Melnq8

We’d hoped to return to Switzerland in October, but waited too long to book flights - prices doubled within days - so we did the next best thing and have booked flights into Zurich, out of Munich for December. Bring on the Christmas Markets (again!).

We’ve crunched the numbers and determined that the 8 day Swiss Pass (or whatever they’re calling it these days) is only slightly more than point-to-point tickets, and because we’ll be on and off so many trains and busses, we’re okay with paying just a wee bit more for the convenience and spontaneity of the pass.

The itinerary:

Scuol – seven nights – we plan to revisit Samnaun, Hof Zort, Val Mustair and (for those lovely Pizoccals). We’ll probably revisit some of the walks in the vicinity Guarda, Lavin, Ardez, Sent and Tarasp.

But...we’d also like to incorporate some places we’ve not visited before, such as the hiking tracks around Davos and Klosters, and perhaps a visit to Tschlin. As we’ll be there early December, we realize that most gondolas/cable cars won’t yet be operational, but that has never slowed us down before.

Does anyone have other recommendations for day trips from Scoul for a couple of nature-food-walk-wine-peace-loving-visitors from Colorado?

From Scoul we’ll take the train to Freiburg im Breisgau, where we’ll meet up with some friends from England and spend five nights. We hope to re-visit Colmar and possibly Staufen. We’d also like to visit Strasbourg and possibly Basel (?). We’ve previously visited the Black Forest from Freiburg, in December, but aren't really tempted to do it again...in December..

Any suggestions for other day trips from Freiburg im Breisgau? Our hotel provides a free local transport card, so other than the forays into France, most of our transport should be covered.

From Freiburg im Breisgau, we’ll head to Nuremburg for five nights. Other than a day trip to Nuremberg from Bamberg last year, we’re not all that familiar with the area. We’re considering day trips to Regensburg, Nordlingen and possibly a return to Bamberg. Any other suggestions?

From Nuremberg, we’ll head to Berchtesgaden for three nights to decompress from all the city activity before we fly back home. We’ve previously visited the salt mines and Konigssee. Eagles Nest isn't an option that time of year..Any suggestions for winter walks/activities in the vicinity?

From Berchtesgaden we’ll take the train to Munich for one night before our early morning flight back to the US. We’ll have just enough time to visit the Marienplatz Christmas Markets for one last gluhwein and have a nice meal.

Other than flights nothing is engraved in stone yet, so seeking suggestions on how to tweak things.

Fussgaenger

"We’re considering day trips to Regensburg, Nordlingen and possibly a return to Bamberg. Any other suggestions?"

See Nördlingen on the way to Nuremberg from Freiburg - it's pretty far from Nuremberg for a day trip. The trip to N'berg is a long one so maybe you stay overnight in Nördlingen?

Würzburg and Bayreuth may also interest you as day trips from N'berg.

If you've already been to Berchtesgaden and aren't sure what you'll do there, I'd try somewhere new for your 3 nights of peace and quiet. Garmisch and Mittenwald come to mind if you definitely want Alps.

Melnq8

Thanks Fussgaenger. We've been to Garmisch many times (last year in fact - not an inch of snow!) and have also been to Mittenwald a few times. Definitely food for thought though.

Have you been to Berchtesgaden recently? We were last there in 2001 and I get the distinct impression that it has changed a lot and is no longer the peaceful place it once was. Is that accurate?

I didn't realize Nordlingen was so far from Nuremberg.

I will take a look at Wurzburg and Bayreuth, thanks!

Ingo

Hi Mel,

Davos/Klosters: The only cable cars in operation will be Parsenn and Jakobshorn. The views from the top of Jakobshorn are nice, but nothing out of the ordinary for Graubünden. The hiking trail from the middle station Ischalp via Clavadeler Alp down to Islen and Davos-Frauenkirch (train station) is very nice, though. I am afraid the hotel and restaurant Sporthotel Clavadel opens mid December only, so you might be out of luck for food / drinks.

