seafan

We're a middle aged couple, and we'll be flying into Zurich and out of Venice in late Sept/early October. Yikes! We've already booked our last four nights in Venice, where we've been before. We're not hikers but we like to walk. We do like museums, but the primary purpose of this trip is the scenery. However, we no longer make getting to peak of the highest available mountain a priority. It's usually fogged over up there anyway. ;-)

We were thinking of spending 3 nights in Lucerne, then probably a night in Chur to catch the Bernina Express, then a night somewhere along the way before heading to Lake Como for 3 nights, then on to Venice.

OR we could spend 3 nights in Lucerne, then head directly to the Lake Como area for 3/4 nights, Milan 1/2 nights, and on to Venice.

Given the time of year, which would you choose? Or do you have another suggestion of how to structure this trip?

bobthenavigator

Good for you---some of my favorite destinations.

I think I would choose the latter, but not sure what a 1/2 night may be. Here is my Como gallery in early Oct.

http://www.slowphotos.com/photo/show...y.php?cat=4442

seafan

Thank you. Your photos are lovely!

PalenQ

the Bernina Pass rail route, over which the posh Bernina Express tourist train runs as well as about hourly local regional trains you just hop on (BE required advance reservations) is to me the most awesomely scenic train in all of not just Switzerland but Europe - don't miss it.

And I would consider staying in St Moritz or Pontresina or some nearby burg with rail/bus service for two nights - using your extra night you want to fit in between Bernina and Lake Como (get off the train from Tirano, Italy there at Varenna-Esino for boats to Bellagio and Como) - for one reason - most folks simply blow thru the Bernina Pass on the Express train - dubbed the world's slowest express train - it crawls along in sinuous terrain but since it does not stop as much as local trains do it's 'an express'1!

So base here two days and do one whole leisurely day out on the Bernina Pass rail route - getting off at the summit - and doing the walk around the lovely alpine lake to the glaciers - sit on teh sun terrace at station cafes and eat and drink - there are interesting things to stroll to from several stations.

You probably are not traveling enough in Switzerland to look at any pass or half-fare card so just buy your tickets once there - and the regular trains do not even take reservations I think so with one round-trip ticket from say St Moritz you can get on and off anywhere on that one ticket that day (I think - ask at the station). For the official BE book seats thru their web site - you can buy the ticket once there I understand.

For sites with loads of great info on the Bernina Pass Railway check out: wwwq.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html (on the later scroll way down to the bottom for a box on the Bernina Express and places to get off at.

So in lieu of just going non-stop by some of the most awesome scenery in Europe make a whole day of it and enjoy this fantastic area up close. When is the next time you can waltz to a glacier?

neckervd

You may spend a full day around Pontresina, St. Moritz or Segl Maria.
Timetables:
Lucerne - St- Moritz /Pontresina: every hr from 6.35 until 19.35, 4 hrs journey
Bernina Express trains: (Lucerne dp 6.10 -) Chur dp 8.32 - Tirano ar 12.36; (Lucerne dp 10.35 - Chur dp 12.58 - St. Moritz ar 14.58) St. Moritz dp 15.22 - Tirano ar 17.27
Standard trains St. Moritz - Pontresina - Tirano about every hour from 7.45 until 16.45, 2 1/2 hrs journey
Trains Tirano - Lake Como (Colico, Bellano, Varenna) every 2 hrs from 7.10 until 19.10

Lucerne - Lake Como: change from train to (Menaggio bound) bus at Lugano or -much better - board there the 14.20 Lake Lugano boat (extremely scenic ride) up to Porlezza ar 15.45 and go on by Menaggio bound bus.
http://www.pontresina.ch/en/summer.html
http://www.engadin.stmoritz.ch/sommer/en/
http://www.valposchiavo.ch/en/valpos.../portrait.html
http://www.luganoturismo.ch/en/306/t...-villages.aspx

seafan

Thanks so much for all the information and the timetables! A two night stop in the same place would definitely be a nice option, PalenQ.

PalenQ

http://www.rhb.ch/Bernina-Express.1676.0.html?&L=4
If you want to take the Bernina Express one way make a reservation on the official site of the Rheatische Bahn, operators of the line - see also schedules and suggestions for where to get off - the Italian portion though neat is not nearly as awesome as the Swiss part so on a day trip get off at say Alp Grum or Bernina Ospiz - do some easy (or hard) walking between those stations or to the glacier, around the lake, etc.

