U.K. Marks & Spencer - "Most Important Food Store Where Price Does Not Count"
Oct 14th, 2008, 07:14 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
U.K. Marks & Spencer - "Most Important Food Store Where Price Does Not Count"
That's how a Kenyan producer of ready to cook meals described Britain's Marks & Spencer Food Halls.
And then i thought just why i love Marks & Spencers, esp when in London and their fantastic Food Halls and the ample ready to eat fare they have - picnic supplies or food to take back to your room.
The troubles of M&S have been highlighted and it seemed the firm would go out of business not long ago i think. Indeed stores in the rest of Europe i think were mainly closed - a loss to M&S fans traveling on the Continent
Q- do you patronize Marks & Spencers' Food Halls and what brings you in?
And then i thought just why i love Marks & Spencers, esp when in London and their fantastic Food Halls and the ample ready to eat fare they have - picnic supplies or food to take back to your room.
The troubles of M&S have been highlighted and it seemed the firm would go out of business not long ago i think. Indeed stores in the rest of Europe i think were mainly closed - a loss to M&S fans traveling on the Continent
Q- do you patronize Marks & Spencers' Food Halls and what brings you in?
Oct 14th, 2008, 07:26 AM
#2
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Where Price Does Not Count"
...would most certainly be news to M&S suppliers. However much mythology they've created about themselves, M&S leave no-one in any doubt that price is king.
Incidentally, they were never close to going out of business. Their profits got mediocre a few years back, and their management would almost all have been sacked if a takeover bid had succeeded - and that prospect never recedes totally. But the business would still have gone on.
...would most certainly be news to M&S suppliers. However much mythology they've created about themselves, M&S leave no-one in any doubt that price is king.
Incidentally, they were never close to going out of business. Their profits got mediocre a few years back, and their management would almost all have been sacked if a takeover bid had succeeded - and that prospect never recedes totally. But the business would still have gone on.
Oct 14th, 2008, 07:43 AM
#5
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They ran their own operations in France, Belgium and Germany and lost a lot of money that way. Not enough to imperil the company's future, but enough to screw up their dividend.
They decided around 2000 not to run their own stores outside the British Isles: there are lots of tiny franchised M&S's in smaller European countries like Greece, run by local retailers.
Oddly, though, they opened a proper M&S-run, full size, store in Shanghai last week. Current management is on record they want to move back into proper foreign operations. But they're unlikely to include real food, which throws up huge logistical problems. Just a few tins of shortbread and jars of jam.
They decided around 2000 not to run their own stores outside the British Isles: there are lots of tiny franchised M&S's in smaller European countries like Greece, run by local retailers.
Oddly, though, they opened a proper M&S-run, full size, store in Shanghai last week. Current management is on record they want to move back into proper foreign operations. But they're unlikely to include real food, which throws up huge logistical problems. Just a few tins of shortbread and jars of jam.
Oct 14th, 2008, 07:56 AM
#7
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will occasionally buy a sandwich or other snack at M&S, but I certainly never seek it out.
As for the non-food stuffs - I find it a bit dowdy and unfashionable. Sort of like a British JC Penney. Perfectly fine for undergarments and the occassional staple item, but not the sort of place I would really give too much of a look.
As for the non-food stuffs - I find it a bit dowdy and unfashionable. Sort of like a British JC Penney. Perfectly fine for undergarments and the occassional staple item, but not the sort of place I would really give too much of a look.
Oct 14th, 2008, 08:04 AM
#8
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a small M&S "Simply Food" store on my way home from work and we also have a large out of town M&S, reachable in my lunch hour. 
This sells everything from clothes to furniture and has a large food department. My main food shopping is done at Tescos but I do go into M&S for specials when I can't be bothered cooking from scratch. I quite like their "cook" range, fresh food ready to cook with some interesting ideas, e.g. uncooked chicken breasts with interesting fillings and sauces that are ready to put in the oven. I also like their Christmas specials - shortbread, cakes and puddings.
This sells everything from clothes to furniture and has a large food department. My main food shopping is done at Tescos but I do go into M&S for specials when I can't be bothered cooking from scratch. I quite like their "cook" range, fresh food ready to cook with some interesting ideas, e.g. uncooked chicken breasts with interesting fillings and sauces that are ready to put in the oven. I also like their Christmas specials - shortbread, cakes and puddings.
