Two London questions, one of which is really dumb

I believe it's Mary le Bone.

I wondered about the West End myself. I think it got the name long ago when the West End was really the cewnter. It's the theatre district.

Allan
According to my British husband, Marlebone is pronounced Marra le bone.

As to the west end, he says the boundaries are a bit ill-defined but offers as follows: the southern boundary being north of the river from Charring Cross on the west to Waterloo Bridge on the east (alternatively the Strand), then Shaftsbury Ave. as the northern border, Queensway to the Aldwich on the east and Picadiily on the west. (He's drawn me a map that looks like a grand piano with Queensway to Aldwych as the "keys" of the piano if that makes any sense.) Ben Haines what do you think?

My Brit friend says Mar le bone
Get a Streetwise Map of London...no folding problems.

I do not think you can go wrong, as I say Mary le bone. So that is three Londoners, three pronunciations. Well, it is a free country.

Borders are less in dispute. I think Park Lane, Oxford Street, New Oxford Street, Kingsway, Aldwych, Strand, Cockspur Street, Pall Mall, Green Park, Piccadilly, Park Lane.

Welcome to Londres, Londra, and London

Ben Haines

Welcome to Londres, Londra, and London

Ben Haines

No longer Londinium?

It seems to be a subject of delight to pronunciation pedants, across the world wide web.

To wit:

From http://www.geocities.com/PEARCE2002/commentiii.doc

The name Marylebone, in London at least, was until about forty years ago, pronounced "marrabun," but is now generally called "maral'b'n." It is an odd example of the introduction of an "L" to a pronunciation over a period when most L's, not at the beginning of a word, have been dropped.

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From http://www.jibaros.com/lingo.htm

The amount of slurring depends on the degree of familiarity and frequency with which the word is spoken. The process is well illustrated by the street in London called Marylebone Road. Visitors from abroad often misread it as "Marleybone." Provincial Britons tend to give it its full phonetic value: "Mary-luh-bone." Londoners are inclined to slur it to "Mairbun" or something similar while those who live or work along it slur it even further to something not far off "Mbn."

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From http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/6/messages/33.html

Going by ‘marrow-bone stag,’ a play on the once-real Marylebone (pronounced 'Marrybun’) stage in London, means the same.”

We natives pronounce Marylebone 'Mar-le-bone'. I fear some joker is attempting to mislead our American cousins.

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From http://www2.prestel.co.uk/cello/WhatWeFind.htm

It was only about last year when I found out how the [sic]pronounce 'Marylebone'. I still don't like saying it to taxi drivers. I'd rather be dropped off on the Euston Road and walk.

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Best wishes,

Rex

For Ira: Alas, not a lot of us chat in Latin. Though I did hear on the World Service this morning that a Finnish professor of classics translates the words of tangos into Latin, and Finns sing them, so there is hope yet.


Maybe it s because I m a Londoner
That I love London so
Maybe it s because I m a Londoner
That I think of her wherever I go
I get a funny feeling inside of me
Just walking up and down
Maybe it s because I m a Londoner
That I love London town

Possible qua Londinianus
Londinium tam amo
Possible qua Londinianus
Re Londinio ubique penso
In interiore meo sensatio curiosa est
Andante
Possible qua Londonianus
Oppidum Londinium amo

Ben Haines

Most people tend to pronounce the first syllable "Marry" rather than "Mary". As for the rest "luh" and "bone" are fine.

Londoners can't agree on this one so anything sensible will ensure you're understood.

Did you know the origin of the name Marylebone is the French "Mary la bonne" or "the good Mary" (I believe it's the Virgin Mary that is referred to).

Is there a difference between "marry" and "mary"? I understand the difference between ferry and fairy, but not between marry and mary.

Or are you trying to get at the difference between starry and Larry?

Won't even try on the pronunciation issue, but I think I can help with tube stops. The Leicester Square stop puts you in the thick of things, but the West End is easily walkable from Piccadilly Circus as well.

To solve the map folding problem, buy an AZ Visitor's Atlas and Guide when you get to London, widely available at newstands, etc. Mine measures about about 4" by 6," and is spiral bound, so it's easy to fit into a pocket and can be used unobtrusively.

I hear a difference between a short "a" sound as in marry compared to a long "a" sound as in Mary. Maybe it's not the best was to explain the difference but it's just how I hear people in London say it.

Mary la bonne could also mean, Mary the Maid.

Tom, regional US accents have an effect on the way you pronounce "Mary", "merry", and "marry". I pronounce the first 2 the same, but the 3rd quite differently, with a broader "a". My relatives on the East Coast pronounce all 3 a bit differently.

thankyou thankyou MaryMary! Marylebone is one of those place names that has always piqued my interest but that i never researched!! Do you (or the devine Ben the Man of Letters) know the history of the name/ was there once a church on the site/in the area/does it date to the middle ages or later?? PS Ben very much enjoyed your latin translation; i think you must be fluent?.

Ben,
Thank you very much. That was great!
Katie

I think that to the English, there is a clear distinction between marry, which rhymes with Harry or Larry...

and Mary which they pronounce a bit like May-ree. And yet, I don't think they say scary that way. Nor vary.

Does anyone think that there is a difference between Garry Moore and Gary, Indiana?

Yes, we definitely would pronounce Mary and Marry differently. Mary would be pronounced as mare-ree and Marry pronounced ma-ree. Merry is pronounced similarly to Mary, but enough to hear the difference (not sure to describe it though). Scary would be pronounced as scare-ree and Vary as vare-ree.
At least, as a Londoner, that's how I would pronounce the words.

.........and in answer to the original question, I would pronounce Marylebone as Mar-le-bone.

OK, now lets confuse them with Southwark....

This history of the name, according the www.marylebone.net, is "The name Marylebone derives from a medieval church constructed on the banks of the Tyburn and called St. Mary-by-the-Bourne, later Maryburne".

Bill, we do pronounce Mary the same way as scary and vary, and indeed Marry is pronounced like Harry.

Two pronounciations of Marylebone are common and equally correct: "Marry - luh-bone" and "Marlibone",
but "Mary (as in scary) le bone" is not usual, and coupled with an american accent would sound like a mispronunciation.

and my two cents would be that for Americans, these words all rhyme exactly:

Barry, carry, dairy, fairy, Gary, hairy, Harry, Larry, Mary, marry, scary and vary.

None of them rhymes with berry, cherry, ferry, Gerry, Jerry, merry, Perry, Terry or very.