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Tuscany, ER and CT Itinerary Advice Needed

Tuscany, ER and CT Itinerary Advice Needed

Old Jul 11th, 2010, 12:16 PM
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Tuscany, ER and CT Itinerary Advice Needed

I am trying to put together our itinerary for a trip next May and could use some advice. Non-stop flights already booked.

5/13 NY to Milan
5/14 – 15 Parma
5/16 – 17 Bologna
5/18 – 20 Cinque Terre area
5/21 – 22 Lucca
5/23 - 27 Southern Tuscany
5/28 Pisa
5/29 Pisa to NY

We are planning to rent a car. We’ve done this before and like driving and having the freedom to stop wherever and explore. We hope to stop in Modena and possibly Reggio Emilia. We are considering staying in Bonassola near CT and using train, boat and hiking to see the area. From Lucca, we would like to stop in Volterra (which we missed on our last trip) on our way to southern Tuscany. We are considering staying near Buonconvento or S. Giovanni d’Asso as a base to explore the countryside. We also want to visit Deruta and Orvieta as a day trip.

Questions:

In looking at a road map, it seems it’s easier to get to CT from Parma by car rather than Bologna. Should we go to Bologna first, perhaps by train, and pick up a car there before heading to Parma? It does seem like it would take a while to take the shuttle to the train and make a connection to Bologna. Would you drive and where would you go first?

Has anyone seen or stayed at the Hotel Belvedere in Bonassola?

Would you give up one night in Buonconvento or nearby to spend one night in the countryside of Maremma before heading to Pisa for the last night?

Out of curiosity, how far have you driven for dinner in Tuscany? On our last trip, we were in Chianti and stayed near some wonderful restaurants, but did drive almost 30 minutes one night. It was worth it.
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Old Jul 11th, 2010, 01:57 PM
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I don't have problems with one nighters at all, and I love the Maremma, so yes, I would go there. I also love the area around Buonconvento/S.Giovanni d'Asso as well and I think it is a great choice for a southern Tuscan stay. that said, have you checked how a long the drive is to Deruta and Orvieto from Buonconvento? Maybe it is shorter than I think, but if the majority is on country roads, it makes for slower going.

Do you have an interest in Milan? I quite like the city, but if you are not keen on it, you could head straight to Parma or Bologna by train. (Remember you won't even be able to get into a hotel room until noon at the earliest in Milan. Were it me, I would go there first, probably take a day trip to Ravenna from Bologna, pick up a car to stay in the countryside around Modena/Parma/Reggio'nell Emilia, and then take the car to Bonassola. (While around Parma, you might love seeing Torrechiara, about 15 miles outside of Parma, just don't go on a Monday, when it is closed.)

I'm not a fan of Lucca, so I'll skip commenting -- except to say with a car, I would try to get up into the Garfagnana for a drive one day. Actually, I will comment: I'd skip Lucca for the Maremma! (Probably somewhere around Magliano in Toscana, and I'd see Orvieto as a day trip from there).

If you haven't picked a place to stay in Pisa, I recently thought about staying in Relais Sassetti for a night before flying out of Pisa airport -- then I flew out of a different airport. If you think It looks appealing, make sure to check before booking whether there is parking nearby and if the b&b is in a ZTL zone.

http://www.relaissassetti.it/

Looks to me like you have the makings of a delicious trip.
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Old Jul 11th, 2010, 01:59 PM
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Sorry -- my post wasn't clear I'm sure.

If you are not keen on Milan, I suggest heading directly to Bologna by train after arriving in Italy. If all you want from Milan is a look at the Duomo and the Last Supper, you can do that by storing your luggage in the Milan train station, seeing the sights, and then taking the 90 minute ride to Bologna if you have that kind of stamina. (I wouldn't, but I point out the possibility for heartier souls.)
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Old Jul 11th, 2010, 05:13 PM
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I like it--have fun !
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Old Jul 11th, 2010, 06:40 PM
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The distance from Buonconvento to Orvieto is approximately 50 miles, the same as Magliano to Orvieto. Approx 23 miles from Lucca to Garfagnana.

So, am I right that it's not so easy to get to Bonassola from Bologna? Parma is the better route?

The thought of spending a few hours in Milan after an overnight flight is not too appealing.

I was thinking of staying closer to Massa Marittima if spending one night in the area. There's a slow travel kind of place called Pieve di Caminino www.caminino.com It looks interesting. Or I could be happy staying at Buonconvento another night.
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Old Jul 12th, 2010, 02:03 AM
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You are right that the better route to Bonassola is from Parma, not Bologna. If you need lunch or a coffee en route from Parma to Bonassola, the tiny town of Pontremoli is wonderful.

If you end up choosing to go that place near Massa Marittima, a visit to the beautiful Abbey of San Galgano might not be much out of your way. Could wait until your are in Tuscany to make up your mind?

