serena stole a necklace off the statue of the Goddess and placed it around her neck.
The oldest Vestal cursed her and said she would pay for her sacrilege.
The Vestals now offically outlawed sadly watched their sacred fire burn-out in the Temple for the last time. They left and were never heard from again.
Years later Princess Serena was accused of treason, convicted and executed.
I wonder if she remembered the Vestals curse as the executioner placed the cord around her neck. Her sentence 'death by strangulation'.
Regards, Walter

Great story Walter. Stories or Facts like that keep history alive and much for interesting!

I wonder if anyone ever sneaked down and unburied one of the Bad Virgins so she could escape? That would make a good story wouldn't it.

You're a mine of information, Walter!

Hey - you could start doing guided tours for Fodorites

Steve

thanks! am looking forward to finding this site. how gruesome! poor girls!

flygirl,

How nice to find another H. V. Morton fan! I love his books.

I remember reading--several times--a historical novel about the Vestal Virgins. One in particular escaped being buried alive by being able to carry water in a sieve. I can't remember the book's title but will try to find it--I think you'd enjoy the book.

Ah, the research power of the Internet...I found the book at the Gutenberg Project. It's called "The Unwilling Vestal," and you can download it at no charge. Happy reading.

Ha I remember studying ancient history and the Vestal Virgins in school and trying to think of way to get out of being entombed if I got caught being 'bad'...but I think that there were very few who were actually punished that way.

Flygirl: As I said there are no visible tomb remains but if you'd like to follow the path of a condemed Vestal, it would start at the Regia.
 
The Regia is in front of the entrance to the 'House of the Vestal Virgins'.
 The Regia basically was the Pontifex Maximus and his priests office bldg.

A Vestal breaking her vow of chastity was a *major crime* against their religion beliefs and Rome, it's was so bad there would be nothing to compare it too in ancient Rome that I can think of.

The Vestal would have her trial in the Regia and if found guilty, she would have to give-up her Vestal garments and then was whipped by those who judged her.
 
She is then placed in a covered hearse where she is bound and gagged, so she can neither be seen or heard.
The funeral procession then makes it way thru the assembled crowds in
the Forum.
 
They know the route outside the Forum so it is very likely that they exited by the Comitium. It's the shortest route and the most honored site in the Forum. It's where they have met since Romulus and where the Senate House (Curia Julia) now stands.
 It is also where the man who defiled the Vestal will be whipped to death. If you saw 'The Passion' that is the type of whip that will be used, one with bits of metal and bone attached.
 
I've wondered if this was a ceremonial stop in the funeral procession? Possibly for the poor woman's added torment, forced to hear her lover's screams and his death? That would be very Roman i.e. sadistic.
 
The procession would probably exit by the Argiletum, this is a road on the rightside of the Curia Julia which is still visible today.
 They would then take a left over to the Vicus Longus which is today's Via Nazionale, this route is certain.
  
The Vicus Longus before the 'Baths of Diocletian' was built (~300AD) would intersect (at the Ministry/Finance) with the 'Alta Semita' which today is called Via XX (20) Settembre. That section of the Alta Semita was probably called the 'Vicus Portae Collinae'.
 
If you're standing in front of the Ministry of Finance in the middle, that is where these 2 streets would meet.
 The procession would turn right and at the end of the building would pass thru the Porta Collina Gate, whose remains are under that end of the Ministry.

 Now the 2 choices for the tombs location are either the pharmacy up 1 block. I wish I could find that reference, I remember it was very convincing.
 Or from Livy who says it was on a paved road on the right just outside the gate. They place it within 50m of that corner of the Ministry bldg somewhere along the modern Via Goito.

 Her bonds were cut at the entrance, the priest would say a prayer, all those present would turn their backs to her as she decends the latter.
 The latter is removed and the underground tomb is sealed.

Man has committed no sacrilege against the Vestal, she has food, drink
and light...it's now up to the Gods whether she lives or dies. Regards, Walter

After reading that, Walter, I can't imagine why anyone on their holiday would go looking for such a gruesome thing. It sounds weird to me!

One could plan an holiday accordingly.
After visiting the site of the Vestal Virgins crypt, one could follow up with a visit to the Catacombs, perhaps an historic beheading site or hanging.
One could call it Death Takes A Holiday !

There's more to worry about today with the middle eastern women being murdered by their own family if "deflowered."
We should all speak out more about that . Though I do understand those who waant to see these legendary locations.

dln, that's JUST the sort of gruesome thing I'd go looking for. I'm sure it's every bit as gruesome as going to the catacombs in Paris or to Pere Lachaise ~ both morbid things I loved. I love being creeped out as long as I know I don't have to touch anything and as long as I know I'll be getting out soon.

Pere Lachaise, as beautiful as it was (and it is very beautiful) still is rather creepy with all those abandoned & broken half-open crypts, especially if one tromps by oneself thru the place as I did.

Flygirl, hope you find the vestal virgins. At the very least, it'll be a fun quest!

Yes, Mimsy-san, it is tragic how middle eastern women are treated. And very hypocritical.

Oh, the power of the internet..
The Unwilling Vestal, a fiction by E. Lucas White..

Now do you have the web for downloading the book Underhill?

Strange, but lately i am drawn to books about the ancients, from Druids stories to old Beca, English woman warriors ,to Vestal Virgin ...

Must be my Roman Blood surfacing again..

