Of course it can be done. People do it all the time. You just need to invest in a load of maps and guidebooks and PLAN it, according to what appeals to you most and your budget. At present, your question is really too broad for anyone to nail down any specifics for you. You've got loads of time to pull it together, so just do it.

Thanks I know I have a lot of time and research to do! I'll be back!

I suspect that to visit rural areas you will need to use a car, at least in France. So you may decide to divide your trip into car travel and other travel. Greece might be by other modes of travel. The rest of continental Europe might be by car travel. You will be there long enough that a lease/buy back plan from Renault or Peugeot might be worthwhile.

http://www.renaultusa.com/SelectRe.asp

http://www.autofrance.net/Rates.aspx

We have done a lot of car travel in the past, wanted to try rail, air, and some car! Have been researching and the train doesn't seem any cheaper then air between countries! What would you suggest? We have a lot of Hilton & Marriott points for big city stays and airmiles on Delta & American! We also have timeshares that if possible would love to be able to fit in (areas outside big cities). Hubby loves to research, so just need some ideas on time frames in different places! Retired and time is on our side!!! hey!

One simple way to begin: you have named 16 locations, some of them entire countries, some of them particular cities.

If you have two months, that means 3.75 days in each location.

If you have three months, that means 5.6 days in each location.

This does not account for the travel time between these locations, at least a half day wasted each time, so perhaps 7 days just connecting the dots. Which means . . .

two months means 3.31 days in each location

three months means 5.18 days in each location

Start adjusting based on your interest in each area.

Great way of doing it, but have to figure which places need more time then others. Your calculations are great! Figured UK will be about 2 wks by itself (between England, Scotland, Wales)! Do you think we would need more then that? Lots of Castles and photo ops!

Do you think we are trying to see too many parts of Europe at the same time?

I think you're trying to do way too much in 2 or 3 months. For traveling that long you'll need some down time. You can't keep up the same pace that you would if you were traveling for 2 or 3 weeks as everything will blur together.

If you're starting in London the Greek islands may not be at their best in October when you get there. Croatia didn't thrill me - there is better scenery elsewhere (Italy, Scotland, etc.) and the cities are very small (more like large towns) and not a lot of sightseeing.

Think about if Budapest, Prague, Barcelona, and Madris are the only places you want to see in the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Spain (for example) or would your focus be better placed if you went to fewer countries and saw something more than one major city. I spent a couple of weeks in the Czech Republic last year and loved the small towns. The driving was easy and everything was quite inexpensive. I was supposed to spend a few days in Prague and then the rest of the time in Poland but I kept reading and reading about the Czech Republic and ended up spending most of the time there and I wished I had 2 more weeks to explore.

I would like to do a 3 month trip in a few years and keep wondering where I would go with that amount of time. It sounds like a huge block of time but I know that I won't be able to do more than 2 or 3 countries and see everything I want to see.

It takes time to focus on hobbies such as photography and you'll want to wander the small streets and won't want to cut short your stay. Allow yourself enough time to soak up the atmosphere of each place and to go at a moderate pace.

A note about castles - choose wisely. I think I've seen enough castles to last a lifetime. Some are much better than others and there are many I wished I hadn't spent the time to see as they were of little interest once I got there. Guide books sometimes make everything sound wonderful when they're simply the best at that location but not the best for that type of sight (hope this makes sense).

I would allocate a minimum of 5 days each in Rome, Paris, and London; 2 to 3 days in Venice; a couple of weeks in Tuscany; months in England; a few weeks in Scotland.

"Figured UK will be about 2 wks by itself (between England, Scotland, Wales)!"

According for my numbers for a three-month trip, you would get 15.5 days there.

Since you asked, if I had the luxury of so much time, I would definitely opt for longer stays in some place to really experience the culture of a place rather than just photograph it and move on. My list of locations would also be shorter since I know after a while all the places would indeed blur together.

I'm unclear -- have you traveled in Europe before? Have you taken a trip of this length before?

thanks! Have travled to Europe before. Have been to Ireland, Austria, Germany, Budapest (loved so much want to go back). Sicily, Spain, Morroco. Usually 2-3 wks at a time. I know we are going to have to narrow down! Hubby wants to see mostly Greece and Islands, England, Wales, Scotland, Rome and northern Italy. Just need to figure how to get from one place to another, and what there might be in between. I agree would rather have more time in each place then go to all! Trying to make the most of the time because of airfare from U.S.

getting back into itinerary mode! hubby has now come up with new plans. fly into London, Paris Or Madrid and depending on which we cac get our airmiles into. If starting in England, will go from England (not stay because of olymics) go to amsterdam, to copenhagen, to stockhom, to st.Petersbury Russia! fly from there to Prague to budapest to Athens (10days) form there to Rome (morthern + naples) (2wks) back to Rome to Madrid to Paris back to London (see scotland + wales) this could all go backwards according to which city has available 1st class miles seat available. I think it can be actually be done in 3 months! Have a question about Stockholm, is it worth it? or is it better to go to Oslo Helsinki? Doing most of traveling by plane until we get to Greece and Italy. Greece will be get a tour of islands made up by travel ajent, Italy we will rent car and go on our own. I hope this makes sense to some on you! would love to hear any comments or suggestions on what to see and how long to stay in different locations. Thanks!

I like your second plan better. Stockholm is a gorgeous city and very worth it. Don´t forget you can do the ferry if you are traveling the Baltic countries. If you hit Northern Italy during October, you will be in time for the truffle festivals which are very worthwhile.

Have trip planed for Europe Aug 25, 2012 until October 29th. Have all reservations made, now just need to find out the best way to get from one place to another. When I first posted this a big part was going to Greece. Now we left Greece out and are saving that for a trip on it's own. This is the itinary. First off I have to say we are not doing open jaw due to the fact we have free first class tickets in and out of London. So here we go:
Aug. 25th depart NYC.
Aug. 26th arrive London (stay one night)using points
Aug. 27 - Aug. 31 Paris (Apartment rental)
Sept.1-3 Zurich (Marriott Hotel)using points
Sept 3-5 Milan (Hilton Hotel)using points
Sept 6-10 Rome (apartment rental)
Spet 11-18 Naples/Capri, Southern Italy (staying in one location doing day trips)(Marriott Hotel)
Sept 19-25 Florence Tuscany area (Marriott Hotel) using points
Sept 26-28 Venice (apartment rental)
Sept 29-Oct 5 Austria (timeshare)
Oct. 6-9 Budapest (Hilton Hotel) using points
Oct 10-12 Prague (Marriott Hotel) using points
Oct 13 Overnight train to Amsterdam (Marriott Hotel) using points
Oct 14-17 Amsterdam (Marriott Hotel) using points
Oct 18-21 Brussels (surrounding area)Marriott Hotel (Paying)
Oct 22-29 London (Marriott Hotel) using points
Oct 29 Depart London back to NYC

As you can see have been saving miles and hotel points a long time for this trip! Now the big question is how do we get from one place to another? We want to use trains and rent cars at times to see countryside from cities. After research it looks like a train pass would be best. When is the earliest we could buy them and which would be best. We are both seniors over 60! Any suggestions for traveling in between would be greatly appreciated. Also, we will be in London for the last week where would you suggest to go while we are there?

You'll see the countryside from the train. I would not bother with car rentals with your itinerary. From the cities, take local trains or buses to places you want to see. For example, an outing from Florence to Siena or Pisa; or an outing from Vienna to the Wachau valley and Melk Abbey. The small towns along the Zuider Zee can easily be reached by train from Amsterdam.

In Naples, I recommend http://www.venere.com/bandb/naples/bandb-medea/#reviews

Thats great to know! I didn't think we could see alot of the countryside going by local trains from the cities. thanks so much! We still have the question of buying a pass or doing single trips? We know we have to reserve the one overnight train. I think the pass would be better. And would you know how far in advance you can purchase the passes? Thanks for your help!

Trains between cities travel through the countryside. I have rarely used passes, but the one time we did it was even valid on the Munich S-Bahn. If you do get passes (you'll have to find out if it is worth it in terms of price and convenience), then car rentals make even less sense since the passes probably would be valid for local train rides--I am assuming that cost is a factor, and the shorter the car rental, the higher the per day cost.

