UK or Italy
Aug 9th, 2007, 06:16 PM
#1
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UK or Italy
I am planning a trip to Europe with my 12 year old son for the End of May/Beginning of June 2008. We have been oscillating between going to the UK or Italy. My son is a little nervous that neither of us speaks or understands any Italian, so I guess that is one point for the UK. We are interested in the castles and history associated with the UK, and I guess the beauty and food of Italy.
Suggestions, advice, insights?
I should probably note that cost could be a deciding factor. I do not know how much or if there would be a large difference in the cost between the 2 countries.
Also, would a group tour be the way to go? I prefer having the flexibility of doing it on our own - but I am finding the planning a bit overwhelming - and I am a little afraid I might mess up somehow. If you want to add your must see spots in the country of your choice, that would be helpful as well.
Thanks!
Suggestions, advice, insights?
I should probably note that cost could be a deciding factor. I do not know how much or if there would be a large difference in the cost between the 2 countries.
Also, would a group tour be the way to go? I prefer having the flexibility of doing it on our own - but I am finding the planning a bit overwhelming - and I am a little afraid I might mess up somehow. If you want to add your must see spots in the country of your choice, that would be helpful as well.
Thanks!
Aug 9th, 2007, 06:44 PM
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Hello,
Just back from the UK with 13 and 11 y/o kids. I think I would vote for the the UK due to the concerns you mentioned. My son loved all the Castles and tower of London type things. while my daughter enjoyed them, she also liked the shops of London and afternoon tea. we decide on the UK for our first visit with kids so they wouldn't feel quite so out of touch. Next time we will go to Italy, since my husband in Italian, but first we will all learn a little of the language. Prices in the UK are double the US, is that where you are coming from?Where are you planning to stay in the UK? I have great ideas.
Just back from the UK with 13 and 11 y/o kids. I think I would vote for the the UK due to the concerns you mentioned. My son loved all the Castles and tower of London type things. while my daughter enjoyed them, she also liked the shops of London and afternoon tea. we decide on the UK for our first visit with kids so they wouldn't feel quite so out of touch. Next time we will go to Italy, since my husband in Italian, but first we will all learn a little of the language. Prices in the UK are double the US, is that where you are coming from?Where are you planning to stay in the UK? I have great ideas.
Aug 9th, 2007, 06:47 PM
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Our family just got back from Rome. My son is 13. He loved it. We didn't know a bit of Italian but had a wonderful time in Rome, Cinque Terre and Lake Como. Click on my name for our trip report.
His attitude was "if I mess up, I'll never see them again."
I haven't been to the UK, but I assume it would be wonderful too.
Rome has the Coliseum, The Vatican and so much more. Cinque Terre is fun at the beach where he can swim and burn off some energy.
Lake Como had mini golf and paddle boats.
See alot and save time for him being a teenager.
Include him in the planning.
Enjoy!
Cheryl
His attitude was "if I mess up, I'll never see them again."
I haven't been to the UK, but I assume it would be wonderful too.
Rome has the Coliseum, The Vatican and so much more. Cinque Terre is fun at the beach where he can swim and burn off some energy.
Lake Como had mini golf and paddle boats.
See alot and save time for him being a teenager.
Include him in the planning.
Enjoy!
Cheryl
Aug 9th, 2007, 06:53 PM
#4
Well, if the bottom line is cost, I'd pick Italy. The U.S. dollar is very weak against the British Pound, and I doubt it will improve much (if at all) before June 2008.
Don't be nervous about the language barrier in Italy. English is widely spoken in the major tourist areas. On two occasions during our trip in October 2006 we encountered parents who really pushed their kids (6 and 8 years) to talk to us in English because they were learning it in school. And I'm sure I don't need to point out that this would be a great opportunity for you and your son to learn a little Italian. Just the polite phrases would do, and I think the two of you could make a fun project out of it.
