Check www.seat61.com for answers to that question. Basically the pass is a great deal if you just want to hop on any train anytime - then 50 pounds a day would be great - but instead of buying some discount card for a few trips just go to www.nationalrail.co.uk and book some deep discounted tickets which however to get you should book far in advance as they are sold in limited numbers and may sell out weeks in advance.

But that would be the cheapest way perhaps regardless of any discount pass - which does exist but I am not familiar with its price or whether it can be applied to already discounted tickets.

Anyway besides www.seat61.com scour these fine sites for more info on British trains - www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

BTW the discounted tickets may well be train-specific and non-refundable so be sure of your dates and times - again fully flexible fares can cost a ton of money and for that the pass may be a good deal but not nearly the most affordable way - that is the deep discounted train-specific fares - anyway all the fares are at www.nationalrail.co.uk.

And buses are generally much cheaper than trains in Britain IME - there is even a National Express bus pass - buses are slower often than trains but run very frequent services between all your destinations - buses would be the cheapest I believe.

Discount cards typically cost £28 and offer 35% off virtually all discounted fares, though in almost every case only at weekends and on journeys starting after high peak periods on weekdays. They're explained at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/railcards-discounts/railcards_national.html

There are far greater discounts on advance booked fares on most routes (though on very few wholly within 100 miles of London). To repeat, though: the discounts obtainable through Railcard discounts are cumulative: so it's not at all rare for a rack price to be £150, but a few booked ~12 weeks prior on sale at £12.50, then reduced to £8.12 if you've got an appropriate Railcard.

Note too that Senior Railcards allow a 35% reduction on most London Transport fares charged through an Oystercard.

However, a Railcard is unlikely to be useful for someone able-bodied, between university age and 62, travelling alone or with one partner around Britain, but mostly outside SE England. For this group, Advance booking is really the only discount option. Although the best discounts are available ~12 weeks before booking (and are usually quickly snapped up), cheaper fares stay available on most routes (assuming they don't sell out) until ~6-8 pm the night before travel.

Offpeak discounts (definitions vary by operator) are practically always available.

Britrail (generally, but not always truly awful value) is a French-owned American business. It has no more connection with Britain's railway companies than any other ripoff travel agent.

Apart from advance booking, www.nationalrail.co.uk automatically offers Groupsave discounts for parties of over one.

It would also be worthwhile checking www.megabus.co.uk to see if they operate between any of your destinations. They offer rock bottom travel options if you book far enough in advance.

I have used this service for journeys to and from London and it is... OK. You get what you pay for. It takes longer and can be more uncomfortable that the train but I saved nearly £65/$100 for a return journey so I was prepared to suck it up and take the slow bus

Please note that if you search around you can find some megabus fares (i.e between Liverpool and London) that utilise only trains. These are great value and are often much cheaper than booking the same train ticket direct with the train company and are much faster than the bus/train combo tickets.

I too was going to suggest a bus service - as a student when I was travelling for my studies I used to take National Express rather than trains. They bill themselves as travelling to 900 destinations and are way cheaper than the trains.

http://www.nationalexpress.com/

Lavandula

Britrail (generally, but not always truly awful value) is a French-owned American business. It has no more connection with Britain's railway companies than any other ripoff travel agent.>

not true - BritRail is run by the British rail franchises on which it is valid - every franchise to my knowledge and they divvy up the profits - BritRail is marketed in various countries by an agent and it is not RailEurope as flanneruk mistakingly says but rather in North American ACP Rail, a company headquartered in Quebec!

So BritRail is really a product of the various British rail franchises - if there is a rip-off going on it is Britain's rail franchises, acting under the BritRail umbrella, that should be blamed.

And to say rip-off is simply silly because for folks who are traveling on several longish train trips and who demand flexibility to hop any train anytime it is not a rip-off - it could be if folks buy it naively and who are only taking a few trips and who are willing to peg themselves into a certain train on a certain day weeks in advance - and that is fine too.

So when you throw rip-off around it shows the sayer of that phrase is not giving the whole story.

"Note too that Senior Railcards allow a 35% reduction on most London Transport fares charged through an Oystercard." flanneruk

I was denied this particular discount with my Senior Railcard, was told when I was topping up my Oyster Card that it's available only with resident Oyster Cards, not the visitor version. I didn't know there was a difference until then but apparently there is.

I'm delighted to hear that BritRail's profits are going to subsidise my train journey. But that doesn't make its products any better value. "Ripoff" may be an extreme description: but the fact remains that it's almost always possible to get better value on UK train journeys by playing the system than buying a pass.

The case for BritRail passes is a kind of peace of mind (once bought, buying tickets is one job that doesn't need to be done again) and flexibility if a specific pass actually does allow the routing the visitor wants. It's unlikely to represent good value.

Mme Perdu:
There's no such thing as a "resident Oyster Card". There's a plain vanilla card, which anyone can buy, and a Visitor Card, which I believe is a pure (though slight) ripoff. Do you mean you had a Visitor Card, bought before leaving home (a minor error of judgement, IMHO) - or that Senior Railcards only allow Oystercard discounts if you've got a UK address?

If the latter, there's no method of verifying you live at the address you give either when buying a Railcard or when linking it to an Oyster - though the software might reject an invalid postcode or a street address quoting the wrong postcode. I'd just feed the system the hotel address, giving the hotel as the housename.

Hi,

That's plenty of info, thanks. Based on my specific itinerary, what do you specifically recommend? It sounds like taking buses. Right?

Flanneruk, no I didn't buy anything from home. I renew my senior rail card on arrival each year and the oyster was purchased at a desk at Stansted Airport several years ago on arrival so I apparently got the visitor version not vanilla. I'll try to correct that particular mistake when I'm there next time. In any case, as a result I was unable to get the London oyster discount with my senior railcard that you mention above. My point being not every oyster is eligible for the discount as your post seemed to indicate it was. Maybe most but not all.

The case for BritRail passes is a kind of peace of mind (once bought, buying tickets is one job that doesn't need to be done again) and flexibility if a specific pass actually does allow the routing the visitor wants. It's unlikely to represent good value>

Well before a blanket statement you may want to familiarize yourself with some aspects of a pass that may well make them an absolute bargain - such as:

Families - kids under 16 get a free pass to match what the parents get

Party Pass where the 3rd thru 9th person traveling on the same pass pays only 50% of what the first two adults pauy

Eurail Youthpass holders who pay only 50% of the normal BritRail Youthpass price

Off-Peak - Nov thru end of Feb when all prices, including the Family, Party and Eurail Youthpass prices are cut about 20%

And also the option to take a local Brit along on your pass at no extra fee (think that is still valid but not sure).

So there are varieties of BrirRailpasses that may make them for groups, families and young folk with a Eurail Youthpass that can make a BritRail Pass a real bargain - this should be considered before making blanket statements about BritRail Passes usually being a rip-off - and for some or many the passes could be a rip-off if not wishing flexibility - that is key to the whole thing in light of often absurdly high walk up fares IME.

For me specifically, what is the specific recommendation? I would be traveling alone in this order from France to the UK to Sweden:

1. Paris
2. London
3 Canterbury *Make a daytrip to Canterbury from London.
4. Manchester
5. Liverpool *Make daytrips to Liverpool from Manchester.
6. Newcastle upon Tyne
7. Glasgow
8. Malmö