noe847

I have traveled quite a bit in Europe (from the US) - much of it with help from the Forums! - but will be taking my first trip to Italy in October. I know the Italy Fodorites are active and knowledgeable, so I look forward to your advice.

We will have 19 full days in Italy, counting our landing day but not counting our departure day. I have had a tough time getting a sense of this trip, but I think I have the rough itinerary figured out. I apologize for the length here, but I'm trying to provide enough information to give you a picture.

My husband is a stone carver by avocation and is scheduled to take a 2 week marble carving workshop in Pietrasanta (not too far from Carrara) on the coast in the northwestern part of Tuscany. The class runs from M-F two weeks in a row, with the weekend in between free. He knows the teacher from other classes in the US and also the fellow students. For 2 weeks our accommodations will be a shared hilltop villa somewhere near Massa, with the arrangements having been made by others members of the class.

Additionally my husband will be bringing a few of his chisels and other hand tools in his checked luggage, so it won't be the lightest we've ever traveled, although we will keep our packing fairly minimal.

We fly from ATL on Delta in and out of the Rome airport. As much as it kills me, we are not planning to go into Rome at all on this trip. (We will be back! That's how I'm consoling myself)

Here's the outline of our travel plan:

Thursday, Oct 16: land in Rome 7:30 am; travel straight to Florence - I have been thinking we'd travel by train, and rent a car when leaving Florence (I have already researched how to do this). Our alternative is to rent a car at the Rome airport and drive. This would raise questions of finding a hotel with parking and figuring out the ZTL regulations for Florence (and other Italian cities we might visit), as they seem likely to conflict with our usual preference to stay in historic city-centers. Also, why have a car for 3 days when we wouldn't use it? On the other hand, there are those heavy chisels in the suitcase, and wrangling them on public transportation isn't a ton of fun.

Thursday, Oct 16 - Sunday, Oct 19: three nights in Florence - adjust to time zone and get a taste of the city. Focus on sculpture.

Sunday, Oct 19: head to Massa-area villa. (our rental is from Oct 18 - Nov 1)

Friday, Oct 24 - Sunday, Oct 26: hear to Bologna for weekend, stay 2 mights (one full day, Saturday in the city, but also most of Sunday) Focus on St. Dominic and St. Catherine. We can travel very light, just a weekend bag.

Sunday Oct 26: back to the Massa villa until Friday, Oct 31

Friday, Oct 31 - Monday, Nov 3: 3 nights in Assisi, driving. Focus on St. Francis and St. Clare.

Monday, Nov 3: drive to Rome airport area, turn in car, stay in an airport hotel for a Tuesday, Nov 4 morning flight

Our usual style of European travel is to take trains from place to place, stay in the old-town/center of cities and towns, and walk the sights when we can. On this trip, however, a rental car keeps seeming like a good idea, and that appears likely to change our touring habits. Is it still possible for us to stay in the city centers in Florence, Bologna, and Assisi, and what about that pesky car and the ZTL? I guess our alternative is to stay somewhat further out of the centers and take public transportation to the sights in the historic centers. If you happen to have any lodging recommendations, we are trying to stay under 250Euros/night.

In addition to the itinerary sketched above which my husband and I will cover together, I will have from Monday to Friday each of the two stone carving weeks to explore on my own while my husband is in class. My plan is to explore places that are fairly close to Mass. I will either drive or figure out how to travel from the villa to the local train and/or bus station(s). I know that both Massa and Carrara have train stations (on the Genoa to Pisa line I think) but don't know yet how to get there from the villa. Pisa, Lucca, and Florence (things we weren't able to cover on our 3 nights there) are cities that come to mind. I'd welcome your suggestions of northwestern Tuscan towns and villages that are within striking distance for solo day trips. My strongest interests are old churches, old buildings, and old art.

Can you tell that I'm a little stumped? I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!
- Nancyo

kybourbon

I can't see picking up a car until you depart Florence. No point in risking a ZTL ticket or paying 30-40€ per day to park your rental car. You might need to pick up at the Florence airport since it will be a Sunday. There's a shuttle bus to the airport (6€) or taxi is a set fee 20€ (might be a few euro higher on Sunday).

As for hauling chisels, if the luggage has wheels, I don't see the trains as a problem except for getting it up and down the stairs on the trains. If you take the Leonardo Express (14€) from FCO into Rome Termini, board right behind the engineer as there are no steps there.

Bologna has ZTL so you need to check the zones and where you can stay with a car. Ditto Assisi (and Pisa, Lucca). You would need to check parking options with places you might stay.

I'm really not sure a car is all that necessary. Depends on where the villa is in Massa and whether there is public transport.

I would spend the last night in Rome (dump the car before Rome) unless you have a very early flight.

It might make more sense to start in Assisi. There is a bus from FCO. You might think two nights in Assisi is enough also.

RonZ

Arriving at FCO, get to the Tibertina station and buy tickets for Firenze for the 1.5 hour train trip. If the ticket office is crowded, the machines accept an ATM card with a 4 digit pin.

Orvieto is a popular car dump spot on the way to Rome.