Most people here will discourage the tour idea (or is it encourage the independent travel idea?). Anyway, don't be afraid of messing it up; rather, think of it as seeing/doing something that wasn't part of the plan. Better your son learn that things can go awry, but you can still have fun.
Don't be nervous about the language barrier in Italy. English is widely spoken in the major tourist areas. On two occasions during our trip in October 2006 we encountered parents who really pushed their kids (6 and 8 years) to talk to us in English because they were learning it in school. And I'm sure I don't need to point out that this would be a great opportunity for you and your son to learn a little Italian. Just the polite phrases would do, and I think the two of you could make a fun project out of it.
Most people here will discourage the tour idea (or is it encourage the independent travel idea?). Anyway, don't be afraid of messing it up; rather, think of it as seeing/doing something that wasn't part of the plan. Better your son learn that things can go awry, but you can still have fun.
Aug 9th, 2007, 07:59 PM
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BP,
Here is a brief, very brief idea of our itenerary. We swapped homes so we were in NW England. Flew into Manchester. First day collapsed and had Dominos Pizza first nite, forgive us for that! Went to City of Chester, ancient Roman walled city. Took walking tour with roman soldier in costume, very funny and engaging for everyone. Walked the walled city and ate in pub, met men from Liverpool and had a great chat. Next, River tour of Chester and the River Deee. Next day, Beeston Castle, got lost on the way and saw many great tiny villages including the Shady Oak Pub and canal bridge with many "narrow boats". We also went to London for 4 days/3 nights, through Priceline, and saw many sights. Train into London, kids loved that! Cab to hotel, again very fun. Went to Theatre district saw "Mouse Trap", longest running show in London...and not very expensive. Ate at pre-fix restaurants around the theatre district. Kids loved the play. Swam at the hotel. Tube/underground to St. Paul's Cathedral, took a picture outside and onto Tower of London. I didn't care for exhibits, husband and son loved them, daughter and myself drank tea and enjoyed impromtu plays put on around the grounds. Walked the Tower Bridge and the River Thames boat tour. Swam at the hotel. Next day, Husband and son took walking tour of London, "Harry Potter" and also very touristy London Tower of Terror..yuck. Daughter and I visited Harrods and had afternoon tea at Wolseley's after walking Buckingham Palace and Picadilly Circus. Met together later at the London Eye, very good. Etc.
What are your interests? How many people? Will you have a car? I have other ideas....just depends on flexiblity and expectations...
tina
Here is a brief, very brief idea of our itenerary. We swapped homes so we were in NW England. Flew into Manchester. First day collapsed and had Dominos Pizza first nite, forgive us for that! Went to City of Chester, ancient Roman walled city. Took walking tour with roman soldier in costume, very funny and engaging for everyone. Walked the walled city and ate in pub, met men from Liverpool and had a great chat. Next, River tour of Chester and the River Deee. Next day, Beeston Castle, got lost on the way and saw many great tiny villages including the Shady Oak Pub and canal bridge with many "narrow boats". We also went to London for 4 days/3 nights, through Priceline, and saw many sights. Train into London, kids loved that! Cab to hotel, again very fun. Went to Theatre district saw "Mouse Trap", longest running show in London...and not very expensive. Ate at pre-fix restaurants around the theatre district. Kids loved the play. Swam at the hotel. Tube/underground to St. Paul's Cathedral, took a picture outside and onto Tower of London. I didn't care for exhibits, husband and son loved them, daughter and myself drank tea and enjoyed impromtu plays put on around the grounds. Walked the Tower Bridge and the River Thames boat tour. Swam at the hotel. Next day, Husband and son took walking tour of London, "Harry Potter" and also very touristy London Tower of Terror..yuck. Daughter and I visited Harrods and had afternoon tea at Wolseley's after walking Buckingham Palace and Picadilly Circus. Met together later at the London Eye, very good. Etc.
What are your interests? How many people? Will you have a car? I have other ideas....just depends on flexiblity and expectations...
tina
Aug 9th, 2007, 08:27 PM
#7
Either would be wonderful of course. W/ what your son's concerns and both your interests I'd suggest Scotland. Edinburgh, "Braveheart country", more castles than you can possibly see, and the most amazing scenery - especially on the west coast, Skye and in the Highlands.
