Two to Three week European trip for a couple
Jan 14th, 2013, 07:20 AM
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Two to Three week European trip for a couple
Hello all,
My girlfriend and I are planning a trip in July to various cities in Europe. No agenda, just travel.
The odds are that our trip will be from July 8-23, 2013
We had planned on getting a Rail Europe pass and flying in to Paris to start our adventure. I later saw that France is no longer part of these pass systems. We then decided to fly into Amsterdam.
After Amsterdam, as I am a "car guy," we planned to take a train and a series of other methods to get to the Nurburgring in Germany and then to Munich perhaps. After that, train to either Budapest or Krakow. She wants to visit Krakow due to her part-Polish ancestry.
After that we would like to visit the Bergen Norway area to visit relatives of mine, with perhaps a day trip to Oslo.
Both of us have been abroad separately. I spent time in Prague and Berlin, while she spent time in Florence, Italy. So, this will be our first time together outside of the country.
I'm looking for all sorts of tips and hints to make this happen smoothly.
My girlfriend and I are planning a trip in July to various cities in Europe. No agenda, just travel.
The odds are that our trip will be from July 8-23, 2013
We had planned on getting a Rail Europe pass and flying in to Paris to start our adventure. I later saw that France is no longer part of these pass systems. We then decided to fly into Amsterdam.
After Amsterdam, as I am a "car guy," we planned to take a train and a series of other methods to get to the Nurburgring in Germany and then to Munich perhaps. After that, train to either Budapest or Krakow. She wants to visit Krakow due to her part-Polish ancestry.
After that we would like to visit the Bergen Norway area to visit relatives of mine, with perhaps a day trip to Oslo.
Both of us have been abroad separately. I spent time in Prague and Berlin, while she spent time in Florence, Italy. So, this will be our first time together outside of the country.
I'm looking for all sorts of tips and hints to make this happen smoothly.
Jan 14th, 2013, 07:31 AM
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Forget the rail pass until you have sketched out a fairly firm itinerary. This idea that European railroad passes automatically save a lot of cash is very outdated. Unless you plan to spend a great deal of your time moving from city to city, point-to-point tickets probably will cost less in the end. Buy those tickets as soon as they go on sale when prices can be much lower. www.seat61.com tells you all about it.
The other essential itinerary advice is to fly into one city and back home from another, known as open-jaws or mutli-city tickets.
The other essential itinerary advice is to fly into one city and back home from another, known as open-jaws or mutli-city tickets.
Jan 14th, 2013, 08:14 AM
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Does "no agenda, just travel" mean that you plan to land in Europe without any sort of hotel reservations? If that's your plan, I would rethink - July will be close to peak travel season.
A pass may or may not benefit you; it totally depends on your itinerary. Even with a railpass, I don't think I'd want to take a train all the way to Norway.
I would figure out your itinerary first, then figure out the transport you need to take to get from place to place. Two weeks sounds like a long time, but if you really want to see the places you visit, I would do three or four cities max.
A pass may or may not benefit you; it totally depends on your itinerary. Even with a railpass, I don't think I'd want to take a train all the way to Norway.
I would figure out your itinerary first, then figure out the transport you need to take to get from place to place. Two weeks sounds like a long time, but if you really want to see the places you visit, I would do three or four cities max.
Jan 14th, 2013, 09:13 AM
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e had planned on getting a Rail Europe pass and flying in to Paris to start our adventure. I later saw that France is no longer part of these pass systems.>
Well yes that is true of the Eurail Select Pass but not of Global Eurailpasses, of which France is still a participant - so yes if thinking of a Select Pass that is true.
Like southam says you have to have a pretty good fix of your anticipated travels to determine the efficacy of a pass - but do not judge a pass simply on price - flexibility is also a key and in most countries you can still hop on and off virtually any train just by showing up (not true in Italy, France and Spain and on Thalys trains Paris to Amsterdam or Cologne via Brussels - otherwise just show up and full fare tickets that allow this can be very very expensive and a few trips may make a pass pay off.
And keep in mind that if over 25 the pass is automatically first class and that at least IME of decades of incessant European rail travel first class has definite advantages - so if on the trip of a lifetime I advise going first class - especially if hauling baggage around as it is IME much easier to stow luggage in first class than in a 2nd class train cars are typically much fuller - in 1st class I often put my bags on an empty seat near me - fewer empty seats in 2nd class - so again when comparing ticket prices keep in mind the pass is first class and that has significant benefits over 2nd class.
You could go the online discounted ticket route as many suggest now in lieu of a pass but those tickets are strictly limited in number and often sell out weeks in advance - they are typically train-specific and cannot be changed - you lock yourself in concrete - which is fine for some but again others like me like to decide which trains to take as we go along.