That's what we are trying to calculate. We don't know much about train traveling. We always rented cars in Europe the only train we ever took was from Vienna to Budapest a few years ago. We'll have to keep investigating! Thanks so much for your help! Cost is a factor, but hubby will not travel any where unless it's first class. Something that I really don't mind! lol We have saved so much money already on places we are staying and free airline tickets, the train will be the most money spent except for sightseeing and food!

Some of your Marriott's and Hilton's won't be convenient to sites (at least in Italy). I looked at all of them a couple of years ago when I was using points.

A pass won't cover London/Paris.

From Zurich/Milan you can probably get discount tickets for about 25chf(too far in advance to know yet).

If you aren't familiar with train travel in Europe, spend some time on seat61.com. You should also be aware of bahn.de, which has schedules for all of Europe. And avoid RailEurope.

If you buy a rail pass it will be first class because that's all they sell to people over 25. However, there's really nothing wrong with second class on the fast European trains.

Kybourbon, Thanks for the information on the Marriott's and Hilton's. Unfortionately, all the hotels, and apartments are booked already. (Will just have to make it work). The London/Paris train I know is a different train. Zurich/Milan, where is the best place to buy discount tickets? Would you suggest seat61.com? And would that be included if we bought passes anyway? Which would be cheaper?

thursdaysd, thanks for the info to avoid RailEurope, because I think that is where hubby was looking. Would you suggest trying to see a travel agent for transportation part of trip. Have never used one, we have always done our own thing and it's worked out fine up til now! lol This has to be the MOST CONFUSING PART OF PLANNING THE TRIP! Don't want to get there and find out we are paying top dollar for something we could get for 1/2 the price.

Ok, DH is driving me nuts! He is convinced that the "Global Pass Saver" is the best thing to do thru RailEurope. He checked and came up with a 15 day pass within 2 months for $1274 for 2 people. Does that sound right? I hope someone can confirm that this sounds about right! He compared the separate trains in each place and he says the pass works out the best! If anyone has any ideas I would really appreciate it!

Please, have your husband read this: http://www.seat61.com/Europe-train-tickets.htm
and this: http://www.seat61.com/Railpass-and-Eurail-pass-guide.htm

It is very likely that he is comparing the pass to the MOST expensive tickets. Since your dates are set you should be buying tickets with an early-buyer discount, just like budget airlines.

The best place to buy discount tickets is from each countries train company. For Switzerland, it's http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html

Your pass may be cheaper than point-to-point tickets, but you would have to check prices on each countries train company (not RailEurope as they mark up the ticket prices). You also have to remember the pass does not include seats (required on many trains) and sleeping accommodations on overnight trains. In Italy, you will have to pay 10€ (about $13)per person for seats on each train. France limits the number of passholder spots on some trains. Here's a list of supplements you will have to pay in addition to the cost of the pass.
http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/pdfs/reservations.pdf

OK, more on passes and fares.

1. Why is he buying a 15 day Global Pass? On that pass those are CONSECUTIVE days. If you activate it on Aug 31 it will expire before you leave Italy. He should be looking at a combination of a Select Saver Pass and a multi-country pass, but that will change the per day cost of the pass for comparitive purposes.

2. Eurail passes are not valid in the UK. There is a BritRail pass, but you would be better off buying cheap day returns for day trips and regular tickets in advance for longer trips. For example, London-York for two adults in first class is 166 GBP if bought for next week, but 110 GBP if bought for next month. Given your dates I would probably just buy the UK tickets Aug 26, but if you think you'll be too jet-lagged you can buy ahead and pick them up in London.

3. The pass will get you a special fare on London-Paris and Brussels-London, but it is more expensive than the cheapest "buy ahead" fare, and is subject to quotas. Buy from eurostar.com (tell it you live in Canada or the UK) and pick up your tickets in London. You can buy 120 days ahead of time.

4. Passes are usually not worthwhile for short journeys in Italy, they may be worthwhile for longer journeys, if you insist on traveling in first class.

5. Passes are usually not worthwhile for Eastern Europe - I wouldn't use a pass day for Vienna-Budapest.

So, the train journeys you should be pricing are Paris-Zurich (day), Zurich-Milan (day), Venice-Vienna (night), Budapest-Prague (day - the night train gets in at 4 in the morning), Prague-Amsterdam (night), and possibly Milan-Rome and Naples-Florence. Note that you will have to pay extra for seat reservations for these trains on top of the cost of the pass, and for sleepers on the night trains. Again, there is likely to be a quota for pass holders. You cannot buy tickets on these trains more than 90 days (sometimes 60 days) in advance, but you can price them for 90 days out and expect to see similar fares when you can book. Even though I am a train fan, I might look into flying Budapest-Prague or Prague-Amsterdam - try whichbudget.com and skyscanner.net for cheap flights.

What a great trip! I don't have any advice. I am just so excited for you and I am looking forward to reading this trip report.

Thursdaysd, thanks so much for all the information. Maybe if DH reads exactly what you wrote he will listen to you and investigate what you have posted. Tentek, This is going to be the longest trip we have even taken! If we survive this without killing each other we can do anything! lol Will make a point of posting a trip report when we return. It might not be the best you have even read, but I will try and incorporate all our must do's and must NOTS!

I always highlight these three fantastic sites for discusssions not only about railpasses but European trains - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. And price is not the only factor in a railpass IMO - but in many countries you have complete flexibility to hop any train anytime and fully flexible tickets can cost a ton. Plus if over 25 Eurailpasses usually come only in first class and in my decades of travel on European trains with a first class pass I can say there is a big difference between first and second class and first class is well worth the extra money so IMO compare first class fares to the cost of the first class pass!

I second the recommendations to review the seat61 and Rick Steves websites -- great information.

If I counted right, I think you have 11 major train trips that a railpass would cover. So,you can get away with a 10-days in 2 months railpass rather than the 15. (I always make the assumption that short day trips are too cheap to warrant using the railpass. And, you can buy point-to-point tickets for that one extra train ride -- the cheapest one, of course!) On the Eurail and Rick Steves websites, the cost is roughly $1500 USD for two 10-days in 2 months Global Pass Savers.

To see if the railpass is cost effective, I always divide the railpass cost by the number of major train trips to figure out the per trip cost. So, since you will be making 10 major train trips, your per trip cost with the railpass would be $75/per person.

Now, you can look at the point-to-point costs using the links on the seat61 website to compare. I think you will see that you can do better with point-to-point tickets.

As others have said, don't forget the extra charges for seat reservations which apply whether or not you have a railpass.

One other thought is that I find 2nd class train travel to be much more fun than 1st class (which is what you get with the railpass) -- in 1st class you tend to be with business people whereas in 2nd class you have families and fellow travelers.

I know this all seems like a lot of work, but it really can save you money. And it does give you the opportunity to learn all about European trains before you go.

Train travel in Europe is great fun, and your trip sounds wonderful!

Magster 2005 WOW! thanks for all that information! I am going to do exactly what you suggested, start checking prices for the point to point! I appreicate that 2nd class is cheaper and more exciting then 1st, buy DH wants first class, and at this point that's one thing that's not worth arguing about! lol DH loves to research, this is what he said he did already, so I think I'll do the same and see if we come up with the same amounts! Great idea of getting the 10 days instead of 15 because we figured with the 15 we would be eating 2-3 days of the pass! Stupid on our part of not even thinking of just buying one point to point! Just curious before I start my research, do you know what the average price a reservation is with the pass?

I can't tell you how much all your information has helped! Many thanks to everyone! I will keep you posted as to the information I come up with! All this, is really getting me more excited about the entire trip!!! I was anxious to begin with, but feeling better after getting more information from all of you!