Oct 14th, 2008, 12:28 PM
#12
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't stand the adverts either. And, though I'm probably in a minority, I find their ready meals vastly overrated. Yes, 20 years ago, they were far superior to anything their rivals were selling. But their rivals have caught up and, in many cases, in my opinion, surpassed them. Each time I allow myself to be taken in by all the "oh when we want to treat ourselves we buy an M&S meal" hype, I'm disappointed anew! I much prefer Waitrose ready meals and even many of those from Tesco and Sainsbury's. I do think M&S desserts are still very good but their normal ready meals, not so much. But for shoppers of a certain age and also for those influenced heavily by where their mothers shopped and what their mothers thought, M&S is still it. Resting on past laurels, if you ask me!
Oct 14th, 2008, 01:05 PM
#13
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
m&s is total rubbish.
i agree with travelgourmet. it is outdated and deserves to go out of business. the non-food merchandise is a joke. the clothing is very unfashionable and appeals only to pensioners.
of course they know all of this so they concentrate on the food. but they need to make up their mind what they want to be. they keep selling the clothing for the pensioners yet they want to sell prepared food to busy young fashionable professionals. brand identity problem...absolutely.
their food concept is not appealing to me. when you walk into the store, you are hit with a wall of plastic. why do they need to box and wrap bananas in plastic? why does everything need to come in a plastic box..even vegetables? the prepared food is far overrated. i don't find the quality anything special. most sell the same things that you can get in any tesco or morrisons.
people only go on about it because it's supposed to be some sort of british icon. oh please. it's as outdated as all of our other retailers...argos (catalog stores in 2008?!?!), woolworth's (what the...?), dixons (that's an exciting place), next (move along mate), curry's (what a joke), bhs!, boots (another far overrated one).
we have very few innovative retailers. the major ones who are innovative (probably forgetting a few):
tesco (for price leadership), primark (although nasty, it does serve a need very well), body shop, and the foreign high street stores like h&m, and zara. not a fan of any of these stores but see that they are businesses that work.
i agree with travelgourmet. it is outdated and deserves to go out of business. the non-food merchandise is a joke. the clothing is very unfashionable and appeals only to pensioners.
of course they know all of this so they concentrate on the food. but they need to make up their mind what they want to be. they keep selling the clothing for the pensioners yet they want to sell prepared food to busy young fashionable professionals. brand identity problem...absolutely.
their food concept is not appealing to me. when you walk into the store, you are hit with a wall of plastic. why do they need to box and wrap bananas in plastic? why does everything need to come in a plastic box..even vegetables? the prepared food is far overrated. i don't find the quality anything special. most sell the same things that you can get in any tesco or morrisons.
people only go on about it because it's supposed to be some sort of british icon. oh please. it's as outdated as all of our other retailers...argos (catalog stores in 2008?!?!), woolworth's (what the...?), dixons (that's an exciting place), next (move along mate), curry's (what a joke), bhs!, boots (another far overrated one).
we have very few innovative retailers. the major ones who are innovative (probably forgetting a few):
tesco (for price leadership), primark (although nasty, it does serve a need very well), body shop, and the foreign high street stores like h&m, and zara. not a fan of any of these stores but see that they are businesses that work.
Oct 14th, 2008, 01:14 PM
#14
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<i>boots (another far overrated one).</i>
The wife would disagree on that one.
<i> most sell the same things that you can get in any tesco or morrisons.</i>
But would agree on this one. It isn't so much that M&S is bad, as much as I don't understand why anyone would seek it out. I mean, plastic-wrapped sandwiches and pre-prepped meals? They will do in a pinch, but who would seek that sort of thing out?
The wife would disagree on that one.
<i> most sell the same things that you can get in any tesco or morrisons.</i>
But would agree on this one. It isn't so much that M&S is bad, as much as I don't understand why anyone would seek it out. I mean, plastic-wrapped sandwiches and pre-prepped meals? They will do in a pinch, but who would seek that sort of thing out?
Oct 14th, 2008, 01:24 PM
#15
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly! M&S food is NOT better than that found at Tesco, Sainsbury and probably the other supermarkets too, though I can't comment on those from experience.
I truly believe it's a case of people believing the hype. It's the power of suggestion! People expect it to be better, are convinced it will be better and lo and behold, they find it better. It's all in the mind, I think!
Boots doesn't set itself up as anything special, it's just a drugstore that expanded one heck of a lot. The emphasis is still on toiletries and associated products but obviously it sells a lot more than that now. It can be very useful for certain items and the prices are usually reasonably competitive, though not as cheap as Superdrug or the like. Nothing wrong with it, it matches it's marketing better, I think.
I think when the country finally wakes up to the falsehood of M&S food hype, the company will really be in trouble as what else does it have going for it?
