UNITED AIRLINES BANKRUPTCY

Old Nov 29th, 2002, 06:48 AM
  #1  
Frank
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UNITED AIRLINES BANKRUPTCY

I have a trip planned to paris in January with United Airlines....how would a bankruptcy by the airline affect my plans??
has any had any past experiences with this??
Thanks
 
Old Nov 29th, 2002, 07:57 AM
  #2  
xxx
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They're supposed to file for Chapter 11 which hopefully won't occur by January. But even so the airline should still be operating, it's just a filing to protect the business from creditors I believe.
 
Old Nov 29th, 2002, 08:18 AM
  #3  
Trvlr
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Frank
Read the papers early next week, or tune in to CNN, etc.Monday is the day UA has a $375million debt payment due.As of Wednesday at 6pm, according to CNN,UA did not have the payment "ready",whatvere that means.Speculation is that the government will NOT give them the loan guarantee that they are now seeking for a $1.8billion loan.Again,according to CNN,the govt committee holds that UA does not meet the requirements for the loan guarantee.Because they in fact DO have assets themselves to put up as collateral for the loan.If they file bankruptcy, it is merely a move to keep the creditors from breaking down the doors.Bankruptcy is a reorganization tool/outlet and there are many many ramifications within the UA organization.Your trip should not be affected in any way.I am only telling you what I have read.I am not an expert or an authority on anything in the world.
 
Old Nov 29th, 2002, 03:57 PM
  #4  
Dwight
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United Airlines will likely declare bankruptcy in January, though they will continue to fly. A few cities will probably be cut by spring, but they will probably rebook you.

United is in sorry shape and may not be around in 5-10 years.

As far as your trip to Paris, you are safe. They won't drop Paris and they will be around. I'd be more worried about bin Ladin shooting down a plane with a missile like he tried yesterday in Kenya. He missed the Israeli 757. He learns well so look for a plane to be shot down in 2003.

He tried to sink the USS Cole in 1999, but his raft sank. The next year he tried again and was successful in blowing a huge hole in it.
 
Old Nov 29th, 2002, 04:12 PM
  #5  
xxx
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Very interesting question and answers - thanks.

Anyone willing to speculate as to which of the airlines will survive or thrive in 2003?
 
Old Nov 29th, 2002, 04:16 PM
  #6  
xxx
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None are doing well so I don't think they'll be thriving, domestic and international airlines. However, I doubt any will go out of business completely in 2003.
 
Old Nov 29th, 2002, 08:24 PM
  #7  
mad
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All the major airlines are in bad shape. The fact that the government does nothing just watches them being assaulted by terrorists then slaps even more stringent security on them and makes them pay for it may cause chaos soon. I'm not saying that there should not be tighter security but that help paying for it might keep some companies solvent. The US government said they would help the airlines after 9-11 but have failed to do so. Terrorists used the airlines as weapons to destroy lives and property. Now the terrorists are sitting back laughing as more lives and livelihoods are ruined and the economy goes to you know where in a handbasket.

USAirways is not going to make it. United may be next. What will happen then? The prices for airfares that are less now than before de-regualtion will go up, up, up. Get ready for it. Less airlines mean higher airfares. And get ready to kiss your FF miles goodbye.

Maybe the government will just sit back and watch all the majors go out of business. Get ready to fly Air Tran and RyanAir everywhere. You think flying is bad now? Enjoy!!!
 
Old Nov 30th, 2002, 02:33 PM
  #8  
Robyn France
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We're booked into Nice and out of Paris in May on United--we are on Frequent Flier tix--any threat in that regard? Hope not--we have paid several deposits based on our planned schedule.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Take care,
Robyn Mixon
 
Old Nov 30th, 2002, 03:08 PM
  #9  
mad
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Robyn,

United will still be around in May but may well be bankrupt. Since you have already booked you are probably okay with your FF miles. However they will shrink and cut back on routes. Whether it will be one of the routes you mentioned is anyone's guess. What happens with FF miles after bankruptcy will be up to the bankruptcy court.

7,000 mechanics (approx) voted no to a 6% pay cut. By doing so they are holding 100,000 other United employees hostage to their mean-spirited, stupidness. Let's see how they like having their pay cut 40% AFTER bankruptcy. They are a bunch of greedy SOBs!! They should learn a lesson from Eastern.
 
Old Nov 30th, 2002, 03:39 PM
  #10  
Tim
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The mechanics may be greedy but they got a pay cut before and did not get a raise until very recently. Others got pay raises much earlier so they should bear more of the cuts.

If you call the mechanics greedy, look at the federal employees. Congress granted them a 4+% pay raise but the Prez wants to trim the raise. The federal employees are very mad! They haven't worked for United.

Medicare has been cutting doctors fees every year for several years. This is despite increases in the cost of medical equipment and medical technology.

As for the United mechanics, it's all a game of chicken. If United gets the government loan guarantees, the mechanics are lucky to have played hardball. If United doesn't and sinks further into the hole, the mechanics would have been part of the cause.

If you feel very sorry for United, book a ticket on them now. Pay full fare, not a discounted ticket. In return, you do get frequent flyer miles.
 
Old Nov 30th, 2002, 03:56 PM
  #11  
xxx
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Why don't the top execs. trim their salaries and give back to UAL instead of asking the workers to do it? The flight attendants agreed to take a pay cut. My firm has had a salary freeze for over a year now. It began just in time for my 1 yr. anniversary review. It'll be 2 years soon that I'll be working without a salary increase. However, from top to bottom we are all affected in our firm unlike UAL where the workers alone are being hit.
 
Old Nov 30th, 2002, 05:18 PM
  #12  
s.man
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Why doesn't Southwest have $$$ problems?
 