As for Jean's comment "<i>The U.S. dollar is very weak against the British Pound</i>" -- Many people don't realize the US$ is at an even worse exchange against the euro. The € has never been higher against the $, whereas the £ exchange has historically beenworse. Some see £1 = $2.03 and €1 = $1.38 and make the leap that the € is a much better buy. Simply not true. Comparing apples and oranges.
and "<i>I doubt it will improve much (if at all) before June 2008.</i>" - simply no way to tell what currency exchange rates will be a year from now.
London IS expensive for sure, but there are ways to economize and every other part of the country is cheaper.
Scotland wouls be terrific - OR - a few days in London and the rest in Scotland.
As for Jean's comment "<i>The U.S. dollar is very weak against the British Pound</i>" -- Many people don't realize the US$ is at an even worse exchange against the euro. The € has never been higher against the $, whereas the £ exchange has historically beenworse. Some see £1 = $2.03 and €1 = $1.38 and make the leap that the € is a much better buy. Simply not true. Comparing apples and oranges.
and "<i>I doubt it will improve much (if at all) before June 2008.</i>" - simply no way to tell what currency exchange rates will be a year from now.
London IS expensive for sure, but there are ways to economize and every other part of the country is cheaper.
Scotland wouls be terrific - OR - a few days in London and the rest in Scotland.
Aug 9th, 2007, 08:52 PM
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It sounds like the UK would be a good trip for you, partly because of your son's nervousness and because it sounds like you are more interested in the castles and history of the UK. Save Italy for next trip!
That being said, we took our 10-year-old (then) son for his first trip to Europe two years ago. We chose a trip that started in London, then moved on to the Loire Valley and Paris. Partly due to his interests (we, his parents, had visited all 3 places before) and partly to make his first overseas destination an English-speaking country. Well, he couldn't have cared in the slightest! Neither on that trip, or on a subsequent trip to Spain and southern France, did our son care that we were in a country where English was not the main language. I speak a little French, and only a tiny bit of Spanish; definitely not enough to get us through all possible problems! But we didn't have any problems or issues with the language of either country, and I was able to persuade him to learn a little and speak it while on vacation. So maybe the language factor won't be the issues that your son is worried about.
That being said, we took our 10-year-old (then) son for his first trip to Europe two years ago. We chose a trip that started in London, then moved on to the Loire Valley and Paris. Partly due to his interests (we, his parents, had visited all 3 places before) and partly to make his first overseas destination an English-speaking country. Well, he couldn't have cared in the slightest! Neither on that trip, or on a subsequent trip to Spain and southern France, did our son care that we were in a country where English was not the main language. I speak a little French, and only a tiny bit of Spanish; definitely not enough to get us through all possible problems! But we didn't have any problems or issues with the language of either country, and I was able to persuade him to learn a little and speak it while on vacation. So maybe the language factor won't be the issues that your son is worried about.
Aug 9th, 2007, 10:04 PM
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Four important points:
- The consensus of non-Europeans on this board seems to be that they find Italy cheaper than Britain - though getting to Britain is generally cheaper.
- The equally strong consensus of millions of European and non-European tourists is that not speaking Italian is no bar whatsoever to enjoying Italy.
- Whatever you do, you can't "mess up". So you organise things in such a way you don't get to see the Leaning Tower? You really won't die wishing you had, you've got decades to see it and it'll be there when your son's thinking about graduation presents for his great-grandchildren
- Whichever one you choose, the other one'll be around for a fair few years too. This decision is not going to change your life.
Which said, for what it's worth:
- If all this is preying on your mind, Britain's a great deal easier to plan. Not just language, but far more information is on the web
- If money matters, preplanning matters more. That doesn't mean minute by minute schedules: it means understanding how to avoid wasting money. This board in particular is awash with suggestions on how to plan travel, accommodation, visits and eating to keep costs down - especially in Britain
- Millions of Britons live (food, rent, tax, travel) for a week on £150.
