Using the Railcards
Mar 31st, 2017, 08:52 AM
#1
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Using the Railcards
I'm a bit confused.
I booked my tickets for London to Edinburgh through Virgin Train line. I selected Family and Friends card. I didn't see whether it actually gave me a discount or I'm supposed to show up at the train station and present the card and it would credit me then?
I'm not positively sure how it is supposed to work.
I haven't ordered my Family and Friends Railcard and when I attempted to, it was asking me for a UK address so I stopped.
I then proceeded to email their customer support and they just got back to me and stated that they don't ship cards to non-UK based address and that I would need to purchase one at one of the rail stations. From there to present it.
Is that how it's supposed to work?
At the end of the day I'm trying to figure out whether buying the railcard would actually save me savings.
I booked my tickets for London to Edinburgh through Virgin Train line. I selected Family and Friends card. I didn't see whether it actually gave me a discount or I'm supposed to show up at the train station and present the card and it would credit me then?
I'm not positively sure how it is supposed to work.
I haven't ordered my Family and Friends Railcard and when I attempted to, it was asking me for a UK address so I stopped.
I then proceeded to email their customer support and they just got back to me and stated that they don't ship cards to non-UK based address and that I would need to purchase one at one of the rail stations. From there to present it.
Is that how it's supposed to work?
At the end of the day I'm trying to figure out whether buying the railcard would actually save me savings.
Mar 31st, 2017, 09:05 AM
#2
You should get the discount when booking.
You cannot order the rail card from home. What you do is book the tickets as if you had the card already in hand. And then when you get to the UK you buy the rail card before or when you are picking up the tickets.
How many are traveling? If only two of you, look at the '2 traveling together' rail card
You cannot order the rail card from home. What you do is book the tickets as if you had the card already in hand. And then when you get to the UK you buy the rail card before or when you are picking up the tickets.
How many are traveling? If only two of you, look at the '2 traveling together' rail card
Mar 31st, 2017, 09:32 AM
#3
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If you've already bought the train tickets saying you have a railcard, you have to buy the railcard. The type of railcard will be printed on the tickets, and the tickets are not valid for travel without that railcard. If you can't show it to the ticket inspector on the train, you will be charged a penalty fare. The discount will already have been applied (try making a dummy booking with and without, so you can see) It's easy to buy the railcard at your departure station when you get here, just have it in hand before you board the train.
Mar 31st, 2017, 12:01 PM
#4
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OK yes, when I did book the tickets, I did select the Family and Friends rail card as if I had it on hand. I'm assuming the price that I paid when selecting this option actually was the discount already. I guess I have to look at it again because it's not clear whether there was a discount or not? Is there a way to tell?
In either case, I'll have to purchase the card at Kings Cross when I get there in the morning. I'm hoping they have it at the station early in the morning? My train departs at 8am. Unless I should go get the rail card when I get the chance earlier .. let's say on another day before the train ride so I don't have to go through the hassle?
In either case, I'll have to purchase the card at Kings Cross when I get there in the morning. I'm hoping they have it at the station early in the morning? My train departs at 8am. Unless I should go get the rail card when I get the chance earlier .. let's say on another day before the train ride so I don't have to go through the hassle?
Mar 31st, 2017, 12:28 PM
#5
>>I'm hoping they have it at the station early in the morning?<<
Yes they will have it. But the station will be very busy at that time of day. So there might be long lines at the ticket window where you buy the railcard.
So I'd definitely >> get the rail card when I get the chance earlier .. << -- you can do it at any train station -- not just at Kings Cross.
Yes they will have it. But the station will be very busy at that time of day. So there might be long lines at the ticket window where you buy the railcard.
So I'd definitely >> get the rail card when I get the chance earlier .. << -- you can do it at any train station -- not just at Kings Cross.
Apr 1st, 2017, 06:36 AM
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<i> What you do is book the tickets as if you had the card already in hand. </i>
I would very much like to believe that this is accepted by the members of Britrail, but I'm wary as a non-UK resident of running afoul of British contract law, at least as interpreted by most rail officials.
A railcard is a contract, that has a specific period of validity. The ones I've researched are one year contracts that, as I interpret the situation, become valid the day I meet certain terms - surrender payment, and in some cases, photos. In exchange, the railcard contract conveys on me certain rights - to wit, the right to book of rail tickets at preferential prices. Beginning the date the railcard becomes valid, not before.
Problem: I'm not saying you are wrong, janisj, but I'm perplexed: How can I avail myself of the rights of a contract, i.e. book tickets at the prices offered for that railcard - in advance of the commencement of the contract? If I buy a railcard on Sept 1, 2017, it presumably expires Sept 1, 2018. Or does it begin on the earliest date that I started booking tickets, as if I had paid for a contract when I in fact had yet to do so?
