IMHO with only 4 days in Paris I would not do either Versailles or Giverny. There is too much to see in Paris.

Given a choice, go to Versailles on your own, no need for a tour. Once at the chateau you can book the tours or buy tickets ahead on line.

I agaree that with only 4 days in Paris, you have enough to see and do withont leaving Paris. I would spend all 4 days there.

If your group really wants a day trip, I would go to Versailles. If it were May - September, I would choose Giverny - you can see what is in bloom by going to the website. In early October, I might opt for Versailles. It's an easy train ride from Paris and can be done in half a day.

Hi JR,

>We are visiting Paris the first week in October (4 days total) so weather-wise I'm not sure Giverny is worth the effort.<

You are correct. Neither is Versailles.

You don't need a tour to visit Paris for 4 days.

What's your budget?

Really? Versailles is not worth visiting either (in October)? That makes me sad!

I have visited Versailles in the past (10 years ago) and wanted to take my fiance there.

As for Paris -- we're going to just go with the flow while we are there. The 'must see's' are:

Eiffel Tower (not to the top)
Louvre (I believe it is open Wednesday evenings?)
Notre Dame
Saint Chapelle (on a sunny morning)
Ile St Louis
Sacre Coeur
Arc d'Triomphe
L'Orangerie
Seine River cruise (at night)
Versailles

I think my list might be too extensive, so if I get to half of them I'll be happy.

Our travel group is staying at a hotel in St. Germain, so we're hoping we can walk to most places.

We might do a HOHO bus tour morning of the first day just to get our bearings.

Mostly I want to sit at a cafe or park and people watch, stroll along the Seine. Nothing too arduous or ambitious.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Judy

I disagree that Versailles is not worth visiting. And you don't need a tour. Just take the RER and visit the parts of Versailles that appeal to you. Yes, Paris is big and there's a lot to do in 4 days. But I would not miss Versailles. (I would skip Giverny this trip)

Thank you! I agree!

I personally wouldn't want to try to visit those two places in one day but there are cheaper tours than what you found. Check out the link below and you'll see a coach tour to both places that includes entry fees and a guide and also a lunch at at a pretty old mill on a river a few km up the road from Giverny. The cost is 135€ but there is a 10% reduction for tours taken before November 1st.

http://www.pariscityvision.com/en/cityrama/visit-monet-s-house-and-gardens-in-giverny-visit-the-palace-of-versailles

I would skip VErsailles and Giverney with only 4 days in Paris. There is SO much to see, enjoy, experience, and that is not near enough time. Are those 4 days, arrival and departure also--or at least arrival? From where. What else are you doing.
Your list isn't too extensive, except for versailles.

Versailles, maybe. Giverney will take up most of a day and unless you are a major Monet afficiando, October would not be an ideal time. Neither require tours.

I don't think it is possible to do both in the same day on your own, unless you hire some private driver, of course. But if you are doing that to save money, no.

I don't agree that Versailles is not worth visiting in October, I think that was just a snarky comment from someone who doesn't like Versailles, that's all. You can't assume every single opinion is the consensus. Why would that even make sense, for example.

Versailles is one of Paris' top top sites and for those who say it is not in Paris technically that may be correct but practically it is not - you can get to the palace of Versailles quicker from some metro stations in Paris I would wager than from those stations to say Montmartre

The Palace is just a short RER train ride practically right to its front door - and anyone who says Versailles ain't worth it - well to them it may be but to some so is the Louvre, Orsay, Eiffel Tower, etc - other acclaimed 'musts' in Paris.

To those who say there is too much to do in Paris than to waste time go to Versailles I say rubbish - what would you do with that half day you would spend at Versailles - traipse thru another museums?

Versailles is in Paris and is one of its top sites and called the world's finest palace often for good reason.

to say Versailles is not in Paris IMO is like saying that Statue of Liberty ain't in New York and you should spend all your time in Manhattan and not waste time going out of Manhattan to the Statue (which indeed I believe is in New Jersey or was?).

Go for Versailles and even in October the gardens there will be stunning for sure.

This thread is like the telephone game we played as kids. The first person says something and the last person has a very distorted view of what the first person said.

No one said that anyone would "waste time" going to Versailles.

Several people said that with 4 days in Paris there were other things that they would rather see than Versailles.

No one bashed Versailles.

Several people interpreted others' remarks.

Judy - go to Versailles or not. You asked for and received opinions. Read those opinions, not the interpretations of the opinions.

My other opinion is that a half day is not enough for Versailles. If you spend a day there then you have 3 days in Paris minus the half day HOHO bus that you may take. If you spend time doing these things you need to prioritize your "must see" list to get it all in plus your cafe time.

To clarify, we arrive in Paris on Monday evening and leave Paris on Saturday morning, which gives our group Tuesday through Friday (in its entirety) to visit Paris, and Versailles.

After all your thoughtful advice, I am taking my fiance to Versailles. From what I remember it is stunning (I visited there in May) and worth the time and effort.

We (my fiance and I) are not really into museums (although I believe the rest of our travel group will spend extensive time in museums), we'd much rather roam about and immerse ourselves in Parisian culture rather than spend multiple hours waiting in line to get in.