In your shoes, I'd take janis' advice. Split your time between London and Scotland, possibly taking trips out from London to the historic towns within 100 miles. Spend the next few months working out how to do that for as little as most of us - as opposed to the lunatics who squander a week's wages on a can of junk drink outside some rip off waxworks then spend the rest of their lives whining about how expensive London is - actually spend.
There's no such thing as an expensive country. Just improvident travellers.
- The consensus of non-Europeans on this board seems to be that they find Italy cheaper than Britain - though getting to Britain is generally cheaper.
- The equally strong consensus of millions of European and non-European tourists is that not speaking Italian is no bar whatsoever to enjoying Italy.
- Whatever you do, you can't "mess up". So you organise things in such a way you don't get to see the Leaning Tower? You really won't die wishing you had, you've got decades to see it and it'll be there when your son's thinking about graduation presents for his great-grandchildren
- Whichever one you choose, the other one'll be around for a fair few years too. This decision is not going to change your life.
Which said, for what it's worth:
- If all this is preying on your mind, Britain's a great deal easier to plan. Not just language, but far more information is on the web
- If money matters, preplanning matters more. That doesn't mean minute by minute schedules: it means understanding how to avoid wasting money. This board in particular is awash with suggestions on how to plan travel, accommodation, visits and eating to keep costs down - especially in Britain
- Millions of Britons live (food, rent, tax, travel) for a week on £150.
In your shoes, I'd take janis' advice. Split your time between London and Scotland, possibly taking trips out from London to the historic towns within 100 miles. Spend the next few months working out how to do that for as little as most of us - as opposed to the lunatics who squander a week's wages on a can of junk drink outside some rip off waxworks then spend the rest of their lives whining about how expensive London is - actually spend.
There's no such thing as an expensive country. Just improvident travellers.
Aug 10th, 2007, 03:03 AM
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Have been to both places with kids. Go to the UK with a 12 year old. He will love it. I agree - take time to go to Scotland - Stirling Castle, Wallace Monument, Edinburgh Castle, and of course London. Save Italy for a later time (but do go).
Aug 10th, 2007, 04:14 AM
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England has wonderful sports schools...canoe, kayak, skiing and soccer. Perhaps tennis and golf too. They start on Sunday and end on Saturday. How better to learn a lifetime skill. Italy..try a one-week Italian language school!
Aug 11th, 2007, 05:14 PM
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Thanks everyone so much for your very helpful insights!
To answer a few of your questions:
It will just be me and my son.
I would like to try to not rent a car. I think some of the castles may be a bit off the beaten path though, so we may have to at some point.
I am thinking that we can stay for 9-10 days (+2 days travelling to and from, so a total of 11-12 days).
London, Scotland and surrounding areas seems like a pretty good idea for us. Any suggestions on ways to cut costs would be great! I have heard that some Hostels in the UK are pretty nice - and I would not be opposed to that. We would have to get a private room (he is not old enough to be in a dorm room without a parent, and I cannot stay in the male dorm rooms!), but this is still probably a good deal less expensive than most hotels. And I have heard that some of them are in some pretty cool locations (castles even maybe?). I'm sure we would need to book the private rooms pretty early though.
Thanks again to everyone!
To answer a few of your questions:
It will just be me and my son.
I would like to try to not rent a car. I think some of the castles may be a bit off the beaten path though, so we may have to at some point.
I am thinking that we can stay for 9-10 days (+2 days travelling to and from, so a total of 11-12 days).
London, Scotland and surrounding areas seems like a pretty good idea for us. Any suggestions on ways to cut costs would be great! I have heard that some Hostels in the UK are pretty nice - and I would not be opposed to that. We would have to get a private room (he is not old enough to be in a dorm room without a parent, and I cannot stay in the male dorm rooms!), but this is still probably a good deal less expensive than most hotels. And I have heard that some of them are in some pretty cool locations (castles even maybe?). I'm sure we would need to book the private rooms pretty early though.