I'm not clear as to what conclusion you've drawn about your arrival, but if you end up sleeping in Milan instead of heading straight to Bologna, you might consider Antica Locanda Leonardo. It books up fast. Check Tripadvisor reviews.

http://www.anticalocandaleonardo.com/en/index.htm

Also, another Fodor's poster recently raved about his stay near Pisa in the town of Montopoli, which I'd never heard of, and which looks utterly charming. It looks like maybe a 30-40 minute drive to Pisa airport. He loved this hotel.

http://www.quattrogigli.it/index.htm

One final thought on your itinerary is that you could extend your stay in Bonassola a night and see Lucca as a day trip from there, and have more time to spend in other places, depending on your interests. But many other people love Lucca, and you may have special reasons for wanting to spend time there.

And some off the beaten track places within en route to or around Lucca that have charm, interesting sights and good food are Castelnuovo Magra, Pistoia and Pescia.

Have a great trip!
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Old Jul 12th, 2010, 04:02 AM
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Thanks zeppole. We won't spend time in Milan at all on this trip. The itinerary is based on places we've never been. So, there are no special reasons for visiting Lucca - we just haven't been there before. I know a lot of people really like it. A day or two should work well.

Is the quickest/easiest way to get from Malpensa to the train station by shuttle? Is this reserved ahead? Should we book train tix for Bologna online in advance? (I remember the Trenitalia website being a nightmare!)
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Old Jul 12th, 2010, 06:15 AM
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Centralparkgirl, well, the Maremma IS southern Tuscany par excellence, so if you want to get an overview of southern Tuscany, you can hardly leave out the Maremma. But I think it depends on what you want to see around Val d'Orcia. There's so much to see there, you could easily spend an entire week there, that's why it's hard to advise you without knowing more precisely what you want to visit. For example, much as I like Massa Marittima, I wouldn't recommend to go there as long as you haven't seen Monte Oliveto Maggiore. Or Chiusi. Or Sant'Antimo. And particularly if you're planning on seeing Orvieto from there, time might be scarce - if you spend one night in the Maremma, your Val d'Orcia (plus Orvieto) time shrinks to just three days maximum. OTOH again, without the Pitigliano-Sovana-Sorano area, which is part of the Maremma as well, no southern Tuscany trip would be complete, IMO.

As far as Lucca, zeppole, I suggest we agree on one standard text that the first of us posts whenever Lucca is in question, so we don't need to type the same stories in endless variations... along the lines of: zeppole is not a fan of Lucca (...please fill in your reasons...), franco is a Lucca convert, and having considered Lucca Tuscany's most boring town for many years, he now thinks it has grown into one of the nicest places there, lively and elegant, but not touristy, and the sights have always been great anyway (the Romanesque church facades, the piazza built into the ancient Roman theater, the medieval tower house "Torre Guinigi" that's Lucca's landmark now, the city walls...). zeppole doesn't like Lucca's cuisine much and thinks it's on the heavy side (...please fill in your further reasons...), franco thinks it's one of Tuscany's most interesting (the mountain fare from Garfagnana and Lunigiana is easily available in Lucca), and particularly recommends two restaurants, Mecenate and Giulio in Pelleria.

I, too, would do Bologna before Parma if heading to the Cinque Terre afterwards; and I would go by car from start, not just because I'm always going by car but in particular because there's no more reason to have the car near the Cinque Terre than in Bologna - so if you want it there, you'll also want it in Bologna. Driving Milano-Bologna-Parma is not too much hassle, though north Italian autostrade certainly get a lot of traffic.

Deruta is only for pottery buffs; the pottery is (a considerable part of it, at least) fine, the village is underwhelming.
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Old Jul 12th, 2010, 06:36 AM
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Centralparkgirl,

Yes, there is an airport bus directly to Milan's Central station, no need to reserve ahead. The buses are very frequent, the trip takes an hour. I don't think you need to book train tickets in advance unless you are traveling to Bologna on May 1.


franco (and centralparkgirl!),

To take simple matters first, regarding a car, centralparkgirl is going to Bonassola in May, so I think she might as well drive there, since getting to Bonassola from Parma is easiest by car. There will be parking in Bonassola and I assume she knows to leave her car parked while she visits le Cinque Terre.

HOWEVER, you can save a few bucks Centralparkgirl by dumping the car in La Spezia (or Rapallo) and using the train until you are ready to leave Lucca (pick up another car in Pisa, I guess).

I'm agnostic about when to get the car -- although I think you might as well just take the train to Bologna from Milan, since you'll be jet lagged.

Now -- for Lucca --

I'm unredeemed because having spent a week in Lucca within the past 5 years I still find it Tuscany's most boring town, although it does have a wealth of small architectural detail (which I found myself studying extensively for lack of anything better to do.) Plus it is muggy! It is true it is tony, but rather in the way that Santa Barbara is, or other weekend restaurant destinations are in the US. The tourism is upscale, but it's still touristy to me. It is possible it wins Tuscany's culinary prize because I don't like Tuscan food at its core (I like it on the fringes -- in the Lunigiana and the Maremma in particular).