But I do love Monet paintings (that's what I'll find at the L'Orangerie, right?)

So, now that you all know we will be in Paris for 4 FULL days, does my itinerary still make sense? Is it doable?

And....just a note regarding the Statue of Liberty -- technically the island is in NYC, but for some reason New Jersey foots the utility bill, LOL!

so your going. Does your fiance really want to see it? Would he rather be doing something more IN Paris. Just a thought.
We took our kids and their spouses for a week. One couple wanted to go to Versailles. I started to discourage it, and DS said, MOM, she wants to go. FIne. We left it loose to decide when they would go--none of us was joined at the hip, except for our days with Michael (something you might consider). By Thursday I said, remember Versailles, and they said OMG--we don't have time to go. It's OK though--we "need" to do all this other stuff. True story.
I always recommend the DK Eyewitness Guide to Paris because of the way it is set up--you can see the many sightseeing sites within an area, and maximize the time you are there.
I also recommend the Green Guide for deciding what part of the Louvre you would like to concentrate on.
I don't see the the Orsay on your list--or the Marmottan (Monets there too)--or the Cluny-or Carnavalet. But to leave out the Orsay would be a shame.
The Louvre is also a "chateau" like Versailles, and its basement is very interesting for the way it was constructed.
If you DO take the HO bus, then when you go to Montmartre part of it, see Sacre Coeur then.
do you have meal ideas? HOw many of you are there.

We are a party of 10 (all family).

My fiance and I don't really like going to museums that's why I only included the Louvre and L'Orangerie (this is where I thought a lot of Monets are housed, am I incorrect on this point?).

I think spending 1/2 day in Versailles will not detract from our time in Paris since we don't have a lot of interest in museums anyway. My working plan is to catch the earliest train in the morning to Versailles, visit for a few hours, walk back to the village (if I recall correctly, it was quite nice) maybe stop there for lunch before heading back to Paris for the rest of the afternoon/evening.

As for meals -- we're not really sure how to handle that since we are such a large group.

Breakfast should be easy (we are all early risers and a coffee and croissant should be perfect), lunch will be on-the-fly based on where we are.

Dinner is where we struggle -- difficult to seat 10 people without a reservation I would imagine, but since we're not familiar with Paris restaurants in general, we might wing it as we go.

You won't find Monets at the Louvre. You will find them at the D'Orsay and the Orangerie.

With that number you cannot wing it as you go unless you want to just eat at Leon de Bruxelles, or the rue Hachette restaurants--and even the latter would be difficult.
Plan your meals--there are a JILLION threads here--and make reservations--your hotel desk can do it for you.
If you are planning on your coffee and croissant at your hotel breakfast room, you are probably adding a good bit to your hotel bill. When we did (8) it, we found a small cafe nearby and met there for our coffee and bread. One morning we found a creperie which was fun.
Are you all going everywhere together every day, except your Versailles trip? Who is "advising" on what to see and how to do it? Has everyone been before?

I visited Paris about 14 years ago -- so I am the 'de facto' expert, LOLOL.....we do plan on staying together for the most part, but have all agreed beforehand that if we break into groups based on what we want to see, it's all good.

Louvre -- just to see the Mona Lisa and a few other paintings. I thought L'Orangerie was best for Monet (might add D'Orsay if time permits).

Good idea to ask the hotel to book reservations for us, thank you!

We don't plan having breakfast at the hotel, probably at a cafe nearby -- we are staying in Saint Germain, so I imagine there are many to choose from?

As for dinner, I read a few threads on this site, it's actually quite overwhelming to try to read through it all and make solid decisions -- that's why we're thinking of just picking restaurants depending on where we are at the time.

adrienne - I think this poster is saying both Giverny and Versailles are a waste of time with so much to do in Paris itself:

>We are visiting Paris the first week in October (4 days total) so weather-wise I'm not sure Giverny is worth the effort.<

You are correct. Neither is Versailles.>

My husband and I love Paris and consider visiting Versailles as one of the big highlights of our trip, we toured the interior our first two trips but for us it really is the grounds that are so extensive and captivating, we easily spend the entire day exploring and then wish we had a few more days to spend just in this one area. We always go late September and I can't imagine that you and your husband wouldn't enjoy it in October. Additionally, as many have said before me, you can easily catch a train and be there in a relatively short time, no costly tour needed.

Good luck with dinner

Monet paintings are in Orsay, Orangerie, and Marmottan. Of the three, Marmottan is most intimate. Marmottan Monet collection is the largest and that is where you find Monet's Sunrise. http://www.marmottan.com/english/collections-musee/claude-monet.asp. Orangerie is where you find his large water lilies paintings as well as large bus tour groups.

Be careful about "picking restaurants where you are at the time." It is hard to seat 10 people - and unlikely tht good restaurants will have seating for 10. So you'll end up eating bad food since good food will attract crowds. If you can give us approximate budget for food, we can suggest a few good places to eat and you can have your hotel make a couple of reservations.

Versailles is definitely ON my list to visit. The remainder of our time in Paris we will try to see as much as we can without taking away from the essence of being in Paris itself.

I might go to Marmottan instead of Orangerie, thank you for the great tip!

Thanks again all!