Glad I could help. The Eurail website has lots of information on seat reservations: http://www.eurail.com/planning/train-seat-reservations/reservation-fees#international

Here's something I found really helpful when I first started riding the trains. When you get to the train station, you will look at the "big board" to see what track your train is coming in on. But when you get out to the track, you also want to look at the train composition board -- it's a board that tells you where your train car will be. For example, Car 05 may arrive at "D" -- an area marked by a sign with a "D" or a "D" painted on the platform floor. Very helpful, especially with the really long trains!

except in France there is IME of decades of rail travel in Europe any problem making required seat reservations in Europe as you go along - France however is different and apparently has a limit on the number of railpass seats on popular TGV routes such as Paris-Avginon-Nice - these can be very hard to make once there so unless you are flexible in changing dates or routings - say instead of booking Paris to Avignon TGV directly if not available book the twice hourly TGVs to Lyon and take a local train to Avignon from there, etc.

Magster2005 thanks again! You are really a big help! And I certainly do did it! lol

PalenQ would you suggest doing reservations as we go? I know from what we have read we need to book London to Paris on Eurostar ahead. It just kind of makes me nervous to wait because we have all the places we are staying booked for certain dates.

Well if money is a factor yes because to book in the US means going thru RailEurope or ACP Rail - the two major European rail outlets in North America and they charge about $12 per seat - maybe a bit more now - and a one-time about $20 handling fee for the whole order - for two folks p.p. this can add up - in Europe though you will pay about $5-8 per seat reservations often so maybe it is not that much more for total peace of mind and you just having to show up and get on the train - making reservations in Europe can be time consuming as IME you must go to the ticket window and do it - automatic machines often do not work for simple passholder reservations.

I only make reservations for certain TGVs in France because I know it can be iffy to make them there - all others I see on your itinerary would be easy to make in that they are readily available - especially since you have a first class pass - but time consuming - and for reservations here I can highly recommend Byron at www.budgeteuropetravel.com, whom I have bought passes from for years - a RailEurope agent you can talk to and an expert at booking - often tells you you do not need to book - like on some of your train trips where reservations are not obligatory I would, with a first class pass for sure, just show up - in decades of travel with a first class pass I can rarely remember anytime not finding empty seats, often several of them in first class train cars - so I would only reserve the ones where reservations are obligatory before boarding the train - like in Italy and France - but not in any other country you have on your itinerary above - of course I would book also the overnight train to Amsterdam. Do any reservations when you buy your pass to avoid any mailing fees that are typical if just doing reservations separately.

Eurostar trains London to Paris or Brussels to London are not part of the Eurailpass scheme but there are passholder fares that can be good deals. Compare fares at www.eurostar.com in British pounds and euros from Brussels vs passholder fares your agent can quote when booking your railpass - sometimes the non passholder fares at eurostar.com can be cheaper than the passholder fare but not always so check both.

Clear as mud now?

>>>making reservations in Europe can be time consuming as IME you must go to the ticket window and do it - automatic machines often do not work for simple passholder reservations.<<<

In Italy, you can make them on the ticket kiosks (touch screen in English and very easy to use). You can also easily make them on Trenitalia, but not more than four months in advance. As you can see from this webpage, there are long lines for the ticket windows, yet the kiosks have no lines. You can follow the step-by-step directions (includes pictures of each screen) for buying a ticket, but when you get to the screen to select type of fare, you select global pass.
http://www.roninrome.com/%20transportation/buying-train-tickets-updated

To book them online on Trenitalia, you would also just select the train you want and then under the fare drop down box, select global pass.

kybourbob - will US credit cards, no chip-and-pin, work in the trenitalia machines? I know they don't work in the French ones.

PalenQ - can't you buy reservations on the national railway web sites, the same way you would buy tickets? I thought I had seen on seat61.com that you could do that.

to my knowledge on www.bahn.de - the German Railways site you can buy reservations without buying tickets - but I have no firsthand knowledge of this and I have not heard it possible on sites of national railways because they do not offer that option - but things are changing and in the past year this could have changed - give it a try but really only in France and Italy do you need reservations because they are mandated and at one station in those countries you can book all the trains for that country. And in Italy I hear now that you can make passholder reservations on automatic ticket machines - not easy to do and you have to know what to do and I do not. In France machines do not do it to my knowledge.

If you have a first-class pass in other countries I think any reservations a waste of money - again I say this from years of experience - first class always has empty unreserved seats IME.

But check seat61.com and please report back as this is a common query.

seat61.com says pass-holders are likely to need seat reservations for long-distance trains in France, Italy, Spain and Portugal. On buying them direct online he says that it doesn't work for France and Spain, but it does for Italy and Germany for domestic routes and some international.

See: http://www.seat61.com/Railpass-and-Eurail-pass-guide.htm#reservations%20or%20pay%20supplements%20with%20a%20railpass

>>>kybourbob - will US credit cards, no chip-and-pin, work in the trenitalia machines?<<<

Mastercard and Visa. Haven't tried AmEX, but Trenitalia doesn't accept AmEx online.

PalenQ, Boy I think for the peace of mind(being this is the first time doing all countries by train) I would rather book ahead to make sure we have nothing to worry about when we get there! You figure an added $24 per trip ($12 pp) plus an added $20 fee, do I have that correct? We are saving so much money already (air, hotels), I think the extra for the trains might not be a bad idea! I tell you, DH traveled into NYC (trains,subways driving etc)his entire life, and I don't think it was as confusing as this! Maybe it's just me but everywhere I look everyone has different opions on what and how to do rail travel. I was reading Rick Steves book "Europe through the Back Door" and that indicates buying a rail pass is best!(not the cheapest) He actually has a form on line to help out with what pass or tickets to buy. Just printed it out, will see if it helps!

With the amount we are spending and saving already I think peace of mind might be worth the extra dollars! Going to check the www.seat61 website again and see if I can make more sense of what everyone is saying. I have traveled quite a bite making our own reservations, transportation etc. without a tour or a travel agent, but this really is confusing! Is it just me? Another question in regards to the transporation issue. I also read that you will have to carry your luggage up and down flights of stairs at times (one of the reasons for traveling light). Does anyone know about how much a porter would cost and if they are readily available, just in case! We are in good health, but remember we are seniors! lol We want this to be fun and exciting not a triathlon! lol thanks again everyone for everything! Back to the research! I hope I'm not the only senior (or even young person) that finds this comfusing! I will report back with whatever the outcome is!

>>>Does anyone know about how much a porter would cost and if they are readily available, just in case!<<<

Porters don't exist at most stations. You need to be able to carry your own luggage. Some of the trains in Italy only stop for 2 minutes so you need to be fast. Usually the longer distance fast trains are in the stations 10-15 minutes so you have more time.

>>>You figure an added $24 per trip ($12 pp) plus an added $20 fee, <<<

Each country has their own train company. Each country has their own fee for seats so it's not one size fits all. In Italy, seat fees for the AV and ES trains (fastest trains) are 10€. For the slower IC trains the cost is only 3€.

Kybourbon, Well I guess you answered a lot of my questions! Not that I like the answers (lol)! I didn't think all countries would be the same, I was just trying to figure an average of what it would cost.

I guess when people say travel light, it is really important! Well here we go again, I thought just the train scheduling was going to be hard! The packing for me is going to be even harder! I am assuming we will really have to arrive an 1/2 hr to 1 hr early just to find where our train will be! Just to make sure we have time to jump on! Any suggestions on how to pack REALLY LIGHT? I was going to have one med size suitcase and my backpack for cameras, medicines etc. I guess I'm going to be doing a lot of wash! lol We will be starting out in hot weather in Paris (late Aug) and ending up late Oct! I guess that means a lot of layering and duel purpose clothing and not a lot of buying while I'm there! Boy the grand-kids are going to be disappointed! lol Thanks so much for all your advise! No wonder so many people go on tours, but I can't take the structure of them! This is really going to be amazing if we pull this all together! Thanks again.

travel_nana - I think it may be less confusing if you treat each country as a separate entity (which it still is), instead of thinking of the whole thing as "Europe".

Regarding seat reservations, I agree with PalenQ that you only need to buy them on trains that require reservations (like the TGV in France). So that decreases the number of seat reservations you will need significantly. PalenQ: am I right that even if unreserved seats in 1st class were full (VERY unlikely), she would also have the option of traveling with her railpass in second class? (not ideal, I know, since she has a 1st class pass, but a good fallback plan if necessary)

Since you have a fixed itinerary, you can buy your required seat reservations (to use with the passes) ahead of time. We are seniors too, and sometimes convenience and peace of mind trump cost (something I would never have said in my backpacking days LOL).