Old Nov 30th, 2002, 07:58 PM
  #13  
mad
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I don't feel sorry for United but for the people that work there. The poor suckers who haven't had pay raises in decades till recently and now won't have them because of pay cuts. Instead they have useless stock that is worth zilch. They are not allowed to sell the stock till they retire (sound like Enron?).

Goodwin badly mis-managed the company for several years. He literally stacked up the money and lit it up like a bonfire. Failed USAir deal, failed corporate jet company, failed internet company, and I could go on and on. Now the little people are asked to give to compensate for the fat cats. It is the same all over. Goodwin is laughing and counting his money since he bailed out with his golden parachute. The US government will not give United one red cent. Watch and see.

The mechanics are cutting off their noses to spite their face. If United goes bankrupt the mechanics will loose big time. United will outsource their jobs to a big maintence facility outside the US. It is a game of bluff but the big guys usually win. They have more money and better lawyers. So when the mechanics have the option of moving to Singapore or collecting unemployment let's see how happy they are with their stupidity.

Southwest is a better managed company, their employees make less and they do not fly the route structure of the big three. I cannot take a flight on southwest from NY to London. Neither can you.
 
Old Nov 30th, 2002, 08:33 PM
  #14  
md
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I don't know the details of United's problem. Canada went through these spasms in the airline industry just after 9/11, and for the same reason.
The "old school" airlines rely on the business travellers - now gone - to pay $1000 for a trip you and I will pay $300 for. They did not keep costs down, racked up the debt, and didn't pay too much attention to the bottom line. It's now come home to roost for them.
(This is not meant to be cras, but...) It says something about the state of the airline industry that the 4 airliners hijacked on Sept. 11th were each capable of holding about 250 passengers, but had only 50-70 people on each. How cost-effective is that? That was before people were concerned about flying, before annoying lineups at security. Why is it that only airlines claim to need outside help to keep themselves from going bust?
 
Old Nov 30th, 2002, 10:36 PM
  #15  
beth
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Not all airlines are in trouble, Southwest and Jet Blue both turned a profit. They are better managed, but the bigger issue is they fly direct city to city instread of this hub system.

As for United, everyone might remember Continentail and some other airline filed Chapter 11 in the early 1990. United is gonna be fine, I would not worry about your trip.

 
Old Dec 1st, 2002, 12:02 PM
  #16  
hal
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Beth is correct and also misinformed. Smaller cities depend on the hub system. Jet Blue can fly between NY and Oakland/San Francisco. However, what's the person from Wichita supposed to do? Only a few people in Wichita need to go to Toledo, not enough to support even 1 flight a day. The trick is to send them to a hub in St. Louis or Chicago where they can get a flight to Toledo or Allentown, PA.

Airlines like Jet Blue are just skimming the cream off the top. Of course, why not instead of beating their head against the wall by flying from Wichita to Toledo and carrying 3 passengers.
 
Old Dec 2nd, 2002, 03:03 PM
  #17  
mad
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Update on the United situation. The mechanics who are hard-nosed, stupid, morons will vote again on Thursday as to whether to accept pay cuts. New head of the airline Tilton laid it on the line with them. Take the cuts or United will go bankrupt and all mechanics jobs will be outsourced. If the mechanics vote "No" they will vote themselves out of their jobs. Goodbye paycheck, insurance, pensions (unless already vested), etc. General atmosphere floating around United is they will vote "No". How smart is that? Do they actually have brains in those empty heads?
 
Old Dec 2nd, 2002, 03:14 PM
  #18  
insider
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Monday December 2, 7:01 pm ET
By Dave Carpenter, AP Business Writer

<<The Machinists' union, which represents the 13,000 mechanics and related employees, said the changes from the previous tentative agreement are a pledge from United CEO Glenn Tilton to resolve "quality of work-life issues" and a clarification that employees would be able to select which four vacation days would be unpaid under the proposed deal.

Union president Scotty Ford said those two matters were cited as sticking points by an overwhelming majority of mechanics who rejected ratification last Wednesday.

Asked to specify quality of work-life issues, union spokesman Joseph Tiberi said they include various items for different working locations, including scheduling of shifts, employee input and other matters intended to result in "a better work environment for everybody.">> End quote.

So what it boils down to is the mechanics want nit-picking consessions. If they don't get them they want to take United down with them. That's a direct quote from several mechanics. They "want to take United down". They sound just like the terrorsits who took down the towers.





 
Old Dec 2nd, 2002, 03:14 PM
  #19  
Linda
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The big lesson learned from all this: When you book flights for an important (i.e., expensive) trip, in addition to checking prices, schedules, etc., check the market analysts' appraisals of the solidity of the company. (I use CBS Marketwatch.) Southwest, Jet Blue, AirTran, indeed all the upstart discount airlines, including the ones in Europe like RyanAir, are solid as a rock. The big airlines like United and USAir are the ones in trouble. I just cashed in all my United frequent flyer miles on a Christmas trip, since their future is so dubious.
 
Old Dec 3rd, 2002, 10:39 AM
  #20  
James
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Why bother checking the supposed "solidity" of an airline? If an airline ceases flying, other airlines honor their tickets. Besides, airlines don't go bankrupt overnight. And unless you're an accountant and understand what the numbers actually mean (relying on any market analyst is a huge mistake), you won't know if an airline is in good shape or not. For example, an airline's cash flow statement may look great. But ask yourself--where is that cash coming from? Is it coming from revenues, or is it from loans? If an airline has a big A/R balance on the balance sheet, how do you know if those balances are collectible? Are you confident the auditors confirmed this balance?
 
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