I thought one person's suggestion--to leave Versailles to your last day, Friday--made sense. You all might be determined to do it by then OR just say, "Hey, let's do this another time. Let's do _____ instead." Or perhaps by that time, 3 of you will want to go and the others will want to do something else.

If you want to eat dinner other than at Leon's or McDonalds, get booking on those reservations. For ten people, roll up your shirtsleeves and get to it. Quickly. Even at a bakery, your ten people could swallow the place

Monet: what Greg said. I'd put L'Orangerie first, though. You aren't visiting Giverny so l'Orangerie will act as your simulated visit. And it's location is easy.

Nearby Musee d'Orsay is where you want to be if you like any of other Impressionists (Van Gogh, Renoir, etc) and it has some good Monets too.

Musee Marmatton is further out. So while it has value from a Monet perspective, from a touring perspective, it may not make your "hit" list for this trip.

If your group doesn't know Paris, if you don't hire a guide, it is going to be a fiasco, in my opinion. Sorry to say it. When we took our family I had already been to Paris at least 12 times and I wouldn't have been able to do it for them--let alone be the "captain". That's why we hired Michael and he showed us things I had never seen or known. Told everyone they (all of whom had been at least once) they could come along or do what they wanted. And we did split up some, but the 2 days we had MIchael (mind you, we had 7) everyone hung on.
You really must make dinner plans unless you want to eat at a chain restaurant. Fine--doesn't seem much like Paris to me where the food is REALLY part of the trip.
what age are these people?

Get the Paris Museum Pass which just a few major museum entries can pay for and you all may want to go at separate times to many more museums you ordinarily would not pay for

It also gives you priority entry to Louvre, Orsay and especaill at Versailles where skipping oft long ticket lines is a definite plus.

The Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, the Champs-Elysees, Notre-Dame Cathedral - those are the top individual sights IN Paris IMO.

There is no reason all the members of your group need to do the same thing.

I would vote for staying in Paris all 4 days.

The ones that want to go to Versailles can. those who want to go to Giverny (I think not great out of season) can.

I don't know of any way of seeing both in one day and actually seeing much (those tours tend to rush you around and you will miss a lot of Versailles).

And you need to take weather into consideration. Neither will be much fun in the rain - so if you are going, pick your first nice sunny day.

I, too, feel that with only 4 days, I would skip Versailles and Giverny. You can, in fact, do either in about 4-5 hours (including transport), but it might feel rushed...especially Giverny, which requires transport to the train, transport on the train, and transport on the bus from the train.

Versailles is somewhat easier -- just RER -- but there is about a ten minute walk and usually a significant wait to get it...probably over an hour each way.

With only four days, I'd recommend spending as little time on transport as possible. Find a central location near the river, and plan each day to visit clusters on the map.
SS

We're planning Versailles for our last day -- and since we're not booking a tour, we can easily go or not go depending on what we've been able to see and do up until that point.

Gretchen -- who is Michael and how do I contact him? Is a guide really necessary?

Restaurants -- I don't know where to book, and I agree that the food experience is special in Paris. After having read the dozens of restaurants threads on this site, I am more than overwhelmed as to what decisions to make. I am going to ask our concierge to reserve for us at Florimond upon our arrival but other than that I am at a loss regarding where to eat.

Given the short space of time we will have in Paris, I might stick to just L'Orangerie as first intended as I don't want to venture to far away from the places on my list.

I don't know if anyone read my other post (London visit), but based on everyone's suggestions there, our group is splitting up so that we can all see the things that are most important to each of us. We will, in all probability, do the same in Paris.

Pete and I want to wander through Paris....someone calls this being 'accidental tourists', which I find very appealing.

Planning this trip has been very stressful for me -- 10 people, 10 opinions -- as you can imagine, so I'm looking forward to 'de-stressing' in Paris.

I recall from my last visit many years ago that the nicest thing about Paris was not doing much of anything, just relaxing, people watching, strolling along the Seine. My bucket list is extensive but I will be OK with the things I get to see and save what I don't get to see for my next trip.

Good plan? Bad plan?

Remember, if you get a museum card you can skip long lines. Plan wisely for where you go which days because you buy the card for a number of consecutive days. The card is worth it just to skip the lines at Versailles, the Louvre and the Orsay.

From my perspective, Versailles is so much more than the chateau itself. You can wander the gardens, see the fountains, take the little tram or a horse drawn coach to Petit Versailles and see the grounds.

You can book restaurants on thefork.com. I found it really useful on a recent trip because it also lists menus and prices.

Thank you -- will check out that site.

I didn't know the museum card could also be used at Versailles. Sigh....looks like I need to start researching this....again!

I am very much looking forward to Versailles, whether or not Pete and I go on our own or with the entire group.

I'm not too concerned about the things I'll not get to see...I believe the entire Paris experience will be amazing and if I start worrying about the things I'll miss I won't truly appreciate the things I will get to see and do.