When you get closer to your trip (90 days out), you can decide exactly what trains you want: dates, itineraries, and times (bahn.de is the resource for doing this). Since you can buy your rail passes and your seat reservations at the same time, you can contact RailEurope or ACP Rail for a quote on your total cost (for rail passes and required seat reservations).

At the same time, you can start lookling at your costs for your major point-to-point tickets using the websites referenced on seat61. This will also help you feel more comfortable using these websites, so you will know how they operate if you decide to buy your tickets this way.

Whether you decide on railpasses with selected seat reservations or point-to-point tickets, you can buy your major train travel ahead of time and then relax and enjoy your trip.

I don't know the answer about the porters, but I can tell you that whenever I have struggled getting my bag up steep stairs in a train station, some nice young man always seems to come along to help me out! (sorry Gloria Steinem)

You figure an added $24 per trip ($12 pp) plus an added $20 fee, do I have that correc>

Well seat reservations cost something if done in Europe as well - say 4-5 euros on an average so that is $6-7 so subtract that from the $12 - so say $6 extra over Europe. And really if doing seat reservations again I would highly recommend Byron at www.budgeteuropetravel.com - someone you can talk to and a real expert whom I have dealt with for years - sure hteir number is on the web site - try seat61.com but for the easiest way out try him.

Magster - yes with a first-class pass you always sit in 2nd class - and in reverse with a 2nd class pass you can sit in 1st class and then on the train pay the difference between the normal 1st and 2nd class fares - usually the case IME anyway.

Again, Thanks! I know peace of mind is going to win out! So I have one less bottle of wine somewhere to make up for the difference in price! lol Now here goes another question! Is there any web-site (like seat guru for airlines) that show the sit configuration of the trains so we know what seats are best to reserve? I know I keep asking what you might think are stupid questions, but I want to make sure I'm doing this all right! PalenQ I'm going to check www.budgeteuropetravel.com and if I have questions speak with Byron. Magster, thanks for your input, a few years ago I wouldn't have asked all these questions! I would have just gone!!!

There are other threads here regarding packing light. If you do a search in the box at the top of this page you will find good information.

Thanks cathies, I just printed out Rick Steves list also!

I don't know of a website for train seating. The only issue I can think of is whether you want to have the usual 2-seat configuration or a table for 4 with two seats on each side. I usually try to avoid the table because if all 4 seats are taken, it feels really crowded.

>>>I am assuming we will really have to arrive an 1/2 hr to 1 hr early just to find where our train will be!<<<

Might not help. A train may be scheduled to arrive at certain platform, but can be changed to another one at the last minute.

>>>I guess when people say travel light, it is really important!<<<

Be sure to allow for some laundry time.

Your pass won't include you sleeping arrangements for an overnight train. If you don't want to share with other people, the pass supplement can cost more than flying one of the budget airlines.

I haven't been able to digest all this but I do wonder why you are so set on all rail. I can appreciate it for a long point to point--and you do need to educate DH that second class is probably more than equal premium in the US.
RailEurope will really add to your costs. I believe you can also search on the German rail system as well as the French.
I'm going to guess that Greece and Denmark, the Croatia part are real outliers here. Yes, you can do it all, but tiring and "if it's Tuesday it must be Belgium" will set in quickly.
I'd pick UK, then Paris for a week (at least, for me). Rent a car and tour a bit of France--maybe training to Provence for a few days and rent car there. Or to Normandy.
Either go to Spain or Italy. Rent a car and tour, although you might be able to just train between places in Italy and not have to have a car..
Fly to Spain? Long train ride
What if you put down how long you'd like to spend in each of these areas and total it up to see how your time is.
Europe is a LOT more than castles and photo ops.
You need to put down how long you want to spend in your major cities, then what to do between.

The only issue I can think of is whether you want to have the usual 2-seat configuration or a table for 4 with two seats on each side>

If they have a Eurailpass and are over 25 years old it will be first class and then they have the choice of so-called solo seats - seats with one seat in a row - with an aisle and a window and for couples two of these facing each other with a table in between.

2nd class indeed does only offer the two by two rows of seating and tables IME are much less common in 2nd class as well but this varies from country to country.

Anyway I love the aisle and window seat where I need to bother others to get up and vice versa and also can more easily stow my luggage under my seat without bothering others. to me the solo seats a big difference between first and second class - of benefit also to heavy or tall people (seats in first class are also about 25% bigger as there are about 25% less in the same-sized train car. IME lots more empty seats in first class as well - I often can put my bags on an adjoining seat - 2nd class IME usually much fuller - again this all varies from country to country - but if you a Eurailpass saves you money over 2nd class tickets then you get first class as a perk.

Gretchen, as I said in the the beginning, Our flight is set into and out of London due to the fact we have free 1st class tickets! And the other places we are going we want to see and are set and reserved already. The entire itinary is posted. We are renting cars in 3 different places Naples, Austria, and Tuscany area of Italy (we have some side trips we want to do and actually see and hike in the countryside. We have been on trains in europe and DH wants first class, and after seeing the train we were on going to budapest, I agree! The second class wasn't anything I would want to do! Again we are saving so much money with the airfare and hotels we can afford more on the trains!

PalenQ, thanks again for the great information! We are going to look up on each rail website to see what they offer in the way of seats. The aisle and window seat looks like the way we would go. DH is a big man so first class is the only way he is going to go and be comfortable! After all this is a trip we will never take again, so I we are trying to make it the best we can afford! We will be back to Europe, but not the same places, unless something really hits us, like Austria! This is our third time there! We just love it! Thanks again for all your information and time!

Sorry, in trying to get the gist, I completely missed that you had finally pared your huge itinerary--and had actually pared it to what I thought was close to possible to enjoy.
Have a good time.

thanks travel nana - actually the seating is very similar now on most trains - long distance trains you will be taking with little variance IME from country to country. And with a first class pass or tickets IME you will find several empty seats in first class so a tall guy can spread his legs out, etc.

the two by two rows of seats is standard in 2nd class
and row of 1 seat and two seats standard in 1st class

some trains still have compartments - and these usually have three seats facing three seats in first class and in 2nd, in the same sized compartment four seats by four seats, those these are not standard always and you will see varieties of sometime 3 by 3 in 2nd class and 2 by 2 in first class, etc.

But most trains it seems now are open cars without compartments or having some special compartments for families, handicapped, etc.

The trains in western Europe are mostly the "airline-style" as PalenQ describes, in good condition: those in eastern Europe often have older rolling stock and are more likely to be compartment-style. You can often tell which side of the old Iron Curtain you are on from the rolling stock. Given your itinerary, the only trains that might be substandard are the Vienna to Budapest and Budapest to Prague.

I believe there are however Austrian trains running between Vienna and Prague or Budapest and these are up to snuff - more than that - I have always considered the Austrian trains to be amongst the finest in Europe. there is also hydrofoil service between Vienna and Budapest.

Notice I said "might". If you get lucky it's an Austrian train. Actually, these days you don't need to count on luck, you need to book the RailJet - RJ on bahn.de.

Grenchen, Glad you think our itinerary is possible! We tried to incorporate a timeshare we have and all the points we have accumulated in Hilton and Marriott! I think DH did a pretty good job! The apartment rentals and the timeshare all have a washing machine so we are able to catch up on laundry in those places! Two of the rentals we have are actually owned by people in the US so it's nice to be able to communicate with them easily! Thanks to you and PalenQ I am reassured about the trains. I was judging the trains by the only one we used a few years ago. The second class had all sorts of animals, it was like a cattle car with people added! I will check out Railjet! DH says I'm going a little too crazy about all the train details, but I just want everything to go well! I know things will happen, but I want as little as possible to happen that is negative! (I think he might be right, but I'm not going to tell him that!lol)

We are also doing some overnight stays in different places like going to Matera from Naples for a night! Matera (city of caves) really looks like something so different we have to see it! If you know of any places that are different in the areas we will be in, please let me know. We love exploring! Again, thanks PalenQ and thrusdaysd for all your help!

