tfarnique

Hi!

I (23) am taking my brother (13) and sister (18) to the UK from 25 April to 14 May. I was wondering whether you could critique the itinerary I've made. I have been to the UK twice already so I wanted my siblings to see the basics (Bath, Oxford or Cambridge, London) while getting to visit new places for me as well. Limitations: sister has to fly home on 07 May, we're on a student budget, and I'm a little wary of learning how to drive on the left hand side of the road on the spot.

My brother and I like football (unfortunately, no Arsenal v Norwich tickets to be had for love or money), Romans, ruins, and nature but are afraid of heights (so no mountain climbing!) and my sister likes country walks and vintage shopping. We're all rather into history though in different areas.

Here's my current itinerary:

APRIL
25-28— Edinburgh: Palace of the Holyrood, Edinburgh Castle, the Royal Mile, the National Gallery (really looking forward to this), and Linlithgow Palace (accessible by a 30-minute train right?)
28-29— Glasgow, Stirling, and the Isle of Skye
29— Sleeper train to London (takes 1 day on rail pass)
30— Drop bags off at apartment then take the next train to Winchester (back on the last train)

ISSUE #1
I bought a 4-day Britrail Party Flexipass for days we wanted to do whirlwind regional tours but I stupidly put April 29 as the first day of validity so we won't be able to use it as much as we'd like around Scotland. What do you think, should I extend the Scotland leg of the trip to the 30th or just take a coach day tour to the Isle of Skye on the 29th? I've been reading about the train journey from Fort William to Mallaig (and vice versa) and I sort of want to rearrange all my bookings to fit it in but not sure if Skye is worth if we've only got a night or two.

MAY
01— London: National Gallery, Churchill's War Rooms, Trafalgar Square, etc.
02— Liverpool & Chester: Speke Hall and sightseeing (day 2/4 on rail pass)
03— London: Sir John Soane's Museum and Tate Britain
04— Brighton/Lewes, Hastings, and Rye (day 3/4 on rail pass)
05— London: Natural History Museum and the V&A
06— The Cotswolds: train to Moreton-in-Marsh then bus to Stow-in-the-Wold and the Slaughters, Chipping Camden, Kiftsgate Gardens (BLUEBELLS) then nearest train back to London (day 4/4 on rail pass)
07— London

ISSUE #2:
Day trips: is it feasible for the day trips planned? I wanted to make the most of the pass without getting too exhausted. Any tips on a better configuration, especially for the Cotswolds. I know it's difficult to get to villages using public transportation but my sister really wanted to see it before she left. Should we just get a coach tour?

MAY
08—14 London with trips to (1) Cambridge & Ely, (2) Arundel, (3) Bath & Wells, (4) Greenwich

ISSUE #3:
Any better ideas for day trips? We wanted to do Hadrian's Wall but it might be too difficult to do in a day (Fountain Abbey ditto) but if you think it's manageable, please let me know! Also, is it possible to do Chester-Conwy-Betws-y-Coed in a day or do I need a TARDIS? Or, if all I really need is a car, where is the best place to get one then practise for a bit?

We are pretty flexible. Thank you!

texasbookworm

I hope others add more specifics, but I'd say you've bitten off way more than possible. You need to look at the actual times for travel on the train routes you picked, then remember that once in a place, there is some varying amount of time to get from station to wherever--without doing that work for you, I'd say you haven't left much time to see sites. Going to multiple towns/cities via rail in a day is time consuming. I realize your youthful energy is a great plus, but there are lengths and times to consider.

No I don't think you can fit in Hadrian's Wall.

You may be wanting to go to BATTLE, the site of the Battle of Hastings, and not actually Hastings. And trying to do all 3 of those in one day?

AND have you actually found car companies who will rent to a 23-year-old? I think that might be a factor in your planning.