"Planning this trip has been very stressful for me -- 10 people, 10 opinions -- as you can imagine, so I'm looking forward to 'de-stressing' in Paris"

Ummmm, yes. Hence my post about hiring a guide like Michael--especially Michael (Michael Osman). He is VERY reasonable, he can show you the highlights or the hidden gems, maximize your tour of the city or any museum since he is also an artist--and an excellent "teacher". Very engaging.
HOW are you going to plan for these 10 people and what they want to do--herding cats, unless your family is very different from any other!! LOL Of course a guide isn't "necessary". It's a choice of making your trip memorable or at least covering the bases, since your last trip seems to be a while ago. A real honest to goodness guide is really a great "destresser", since YOU are not in charge--that is exactly the reason I hired Michael, although I was perfectly capable of making up a tour for our family. I didn't want to be "in charge".
When we go we spend a LOT of time just being your "accidental tourist" type of thing. That's fine for you. What about the other 8 people that you seem to be responsible to or for.
Just a note--The fountains are not on all the time, and October may be a bit off season for the gardens. The Pass is only good for parts of the Palace, if I recall correctly--certainly plenty to see however.
Your group will come close to filling Florimond--ours took one whole side. I made the reservations far ahead.

A restaurant our group really enjoyed and was very reasonable was Au Piano Muet on rue Mouffetard.

Versailles is somewhat easier -- just RER -- but there is about a ten minute walk and usually a significant wait to get it...probably over an hour each way.>

Well with a Paris Museum Card in hand you just skip those long lines.

And yes grasshopper makes a great point - Versailles is much more than the famous palace - the gardens - the big pool behind them and Marie Antoinette's Hameau where she allegedly played peasant girl - thatched cottages she at times stayed in I guess.

And the city of Versailles itself is a sweet regional town. Drop into the Versailles Tourist Office just opposite the RER C station and pick up a walking tour map of the old part of Versailles just north of the palace area - where you find stately old squares and edifices that were only homes to ambassadors to the Court of King Louis were quartered - plaques tell about Benjamin Franklin's quarters, etc.

I just emailed Michael Osman -- thank you for the suggestion.

I absolutely DO NOT want to be the person in charge -- it's my vacation too, after all!

Pete and I will chart our own course, and if the rest of the group wants to join us, all the better. We're trying not to put any pressure on any one person. My quest by asking so many questions on this forum is to try to form a good plan based on what I want to see and do given the few number of day I am in Paris.

Is it NOT a good idea to ask our hotel concierge to arrange dinner reservations for us?

<<Is it NOT a good idea to ask our hotel concierge to arrange dinner reservations for us?>>

Are all 10 of you planning to dine together every night? If so, even though I have never used, and never would use, a concierge in Paris to make dinner reservations, I might under those circumstances. But actually, if you do want to eat together, I'd just get online and on the phone right this minute and make them yourself. Paris has thousands of restaurants and, depending on the type of place that appeals to you and how popular it is and what time of year it is, it can make sense to make reservations. You can also always, always, just roam around and find good food (but not with 10 people).

That is very true. Will start researching restaurants.....sigh!

Let someone else do some of the work, Judy! It's not rocket science these days for anyone who has a computer!

Yes, what are the rest of these people doing. If they are old enough to be going on this trip, they could do some research also. We had friends who went to France in June with young children, and each family researched and suggested things to do.
Yes, a conscierge can make the reservations, BUT I would suggest that YOU have the restaurant picked out, with the address and phone number and you ask them to call for the reservation. BUT your time is so short, by the time you get there, you might need back up plans for a given busy night.
The one night when the "concierge" at our hotel wanted to help DH make a special dinner for MY birthday (I had the week planned) she wanted us to go to Procope. I could have suggested a lot of other places, but didn't want to hurt feelings. It IS one of the "premier" restaurants in Paris and it was a night of total and complete catastrophe from start to finish.

Here's where I disagree--I would NOT use a guide like Michael. Your group does NOT want to be together 24/7, so members of the party having to be trapped in "guide world" will resent either being there or paying for it. It might cause more problems than it solves.

Back to restos...
If you all want to eat together, someone in your group MUST do restaurant homework. And someone must do it ASAP. We're not talking Cheesecake Factory size places here. Room is limited.

Your hotel concierge cannot be your group's travel planner. He/She can help, but he/she cannot make up your mind for you. Someone needs to pick 6 restaurants (and look for the seating--a little bistro ain't gonna do it) and then email/phone those places hoping that four of them will work. Alternative-you could also ask the concierge to make arrangements any four of those six picks that are available for 10 persons but you must do it ASAP. And then be prepared to come up with alternative restaurants.

Actually, whoever does the restaurant arrangements should start their Google search with "Paris restaurants for groups".

Well, Allessandrowhoever. If you have never had Michael show you around, you "may" not know what you are talking about. Would they be better off riding around in a Cityrama coach, or the HOHO bus--for more money, by the way. BUT you have your opinion, and it is fine. Not everyone needs to go--that's fine. If Michael is available and some want to go, it could be a GREAT way to spend a day in Paris, and do a lot more than you can on your own--IF you don't know Paris very well. I suggest you don't knock if if you haven't done it FOR A GROUP.

By all means, have hotel staff make reservations for you. You do the research and provide them with restaurants and phone #s by e-mail asap. For 10, you need as much lead time as possible.

For starters, consider Bofinger. It is a large and attractive restaurant (brasserie) and I have seen groups there.

