Venice Is Charging More To Tourists
Aug 9th, 2007, 05:28 AM
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Aug 9th, 2007, 05:57 AM
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I think it is unfortunate to flag the banner of racism for anything we do not like.
I do not see what does it have to do with RACE !!
Many tourist are polite and take good care of the places they visit but lately a massive tourism comes down places like if coming from some " forest" of bad manners and everything goes. This is what locals do not like and has nothing to do with race as far as I see it.
I do not see what does it have to do with RACE !!
Many tourist are polite and take good care of the places they visit but lately a massive tourism comes down places like if coming from some " forest" of bad manners and everything goes. This is what locals do not like and has nothing to do with race as far as I see it.
Aug 9th, 2007, 05:59 AM
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I'm sorry to disagree and say that nobody "deserves" to be ripped off.
But this sort of behavior shouldn't surprise anyone who has any knowledge of Venice's history...they've been stealing for centuries including a lot of those "artifacts" we have come to love so much.
I would agree with this quote from the cited piece:
"In the end, the cunning owners will always find a way to add one euro here or two euros there."
But this sort of behavior shouldn't surprise anyone who has any knowledge of Venice's history...they've been stealing for centuries including a lot of those "artifacts" we have come to love so much.
I would agree with this quote from the cited piece:
"In the end, the cunning owners will always find a way to add one euro here or two euros there."
Aug 9th, 2007, 06:02 AM
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Please...read the advertising, nothing is said about needing to know the 'territory'. Who has ever visited a site or such that came close its publicity? Immigrants are pouring into Europe and the US and few ever learn the local language.
Aug 9th, 2007, 06:03 AM
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this is done all over the world to ignorant tourist's as a, for lack of a better word, punishment..
ie:
the cabby in NYC that doesn't turn on the meter ("oops, it is a $50 ride"
the bag boy in Dominican/Cuba/Jamacia that grabs your bag and expects $20 to get it back.
etc...
pay attention, be polite, share, etc... (remember kindergarten)and things work out fine.
although, paying 7E for a espresso on a terrace in st mark's seems to me as a small price to pay given the scenery - its why you're there.
ie:
the cabby in NYC that doesn't turn on the meter ("oops, it is a $50 ride"
the bag boy in Dominican/Cuba/Jamacia that grabs your bag and expects $20 to get it back.
etc...
pay attention, be polite, share, etc... (remember kindergarten)and things work out fine.
although, paying 7E for a espresso on a terrace in st mark's seems to me as a small price to pay given the scenery - its why you're there.
Aug 9th, 2007, 06:04 AM
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<If they get charged extra, they deserve it.>
can't disagree more strongly... what if a British accent triggered a higher price?
or someone wearing a t-shirt a cafe owner objects to, etc.
prices should be universal and stringently enforced by local authorities.
this makes me want to not patronize any Venetian caffes, etc.
if the price charged varies as to the eye of the beholder or ear in this case we're in trouble. that's what happened to Blacks in the U.S. for a long time and probably still does.
not that we all shouldn't try to politely order in local tongue as much as possible.
every caffe i've been in in Italy has posted prices and i believe it's a law that they must give you a receipt that you must take out of the place - this i think to avoid the owner not paying taxes you've paid on the purchase.
I would certainly complain and vocally so right to the bastard who charged me more than the posted rate.
this stinks more than the typical Venetian canal - to high heaven!
can't disagree more strongly... what if a British accent triggered a higher price?
or someone wearing a t-shirt a cafe owner objects to, etc.
prices should be universal and stringently enforced by local authorities.
this makes me want to not patronize any Venetian caffes, etc.
if the price charged varies as to the eye of the beholder or ear in this case we're in trouble. that's what happened to Blacks in the U.S. for a long time and probably still does.
not that we all shouldn't try to politely order in local tongue as much as possible.
every caffe i've been in in Italy has posted prices and i believe it's a law that they must give you a receipt that you must take out of the place - this i think to avoid the owner not paying taxes you've paid on the purchase.
I would certainly complain and vocally so right to the bastard who charged me more than the posted rate.
this stinks more than the typical Venetian canal - to high heaven!
Aug 9th, 2007, 06:10 AM
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I speak fluent Italian and yet just spent several days in Venice, reeling from all the rip off artists. Venice is unlike other Italian cities. Its main industry is tourism and it does very very well attracting people from all over the world.
Too many of the Venetian service providers I dealt with were unscrupulous in their charges. My sense is that the individual tourist is easily replaced, so an attitude of "who cares, get it while you can"prevails.
Yes, it is a stunning city, exotic and interesting, but this will be my last trip there.
Carol L
Too many of the Venetian service providers I dealt with were unscrupulous in their charges. My sense is that the individual tourist is easily replaced, so an attitude of "who cares, get it while you can"prevails.