But Centralparkgirl seems ready to give it a whirl on her own, and if she's bored, there is lots right outside the walls very easily reached by train or car.
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Old Jul 12th, 2010, 06:51 AM
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Centralparkgirl, if you stay in/near Buonconvento we had a lovely dinner at a small restaurant right in town. If you are interested I can email you a copy of that portion of my trip report.
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Old Jul 12th, 2010, 06:55 AM
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I'm interested in knowing which restaurant! No secrets!

I also ate well in Buonconvento, but I can't remember the name of the restaurant. I do remember walking through town on a Sunday during lunch and all the restaurants were filled with happy families eating at big tables.)

I have a lot of affection for Buonconvento, and would like to return to see its museums.
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Old Jul 12th, 2010, 07:07 AM
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Is Buonconvento the name of a town or agriturismo?
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Old Jul 12th, 2010, 07:10 AM
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A town:

http://www.borghitalia.it/html/borgo...dice_borgo=142

It's a flat town along a river in an area most beloved for its scenic hilltowns, so very few people stay there unless they are on walking tours. But it is close to the abbey of Monte Oliveto Maggiore, and can be a nice place to have lunch. Very easy parking. Nice flat town when you are tired of climbing hills.
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Old Jul 12th, 2010, 07:16 AM
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PS: I should add that while only a few people stay inside the town of Buonconvento, the beautiful hills right around Buonconvento have wonderful agriturismi that make for a great farm stay with a car.
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Old Jul 12th, 2010, 12:48 PM
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I had been looking at some of those this morning and they are beautiful! I love the hilly part of any countryside and the towns on top of them!
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Old Jul 12th, 2010, 06:58 PM
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Thank you all for the candor and passion with which you write. As I wrote in another thread, even though I've been to Italy at least six times, I suddenly feel like I've seen next to nothing. I have never been to southern Tuscany and it's absolutely deliberate that it's at the end of the trip. I want to savor it, relax in it and explore what I can in the time I have. I may not get into every church, but I want to walk through villages, have leisurely lunches, and just inhale it. Of course, I don't want to miss those special sights - abbeys, wineries, churches, whatever. I would like to see Orvieto, but I could put that on hold for another trip rather than include it and short change myself in Tuscany - especially after Franco's list. The trips of my youth covered too much territory and I don't want to travel that way any more. I'm already torn that two days in each of Parma and Bologna may not be enough.

About the car - I like having a car even if it will sit in Bonassola for a few days - zeppole, yes, that's the plan. Keeping train travel to a minimum is a priority for me because of low back problems. A flare up from schlepping luggage could make me miserable for days.

But I am considering the train from Milan to Bologna. There's one that is 1 hr 5 min which is appealing after the long overseas flight. That would be the only train (other than within CT without luggage) on this trip.

ekc - you can email me at [email protected], but I think everyone would want to read about the restaurant experiences.

Franco, thanks for the restaurant suggestions. What dishes in particular do you like in Lucca and at those restaurants?

On my way from Lucca to Buonconvento, after the stop in Volterra, I hope to have lunch at La Bottega del Trenta in Villa a Sestra. Anyone eat here?

Near Buonconvento, I'm considering staying at Podere Salicotto or La Ripolina. Zeppole thanks for that great link.

http://www.poderesalicotto.com/en/index_en.htm

Near S.Giovanni d'Asso, I'm thinking of La Locanda del Castello.

Anyone stay at one of these? Or have other suggestions?
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Old Jul 13th, 2010, 02:50 AM
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My suggestion is that you take me with you!

This sounds like a wonderful trip and I congratulate you for getting off the well-trodden path for a bit. I will be most eager to read the report!
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Old Jul 13th, 2010, 03:16 AM
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You wrote

>>though I've been to Italy at least six times, I suddenly feel like I've seen next to nothing.
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Old Jul 13th, 2010, 04:04 AM
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ek and Centralparkgirl, well you could actually take the same plane - NYC Fodorites traveling to Italy together!

As far as dishes at those Lucca restaurants, Giulio in Pelleria is doing an absolutely memorable panzanella, the best I had anywhere; plus some really interesting offal dishes (unfortunately, I don't write dining notes like ek does, so don't remember more precisely). As far as Mecenate, I suggest to sample testaroli there, a rare (and extremely difficult to prepare) type of pasta from the Lunigiana mountains, made from either buckwheat or whole wheat flour and first baked in terracotta pan (without any fat - go figure how easy it is to scratch those pancakes from the bottom of the pan!), then cut into large strips and boiled; served with pesto. And of course, Lucca is farro country, and you have to eat farro one place or the other; Mecenate is doing farro pancakes with stinging nettles, for example. And I had a wonderful rabbit there!

Now for a difficult question: one of Italy's best restaurants in my experience is in southern Tuscany; in the middle of nowhere, no chance to combine that with any sightseeing; and for dinner, they're open on Saturdays only, otherwise just for lunch. If you would consider using some of your precious time for such a (time-consuming!) excursion, I'm ready to give one of my best-kept secrets away. Otherwise, I'd rather keep silent cause if you think you don't have time or energy for that, you'd only regret it if I go on with my description.
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Old Jul 13th, 2010, 04:09 AM
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I think this is terrible that you all won't share your food! This is italy!
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