Wow! Thank you so much for all these responses.

Regarding Michael -- I emailed him and am waiting for a response. Then I'll report back to my fellow travelers.

I have also emailed Le Florimond and am also waiting for a response there.

I then emailed my travel group with your suggestions (i.e., make reservations QUICK!) and provided the Trip Advisor Paris Restaurants Review link as well as The Fork's website link -- and asked everyone to research both sites and come up with their choices.

I don't mind contacting the restaurants if everyone else does the research.

I did email our hotel concierge and asked a few basic questions a few weeks ago and never got a response, so I'm not certain I'll get any kind of assistance from him/her.

Oh...and....I think someone asked this question -- our travel group consists of my aunts and uncles, all in their mid to late 60's, so at 51 my cousin and I are the youngest of the group.

Since I did all the hotel bookings (London, Paris, Bayeux, Amboise, St Remy de Provence and Nice as well as the car rentals) I guess they look to me to do the remaining things like book dinner reservations. Someone other than me did book theater tickets and transportation from the airport/hotel. I've been working on this trip since January.

And all your advice has been invaluable to me, thank you again!

To visit Versailles or not is a good issue to debate. If you are anything of a history buff, and have an interest in the violence of the French Revolution and its antecedents, then I recommend Versailles. You will see first hand considerable evidence of the opulence of court life versus the poverty of the common folks. Perhaps the quote "Let them eat cake." is apocryphal, but it illustrates the complacency as well as the social ignorance and indifference of the aristocracy, Little wonder that anything royal or even seeming to be royal got its head knocked off.

I noted that many of the statues in the gardens of Versailles had definite lines in the neck which indicated that the head had been reattached. The real people who were led to the guillotine in what is now Place de la Concorde did not have the option of having their heads reattached.

As for Giverny, I suggest it only if you are a Monet fanatic.
If you are, but want to see more of his paintings, then I would visit Musee Marmottan and Musee d'Orsay.

My wife and I did both Versailles and Girverny on our own. The bus from the station in Vernon filled, so we shared a cab to Giverny. As for Versailles, we were there when the ticket windows opened. We got as far as the king's bedroom before the first wave of tour groups caught us and in a flash, it seemed, the Hall of Mirrors was full of people.

The one tour that might be worth the cost is a trip to Vaux le Vicomte and Fontainebleau. These are of interest to architecture buffs and those interested in history.
Melun, the nearest train station to Vaux le Vicomte is on the same rail line that runs between Gare de Lyon to Fontainebleau.

You can do the tour on your on, but to save money you need to hit the bus schedule just right to go from the train station in Melun to the Chateau. In my opinion the candlelight tour is not worth it; it is dark and you cannot see much, particularly the restored gardens originally designed by Andre le Notre.

We've decided to get to Versailles as early as possible to try to beat the crowds.

The others in my group might do both Versailles and Giverny, but my fiance and I will head back to Paris after Versailles.

Although Fontainbleau sounds appealing, I don't think we'll have enough time to travel there.

I was under the impression that L'Orangerie has the most Monet paintings, but looks like I'm going to Musee d'Orsay instead.

Thank you!

Bummer!

Just got my first response from FL Restaurant -- they cannot accommodate our group (even though I said we don't need to sit together).

Heavy Sigh.

Don't forget that many museums have late night openings - check the days, think its Wed for Louvre, Thu for d'Orsay, and nearly every day bar one for Pompidou.

If you want to do the wandering Parisian streets thing - don't forget Le Marais - easily my favourite quarter in Paris (great food, trendy stores, lots of young hip Parisians and unlike the Latin Quarter not just full of tourist tat).

If you're really into the Impressionists you could consider skipping the Louvre - and spending longer at d'Orsay.

The Orangerie has the Water Lilies and has just reopened in the past few years so has gotten a lot of coverage. There are many others,even of the water lilies, and the Marmottan may have the most "telling" ones as Monet lost his eyesight.
I never have any trouble skipping the Louvre in favor of the Orsay, but when we took our family, with Michael, he gave us a 2-3 hour tour (much like Gilligan) which was wonderful, and included the "biggies" in passing, the Napoleon exhibit which was there at the time, but amazingly, the basement "archaeology" of how the chateau was built, and the stones marked by the artisans. OH, and The Davinci Code "sites", right or wrong!!
But again, if you go to the Louvre, get a guide book and choose your wings according to your tastes.
The Orsay is a treasure to me, most especially for the incredible interior that was the Gare. Just looking at it and what it has become as galleries is spectacular. Looking at SacreCoeur through the immense Gare clock is a photo op not to be missed!!
For a one hour "tour" that I consider "worth it", go into the Cluny and see the Lady and the Unicorn tapestries.
Another possible one hour museum visit that I love is the French Revolution floor of the Carnavalet (which is free), and especially the room of the "cartoons" of the time.
And of course there is the Rodin museum--small and accessible.
You didn't ask for a museum suggestion, but in a limited time, you may not have considered some things that are wonderful and can really be done in a zoom fashion.

Surely I'm misreading you, and your group is not contemplating doing Giverny and Versailles the same day? That would be impossible, as Versailles alone can easily take the entire day. We spent the better part of the day at Giverny as well, including travel time.