Yes, it is a stunning city, exotic and interesting, but this will be my last trip there.
Carol L
Aug 9th, 2007, 06:52 AM
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Venice is being crushed by tourism. Resident population is about half what it was 40 years ago, and that trend is continuing, possibly accelerating. (Many believe Venice will have no residents in time, other than hoteliers, shopkeepeers and restaurateurs.) Many of those remaining are indeed serving the tourist industry, and even if they profit from tourism, I don't doubt there is resentment of the hordes. How would you like it if your local fair, festival or what-have-you lasted 52 weeks a year? (Ask anyone anywhere who lives in a resort or tourist area if the visitors don't often wear out their welcome.) Venice takes in 50,000 visitors a day on average, which means a lot more in the summer. Thousands of those debark giant cruise ships that destroy the human scale of the lagoon (not to mention the physical damage), descend on the city like locusts and then disappear, to be replaced by another boatload the next day.
Venice is one of the great places in the world, and tourism may kill her. No surprise that she might snap back - not to defend different price "tiers", which are hardly defensible. But the article says "157 complaints" so far this year, which may or may not seem like a lot in a place that has hosted millions of guests. Note, too, that authorities are trying to do something about it.
If there is a menu or posted price, to pay other than that is naive. As a one-time waiter, I never pay a check without looking at it - mistakes can be made, and far more often than intentional overcharging. (Just last week the party of 5 next to my party of two received OUR check - they did not try to get away with paying just for we two!)
I've never been overcharged in Italy, as far as I know. I think we'd stay saner if we just figure that the local people are getting a "frquent flyer" discount. Every tourist spot seems to have inflated prices - and I think it is fair to charge your neighbors (who will be there tomorrow and next month and in bad weather as well) less. Though not to charge anyone more than the posted rate.
Venice is one of the great places in the world, and tourism may kill her. No surprise that she might snap back - not to defend different price "tiers", which are hardly defensible. But the article says "157 complaints" so far this year, which may or may not seem like a lot in a place that has hosted millions of guests. Note, too, that authorities are trying to do something about it.
If there is a menu or posted price, to pay other than that is naive. As a one-time waiter, I never pay a check without looking at it - mistakes can be made, and far more often than intentional overcharging. (Just last week the party of 5 next to my party of two received OUR check - they did not try to get away with paying just for we two!)
I've never been overcharged in Italy, as far as I know. I think we'd stay saner if we just figure that the local people are getting a "frquent flyer" discount. Every tourist spot seems to have inflated prices - and I think it is fair to charge your neighbors (who will be there tomorrow and next month and in bad weather as well) less. Though not to charge anyone more than the posted rate.
Aug 9th, 2007, 07:11 AM
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tomassocroccante wrote: "That should be "IL conto" - saying "el" will make you sound ... like a tourist."
I think the Venetians would suss me anyway. But I'll try "Ti mi fa il conto?" when I visit Berlin later this year, and see if people mistake me for one of their own.
I think the Venetians would suss me anyway. But I'll try "Ti mi fa il conto?" when I visit Berlin later this year, and see if people mistake me for one of their own.
Aug 9th, 2007, 07:29 AM
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Geee...and I'm planning on being there in a few months. So the price I see on the menu may not be what I'm charged? And do those same Italians speak German if they go to Germany, Hungarian if they go to Hungary, etc. I doubt it!!
Aug 9th, 2007, 08:01 AM
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I totally agree with PalenQ. I'm going to Venice in a month. This article makes me a little nervous about being overcharged. I am taking an Italian class right now, but I have a feeling that won't really make a difference.
Aug 9th, 2007, 08:07 AM
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Prices are posted or in the menu from which you will order. Prices will be higher because you are in Venice. If a price isn't posted and you're concerned about the price, ask how much something costs. The way locals get a lower price is that they receive a discount at the moment they pay.
Aug 9th, 2007, 08:14 AM
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I lived in a town in Wales where they had many summer tourists.
In all the shops where I bought food, I would be charged less than the "summer" prices.
It was the same in the local cafes.
That sort of thing must be pretty widespread.
In all the shops where I bought food, I would be charged less than the "summer" prices.
It was the same in the local cafes.
That sort of thing must be pretty widespread.
Aug 9th, 2007, 08:21 AM
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This is much ado about nothing, or about little. That British newspaper didn't understand much of the situation in Venice. There a two completely distinct phenomenons:
1. People who try to cheat - charging prices higher than those officially posted (note: every bar is forced by law to publicly post their price list somewhere inside the venue). Of course, this exists in Venice as well as in every other town or city all over the whole wide world. I'd not say it's particularly widespread in Venice; certainly less widespread than in Southern Italy, but certainly more likely to be encountered in Venice than in an Umbrian hilltown.