Then when you go to Tirano, Italy for connections to the Italian rail system maybe take the official Bernina Express - enjoy the commentary and faster travel since it does not stop at every hut like the local trains do.

philly54

We did the same trip except for the stopover on the BE route. We stayed overnight in Zurich,took the early morning train to Chur and then the Bernina Express to Tirano. We then took the regional train to Varenna. We spent 3 nights at Hotel Du Lac. From there we took the train to Venice and spent 4 nights there. I highly recommend the Bernina Express and Hotel Du Lac in Varenna.

seafan

Thanks, philly54. I saw the photo of that hotel in bobthenavigator's photo collection. What you mentioned about staying in Zurich was another possibility I was thinking about. I read other threads that said it was possible to make that connection in the morning. I would want to stay in Lucerne the other nights though, I think.

bobthenavigator

Do not miss Lucerne !

The hotel Du Lac you saw in my pics was in Bellagio not Varenna. The Varenna one is more popular.

seafan

Oh, okay. Thanks!

PalenQ

If you have never been to the Berner Oberland - Jungfrau Region - before then I would spend three nights there instead of Lucerne - Lucerne is a cute city but for many a bit boring after a day or so - though you can do some fantastic day trips from it -yet the Interlaken-Grindelwald-Lauterbrunnen area is the consensus high point of Switzerland - figuratively and literally - this is the snow-capped majestic glacier-girdled peaks you've been dreaming of seeing perhaps when thinking of Switzerland but which you will not find in Lucerne - base in a hill town like Grindelwald, Wengen, etc and do any of many great easy day trips - by the many toylike mountain trains, thrilling aerial gondolas or easy to moderate to hard walking trails - this is the Switzerland etched in many folks minds and would be my recommendation for anyone never having been to Switzerland to concentrate on.

PalenQ

http://www.myswitzerland.com/en-us/jungfrau-region.html

See why this region is the high point of Switzerland in so many ways!

PalenQ

What you mentioned about staying in Zurich was another possibility I was thinking about. I read other threads that said it was possible to make that connection in the morning. I would want to stay in Lucerne the other nights though, I think.>

I always ALWAYS advise staying right in your departure city the night before leaving simply because you never know what transport disruptions may pop up - train lines blocked for some reason - a strike, etc. If you have a non-refundable ticket at least be in your airport departure town the night before IMO.

Hagan

Thought I'd piggyback onto this thread as I have similar questions. Got a great deal on r/t flight Milan for mid-May, 2014. We only have one week, Sat. - Sat. total, and were thinking of seeing Varenna, Venice and possibly a ride on the Bernina Express to see a bit of Switzerland.
Should we start out in Venice, then work our way back, with Lake Como being our final spot before flight out of Malpensa? Originally thought of Venice for 2 nights, Lake Como for 4 nights with a long daytrip via Tirano on the BE. I was hoping we could get the BE somewhere on the way back from Venice but it looks like that's really cunbersome. Any suggestions?

neckervd

My suggestion:
Varenna Lake Como dp by train 11.24 - Tirano ar 12.50. Have lunch at Tirano (small Italian mountain town). Tirano dp 14.04 by Bernina Express up to Thusis ar 17.50. Thusis dp by bus 18.35 via Viamala Gorge - Hinterrhein Valley - San Bernardino Tunnel to Bellilnzona ar 20.20. Sleep at Bellinzona.
Visit then the 3 castles and the medieval city center of Bellinzona and board a direct train to Malpensa airport Terminal 1: Bellinzona dp 5.54 and then every 2 hrs until 19.54; scenic 2 1/4 hrs ride, more than 1 hr directly along the shore of Lake Maggiore.
You may also do the Lake Maggiore leg by boat, if you have enough time.

Dukey1

Dep 18:35 and it will be pitch dark by when?

neckervd

"Dep 18:35 and it will be pitch dark by when?"
In October about 1 hr later (at this time the bus will be in the San Bernardino Tunnel).
Buses leave Thusis about every hr from 7.35 until 19.35 (about 5 min after the arrival of the hourly standard trains from St. Moritz) and there are hotels all along the itinerary.
As we don't know, at which time seafan must be at MXP, it's not possible to optimize the proposal.
If it must not be the direct Bernina Express train Tirano - Thusis, there are tons of other possiblities along the same itinerary.

PalenQ

with Lake Como being our final spot before flight out of Malpensa?>

You can take cheap trains from Como-Nord (station right by the boat dock in Como) and by changing once be in the airport in about an hour or less - there used to be airport buses to Como but I think they have been scrapped - but in any case no reason to go into Milan to get to the airport.

aliced

Yes, forever "etched in our minds" is the Jungfrau region which we explored from Interlaken; had we known the weather was to be so perfect for three straight days, we would have stayed there an extra night, cancelling a night in Zermatt. But Lucerne was lovely for two nights-- if you are there, do see the Transport Museum, it is fascinating and worth a few hours, especially if the weather is not fantastic. We chose not to explore the mountains there, so two nights were plenty. Hotel du Lac in Bellagio was perfect for a couple nights at the end of (another) trip to France & Italy; quiet, lake-front bar-terrace, and convenient to trains for your departure cities.