The best views are from the opposite side of the valley, the top of Weissfluh - you can take Parsenn funicular and the short cable car from Weissfluhjoch. No hiking trails up there, sorry.

Too bad that Schatzalp funicular and hotel are closed until Christmas - my favourites there. You'll find Davos to be a not very much appealing town, I am afraid, think Bauhaus style.

Chur is always worth a visit, travel time from Scuol under 2 hours. In case you're interested in wine tastings/visiting wineries, the region north of Chur in the Rhine valley is well known for excellent wine. Needs some research, though, for early December ...
http://www.graubuendenwein.ch/
map here: http://www.graubuendenwein.ch/cmsfil...anderkarte.pdf

Basel makes a nice day trip from Freiburg. If you haven't been yet, do it. (Yep, I know you're not much into cities ... so only if no outdoor activities in the Black Forest pop up )


Nördlingen: You could probably squeeze in a 3-hour visit enroute to Nürnberg - which is not much - and arrive at 7 pm in Nürnberg - which is pretty late. Your choice, of course.

With only three nights in Berchtesgaden you won't run out of things to do. They say they have about 120 km groomed winter hiking trails!
A list in German: http://www.berchtesgaden.de/de/wande...esgadener-land

In English: http://www.berchtesgadener-land.com/...er/snow-hiking

Predigtstuhl cable car in neighbouring Bad Reichenhall is open in December, hiking trails will be (partly) cleared/groomed and you can at least do the short hike up to the summit.

Adelaidean

Well, I'm only chiming in because I look forward to reading all about it (and your excellent photos)

sla019

What about Augsburg? It's one hours train ride from Nürnberg (by ICE, local transport is rather slow).

sassy_cat

Mel,
DH just got back from 3 nights in Regensburg. He was on business so only saw the cathedral but brought back a beautiful multi lingual guide with great photos.
We are downsizing and it loathes me to throw it in the recycling so email me it you want it mailed!

Melnq8

Ingo -

Best as I can tell, the Swiss Pass doesn't offer a fare reduction on either Jakobshorn or Parsenn/Weissfluhjoch (?). It does offer a reduction on Sertig, but I've not yet figured out if there any walking opportunities from Sertig (?)

I've read that Klosters is nicer than Davos?

Love the suggestion for Chur. Did someone say wine? I shall definitely research! We've not yet visited a Swiss (or Germany) winery.

I shall also look into the Predigtstuhl cable car, thanks heaps!

Adelaidean -I shall do my best, fingers crossed for good light!

sla019 - we've been to Augsburg at Christmas before - seem to recall it being a bit of a mob scene, but its certainly a possibility, thank you!

sassy_cat - I would love that! Where can I find your e-mail address?

Dukey1

In Nurnberg I would at least consider taking in the Dokumentationszentrum Reichsparteitagsgelände.

PalenQ

Have you looked at the Swiss Transfer Ticket- may be better for you than a Swiss Pass perhaps - it gives you a train/bus/boat ticket to anyplace in Switzerland from any airport or border point by the most direct/fastest route and then one back out of Switzerland - to any airport or border station - like Zurich to Scuol and Scuol to Basel

and along with it you can buy a half-off Half-Fare Card that gives you 50% off everything that moves transport-wise in Switzerland with very few exceptions - maybe covering those two things you say you found a Swiss Pass may not cover.

Seems that since your train/bus trips are short in one small region that could be the best deal - not sure but just in case you have not looked at it - not sure that one is sold in Switzerland - did not used to be but may be now - check www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.swisstravelsytem.com for details on it and Swiss trains in general.

I assume you have taken the Bernina Pass Railway

PalenQ

Any suggestions for other day trips from Freiburg im Breisgau?>

I really liked Baden-Baden but in winter maybe not so much - classic ancient casino where once the rich and royal and famous from all over Europe wagered - tours only before opening around noon though I think.

Melnq8

Dukey -

I'm not sure I have the stomach for the Nazi Party Rally Grounds, but I'm impressed with your German spelling.

Pal - you make a good point - yes we considered the Swiss Transfer Ticket and 1/2 Fare Card combo.