We had the 4 day flex pass like you and loved it for our purposes (We used it for 4 day trips from London--to Dover, Chatsworth--but that took some coaches too--Silverstone Race track, and Salisbury--from which we took a bus to Stonehenge.) Did you know you have to get the passes validated at a ticket office on your first use, so be sure to allow time for that.

You will have fun whatever you fit in--but I'd say you are trying to fit in too much on those day trips.

And why no Oxford? It's the best day trip from London in my opinion--and it can be done by coach (bus) and not rail if you want. Anybody with any affection for Tolkien/C.S.Lewis/Alice in Wonderland/HPotter/several poets will love it.

hetismij2

A day trip to Liverpool from London is not really on. Conwy etc in a day? From where? London? Now way.

I think you need to look at a map of the UK, look at train timetables and distance tables. Realise how long it takes to get to these places, and realise you want to do more than just go somewhere have half an hour and need to turn around and head back again or onto the next point of call. Cut down on what you want to see. You are all young and will all get the chance to go again.

A couple of practical points:
You may struggle to rent a car at your age. If you do find someone prepared to rent you one you will pay a premium for it.

You brother and sister are under age. You will need written permission from both parents to take them abroad and need to have the power of consent should they need any medical treatment.
Don't forget health insurance if your current insurance doesn't cover you, and travel insurance in general.

alanRow

Glasgow is an hour from Edinburgh, Stirling under an hour from Edinburgh. You could knock both off in a day and still be able to catch the sleeper (from Glasgow) to London. Can't see the point of going to Skye for a whistlestop tour, you need to allow more time than that. Also the pass only gets you a seat on the sleeper, you'd have to pay more for an actual berth - and given the Bargain Berths you might find it's cheaper to buy one of them than use your pass.

You also propose travelling to London then the next day spendn several hours travelling back along the way you came and visit Liverpool/Chester before returning to London. Even the Man in Seat61 isn't that much of a train nut.

This may be a stupid question but have you actually looked at a map of the UK or timetables to see travel times. For example Edinburgh to Mallaig (for the ferry to Skye) is over 6 hours travel time without taking a diversion to Stirling or spending any time visiting Glasgow or Stirling. And before you ask - Glasgow to Mallaig is around 5 hours. Stirling isn't much better

The sensible thing to do would be to visit Stirling & Glasgow before travelling to Liverpool where you stay the night, then travel to London via Chester the next day. This would cost you two days of your pass as before but you may find it cheaper to buy point to point tickets and use the pass for other days.

I leave others to comment on the rest of your itinerary

jamikins

Agree with others - you have way too much packed in and alot is not feasible.

Liverpool is not a day trip from London. Not sure I would want to take a day from London to visit Liverpool or Chester - is there a specific reason? If its the Beatles check out www.walks.com for Beatles walks in London (not Liverpool I know, but will give you some Beatles stuff without spending time traveling so much). Why Chester?

Also this: Brighton/Lewes, Hastings, and Rye is not a day trip - you could spend the whole day in any of these places. Trying to do all in a day will have you spend most of your time in transit and not much time actually seeing anything.

You seem to want to spend more time out of London than in...I would cut your daytrips in half - Greenwich is part of London so you can easily do that. But why Arundel?

There are so many interesting things in London that I think you would get more bang for your buck staying in London. Take a look at www.nationalrail.co.uk for timing and prices - these day trips may be way more than you expected to pay. Especially if you are on a student budget. What about a 1/2 at the Tower of London?

I'd go back to the drawing board with a map of the UK, and the above website and map out what is actually possible and see how much time and money you are going to spend sitting on trains and getting to and from train stations and see if this is how you want to spend your vacation time and money.

I believe in the UK you need to be 25 to rent a car without paying a hefty young drivers premium.

Good luck with your planning, I am sure you will have a great time, but I really urge you to do some homework about what is possible using the trains. Dont underestimate how long or expensive they can be!