Thanks again to everyone!
Aug 11th, 2007, 05:26 PM
#15
B&Bs in Scotland are quite reasonably priced - so I don't think you'd need to stay in hostels. Not that hostels aren't OK, but for very little more you can get a private room w/ bath and huge cooked breakfast.
In London there are a couple of ways to really economise - for just a few day's stay - Priceline is brilliant in London. Really decent 3+ and 4 star hotels for the neighborhood of $100 a night. Most Hostels will cost close to that much.
For a London stay of more than 3 or 4 days, you might consider an aparrtment. A large studio or small 1-bdrm will cost a good deal less than most hotels and you can save a bit by cooking some light meals/breakfasts.
When you start to organize your itinerary we can make more concrete suggestions.
BTW - driving in rural Scotland is not hard at all. You don't need a car in Edinburgh or to visit Stirling Castle. But renting a car just for a few days to tour around might be a good idea.
You can take public transport (combination of trains/buses) to places like St Andrews and Dunnottar for their neat castles. And Dirleton and Tantallon castles and Linlithgow Palace are easy to reach from Edinburgh by train/bus - so if you REALLY don't want to drive we can still help you work out a decent itinerary.
In London there are a couple of ways to really economise - for just a few day's stay - Priceline is brilliant in London. Really decent 3+ and 4 star hotels for the neighborhood of $100 a night. Most Hostels will cost close to that much.
For a London stay of more than 3 or 4 days, you might consider an aparrtment. A large studio or small 1-bdrm will cost a good deal less than most hotels and you can save a bit by cooking some light meals/breakfasts.
When you start to organize your itinerary we can make more concrete suggestions.
BTW - driving in rural Scotland is not hard at all. You don't need a car in Edinburgh or to visit Stirling Castle. But renting a car just for a few days to tour around might be a good idea.
You can take public transport (combination of trains/buses) to places like St Andrews and Dunnottar for their neat castles. And Dirleton and Tantallon castles and Linlithgow Palace are easy to reach from Edinburgh by train/bus - so if you REALLY don't want to drive we can still help you work out a decent itinerary.
Aug 11th, 2007, 05:34 PM
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"Millions of Britons live (food, rent, tax, travel) for a week on £150."
They must not live in London!
A dumpy one bedroom in central London rents for 300-400 hundred pounds per week.
They must not live in London!
A dumpy one bedroom in central London rents for 300-400 hundred pounds per week.
Aug 12th, 2007, 06:17 AM
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You have a great amount of time of time for a good UK trip, BPJones.
A few comments:
Our favorite book for Scotland is Peter Irvine's <i>Scotland the Best</i>. It consists of lists of things in Scotland that are the "best" - it has provided us with our favorite experiences in Scotland. In London I used the <i>Amateur Historian's Guide to Medieval and Tudor London</i> to add some historical sights (and to get lots of information about others, such as the Tower of London).
Stirling, which has a wonderful castle, along with the Wallace Monument, is an easy 1+ hr train ride from Edinburgh.
If you take the train from London to Scotland (4 hours to Edinburgh) you can stop for a day or two in York, which is compact and had Roman as well as medieval sights. You can walk the old walls which still circle most of the old town.
A few comments:
Our favorite book for Scotland is Peter Irvine's <i>Scotland the Best</i>. It consists of lists of things in Scotland that are the "best" - it has provided us with our favorite experiences in Scotland. In London I used the <i>Amateur Historian's Guide to Medieval and Tudor London</i> to add some historical sights (and to get lots of information about others, such as the Tower of London).
Stirling, which has a wonderful castle, along with the Wallace Monument, is an easy 1+ hr train ride from Edinburgh.
If you take the train from London to Scotland (4 hours to Edinburgh) you can stop for a day or two in York, which is compact and had Roman as well as medieval sights. You can walk the old walls which still circle most of the old town.