Obsessing over details while planning is fine. Just relax and let go when you walk out the door on day one.

check of www.bahn.de shows as of yet or really tomorrow there is no Rail Jet trains running to Prague, but mainly inside Austria it seems - but in Austria yes those are really really neat nice trains to ride if you can.

No, the RailJet was for Vienna-Budapest, I suspect the Budapest-Prague run is luck of the draw. Since the night train gets in at 4:00 am, as I said earlier, I'd recommend taking one of the day-time EuroCity trains, which stands a good chance of being comfortable.

Thursdaysd, I thought Budapest to Prague was a fairly normal thing to do when on a tour. I would think it would be a pretty regular train ride! (again, I guess you never know how different countries are!). I will take your recommendation on the day-time EuroCity train from Vienna-Budapest. We always drove through countries before so I never really had to worry, because DH was doing all the driving! lol DH has been doing some checking today, and is having a hard time finding a direct train from Prague to Amsterdam! Even a overnight train! They all seem to change a few times. So he was going to look into going from Prague to Berlin (which seems to be a main hub). Stay in Berlin overnight then train to Amsterdam the next day. It seems to be the least complicated. What do you think?

I think, as I said a while back, that you should check whichbudget.com and skyscanner.net for a budget flight for Prague to Amsterdam....

BTW, I was recommending RailJet for Vienna to Budapest, and EuroCity for Budapest to Prague.

thursdaysd, found a flight on easyjet,through skyscanner.net! thanks again, I forgot you had even told me about those web-sites! I was so into the trains! lol Excellent! Now we get an extra day in either Prague or Amsterdam. Will have to check and see which would be best. Have any suggestions? We haven't even gotten to what we are going to see and do in each place. That is going to be the fun part!

PalenQ, finally talked DH into re-checking all the individual country web-sites for train fares. He is FINALLY seeing that it might be cheaper. It takes a while! After all he's an irishman and they can be a little stubburn! lol

http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/#timetable

check this link to the www.bahn.de - or German Rail schedule site for all European trains - I give this link because they give you several useful tips for using the Wunderbar www.bahn.de site that may not be apparent at first glance. But my main point for you is to see which trains carry the note: Subject to mandatory (obligatory) reservation - these trains need seat reservations before boarding - and if it does not say that then in first class IME there is no need to reserve seats and IMO is a waste of time and money. I would only make the ones required - basically in France, Spain and Italy - in nearly all other countries you can just hop on any train anytime with a pass, which with your ambitious plans to me is a no brainer, especially since it is if over 26 yrs old first class.

PalenQ, having a real hard time with all sites for the train from Budapest to Prague. The only site that will give us a price is raileurope. We are putting in a date for next month just to get an idea of price and times. I see we can go on the EC170 train that takes approximately 7-8 hours, but when I try putting into the www.bahn.de web-site it won't give a price. We also just found out that the train from Venice to Austria (Salzburg) was replaced by part with a bus! Does anyone know of any other trains except the overnite one to do this part of the trip? Really don't mind the bus if I could get some feed back from people who have taken it. Anyone? Looks like the only way to go anyway! Who says traveling by train in Europe is easy???? Could have fooled me! lol

bahn.de won't price that route because it isn't in Germany. Try http://www.mav-start.hu/english/index.php

Not sure what your problem is with Venice-Salzburg. There's a 13:34 departure on bahn.de that shows a EuroCity connecting to a RailJet.

Breath.... You're not leaving until August.

the bus link was last year from Austrian border to Venice but now trains run straight thru according to bahn.de

travel nana - you could save lots of time and worry by just opting for the Eurailpass - I say this because you are traveling so much that even discounted tickets online that are not always so easy to book would or could be more expensive all told. Maybe you are traveling less now than before though as I have not read all the many posts. And again that is first class and my decades of incessant European rail travel make me exhort folks on the trip of a lifetime to go first class - many more empty seats so you can just hop on without worries - bigger seats, more comfy, more room for luggage - if you come up with a series of 2nd class online discounts that usually cannot be changed nor refunded and they are almost as much as a first class pass but a bit cheaper go for the pass - do not discount the benefits of first class - price is not always the bottom line. With a pass you can leisurely pack up at your hotel and head to the station - if you miss one train just take the next of the usually hourly trains, etd. And just save hours and hours of time plying those confusing sites.

Oh, I think DH just got off that site, and it was a bus! I'll have him check it again! I do hope you are right, because a train would be my option! I am also thinking Eurailpass is the best and absolutely first class! We have no questions about that! This could really drive you nuts on all the different web-sites! I don't think a couple of hundred dollars savings is worth the time and effort at this point! I would much rather be searching the things we are going to see and do when we get there! This rail thing is exhausting! As always thanks for all your help! You have been a God send! I think the only place we have to fly is from Prague to Amsterdam and that we found of EastJet so at least that's one thing that seems a little not stressful! lol Doing that one flight we can get the 10 trip 2 month pass if I'm not mistaken. Which isn't bad. The only separate train will be the Eurostar from England to Paris. (I hope) thanks again!

But you're still going to need seat/sleeper reservations on a lot of trains even with the pass. And aside from the 13:34 train I mentioned in my post just before PalenQ's, most Venice-Salzburg routes do show up with buses on bahn.de.

thursdaysd, I realize we need the reservatons on most of the trains even with the pass, but I think the pass will but DH mind at ease. And I guess we are just going to have to bus it the Venice-Salzburg route! From what I can see the first class bus seats don't look bad and we'll be able to see the country! Trying think positive!

PalenQ, we went on the bahn.de site, and it still has a bus as part of the trip. If you see something different please let me know. These web-sites are confusing! As I keep seaching on different blogs, I'm finding out I'm not the only one that thinks that! Degrees and common sense mean nothing when it comes to train travel in europe! lol Can't wait till we have the train travel part over with and we can get into the planning of what to see and where to go in each place! I know my next question is going to be how to get from the stations to our hotels etc!. So I might as well ask now! If the walk is too long or confusing, is it best to take taxis (even if it costs more)?

As I've said twice now, the 13:34 from Venice to Salzburg does not use a bus. You'd be on the bus for over three hours on the other departures, too long for me, plus the 13:34 takes the scenic route via Innsbruck. What do you have against using it?

I rarely take taxis in Western Europe, although I do on occasion in Eastern Europe, but if you're going first class presumably you can afford them. The other alternative, if the walk is too long, is public transport - your guide books should explain the options. I, would, for instance, take public transport in Paris, but possibly a taxi in Budapest (I was going to say Prague, but I remembered that the drivers there are notorious for ripping you off).

Hi, sounds like a great trip, try not to get too stressed over the planning details.

'I am assuming we will really have to arrive an 1/2 hr to 1 hr early just to find where our train will be!' - half an hour is pleeeenty of time, you really only need 15 minutes or so if you are confident at navigating your way round a station, but as you aren't (yet)let's say 30 mins. If you turn up an hour early you'll get pretty bored.

Luggage - pack light - yes - but don't feel you have to squash it all into a tiny bag. I'm not sure what size your intended 'medium' suitcase was but I travel with quite a large one when I'm on a longer trip. It has wheels. I can carry it upstairs. Good enough. Some people get an obsession about taking as little as possible for the principal of it - ok, that's a challenge they enjoy, but it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with taking more. Just make sure you can go up a flight or two of stairs with it and it has wheels for the flat bits, and you'll be fine. Major stations have escalators/lifts (elevators) anyway.

Luggage - pack light - yes - but don't feel you have to squash it all into a tiny bag. I'm not sure what size your intended 'medium' suitcase was but I travel with quite a large one when I'm on a longer trip. It has wheels.

In terms of size one can argue the reverse when it comes to a long trip. One can pack a suitcase for a two week trip and avoid doing a laundry. That is not possible for two or three months. So one has to figure on doing a laundry once a week or so, and might as well pack accordingly--i.e. lightly.

One of my travel "rules" is never to take more than I can carry, and I can't carry very much. I travel for weeks and months at a time with one carry-no size bag (although I check it on flights) and a day pack. I can get the bigger pack on the overhead rack on trains, although it is a bit of a struggle these days. No trouble getting it on the train. For my last trip I had a rolling suitcase as the bigger bag, but rather missed the backpack I had been using which was better on stairs and left my hands free.