We were at Giverny last week and the flowers were gorgeous! I don't understand the comments about it not being worthwhile the first week in October. It has been very warm in Paris, 70's and 80's the past couple of weeks until the very end of this past week, and then it was upper 60's for a couple of days. I would think that in any case, the gardens are seasonally planted, so there is beauty even in the fall. I realize you are not planning to go, but I wouldn't dissuade others in your group from going because it "won't be worth seeing then".

I'm a Monet fan as well, and although the Orangerie has many of his paintings (the infamous water lilies of course, where I witnessed one woman burst into tears when she walked into the room), I think you might enjoy the Orsay as much or more. I could have spent a full day just on the 5th floor. Head to that floor first, early in the day, and work your way down. The museum pass is worth its weight in gold just for avoiding lines, which are extremely long at both the Louvre and Orsay!

If you find you can't get Michael, I would definitely do one of the Paris Walks.http://www.paris-walks.com This is our third trip, but first Paris Walk tour (2 hours) and we regret not doing more--it was fantastic! That was our last day, Friday...had we done it earlier, we'd have made a point of doing several more. Our guide, Chris, was so personable, and engaging. It was thoroughly enjoyable and worth ever euro spent (24 euro for 2)! Our walk was Hemmingway's Paris, and there are others for Ile de la Cite, the Marais, Montmartre, and Saint Germain-des-Pres. No need for reservations, just show up at the metro stop.

Have a wonderful trip!

Bravo for your decision to leave Versailles until last day for flexibility (and to arrive when they open their doors if you do go).

You WILL end up splitting into two or three groups most of the time - surely the least stressful way to go.

A RESERVATION for dinners at the end of the day is essential advice and will be great for everyone to compare notes on what the did and saw that day. Many restaurants don't open until 8:00 pm for dinner and don't fill up until after 9:00. Plan on a relaxing and convivial two hours for your group dinners - they will be a highlight of your trip.

Sounds like your ready to go. Encourage each person IN your group to research what they are interested in and finalize each days adventures including who is going where at the communal breakfast each morning.

y (and to arrive when they open their doors if you do go).>

Again with the Paris Museum Card there is not worry about being there when they open their doors - and try to marshall your museums into the few days the card will be valid - just a few like Louvre, Orsay and Versailles can make the card pay off and again no waiting in lines.

I think the whole point of Giverny is the gardens (main point, anyway) and that is why I would not recommend going there in October. Sure, they may be seasonally planted, but I know what that means and that isn't the way I would be interested in seeing them. I did enjoy seeing the house/workshop but would not go just for that.

I do not consider the gardens the raison d'etre of Versailles, on the other hand. If you did, then surely that would make a difference as to your interest in going in October, but I don't go there mainly to see the gardens. If I wanted to do that, I wouldn't bother and would go somewhere easier.

I think the whole point of Giverny is the gardens (main point, anyway) and that is why I would not recommend going there in October. Sure, they may be seasonally planted, but I know what that means and that isn't the way I would be interested in seeing them. I did enjoy seeing the house/workshop but would not go just for that.

I do not consider the gardens the raison d'etre of Versailles, on the other hand. If you did, then surely that would make a difference as to your interest in going in October, but I don't go there mainly to see the gardens. If I wanted to do that, I wouldn't bother and would go somewhere easier.

the gardens at Versailles include tropical plants that are brought into the Orangery or whatever in the winter - the gardens in October should still be beuateous.

I'm glad you are going to the D'Orsay. IMO, it's one of the not to be missed attractions of Paris. The building alone - a converted RR station - is impressive enough to warrant a visit, altho' the collection is superb. It is also open in the evening, altho' I forget which night.

I don't think your list is too extensive. E.g., Notre Dame, Ste. Chappelle, Ile St. Louis are all together, and if you just want to see some sites and not go to the top (e.g., Eiffel Tower; Arc de Triomphe?), I think you could probably fit most of the sites into 3 days and evenings, and still have time for Versailles.
I love Giverny but it is a full day trip by train and in October, the gardens will not be in full bloom, so it is skippable this trip.

Set your priorities, play it by ear and be flexible, and enjoy.

If Versailles is too far from Paris to 'waste a day' going out there when there is so so so much to see and do in Paris itself then why does the Paris Museum Card cover it?

PalenQ - For visitors staying a week or more?

Christina is right (as usual). October just is not the month for Giverny. Weather isn't the issue--blooming season IS the issue (my garden right now is still glorious in the NE USA; in one month it will be brown except for the potted mums I'll be scattering through it to try to give it a little umph). But I think you got that drift already, Judy.

On the other hand, we did Versailles in freezing cold weather and pouring rain. We didn't do the gardens, obviously. But the inside was so wonderful. And the trip from Paris is so doable. I'm still sticking with my rec to leave it for the last day for flexibility for your group members, but I think you're hearing that I think it's easily doable no matter what the weather for those who want to go. No need to get a tour guide--audioguides work just fine if you want them.