The per person (full price) second class fares for our planned Swiss transport is 397 CHF, not including any cable cars or gondolas (which might be a moot point as most will be closed when we're there).

The second class 8 day Swiss Travel Pass is 363 CHF, per person

The Swiss Transfer Ticket/Half Fare Card Combo, including the 50% we'd have to pay for our particular transport needs, comes to 352 CHF per person, a savings of 11 CHF per person over the Swiss Travel Pass.

Given that much of our plans involve short train rides that connect with tiny buses and/or strictly bus transport, we figured the 11 CHF a convenience fee of sorts - well worth not having to fiddle with buying tickets before every jaunt. It also allows us to be completely spontaneous should we want to add something on the fly.

As far as I can tell neither of the two cable cars that will be open near Davos/Klosters accept either the Swiss Travel Pass or the 1/2 Fare Card. Maybe Ingo can help with that one (?).

Yes, we've taken the Bernina Express. And with a Swiss Travel Pass we can do it again if the mood strikes

Melnq8

And yes, a spreadsheet was involved. The Swiss wouldn't have it any other way.

kja

Oh, I'm so jealous of your return to these magnificent areas, Melnq8! Please have some pizoccals for me, and maybe a glass of wine or two, too.

I really enjoyed Basel, but then I like both countrysides and cities.

PalenQ

I always say if the pass is not a whole lot more than alternatives go for the pass - you've done the maths and you yes may travel more than planned- there are so many neat places along the Bernina Railway to get off and walk or hike if you have not done so.

And a pass with 100% coverage means no going to ticket windows -just hop on the train.

Melnq8

kja -

Well, it's settled then, I shall have the full order of pizoccals. Strictly on your behalf...

Basel is so conveniently located that I might have to overlook my dislike of cities just this once.

Ingo

Mel,

Correct, no reductions with Swiss Pass on any cable cars in Davos/Klosters. Another reason to skip this area, on the other hand the prices are not *that* expensive. Round trip for Davos - Weissfluh summit is 43 CHF, Jakobshorn summit 39 CHF. Davos - Ischalp one way (and then hike via Clavadel down) is 17 CHF.

Maybe a return visit to the Upper Engadin would be in order? The Swiss Pass gives a 50% reduction on the Piz Corvatsch cable car - in case you haven't been yet and the weather co-operates. I even saw the Matterhorn from there once or twice

Yes, Klosters is nicer, more wooden Alpine style houses than in Davos there (a Walser settlement), but I am afraid it will very quiet in early December, with most hotels and restaurants closed. It also doesn't get as much sun as Davos, is at lower elevation in a narrower valley. The nice hiking trails into the surrounding valleys will most likely not be open/groomed as the mountain restaurants (Garfiun e.g.) will not be open yet. The only option would be a walk along the river from Klosters-Platz via Monbiel to Alp Garfiun - very nice, but rather in the shade in December, and the restaurant in Monbiel opens on 9 December - too late? http://www.hoehwald-klosters.ch/
Alp Garfiun will definitely be closed.

Melnq8

Grand idea Ingo! We missed Piz Corvatsch last time and I see it opens Nov 19. Excellent.

Yes, we'll be there too early for restaurant Monbiel - we're in Scuol from Dec 1-8. A good time for inexpensive apartment rentals but not-so-good for cable cars and gondolas.

I remember well the importance of going UP above the valleys that time of year - it can be very cold and dark in the valleys much of the day.

sassy_cat

Mel, I emailed you about moving to Perth a few years ago when DH was offered a job there. If you don't still have my email you could contact me via TripAdvisor messages (butterfly63) or do you have an email you can post here?

I only have 1 email address and I get more than enough spam without posting it here!

Sue81

Hi, If you go to Wurtzburg, I'd suggest a side trip over to Rothenburg, which is only about 45 to 50 minutes from WB. It would be lovely at Xmas season and there is a great Xmas store there Kathie Wolfharts. Great little village, check it out on line. Also a Kriskringle market in WB after Thanksgiving.