My packing lists are on my blog: http://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com/2010/02/08/what-to-take-part-one/

Pack light yes is a mantra for veteran train travelers and especially those in second class where luggage storage area is significantly less available due to more folks being seated in the same size train car - lots of bags strongly consider first class IMO.

Sorry about that thursdaysd, I have been looking and reading so many different things about trains, I didn't look exactly at the 3:34 from Venice! I will, because if it's easier I'm diffenently for it! As for the taxis, I was asking, because if they DON'T cost too much, I think I would do it,so I know I will get to where I'm suppose to without getting lost! There are a lot of places we're going that we have never been before, and this train thing has been enough without having to needlessly worry about getting to our hotel! These are just questions so I can get as many opions as possible to have choices. Thanks for all your help! I know it must be frustrating dealing with someone that doesn't know much about what you are saying! I'm usually not this sutpid! lol

To all, I am determined to fit everything in a 25" Briggs and Riley soft sided wheeled suitcase! We brought these about 2 years ago; and at that time they were the lightest weight luggage they had with wheels! (I'm not the stongest person in the world and DH got tired of lugging our large heavy constructed ones even off the belts at the airport!) I will also have a backpack for my cameras and personal items. Do you think this is ok? I know this might sound big to some of you, but there is no way I could travel for even a week (between seasons needing layering of clothes) with a small carry-on suitcase! I really hope it isn't too big, because I really don't know what else I would do! Also, four of the places we are staying in have a washer so I think we will do fine when it comes to laudry! Nona1, thanks so much for the information on the lifts etc at some of the rail stations! I thought there would have to be something that is handicapped accessable. I thought that was a law, at least in the U.S.it is!

PalenQ, as you know we are going first class no matter what! So I hope my luggage size will be ok! I know most people want to travel the cheapest way, but there are some things that are worth a little more money to us! Everyone has different priorities, doesn't make one person right or wrong it's just what you think is more important! I think traveling with my mind at ease and my body confortable is important. Others might think eating at good restaurants are more important then the way you get there! Neither of us is right or wrong it's just personal priorities! I hope this made sense! Thanks again!

Sorry, but ADA is a US law, not applicable elsewhere. In Western Europe you will often find handicap accessibility, but even there it isn't a given, and it will be rarer further east. Only a few central London tube stations, for instance, are wheelchair accessible. Many B&Bs only have stairs. Older buildings can't always be retrofitted.

25 inches is bigger than I use - I think mine is 22. You really need to be able to carry it up stairs yourself, if not, get something smaller and cut back. Remember, the only person who will know that you are wearing the same three outfits all the time is your husband.

In all our travels, with the exception of going to Europe with a 10 month old, we never used two suitcases larger than a 22" for the two of us.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/4409219181/in/set-72157623094971409

Travel Nana
I have not read all the above posts but noticed you mentioned problems with investigating the Budapest Prague train.

I have just checked the MAV-START (the Hungarian state railways) website and it looks as though you can still get the tickets for 19 euros and 29 euros that were on offer for this journey 4 years ago.

Then we could not book on line but now it seems as though you can. We had to go to Budapest-Keleti Station to book a couple of days in advance and got the 29 euro tickets.
We travelled second class and found it very pleasant and easy.

I could not see any first class tickets and it may be that this is because no special offer is available and you just walk up to book.

I certainly agree that trying to look at all the different train websites and making sense of them takes a lot of time and effort! Good luck with your planning.

Thanks so much sprial! I'm so glad we started early with these arrangements! Can't wait to be finished booking trains!

thursdaysd, I know I don't travel very light,and I don't mind anyone seeing me in the same outfit 2 or even 3 times, but I just can't imagine fitting all the things I have into a 22" suitcase! A 24" yes, but 22" maybe it's me, but I think just 2 pairs of shoes (one that is hiking) and layering clothes (i.e. light jacket, sweat shirt), would take up the entire thing without any extra's. What do you bring,that takes up such little room? And I'm not even a big person! lol AS for the ADA, I know what you are talking about, we found it rather hard to find rentals with elevators, but we did it! I don't mind a flight of stairs, but I have been in rentals where we had 3-4 flights with our luggage, and beleive me it wasn't fun, so I always make sure it's no more then one!I am getting up in years, and and not in bad health, but I don't think anyone likes lugging luggage up stairs no matter what age!

Sprial, Thanks!

The clothes section of my packing list is here: http://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/what-to-take-part-three/

You can get to the other two parts from there.

You wear the hiking shoes and wear or carry the jacket, plus you're wearing one outfit. And only one pair of walking shoes - I take a pair of sandals and a pair of flats for evening, but just one pair of lightweight hiking boots. What's the sweat shirt for? Instead of a sweater or cardigan?

thursdaysd, just checked the train again from venice to salzburg, the train you are talking about was replaced by a bus! It also gets in too late for us, because we have to pick up a rental car at the airport after arriving! If you look at the website it says "bus" for the first leg of the trip. We are looking into the 9:20 am departure from Venezia transfer (26 min) arrive salzburg 3:48pm in the day time so we can pick up our rental. First part of the trip is 3.5 hrs bus 2nd 2.5 hrs Villach to Salzburg by train. Unless I'm crazy, I don't see anything else during the day that gives us time to pick up a car.

What date are you looking at? The 13:34 is still showing EC, RJ when I look at it. But you're right, it gets in at 20:58. Of course, if you get up earlier, you could take the 6:58, which is all train, but you'd have to change twice. But are you not staying in Salzburg? If so, why do you need the car that day? If not, do you really want to start driving after a long journey?

thursdaysd, we do a lot of hiking/walking and they are the most comfortable shoes I have. I have had 2 operations on one foot and it's hard to find shoes that I can walk in for extended lenghts of time. The hiking shoes are a combo hiking/walking. I'm actually going to get another pair of walking shoes just in case. So now you are saying one sandle, one flat (which has to be a weg for me) the hiking (which I will wear) and a walking. That's 4 which is what I thought I would bring! Sweat shirt is for outside activities in Austria like hiking! Can't really wear a carsigan! Usually have tee shirt, sweat shirt, jeans or hiking capris (depending on weather). We actually are active, we don't just walk around cities the entire time.(I am into photography and some of my best pictures are off the beaten path!) I am going to look at your site to see what you bring. Maybe it's because I do so many different things from cities to hiking in the country! Could that be it? I also have to check what the weather will be in each place for the time of year, that might help to select what I bring! Haven't done that yet, too busy with trains! lol

thursdaysd, just got off your site! It's a great list and will help a lot! I still don't know how you fit that into a 22" case, but I guess I just have to learn HOW to pack! Thanks again for all your help! I'm sure I'm going to be needing a lot more advise! lol

travel_nana - as you'll have seen on my site, my hiking boots ARE my walking shoes. I wouldn't take another pair "in case", but if you have foot problems I might consider doing that and dropping the flats (for my bad feet) or weg. I don't take jeans, partly because I have trouble finding ones that fit me, and partly because they take too long to dry. Don't overthink the weather, if you shiver a little for a few days, as I did in the evenings at the end of my last trip, that's survivable.

trusadsd, thanks sounds good to me! I do have a problem with shoes so I will have to include an extra pair of shoes unfortionately You make a good point with jeans, but I can get so many days out of them! It might be worth just having them done in one of the hotels along the way. I do tend to overthink everything so I guess it is ok to be a little cold toward the end! Thanks so much for your help! Everyone on Fodor's is so great! And I have so many more questions as we progress that I know I will get help with! Thanks again! ALL

travel_nana - take the jeans, in fact if I were you, I'd take two pair. You will get many more days of wear from them, as you said, and if you do wash while in a rental, then you will have more than one day to make sure they dry. I never had a problem in three different trips drying my jeans in one day as long as they hung outside.