SkyeHigh

For the Scottish leg you need more time, otherwise abort.
If you do here is a timescale leave in the morning (1035)
Edinburgh-Inverness-Kyle of Lochalsh arr 2059 stay overnight.Or in one of the hostels at Kyleakin, just over the bridge on the Isle of Skye.
Next day
downto Armadale (you'll probably a lift from a fellow traveller or taxi or bus) for the short ferry to Mallaig
train to Glasgow departs at 1010'ish or 1605 arriving back in Edinburgh 7 hours later.
You'll have done two of the WORLD's greatest train journeys!

BigRuss

Thinking the baby brother would be all over Dover Castle (only 85 minute-long train ride on the fast train from St. Pancras to Dover) and the Imperial War Museum in London and potentially the British Museum but you're really heavy on the art museums which could bore a 13 yo boy to tears. And for G-d's sake, take the sibs to the Tower and Westminster Abbey. To them, John Soame's and the Natural History Museum are wastes of time. It's not YOUR trip to see all the art museums you haven't in your previous trips.

Oxford, Cambridge, Windsor, Hampton Court are all closer than Liverpool (about 3.5+ hours each way from London) and make for good day trips.

You can't do Skye any kind of justice. Edinburgh, Glasgow, Stirling, maybe Perth (don't know how close Scone Palace is to the train station) are fine.

You can eat relatively inexpensively in London thanks to EAT, Pret-a-Manger and M&S Simply Food stores.

janisj

I took it to mean you aren't planning to rent a car and that's why you got the rail passes-right?

In any case -- you have put a lot of thought into things, but I'm afraid its back to the drawing board.

You are leaving so soon, I assume you've already booked some/most of the accommodations. If they can be changed/canceled you can rearrange things a bit.

• Edinburgh as a base for everything in Scotland (day trips to Stiring, Glasgow, Linlithgow, etc). Bag Skye - just not feasible unless you take 3 days (one day to get there, 2nights on the Island and most of a day to get back).

• Train to Liverpool- one night parts of 2 days

• Train to Chester - most of 1 day.

• Train to London and base there w/ a few day trips.

OR:

Instead of train to Liverpool:

• Train to Newcastle - one night parts of 2 days, Bus along Hadrian's Wall and back.

• Train to York - 1 night/1+ day.

• Train to London and base there w/ a few day trips.

janisj

oops-didn't mean to click Submit and couldn't bring it back . . .

Those are just a couple of options - there are many other possible variations. Just not your original plan.

tfarnique

Hi everyone! Thank you for your replies. I suppose our hectic schedule can be explained by giving a guidebook to the siblings and asking them to pick 3 places each.

I didn't think the train to Liverpool was too long. On rail websites it's listed as taking 2 hours 10 minutes, and I thought we'd take the first train out and get to Liverpool before 10 when all the attractions open. I was planning to see a friend there. Though in retrospect combining it with Chester was pushing it. However, I read on this forum that someone did Chester-Conwys-Bath in one day from London!

Thank your for your concerns re: car and insurance. I have all documents signed by my parent and I had looked at car rentals already with Young Person Supplement (min 21 or 23 with 2 years license but under 25) per day ranging from 12.50 to 25 pounds. I didn't think it was too bad compared to how much we'd have to pay booking a tour for three people. Though I have to admit, I've never driven on the left hand side so I'm probably going to pass on the driving to be safe.

I like your suggestions for Scotland. I will extend a two days to take the world's greatest train journey ;P then go down via Stirling, Glasgow, and Liverpool. We don't really need to take the sleeper (good thing I hadn't made reservations yet as I planned).

I'll take Battle via Hastings and Rye in one day then. I believe most walks around Rye lasts 3-4 hours. I am curious though, Jamikins, why not Arundel? I heard the castle is very pretty as well as the small town which has a lot of vintage stores. Let me know! I wouldn't like to walk into a tourist trap. Ditto Chester which I understand has the most intact medaeval wall and a Roman amphitheater. So not worth seeing either Chester or Conwys on a first time trip to the UK? For future reference though, which would be the best place to see in Wales that's accessible by rail?