Situation: I'm on a train, I show the conductor my tickets, purchased oh, say, April 1, 2017, in respect of a railcard dated September 1, 2017. Conductor could arguably say I fraudulently bought those tickets, and nullify them on the spot.
I would very much like to believe that this is accepted by the members of Britrail, but I'm wary as a non-UK resident of running afoul of British contract law, at least as interpreted by most rail officials.
A railcard is a contract, that has a specific period of validity. The ones I've researched are one year contracts that, as I interpret the situation, become valid the day I meet certain terms - surrender payment, and in some cases, photos. In exchange, the railcard contract conveys on me certain rights - to wit, the right to book of rail tickets at preferential prices. Beginning the date the railcard becomes valid, not before.
Problem: I'm not saying you are wrong, janisj, but I'm perplexed: How can I avail myself of the rights of a contract, i.e. book tickets at the prices offered for that railcard - in advance of the commencement of the contract? If I buy a railcard on Sept 1, 2017, it presumably expires Sept 1, 2018. Or does it begin on the earliest date that I started booking tickets, as if I had paid for a contract when I in fact had yet to do so?
Situation: I'm on a train, I show the conductor my tickets, purchased oh, say, April 1, 2017, in respect of a railcard dated September 1, 2017. Conductor could arguably say I fraudulently bought those tickets, and nullify them on the spot.
Apr 1st, 2017, 07:09 AM
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The reason I raise this is that the option for buying a railcard on line only exists for those who can have said railcard mailed to a UK address (their own, or in my case, a UK resident friend who then mails the railcard to my overseas address.)
The online option indicates that the railcard is generally delivered to that UK address in five working days. So there can sometimes be a disconnect between a person's buying a railcard, and wishing to use that railcard - they buy it on, for example, Monday, April 2, 2017, and want to use it in respect of travel on Wednesday, April 4, 2017 - before the post office has had a chance to deliver it.
What we're talking about for those without a UK mailing address is a disconnect in the opposite direction - buying for travel as if one has paid for the railcard when one has not, as opposed to buying for travel when one has paid for a railcard, but merely hasn't received it yet.
The online option indicates that the railcard is generally delivered to that UK address in five working days. So there can sometimes be a disconnect between a person's buying a railcard, and wishing to use that railcard - they buy it on, for example, Monday, April 2, 2017, and want to use it in respect of travel on Wednesday, April 4, 2017 - before the post office has had a chance to deliver it.
What we're talking about for those without a UK mailing address is a disconnect in the opposite direction - buying for travel as if one has paid for the railcard when one has not, as opposed to buying for travel when one has paid for a railcard, but merely hasn't received it yet.
Apr 1st, 2017, 07:14 AM
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Sorry if anyone finds contract terms complicated, but they still apply.
From https://www.twotogether-railcard.co....your-railcard/
<i> If we have your email address, we'll send you a reminder that your Railcard is due for renewal. But remember, it's your responsibility to check that your Railcard is in date <b> before buying </b> or using Railcard discounted tickets.
What part about checking that your Railcard is in date, before buying Railcard discounted tickets, do people have trouble understanding?
From https://www.twotogether-railcard.co....your-railcard/
<i> If we have your email address, we'll send you a reminder that your Railcard is due for renewal. But remember, it's your responsibility to check that your Railcard is in date <b> before buying </b> or using Railcard discounted tickets.
What part about checking that your Railcard is in date, before buying Railcard discounted tickets, do people have trouble understanding?
Apr 1st, 2017, 08:01 AM
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What's Britrail?
More importantly, is this pseudo-legalistic gibberish typical of how daily life is lived in your country?
It certainly isn't here.
Or is this a mad troll?
Book the ticket.
If you're getting it from a machine, ensure you've got a valid railcard before you get on the train. If you're collecting it from a manned ticket office, ensure you buy the discount card as, or before, you collect the ticket.
Something ALL of us (at least all of over 60) are constantly doing
And at all costs, NEVER ask this barrack-room lawyer for advice on anything. Even on what time of day it is.
More importantly, is this pseudo-legalistic gibberish typical of how daily life is lived in your country?
It certainly isn't here.
Or is this a mad troll?
Book the ticket.
If you're getting it from a machine, ensure you've got a valid railcard before you get on the train. If you're collecting it from a manned ticket office, ensure you buy the discount card as, or before, you collect the ticket.
Something ALL of us (at least all of over 60) are constantly doing
And at all costs, NEVER ask this barrack-room lawyer for advice on anything. Even on what time of day it is.
Apr 1st, 2017, 08:23 AM
#12
>>I would very much like to believe that this is accepted by the members of Britrail, but I'm wary as a non-UK resident of running afoul of British contract law, at least as interpreted by most rail officials. <<
<B>Sue_xx_yy:</B> You are so completely wrong there is no need to respond. (You were wrong from 'Britrail' onwards)
<B>nutsbolts:</B> It will help speed up things if you download the form and fill it out ahead of time. Then at the station it will only take a couple of minutes to buy the rail card.