Thanks hazel1, I think they are the most practical for wearing more than once! I live in them when I'm away. We don't go out to eat dinner all the time (hence the reason we rent places and use timeshares that have full kitchens) Don't mind cooking in the rentals another one of my hobbies, so I really don't need too many dinner outfits!I'd rather work with one pair of black pants and two jeans! After all, the hiking shoes go much better with the jeans! lol Infact, speaking of hobbies, does anyone know of a good 1 day cooking school in some part of italy (I prefer around tuscany)? Haven't even looked into that yet!

thursdayds, we are staying in the ourskirts of Salzburg, so we do need a car. The place is actually in a small beautiful town in ski area. We'll need the car to get there! We love the country side in Austria, this is our 3rd time there and can't wait to go back! I'm hoping the transportation from the train to the car rental (airport) isn't too bad! We looked into rental places outside of airport, but we couldn't find any, so to the airport we go! This is our first time taking the train into Austria, we always rented a car before, so this should be interesting to say the least!

Bus or taxi. See http://www.salzburg-airport.com/en/passengers-visitors/arrival-parking/bus-train-taxi/

Thursdaysd, That's what I thought! Thanks again for the reasurance! That web-site was great!

'Only a few central London tube stations, for instance, are wheelchair accessible.'

That's actually not true.

From their website "London Underground has 63 stations which are step-free from street to platform".

I said CENTRAL London. There may be 63 step-free stations in the whole system, but very few of them are in Zone 1. And not many more in Zone 2.

See: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/standard-tube-map.pdf

nona1 adn thursdaysd, I guess I am just going to have to learn to carry my suitcase! Wish my back was in better shape! I can't beleive that I'm the only 60 something that can't carry her suitcase up or down 2 flights of stairs in train stations! I'll have to practice at home before I leave!lol This is really getting crazy, I thought this was suppose to be fun! In all the traveling I'v done I have never had so many different issues! Both of you are talking about London Underground and Central London, are you just talking about London or does that include different countries? You really have me confused now! I was asking about different train stations in different countries in general. Do most HAVE or do most NOT HAVE accessable trains? Just so I can get idea.

Most mainline stations in western Europe will probably have an elevator or escalator around somewhere. I don't need one so I never look. Some of the stations on your list, like Venice Santa Lucia and Milan, are "end of the line" stations, so you don't have to cross the tracks (requiring that you go up and down or vice versa) to get in or out of the station, although I seem to remember that there are stairs to get from the street into the station itself in Venice.

If it's that important, you could try emailing Mark Smith (the seat61 guy) and asking him.

Would your back be happier with a backpack? If it's a good pack and fitted properly, the weight goes on your hips, not your back.

Metro - tube - subway etc. systems are all or mostly underground. A few shallow lines (e.g. the yellow line in Budapest) only have stairs, but others have elevators and/or escalators. That doesn't mean that there are NO stairs at all, though.

A couple of things, luggage first.

There's a reason why these budget airlines are so inexpensive. There's a limit to how much you can carry on.

Easyjet has a strict carryon limitation, both in size and in quantity. ONLY ONE carryon is allowed! If you carry a purse, that's one carryon. If you carry a computer, that's one carryon. If you have two carryons, e.g., a suitcase and a purse, you'll have to check one in and pay the hefty price (it's between 25 and 40 pounds per bag, depending on when you pay the fee).

The size limitation is for a 20"-21" bag (there's a bin right at the gate and your bag has to fit inside the bin). If your bag exceeds that size, you'll have to check in your bag and pay the hefty fee.

So, travel light.

"You can take one piece of hand baggage into the cabin with you -no bigger than 56 x 45 x 25cm incl wheels- which must fit comfortably into the baggage gauge.
Hand bags, briefcases, laptops and laptop bags are all counted as one piece so if you have a hand bag and a laptop bag for example, you might want to consider putting one inside the other." [bolding mine]

http://www.easyjet.com/EN/Planning/baggage.html

One way is to get around the size and quantity limitations is to get a scottevest/scottejacket. These vests/jackets have many pockets and can be stuffed with as much stuff as a backpack. If you get one , get the vest one size larger than normal and the jacket two sizes larger than normal. You'll need the extra space for all the things you will be carrying in the pockets.

http://www.scottevest.com/

I have the SeV jacket and the standard vest. Once I was on an Easyjet flight and had too much luggage, so I stuffed all my electronics - netbook, camera, phone, all the cords, my lunch, magazine and backpack into all the scottevest/jacket pockets. I looked like both the fat lady from the circus and the hunchback from Notre Dame. Easyjet didn't care. All the girl cared about was that I had one - and only one - carryon, which was my 21" suitcase. Once on board, you can unload the stuffed jackets and put all the extra items into your backpack.


Second thing: go with PQ's suggestion and get a first class pass. If you miss one train, the pass allows you to get on any other train; whereas if you do single tickets, you're stuck with the exact train for which you purchased the ticket.

He's right in that in some countries, you just get on the train (the side of each train carriage has a big "1" or "2", so just get onto a first class carriage), there is no need to stress over reservations except in the countries mentioned.

Once you're on the train, just take any open seat. If someone has actually made a reservation for that seat, just move to another empty seat.

It's all very easy, don't stress it.

Have a safe trip! And enjoy! (Isn't that the whole purpose of this trip? )

H Travel_Nana: It sounds like you have quite a trip planned. I just thought I would add a few thoughts. (I am a 60 something woman traveling alone.) I was referred to BYRON
AT BETS on this forum many years ago. He is so knowledgeable and I have gotten my
rail passes from him. I have traveled most of the places you are going by train. I have
missed my train in the early years because i had too much luggage and couldn't quite make it running down the steps and back up to the other side (but I must say that there are gentlemen, all over Europe, including young men, who have felt sorry for me and helped me carry my luggage. I usually only go to 3 countries in 6 weeks because I don't like to change hotels so often. I love train travel. One meets very interesting people and the scenery is beautiful. I don't wear jeans because they are too heavy. I take a few outfits made of synergy fabric. Can be dressed up or down. Mostly black,
because in most big cities, it appears most wear black or beige (except at resorts). I take scarves and I have lots of vintage costume jewelry. I leave all the good stuff at home. I don't carry a regular purse. I have a thin leather coach bag that goes across
my shoulder (so that my hands are free). It has several zippers with room for my passport. I use a money belt but mostly I use the ATM and a credit card without foreign fees. I have bee to Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Czech REp.Latvia, Spain, GEr.,Morocco, Gibralter, England Scotland all alone by train and carry one small bag and one small roller (with meds, cosmetics etc and never have had a problem. Have a great time. Sounds like fun. Johanna
it sounds like a ver

Johanna, Thanks for the support! Someone else mentioned Byron at Bets too! Is it a service you pay him for, and they buy and send the tickets to you? If DH still has problems, with the train tickets I will be looking Byron up! Sounds like you have gone to a lot of the places I have been, Spain,Hungary, Czech Rep, Morooco, Gibralter! Can't wait to see the rest of the countries! We have been to Sicily, but not any other part of Italy! Unless you consider overnight (due to late luggage) in Rome airport hotel being in Rome! lol! You sound like a very independent person, good for you!!! I have a friend that does the same as you, and she enjoys every minute of her traveling! Where are you going next? Maybe it might be somewhere I've been and I could give you some advise! Thanks again for your support!

thursdaysd, thanks again as always! I think I can manage a few stations with stairs. I do have a backpack made just right to put the weight on my hips. I really think if I use the 25" light weight I told you about (not pack it to the breem) I should be all right! I really appreciate all the time and effort everyone has put into all my questions! Thanks everyone! I'm sure the questions will keep coming as the date gets closer and we are looking for things and places to do in each country! Thanks again!

Easytravler, The vest is a great idea! It's a great layering piece too! I'm going to check them out! We have desided no matter what we are going first class even if it costs more! We don't do this kind of trip every year, so might as well do it right! I went on easyjet web-site and I think it's 40 lbs for check in luggage, that's not bad! I usually have 50, but I'm determined to have it so I CAN CARRY it! Might have to get an entire new wardrobe, but I guess I'll have to suffer! lol I do use a backpack as my carry-on, it holds a small purse, cameras, etc. Thanks for all your info! I'm feeling a lot better about all this now!

Well, going from 50 to 40 is certainly an improvement, but for comparison my checked bag weighs 25 or less (depending on whether it's a backpack or a wheelie), plus whatever is in my carry-on (never actually weighed the carryon, but it has all the electronics and pharma).

You know, your problem isn't your back, it's your bag! I couldn't cart a 40 or 50 lb bag up and down stairs, and my back is fine. Pack lighter!