2. Different price levels for patrons and strangers. This is typically Venetian, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Venice is an expensive city, and must be an expensive city - how else could modern life go on there? Just think how much shlepping on and off boats, over bridges and through narrow lanes is involved until you can sip your glass of mineral water... The problem is that though people are by no means poor in Venice, even the locals cannot afford to constantly pay these prices - that's why THEY are getting are a discount. It's NOT that you as a tourist are paying more; you are actually paying the "real" price, and the patrons are paying less. This goes without saying in Venice, to the extent of the city of Venice granting kind of a subsidy to the residents by selling them - all officially, get me right! - the vaporetto tickets for a fractional amount of what foreigners have to pay. And bars and restaurants are doing the same, privately. We all have to be glad about this practice, because it ensures that Venice will remain populated (Tom: the so-called dwindling of the Venetian population is the inevitable consequence of modern housing standards - I guess you haven't seen many of the dark, humid rat holes that used to accomodate whole families in Venice fourty years ago and are nowadays only being considered suitable as magazines, if at all) - if the locals had to pay the official, real prices, the population would REALLY dwindle.
And now comes the important thing: this is not at all racism (actually, a ridiculous statement) - it has nothing to do with nationality! A Venetian who eats at a restaurant where he is not a patron will inevitably pay the official price, like a tourist; a frequent tourist who attends that same restaurant regularly will pay the local (discounted) price, like I'm doing in many bars and restaurants in Venice - I'm visiting Venice average three times a year. And yes, to establish this kind of contact to waiters and owners, so that they regard and treat you as their patron (even if you are a tourist), it's helpful to speak and understand some Italian - at least, we're talking about establishing a personal contact, mind you. And since this is about discounts off the official prices, yes, it's also a matter of sympathy, and of the owner's mood - again, not because you are a tourist, but for everyone. One of my Venetian acquaintances is a lawyer who told me recently that he went to the same restaurant twice within a couple of weeks - a restaurant where he is known, of course. The first time, when they didn't have much work to do and the atmosphere was relaxed, they granted him a pretty discount. The second time, the place was full and busy, and the discount he got was minimal - he paid about 25 or 30 percent more than two or three weeks earlier! That doesn't mean, though, that he was being ripped off the second time - nobody has a right to get a discount, not even a patron, and a born Venetian...
1. People who try to cheat - charging prices higher than those officially posted (note: every bar is forced by law to publicly post their price list somewhere inside the venue). Of course, this exists in Venice as well as in every other town or city all over the whole wide world. I'd not say it's particularly widespread in Venice; certainly less widespread than in Southern Italy, but certainly more likely to be encountered in Venice than in an Umbrian hilltown.
2. Different price levels for patrons and strangers. This is typically Venetian, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Venice is an expensive city, and must be an expensive city - how else could modern life go on there? Just think how much shlepping on and off boats, over bridges and through narrow lanes is involved until you can sip your glass of mineral water... The problem is that though people are by no means poor in Venice, even the locals cannot afford to constantly pay these prices - that's why THEY are getting are a discount. It's NOT that you as a tourist are paying more; you are actually paying the "real" price, and the patrons are paying less. This goes without saying in Venice, to the extent of the city of Venice granting kind of a subsidy to the residents by selling them - all officially, get me right! - the vaporetto tickets for a fractional amount of what foreigners have to pay. And bars and restaurants are doing the same, privately. We all have to be glad about this practice, because it ensures that Venice will remain populated (Tom: the so-called dwindling of the Venetian population is the inevitable consequence of modern housing standards - I guess you haven't seen many of the dark, humid rat holes that used to accomodate whole families in Venice fourty years ago and are nowadays only being considered suitable as magazines, if at all) - if the locals had to pay the official, real prices, the population would REALLY dwindle.
And now comes the important thing: this is not at all racism (actually, a ridiculous statement) - it has nothing to do with nationality! A Venetian who eats at a restaurant where he is not a patron will inevitably pay the official price, like a tourist; a frequent tourist who attends that same restaurant regularly will pay the local (discounted) price, like I'm doing in many bars and restaurants in Venice - I'm visiting Venice average three times a year. And yes, to establish this kind of contact to waiters and owners, so that they regard and treat you as their patron (even if you are a tourist), it's helpful to speak and understand some Italian - at least, we're talking about establishing a personal contact, mind you. And since this is about discounts off the official prices, yes, it's also a matter of sympathy, and of the owner's mood - again, not because you are a tourist, but for everyone. One of my Venetian acquaintances is a lawyer who told me recently that he went to the same restaurant twice within a couple of weeks - a restaurant where he is known, of course. The first time, when they didn't have much work to do and the atmosphere was relaxed, they granted him a pretty discount. The second time, the place was full and busy, and the discount he got was minimal - he paid about 25 or 30 percent more than two or three weeks earlier! That doesn't mean, though, that he was being ripped off the second time - nobody has a right to get a discount, not even a patron, and a born Venetian...