Back to Monet. I'm holding my ground--I'd do the L'Orangerie first and foremost, Judy. It's Monet plus Giverny talking. I spent an hour going from the one of the big two rooms to the other. I'd sit, stare, turn, sit, stare, turn, walk to the next room, sit, stare, turn. And the outside light changes everything. I adore the d'Orsay--it's just across the river!--but if l'Orangerie is enough art for you at the point, that's OK! It's YOUR trip!!!!!! And if you say, "Gee, I'd like to see more of these guys Monet hung with" then stroll across the bridge.

Remember, you never need to see ALL the floors of any museum. Again, it's your time and your trip.

Gretchen, this Allessandrowhoever talking. As Judy Rosa made quite clear, there will people in this group who will hate "forced marches." Michael might be wonderful for some of them, and I have recommended Michael to many other people. Look up my zillion-and-two posts to verify. Also see that I have consistently detested HOHO buses and have consistently provided public bus routes that do that same thing for 1/2 the cost (without the darn Tower of Babel earphones). But I can tell you that my brother-in-law would have hated me for forcing him into a Paris-through-Michael vision. And Judy has to go home and live with this family afterwards. If people want to sign up with him, fine! If they don't, that's fine, too.

Judy, I should have warned you about Le Florimond as soon as you mentioned it. I love that place. But it's teeny. And that's the problem--almost everything is teeny. This reservation bit is where I fear for you. Go with God.

Thank you Alessandra! I agree with you on all points. I did email Michael for information, haven't heard back yet. Once he responds I'll let my family know and give everyone the 'yea' or 'nay' option.

Versailles is scheduled for our last day so that we can then decide if we have enough time to get there. I, personally, will make the time as I really want to visit there.

Le Florimond -- I fear you may be right on that as well. Our hotel concierge DID email me back offering assistance on booking dinner reservations for us. So far we all agree on Le Florimond and Bofinger. I'm emailing this request to the concierge and we'll see how that goes.

We're also looking for a restaurant (good food, nice atmosphere, not too expensive) near the Louvre for our Wednesday evening dinner as we plan on visiting the Louvre during their Wednesday evening hours.

Any suggestions?

Allesandro, just to be clear. I also had a son-in-law that I KNEW would hate what you are calling forced marches, and told everyone in the group that Michael was available, and EVERYONE could do as they wanted. It was THAT son in law that absolutely LOVED MIchael. Everyone wanted him to do another day with us--or just come and hang out with us!! His "tour" is not "pedantic". He is a wonderful anecdotal style of teacher for history and art, for example. DD is interested in vintage/classic clothing so we included that in a part of a tour.
Other days we split up into whoever wanted to do something, and maybe had a meeting place later in the day. Definitely not joined at the hip.
The person who suggested everyone do their own research is right on.
I wasn't referring to you about the HO buses--Rosa had suggested it I believe.
Maybe eat at Cafe Marly IN the Louvre?
I think St. Cirq (Maybe elsewhere) and I both warned that florimond might not accomodate you. We were 8, but Michael reserved for us months ahead.
Again, another we enjoyed was Au Piano Muet. It is a raclette restaurant which is interesting--grilling at the table, either meat or cheese. VERY reasonable and fun but still small and attractive.
A fun and funny restaurant is La Grenouille somewhere in the 6th I think.
We also have enjoyed Bistro du 7eme. You don't really have to go to the big (and very good) places like Bofinger, but you do need to search them out and reserve.
You could probably even reserve upstairs at Fontaine de Mars, where the Obamas ate. AND the food is excellent.

Alessandra, Judy isn't going in one month, she is going in two weeks. I was just there and the gardens are in gorgeous bloom, not fall bloom yet, still summer bloom. They will not be gone in two weeks unless the weather does a drastic turnaround and they have a freeze. Although Judy is not interested in Giverny, others in her group are, and I certainly would not dissuade them from going! Two weeks time is simply not going to erase what I just saw last week!

Giverny's own website says all the annuals will be blooming in October until the first freeze. http://giverny.org/gardens/fcm/calendar.htm A quick google search brings up several threads, two of them with responses from people who have been during October. (One was the tripadvisor Paris forum, the other Bonjour Paris). One describes the flowers in his October visit as "just exquisite".

I'll post a link here to some of my photos later today, if for no other value than to show what a beautiful place Giverny is. If I only had 4 days in Paris, however, I wouldn't consider either that OR Versailles. There is just too much to be seen and done in Paris itself.

Yes, we leave next week! First 3 days in London, then off to Paris and points beyond.

At this point my focus is trying to get dinner reservations made that will accommodate our large group.

I believe our entire group will visit Versailles -- whether Giverny is still on the others' list is up to them as I've made my own choice not to go.

Haven't even begun to figure out the rest of our trip (Normandy, Amboise, Provence, Nice)!

I haven't heard back from Michael as yet, so again, that might be moot at this point since we are so close to departure.

Judy hits Paris the first week of October. Read original post.

Plus rain starts to increase now. And that's why if some of her tripmates want to do an out-of-Paris trip during their four very precious days, I'd vote for Versailles which has redeeming qualities in rain, snow, or sun.

I can recommend the Hotel Bayeux for your group in well, Bayeux. It is SUPER economical, on one floor, the rooms are larger than many I've had in France. Car park next door. 5 minutes from the Tapestry and 5 minutes from the Cathedral.
How are you getting to these other places, etc.