BTW, just for kicks I weighed my jeans - 12 oz and they're old and thin, yours may weigh more. Turned out my smart Tilly khakis weighed about as much, but my lightweight Railrider's khakis only weighed 6 oz. And weigh your bag as well, you may be starting with a handicap.

thursdaysd, at least I'm on the right track! 25 lbs! I'm going to have to go back to your list and Rick Steves to see what I'm doing wrong! I will wear my jeans and walking/hiking shoes that weigh the most, and carry on whatever jacket I bring (make sure it fits in my backpack). That's a good start, don't you think? I even brought a kindle for reading to save space and wt. I use my backpack for my cameras, meds, phone etc. I hope by the time I'm finished I'll be able to travel ANYWHERE with just one bag!!! How long have you been travling? Seems like you have it down to a science! I'm not an organized person to begin with! lol

Yes, that will help. On travel days I always wear my boots, even though they can be a pain in the security line at the airport (not in all countries, though). But then, they don't fit in my bag, so I don't have a choice. Remember the advice to only take one pair?

My first long trip was four and a half months in Asia in 2001 - see http://wilhelmswords.com/asia2001/index.html - but my bag then weighed about what it does now. More books then, more electronics now, plus the black Chico pants I now take for evenings weigh heavy.

But I already drank the Rick Steves' pack light Koolaid back in the 90s. I know that RS isn't popular here, but 10,000 people went on one of his tours last year, and every one of them managed with one carry-on size bag - 22 inches - plus some kind of day bag. If they can, you can!

Please, please, ditch the 25 incher! It will tempt you to take more, it probably weighs more to start with, and it will be a pain to maneuver. And note that putting stuff in your pockets to make room in your bag doesn't help. You're still carrying the weight, just in a different place!

I've been traveling for ten years now - at least three years of that on the road in all - and there's no way I could have done it with 40 or 50 lbs of luggage! You'll just be miserable if you try.

Ah, I see that my luggage weighed 35 lbs when I started the 2001 trip, but that included the day pack as well as the big pack.

Here is a tip I have found to be really valuable: try to meet up with someone at some point during your extended trip. We took our first "long form" trip of about 35 days in the Fall of 2006. We did a road trip through France and Northern Spain, and had a terrific time. However, we kind of tired of only having each other to enthuse about our adventures with. See if you can meet up with someone for drinks or a meal, or take an occasional guided tour with others, as much for the social interaction as to see a specific sight. You will be on the road a long time together.

We've met up with friends in Paris, Cape Town, Negril, Toulouse, NYC, Louisville, and Prague. It adds a lot to a trip, and particularly when you are on an extended trip of over a month, it is good for your relationship!

A few more suggestions:

On luggage: lay everything out on your bed, reduce by half, then pack everything in as if you were going to leave tomorrow. Put on all the things you are going to wear: boots, heavy coat, jeans and backpack. Then walk your luggage around the block. If you have stairs, carry your luggage up and down the stairs a couple of times. In other words, act as if you're already in Europe and on your trip.

(Trust me, you will reduce your luggage by yet another half!)

johanna has give you some good tips on what to pack. Choose a couple of basic colors (black being one) and do a mix and match. The great advantage of taking less is that you'll have less to worry about.

I'm probably older than you and have been traveling for a long time, sometimes alone and at other times with others. I've learnt to do with a minimum. Gone are the days when one had to pack in toilet paper and lots of reading material. The Kindle is a great idea, although I never had time to really read and spent a great deal of time on trains on my netbook. In the first class compartments, there are usually plugs to plug in and charge/recharge your netbook/phone/kindle. The plugs are usually in and around the armrest or under the seat. You'll soon learn to find a first class seat where you can plug in your electronics.

On adapters: which leads us to the topic of adapters. You'll need to have a small adapter for access to electricity. I just add an adapter to the end of my charger cord and leave it there for the duration of the trip. They are very cheap, only $1.40/ea on Amazon. You can afford to get at least two per person.

http://tinyurl.com/79ktrnp

On medicine: if you need any medicine or special glasses, start ordering them soon. If glasses, then order a backup pair. I always carry all my meds in a large clear baggie so that the airport security people can see the prescription labels at once. It saves the agent from having to paw through your luggage. Even the non-prescription drugs go into that baggie.

I have hayfever sometimes, Costco sells Claritin in a small plastic bottle which took up almost no room at all. So, think of your favorite non-prescription drugs that you might need also.

With the prescription drugs in their original containers, I once even had a prescription drug renewed in Austria - no problem at all.

On organizing: if you or your husband haven't done so already, start a chart in landscape format. I list the dates and the days of the week (M, T, W, Th, etc) on the extreme left, so that it starts out with "Jan 1, M"). It's important to know the day of the week, as museums, etc. tend to be closed on certain days. You don't want to end up in a city and find the museum that you made the long trip for is closed that day!

Then I list the flight/train number, the time for the flight/train, the reservation number (if any) and any other pertinent information.

Next I list the hotel for that night, along with its address and phone number (Obviously, if you're staying several nights, you need to list this info only once for that first night ). Also the reservation number. [Once I forgot to list the reservation number and was it pain to try and find it on arrival!]

The next column is for special events. I like opera, so in Europe I list the name of the opera and the opera house and its address. You can list any other special event that you have, e.g., going to see a special castle that involved buying tickets in advance.

When the chart is done. I print out a copy for each person on the trip. This way, if we ever get separated, we can always rendezvous at the next hotel/town. You wouldn't have any kids with you, so you don't need to take precautions in this regard, although it's still a good idea to have a printed copy.

Next I leave/give a copy of the itinerary along with photocopies of all essential documents, like passports and credit cards, with a family member/friend. This way, if anything gets lost, like a credit card and I somehow don't have the information, I can always contact that person at home and get the information.

On the scottevest: lastly, if you do buy the scottevest (which I think is a terrific product), get the men's vest for yourself. The ladies' vest is form-fitted at the waist. Looks nice but rather impractical once you bulk up the pockets. The men's vest is a straight up and down affair and allows more wiggle room inside the jacket once the pockets are filled.

On backpacks: one last, last thing

I've tried any number of backpacks and have finally settled on the Rick Steves Civita backpack. It's amazing, so lightweight and sturdy, washable too. My entire family each has at least one. Mine has lasted me about 15 years now with constant use during travel.

Yup the old adage take twice as few clothes and twice as much money as you think you need!

uhoh_busted, thanks for that tip! This is the longest trip we will have been on so far! We do have a road trip planned for the spring that will last 5 weeks, so that will be a good test!lol I know when we've been on some day tours we have met some very nice people and it does help as a diversion. Thanks again!

easytraveler, thanks so much for all the good information and all the time you spent writing it! I usually do lay out the clothes and get rid of some, but this the first time I actually HAVE TO!

Sorry, easytravler, my computer just went nuts on me! To continue, we do have adapters we need, because we have been to Europe before, so that's one thing out of the way. The spreadsheet is a great idea! I usually write my itinerary down day by day,with dates times places phone numbers etc. and always leave a copy with each of my children just in case! But the speadsheet way is an excellent idea! I'm going to look into the vest and the back-pack you suggested. I have a back-pack already, but if that one is lighter and more organized I'll get it! My biggest problem is with my cameras, I have to make sure they are in a padded section, so I don't have to take the entire camera case with me! See, I'm thinking weight! lol

Medicine was a big concern! I am on medicine that can only be issued every 30 days, so I was going to ask my MD how I handle that! She will give me whatever I need, I just have to make sure it's accepted in a pharmacy whereever I am. Over the counter meds alergy etc. I always bring just in case! I'v been in too many situations getting ill and not be able to find the right medicine I needed.

You have really been a big help! I'm going to go over your speadsheet items and start composing!

PalenQ, I go along with that adage, especially the money part! It's always more then planned!

Thanks again! Everyone is great!!!

Just spoke to someone that has been to Paris a few times, and she said that on the first of each month the museums are free! Can anyone confirm this? We are going to be in Paris on Sept 1 and might just luck out if that's true! Thanks in advance for any info!

I believe museums are free on the first Sunday of the month.