Beatchick and Cigale, we're on the same page! curious enough to want to see EVERYTHING, informed enough to assimilate it, but human enough to find the human condition in much of the world really depressing. don't even get me going about my trip to Peru. (and that's nearly tame, comparatively)

the near east - all too depressing to contemplate. I am afraid to watch the news in the next few days lest I hear of that poor Margaret Hassan be the "first" woman kidnapped to meet the horrible fate of the other men who were murdered. or, I should say "first" in this particularly gruesome manner - and EXPLOITED in this way by these men with an agenda.

so many of us here at fodors are so blessed - we share a common love of travel and can indulge in it - and better yet, without needing to "ask permission"! unlike those poor unfortunates who are not so blessed to be able to even have common creature comforts, or autonomy, let alone to travel far and wide on a whim.

Walter, as gruesome as it is - fascinating, thanks! sounds like stories from the Tower of London - another favorite which still sends shivers down my spine, for the half dozen or so times I've been there (yes, EVERY time I go with a 'newbie' I take 'em there... which means - tada! another visit in the works in a mere 4 weeks)

Underhill - LOVE HV Morton. I only have 3 of his books currently, but, his "In the Steps of St. Paul" (did I get that right?) I intend to follow one day!!

Crypt of the Capuchin Monk... hmmm.. shall look this up too. (we visited a crypt in Lima - YIKES! they even separated all the skulls, from all the arm bones, from all the leg bones! not connected anymore, for sure!!)

"Death takes a holiday" - I like it!! hmmmm, do I see a guidebook in the works...

LOL, flygirl, glad you are taking it in stride!

Thank you, Walter, for the excellent historical information. I am printing out this thread and adding it to my Rome file, in anticipation of my return to the Eternal City.

flygirl - Out of all the sights we saw in Rome, our favorite, by far, had to be the Crypts of the Capuchin Monks. The artwork that those monks made from the bones was simply exquisite - the rosette flowers made with fingers were beautiful. I would highly recommend it, unfortunately, I think the crypts might currently be closed for renovations.

Like many others here, I, too, tend to navigate towards the gruesome and have always enjoyed wandering through cemeteries. Perhaps it comes from playing in the cemetery when I was a kid....I enjoy having the souls of the dead around me....Happy Halloween....Peace.

Robyn

Oui, oui, mademoiselle flygirl! Definitely on the same page. We 3 are the ones who love to read up on strange and interesting stuff. I am glad to share literary pursuits with both you and Mimi.

You are taking a newbie to London soon? Somehow I have missed out on that. I will e-mail you.

Yes, 'twas dumbfounded to hear about Margaret Hassan. Seems they are getting more desperate ~ they must be to kidnap and threaten to kill someone who has spent her life's work helping the Iraqi people. I've been praying for her. Each day I dread opening up the on-line news pages for fear of bad news about Margaret.

And I know this is off-topic, flygirl, but I feel you will indulge me this. Did you read/hear about U2 getting their lost lyrics back after all these years? I remember hearing about it years ago and always hoped they'd get them back. It sorta reminds me of how Hadley lost Hem's writings at the train station. Scott Fitzgerald commiserated with her and said he'd have been glad if Zelda had lost his earlier bad works and Ernest had to admit it made him a better writer. As for Bono, though, he was under the gun to write all-new lyrics when they recorded October.

oooh, U2 found their lyrics? somehow I missed this. will have to check it out.

hey, are they touring soon??? wouldn't it be fun to get a little trip together to go watch them play somewhere cool like Dublin? I saw them in Berlin in 1993, for their Zooropa tour. would be great to see them live again!!

Flygirl, I just e-mailed you the story. There's a commercial out now with U2, maybe it's IPOD? I pointed out to my Megs that THIS BAND is from Dublin. Maybe we'll see some of the band members out and about when we go (when we DO go)? I understand several of the band members live in Dalkey, just south of Dun Laoghaire.

I have NEVER seen U2 live - SIGH! I had tickets to see them years ago on the Joshua Tree tour with a boyfriend. But my boss had scheduled me for that night after I had asked for it off. I was too young and shy then to say something about it to him until later on that night. When I mentioned it turned out he had scheduled me on the wrong night. Arrgh! I think back now that it would've been better to have quit that job just to see them live.

I did get a t-shirt out of it, though. My then boyfriend bought me a beautiful black Joshua Tree t-shirt that was lettered in gold ink. Unfortunately, my brother borrowed the shirt, took it to a swimming pool, got chlorine on it, left it hanging out to dry on the fence and it bleached it to a dark grey. My beautiful Joshua Tree shirt! Even today, when I mention it, my brother hangs his head in shame.

For anyway else interested in the U2/Lost Lyrics saga, here's the story:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041022/ap_on_en_mu/people_u2_lyrics

Flygirl, thanks for your indulgence!

You and your Roman blood, KismetChimera!

Here's the website to download the book for free. Is this what you were looking for?
http://www.gutenberg.net/catalog/world/results

thanks for the book link Beatchick!

Merci Bien Mon Amie Beatchick, but I cant get through the site..My old PC keep freezing up..
Quel Dommage!!
Ciao Bella,
AnnaMaria

I was once a Vestal Virgin. It was so long ago I cannot remember anything about it now. Actually, it is a "recovered" memory my therapist helped me with. I am still in recovery.

--Marv