Once upon a time, their clothes stood out not because they were ever the height of fashion but because quality was much better than elsewhere. Some smart alec on the board looked at the profit margins some of the high fashion stores were achieving and decided he wanted some of that and that extra attention to detail and quality disappeared! And so did a huge chunk of their remaining customer base! I remember my mum buying a cardigan that was a kind of ethnic design, outside of main trends, if you like. It lasted so well that, after she'd worn it for several years, I took it away to college and wore it for several years too. I think the sister may have nicked it next! Likewise skirts and trousers were properly lined and lasted. Not any more. I wouldn't buy M&S clothes over Primark, quite frankly. OK, that's not quite true, we recently bought some jeans for the husband for £9 a pop as Primark didn't have long enough leg lengths. It made me wonder what M&S strategy was, are they trying to compete with Primark and Matalan now???
I truly believe it's a case of people believing the hype. It's the power of suggestion! People expect it to be better, are convinced it will be better and lo and behold, they find it better. It's all in the mind, I think!
Boots doesn't set itself up as anything special, it's just a drugstore that expanded one heck of a lot. The emphasis is still on toiletries and associated products but obviously it sells a lot more than that now. It can be very useful for certain items and the prices are usually reasonably competitive, though not as cheap as Superdrug or the like. Nothing wrong with it, it matches it's marketing better, I think.
I think when the country finally wakes up to the falsehood of M&S food hype, the company will really be in trouble as what else does it have going for it?
Once upon a time, their clothes stood out not because they were ever the height of fashion but because quality was much better than elsewhere. Some smart alec on the board looked at the profit margins some of the high fashion stores were achieving and decided he wanted some of that and that extra attention to detail and quality disappeared! And so did a huge chunk of their remaining customer base! I remember my mum buying a cardigan that was a kind of ethnic design, outside of main trends, if you like. It lasted so well that, after she'd worn it for several years, I took it away to college and wore it for several years too. I think the sister may have nicked it next! Likewise skirts and trousers were properly lined and lasted. Not any more. I wouldn't buy M&S clothes over Primark, quite frankly. OK, that's not quite true, we recently bought some jeans for the husband for £9 a pop as Primark didn't have long enough leg lengths. It made me wonder what M&S strategy was, are they trying to compete with Primark and Matalan now???
Oct 14th, 2008, 01:25 PM
#16
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,056
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I might get a sandwich now and then to eat at work, but otherwise I don't buy their food unless it's an emergency. I find it very over-priced for what it is - not really any better than you get elsewhere.
Oct 14th, 2008, 01:27 PM
#17
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm amazed how people loves to put labels on things..."the clothing is very unfashionable and appeals only to pensioners."
Well, I like the clothing many times (call me unfashionable, certainly I'm not interested in fashion) but the last part..that of the pensioners...I'm 40...and I don't like Zara at all.
Well, I like the clothing many times (call me unfashionable, certainly I'm not interested in fashion) but the last part..that of the pensioners...I'm 40...and I don't like Zara at all.
Oct 14th, 2008, 01:58 PM
#18
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the only thing m&s has is its brand. that's fine if they take care of their brand. but they don't. selling 'upscale' food and at best lackluster clothing does not protect the brand...it dilutes it. the business itself no longer supports the non-m&s brand food. this is death. the business is foggy and wayward and all brand clarity will be lost and nobody will know what it stands for.
the experience needs to match the brand and it doesn't. much of the time you go into their stores and many of the shelves are bare and the place is worn. hardly giving you the impression you are in a well run 'upscale' food store.
i'm not so stupid to think that the only way they can succeed is by having better food than everyone else. for me it's about the whole concept. aldi and lidl work not because they have better food but because they have a concept that works.
so why is m&s apparently trying so hard to internationalise? bizarre when the only asset they have is a parochial brand that has little chance of mass appeal outside of brits abroad. on what other basis can m&s compete other than on its brand? i can't see any. sure to fail.
we just don't do brands very well.
the experience needs to match the brand and it doesn't. much of the time you go into their stores and many of the shelves are bare and the place is worn. hardly giving you the impression you are in a well run 'upscale' food store.
i'm not so stupid to think that the only way they can succeed is by having better food than everyone else. for me it's about the whole concept. aldi and lidl work not because they have better food but because they have a concept that works.
so why is m&s apparently trying so hard to internationalise? bizarre when the only asset they have is a parochial brand that has little chance of mass appeal outside of brits abroad. on what other basis can m&s compete other than on its brand? i can't see any. sure to fail.
we just don't do brands very well.