So there are factors in deciding on a pass besides price itself - and if the cost of 2nd class tickets even remotely approaches the pass price then go for the pass IMO.
Anyway some great sites for planning a European rail trip I always spotlight these IMO fantastic sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com (for any RailEurope product IMO use them - I have bought passes from them for years and they will answer any questions on phone, etc - something hard to get from RailEurope itself - they are a RE agent and have same pricing; and www.seat61.com - great info on online discounted tickets should you want to go that route and also has a commercial link to RailEurope; and www.ricksteves.com. For schedules I always use the Wunderbar German Rail site - www.bahn.de/en.
In addition to Eurailpasses there are solo country passes like the Swiss Pass, which is IMO a great deal for anyone traveling more than a few times on trains there - and two-country passes like Benelux-Germany, covering travel in Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg and Germany; France-Italy Pass, etc that could be used along with individual tickets in other countries.
Well yes that is true of the Eurail Select Pass but not of Global Eurailpasses, of which France is still a participant - so yes if thinking of a Select Pass that is true.
Like southam says you have to have a pretty good fix of your anticipated travels to determine the efficacy of a pass - but do not judge a pass simply on price - flexibility is also a key and in most countries you can still hop on and off virtually any train just by showing up (not true in Italy, France and Spain and on Thalys trains Paris to Amsterdam or Cologne via Brussels - otherwise just show up and full fare tickets that allow this can be very very expensive and a few trips may make a pass pay off.
And keep in mind that if over 25 the pass is automatically first class and that at least IME of decades of incessant European rail travel first class has definite advantages - so if on the trip of a lifetime I advise going first class - especially if hauling baggage around as it is IME much easier to stow luggage in first class than in a 2nd class train cars are typically much fuller - in 1st class I often put my bags on an empty seat near me - fewer empty seats in 2nd class - so again when comparing ticket prices keep in mind the pass is first class and that has significant benefits over 2nd class.
You could go the online discounted ticket route as many suggest now in lieu of a pass but those tickets are strictly limited in number and often sell out weeks in advance - they are typically train-specific and cannot be changed - you lock yourself in concrete - which is fine for some but again others like me like to decide which trains to take as we go along.
So there are factors in deciding on a pass besides price itself - and if the cost of 2nd class tickets even remotely approaches the pass price then go for the pass IMO.
Anyway some great sites for planning a European rail trip I always spotlight these IMO fantastic sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com (for any RailEurope product IMO use them - I have bought passes from them for years and they will answer any questions on phone, etc - something hard to get from RailEurope itself - they are a RE agent and have same pricing; and www.seat61.com - great info on online discounted tickets should you want to go that route and also has a commercial link to RailEurope; and www.ricksteves.com. For schedules I always use the Wunderbar German Rail site - www.bahn.de/en.
In addition to Eurailpasses there are solo country passes like the Swiss Pass, which is IMO a great deal for anyone traveling more than a few times on trains there - and two-country passes like Benelux-Germany, covering travel in Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg and Germany; France-Italy Pass, etc that could be used along with individual tickets in other countries.
Jan 14th, 2013, 10:02 AM
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What I mean by no agenda, is that we aren't going there for business or anything like that.
We were told that the passes essentially allow you to travel on any train.
Any no, we would take a flight from Krakow to Norway.
We were told that the passes essentially allow you to travel on any train.
Any no, we would take a flight from Krakow to Norway.
Jan 14th, 2013, 10:46 AM
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Forget a day trip to Oslo from Bergen, unless you fly. Even the direct train (leaving out the common detour of taking the Flam train to the fjord and then a ferry and then a bus back to the main train line) will take at least 4 hours one way if memory serves me right.
Jan 14th, 2013, 01:08 PM
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by all means if going to Oslo then spend a night in Bergen, an ancient city that was one of the top Hanseatic Ports for ages - now known for its old wooden buildings - very unlike most of boringly modern IMO Scandinavia. And take time to do the Norway in a Nutshell trip - you can do it on your own easily - train from Bergn to Voss (Knute Rockne buried in a graveyard here) then thrilling mountain bus down to Gudvagen to board a ferry that take you to Flam - maybe spotting whales en route but always awesome scenery.
From Flam a mountain railway climbs steeply up to Myrdhal where you can board trains back to Bergen of east to Oslo - the Flam train makes a special stop at a thundcering waterfall for photo opt.
From Flam a mountain railway climbs steeply up to Myrdhal where you can board trains back to Bergen of east to Oslo - the Flam train makes a special stop at a thundcering waterfall for photo opt.