I always feel overwhelmed by the Louvre. Really love d'Orsay, Marmottan, and l'Orangerie. Different experiences at each. LOrangerie is amazing for the huge walls of Monet's paintings. Exquisite. Nothing else like it. Orsay is a must see for its architecture as well as vast collection of Impressionists' work. Loved Degas' sculpted ballet dancer, Monet's work, and Van Gogh's, especially his starry night painting. And Marmotan is in a non touristy neighborhood with a great mix of Monets and other artists. Loved the Monets, and I revisited the Sunrise painting numerous times before finally saying goodbye to it until the next visit.

Cafe Constant is excellent. They open at 7 and take no reservations. Arriving at 7 you will see a line waiting for it to open, but I would think they would accommodate your group at a number of tables.

Loved Giverny in late May, but not sure what I would say about an early October visit. If that was my only visit to Paris and I loved Monet, I guess I would go for it. Still, I agree that there is so much to see in Paris. Haven't made it to Versailles yet, but it's on my list!

I have been to Giverny 3 times-twice in October and once in May. I preferred it in October. It closes sometime in October. The town is pretty and it is certainly a full day trip. The Marmottan is in a nice Parisian neighbourhood. Versaillese is also a trip that takes the better part of a day, if you don't want to race through it. Both are easy to get to on your own With four days you have to prioritize. if the weather is good you might feel like doing something outdoors. Don't lock every minute in.

I've already booked all our hotels for the remainder of our trip. We've also rented cars as we will be driving from Paris to the other locations, ending in Nice for the last 3 days.

We fly home from Nice.

I haven't made any definite plans for the remainder of the trip, nor do we have a set itinerary. We are devoting 1.5 days to the D-Day Beaches in Normandy. But other than that, the rest of our trip is 'supposed' to be leisurely, with no definite 'must-do's' until we reach Nice.

Eze and Monaco are the only places we all definitely want to visit.

Great news! Our concierge got our group reservations at Le Florimond!

So excited!

She also booked Bofinger for us which is also wonderful but I'm really looking forward to Le Florimond since it's at the top of everyone's list here.

Now.....we're visiting the Louvre Wednesday night (their late night). Any suggestions on where to have dinner near the Louvre?

I am 'almost' done!

You really might think about making Monaco (if you must go) a drive by.

I think we're just taking a train or bus there for a few hours.

Good morning!

I received an email from our concierge suggesting the following restaurants for dinner when we visit the Louvre Wednesday evening:

Le Café Marly

Restaurant Le Soufflé

Restaurnant L'Auberge Saint Roch

These are all located at or near the Louvre (?)

Your thoughts?

I must say I am impressed by our hotel's concierge, they have been really prompt in offering assistance.

They are all very near the Louvre.

I think L'Auberge Saint Roch looks best for a large diverse group. Traditional and more modern options in a cozy charming space. Also, being run by second and third generation Paris restaurateurs is a good sign. The prices are good to boot. 26€ for entrée plus plat plus dessert (coffee & wine extra).

Regarding the other two:

What if everyone doesn't want a soufflé? Specialty restaurants are more suited to a couple who both want the specialty (e.g. a soufflé), IMO.

Le Café Marly has mixed reviews on TA. Very expensive for "OK" food, high tourists clientele but gorgeous views of the Louvre.

Our group is leaning towards L'Auberge Saint Roch for the same reasons you've stated.

That's where I think we'll go.

We might go to the souffle place for lunch, would like to experience authentic Parisian souffle.

Thank you!

If you love Monet paintings, and you don't need to take the whole group with you all the time, I highly recommend zipping out to the Marmottan, even as a joy ride in a taxi. There are few places so dedicated to showcasing Monet at his best advantage. Skip a pastry to pay for the taxi. It will be a great sensual, delicious treat for the eyes, even if you only spend 45 minutes there. It's an only-in-Paris delight.

http://www.marmottan.com/english/informations-pratiques/infos.asp

The point of Monet's gardens is really not blooming flowers, although of course it is great when they are in full swing. It is the fascination of seeing how Monet applied his artistic eye to garden design, to nourish his own spirit and find inspiration. It probably does mean most to people who are themselves students of painting and art or landscape design, so if that is not your approach, you might not want to put the time into getting there.

Wow...long thread. I did not have time to read the whole thing but I did want to say that if you are looking for a great tour company to do Versailles or Giverny try Fat Tire Bike Tours (http://fattirebiketours.com/paris). I used them on several trips to Paris for many tours including walking and bike tours. LOVE them. I can not say enough about how friendly and helpful they are. They are American and the tour guides are very knowledgable. Also, they are great for all age groups. I used them for myself and my husband and also for my mom and myself. Wonderful company!

Just got back -- absolutely LOVED Versailles! We saved our trip there for the last day and the timing was perfect. Beautiful weather -- perfect day!

Le Florimond was fantastic, but we canceled Bofinger because some of us got a little under the weather, so instead of Bofinger my DH and I went to Relais de Entrecote for dinner then around the corner to Cafe de Flores for dessert. It was FABULOUS!

Thank you for all your advice.