<B>Sue_xx_yy:</B> You are so completely wrong there is no need to respond. (You were wrong from 'Britrail' onwards)
<B>nutsbolts:</B> It will help speed up things if you download the form and fill it out ahead of time. Then at the station it will only take a couple of minutes to buy the rail card.
Apr 1st, 2017, 11:43 AM
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Janisj, the fact is that official sources are contradictory and ambiguous. What is wrong or right, let alone completely wrong or completely right, is about as easy to determine as the proverbial number of angels on the end of a pin.
The FAQ for 'if your railcard is lost' indicates that "You buy a new railcard to take advantage of the discounted tickets you have already purchased."
(source: network-railcard.co.uk)
Well, the implication of that is that one can buy a railcard after the fact of buying tickets. So I went and looked up
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/Condit...vel%202016.pdf
8. Railcards
8.1
"If you use a railcard to purchase a discounted ticket..."
Since one can hardly use a railcard one doesn't have yet, does this mean one can purchase said ticket or not? At this point, it's ambiguous. But, it continues:
"...you must carry the Railcard and have it with you when you travel. "
Then come the words that one can at least proffer in the event of any dispute:
"The railcard must be within its period of validity <i> when you travel </i> [italics mine] in other words it should not have expired."
Although that contradicts the information given on the railcard site about renewals, one has at least a hope of arguing to the effect that any ambiguity, should be resolved in favour of the consumer.
The idea that there is 'no need to respond' is your opinion, janisj, and you have a right to same, but the press is full of reports of people who find that the rail companies don't always interpret the rules in the way one might expect is reasonable. Two examples:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...pany-1500.html
https://www.theguardian.com/money/bl...rain-companies
I take that to mean, that one had better be able to respond, on the spot, to a challenge, because the rail company will win if only in the short term, even if they are 'wrong' or 'completely wrong.'
The FAQ for 'if your railcard is lost' indicates that "You buy a new railcard to take advantage of the discounted tickets you have already purchased."
(source: network-railcard.co.uk)
Well, the implication of that is that one can buy a railcard after the fact of buying tickets. So I went and looked up
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/Condit...vel%202016.pdf
8. Railcards
8.1
"If you use a railcard to purchase a discounted ticket..."
Since one can hardly use a railcard one doesn't have yet, does this mean one can purchase said ticket or not? At this point, it's ambiguous. But, it continues:
"...you must carry the Railcard and have it with you when you travel. "
Then come the words that one can at least proffer in the event of any dispute:
"The railcard must be within its period of validity <i> when you travel </i> [italics mine] in other words it should not have expired."
Although that contradicts the information given on the railcard site about renewals, one has at least a hope of arguing to the effect that any ambiguity, should be resolved in favour of the consumer.
The idea that there is 'no need to respond' is your opinion, janisj, and you have a right to same, but the press is full of reports of people who find that the rail companies don't always interpret the rules in the way one might expect is reasonable. Two examples:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...pany-1500.html
https://www.theguardian.com/money/bl...rain-companies
I take that to mean, that one had better be able to respond, on the spot, to a challenge, because the rail company will win if only in the short term, even if they are 'wrong' or 'completely wrong.'
Apr 1st, 2017, 11:51 AM
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Account given by consumer:
<i> We discovered the train company website selling a ticket that broke its own rules (it listed an off-peak ticket available for a peak-time train). When we pointed this out, we were told that this wasn't their problem, and <b> it was up to the passenger to make themselves aware of the conditions of travel. </b> </i>
https://www.theguardian.com/money/bl...rain-companies
This is what I've been trying to do 'make myself aware of the conditions of travel.' Exceept that when even official sources, let alone anonymous contributors to a travel board, are so confusing, fulfilling that mandate is a bit of a challenge.
<i> We discovered the train company website selling a ticket that broke its own rules (it listed an off-peak ticket available for a peak-time train). When we pointed this out, we were told that this wasn't their problem, and <b> it was up to the passenger to make themselves aware of the conditions of travel. </b> </i>
https://www.theguardian.com/money/bl...rain-companies
This is what I've been trying to do 'make myself aware of the conditions of travel.' Exceept that when even official sources, let alone anonymous contributors to a travel board, are so confusing, fulfilling that mandate is a bit of a challenge.
Apr 2nd, 2017, 06:40 AM
#16
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Whew! I guess it went from simple to complicated. 
No seriously, I think at the end of the day, we are all saying the same thing.
I will look to print out and fill it out ahead of time and then go at a station earlier at some day/point and take care of it.
No seriously, I think at the end of the day, we are all saying the same thing.I will look to print out and fill it out ahead of time and then go at a station earlier at some day/point and take care of it.