Jan 14th, 2013, 07:06 PM
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re Nurburgring. I visited this legendary venue a few years ago by car. I attended on a weekend during a Recaro (the seat mfr) Days tuner event. They had drifting, drag racing (with American musclecars!), race taxis and other events. It was great fun and I can now say I've actually been on the track in a 911 GT3!
There is also a small castle at Nurburg. It provides a nice spot to over look the track and countryside.
There is also a small castle at Nurburg. It provides a nice spot to over look the track and countryside.
Jan 15th, 2013, 01:26 PM
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http://www.norwaynutshell.com/?gclid...FehDMgodiAMAgQ
Official Norway in a Nutshell site - you can do all the components by yourself just showing up IME.
Official Norway in a Nutshell site - you can do all the components by yourself just showing up IME.
Jan 15th, 2013, 09:56 PM
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You will have a great time in Europe, but just a few thoughts. 3 friends and I did a 3 week trip in Europe this past year. Be sure that you have a firm plan in July, as it is high season! High prices, hotels booked and restaurants will need a reservation in some cities.
As for the Rail Pass? We used a regional Saver Pass, which got us to 5 connected countries and much cheaper than the traditional pass. 2 or more people and qualify for the pass, but the trick is that the countries must be conneced and you will get 5 days of travel if you choose that one. So for example 2 days Berlin, 2 days, Munich and travel day inbetween will just use 1 day on your pass etc. When traveling in Europe it is quality over quanity when planning your visit. Another thing that on most trains and in high season it is mandatory that you have a seat reservation, especially for 1st class. This is in addition to your pass cost. Rail is a great way to travel in Europe and you will not regret it, but you must have a firm plan in July or you may be screwed. European's travel a lot in July and so do the hordes of tourists from other places in the world.
2-3 weeks goes fast, but savor the experience. I have been goinng to Europe for years, and what I have learned is to plan, spend time in cites that you think will be magical, and hang with the locals. You are going to have so much fun, but prepare.
As for the Rail Pass? We used a regional Saver Pass, which got us to 5 connected countries and much cheaper than the traditional pass. 2 or more people and qualify for the pass, but the trick is that the countries must be conneced and you will get 5 days of travel if you choose that one. So for example 2 days Berlin, 2 days, Munich and travel day inbetween will just use 1 day on your pass etc. When traveling in Europe it is quality over quanity when planning your visit. Another thing that on most trains and in high season it is mandatory that you have a seat reservation, especially for 1st class. This is in addition to your pass cost. Rail is a great way to travel in Europe and you will not regret it, but you must have a firm plan in July or you may be screwed. European's travel a lot in July and so do the hordes of tourists from other places in the world.
2-3 weeks goes fast, but savor the experience. I have been goinng to Europe for years, and what I have learned is to plan, spend time in cites that you think will be magical, and hang with the locals. You are going to have so much fun, but prepare.
Jan 16th, 2013, 12:00 AM
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Sorry it's not the regional pass for Rail Europe, but Select Pass up to 5 countries and I think maybe 6 days??? Not sure on the days. I was surprised that France does not participate in the Select Pass any longer.
Jan 16th, 2013, 06:05 AM
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Yes I was shocked when I heard France had dropped out of the Select Pass - the first of all the Eurail countries to do so and to me putting a dagger in the whole Select Pass thing since France is so often in travelers' plans.
Jan 16th, 2013, 11:54 AM
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We had planned on getting a Rail Europe pass and flying in to Paris to start our adventure. I later saw that France is no longer part of these pass systems. We then decided to fly into Amsterdam.>
If only going to Paris and then going to Amsterdam then you may want to reconsider the Select Pass simply because even if France were a participant now the supplement for pass holders on the Thalys train that is the only viable option if going direct from Paris to Amsterdam - it charges passholders a whopping $35-40 or so supplement in 2nd class and much more in first class (which does however include a free meal at your seat) - but the supplement was actually more than some of the discounted fares you could get at www.thalys.com - so you could still buy a Select Pass and instead of using a day on it to go to Amsterdam as you perhaps originally planned score one of the so-called Smart Fare deep discount tickets at www.thalys.com or www.voyages-sncf.com.
Be a shame to miss Paris if you've never been there.
If only going to Paris and then going to Amsterdam then you may want to reconsider the Select Pass simply because even if France were a participant now the supplement for pass holders on the Thalys train that is the only viable option if going direct from Paris to Amsterdam - it charges passholders a whopping $35-40 or so supplement in 2nd class and much more in first class (which does however include a free meal at your seat) - but the supplement was actually more than some of the discounted fares you could get at www.thalys.com - so you could still buy a Select Pass and instead of using a day on it to go to Amsterdam as you perhaps originally planned score one of the so-called Smart Fare deep discount tickets at www.thalys.com or www.voyages-sncf.com.
Be a shame to miss Paris if you've never been there.