Texasbookworm, I've been to Oxford for a two day trip. I didn't half like it as much as Cambridge, which seemed a lot cheerier when I was there. Also punting from beneath Magdalen bridge didn't look as fun as on the Cam. Of course, that could be explained by the fact that it was finals month.

I think we'll also take an overnight trip to the Cotswolds instead then just get around by walking, bus, and taxis. Any further suggestions on the 'best' villages to see, or have I got them right?

Thanks for the comments!

tfarnique

Oops. Took too long to write my post I missed some comments.

@BigRuss: art museums for my sister. Though I was worried about my brother as well so I did some research. I think he'll like the Turners and the Van Goghs (thank you Doctor Who) and that awesome painting The Experiment, and I'm taking him to the National Portrait Gallery then St Martin in Fields while my sister's looking at art. Brother is into the Napoleonic Wars right now so thought he'd like the Regency wing of NPR. Will definitely let him choose where to go after our sister goes home. But I'm taking him to sir John Soane's on Tuesday evening when everything is lit by candlelight. Ought to make the mummy's sarcophagus way scarier. Forgot the dinosaur extended exhibit ended a few months ago at the Natural History Museum. Good point.

Will definitely get 2 for 1 to Tower of London. We also wrote to our embassy to ask if we could watch some parliamentary debates (brother wants to be s-g of the UN hahaha) but know those are hard to come by. Q: Dover preferrable to Arundel? My brother picked Arundel while my sister picked Bodiam. The thing with castles is they ALL look cool from exterior photos. Someone should really rank them all.

@janisj: we're lucky enough to be staying with friends and relatives for the most part. But yes, perhaps we'll pass on Skye until the next holiday when we're with our entire family. But do you have any suggestions for a coach day tour if you think we ought to see something nearish to Edinburgh but inaccessible by rail?

I'll talk Liverpool v. Hadrian's Wall with my siblings!

Thanks again.

alanRow

<i>You'll have done two of the WORLD's greatest train journeys!</i>

And used 2 days of your rail pass without seeing either Stirling or Glasgow.

jamikins

Chester and arundel ate fine but I have never heard of first timers taking the time to see them! I have lived in London for 5 years and never been to either. And never had a friend go either. There are do many sites ti choose from that I wouldn't put those anywhere near the top for a first time visit, especially taking time from London given how many day trips you want to do. I would drop those two and actually take in more in London!

jamikins

The problem with everyone picking so many things is that you will spend more time trying to get all over the uk instead of actually seeing the sites you are running around to. Why don't you all sit down and see where all the places are and then negotiate down to a reasonable schedule. Surely you want to actually see these places not just get off the train and head off to the next??

DickieG

I would really question the logic of a Liverpool day trip unless there are personal reasons for the trip.

I visited Speke Hall 2 weeks ago, it is the least impressive NT trust property I have visited. The gardens are just above those you would see in a public park and it is quiet small but very well preserved. There are good collections at both The Walker gallery and Port Sunlight but neither is worthy of a trip from London.

Greenwich : we were there 6 weeks ago. The National Maritime Museum and naval college are very well presented with a new contemporary visitor centre. the Greenwich observatory Is also well worth a visit.

I would try to rethink the whole plan.

BigRuss

This will get little bro past the Arundel notion:

http://www.dover-kent.co.uk/defence/tunnels.htm

janisj

"<i>However, I read on this forum that someone did Chester-Conwys-Bath in one day from London! </i>"

PLEASE post the link to that trip report. Utterly impossible! Now, one <i>could</i> drive Chester > Conwy > Bath > London in one day. It is just about 400 miles and would take probably close to 9 hours "car time" plus stops. So one COULD drive that but not seeing anything and not getting out of the car except at motorway service areas.