Great Bologna hotel: the Albergo Centrale.

Driving in cities I would ask the hotels how to proceed.

RonZ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massa_C...ailway_station

Bologna under 3 hours with 2 changes.

asps

Renting in central Florence is not a problem as you a risking a ZTL ticket if you enter the zone without authorization, not if you are exiting. On a Sunday access and movement within ZTL are free.

Assisi and Bologna are not so close as in any case you have to go back to Florence - consider three hours travel time to Bologna, four to Assisi (a little more by train).

Pietrasanta itself is a nice if tiny town. Once you get to to a train station you have relatively easy access to Lucca, Pisa, Cinque Terre. Also Florence is not so distant. Genoa could be an option. I would try to check train times to Parma by train as it could be long but not impossible. Volterra can be done by car.

dreamon

The area north east of Lucca in the Garfagnana is lovely and worth exploring. There are limited buses and trains through the area.

sandralist

For your trip to Bologna I highly recommend that you add to your "focus" the Museo Civico Medievale with its exceptional carved tombs. In addition, although they are terra-cotta, the statues of the church of Santa Mara della Grazie are very much worth seeing. The church is usually only open in the mornings and on Sundays you might have to work around Mass times. I would also recommend seeing the richly carved anatomical theater even though the carving is in wood.

I would check into whether train times to Bologna work for you rather than taking a car. On the weekend you should be able to get a good deal on train tickets, including 2-for-1 deals. October is often a busy time for trade fairs in Bologna and finding an attractively priced hotel room can be a challenge. If you end up taking a car, try the Amegila.

For places to visit near where you'll be staying, you might want to research the many museums and churches in Pisa and plan on visiting more than once. Pistoia is absolutely worth your while. I don't know how easy it is to get from Pietrasanta to Castelnuova di Magra but it would be worth the effort given your interests. The city of La Spezia has a small but interesting private art collection museum, the Museo Civico Amadeo Lia. If you go as far a le Cinque Terre, then the small town of Levanto has a lovely 9th c. church (which is something of a hike from the train station so you might want a taxi if it's not a nice day).

Other than that your best investment in the Blue Guide to Tuscany which will tell you what might be of artistic interest in Forte die Marmi, Camaiore, Viareggio, etc

sandralist

One more thought: Have you checked with your airline about whether the hand chisels could be carried aboard as special luggage rather than checked, similar to a violin? I would try to do that rather than run the risk of the bag getting lost.

sandralist

And one more PS: I think you definitely want a car from Massa to Assisi but stay in an agriturismo near Assisi rather than Assisi itself. That way you can drive right up to the door and unload at your lodgings, and you can use the car to visit Assisi and other places since you have 3 nights there. For anyone interested in painting then the National Gallery of Umbrian Art in Perugia is extraordinarily rewarding but the smaller hill towns of Umbria are also filled with spectacular art. The stone facade of the cathedral of Orvieto is richly richly carved and one of the great sights of Italy. Consider dropping off your car there and making time to see the church. (It has great frescoes inside.)

As for getting the chisels to Massa, I would rely more on taxis than a car rental from Rome to Florence. Have you checked how far the villa is from the train station in Massa? You might want to have a car there. (By the way both Massa and Carrara have wonderful churches.)

sandralist

Sorry if it wasn't clear: I am suggesting fly to Rome, taxi to train station, train to Florence, taxi to hotel. Maybe taxi to Florence airport to pick up car rental for trip to Massa.

bvlenci

I would suggest going to Bologna by train, rather than with the car, since you'll be traveling light and returning to Massa afterwards.

I suppose you realize that your itinerary has you in Assisi for All Saints Day, a big religious holiday (and national holiday) in Italy. That means that both Saturday and Sunday, the basilicas will have masses on the "festive" schedule, which limits the opportunities for touristic visits to these and other churches. You can assume that pretty near the entire morning will be taken up with masses. (The lower basilica of St. Francis has masses pretty much all morning even on weekdays.)

As Sandra says, trade fairs in Bologna limit the availability of hotel rooms, and prices are sometimes double or even triple the usual prices. You might want to get your hotel room there first, and search for hotels on both weekends to see if there is a big difference in prices. Then you could possibly switch your weekends if the second weekend is better, unless you especially wanted to be in Assisi for All Saints. If you go to Bologna for the second weekend, you could perhaps drop your car at Bologna airport, as having a car in Bologna, or even in the immediate vicinity of Bologna, is a royal pain. There is a shuttle bus from the airport into central Bologna.

noe847

Thanks for all of the replies - you folks are the best! My head is swimming with so many thoughtful suggestions: possibly changing the weekends of the cities we are visiting, when and where to rent the car, and so many great options for my solo exploring. I'm hoping to come back and follow up individual suggestions later in the day.

TDudette

How exciting for you!

I’d take the train to Florence and rent the car from there. OTOH, in another trip report, someone says there is underground parking at the train station in Florence. DH and I traveled by train/bus from Pisa to Livorno, Cinque Terre and San Gimingnano. From Florence, it’s easy to train/bus to Siena and Lucca.

For Bologna, San Luca has incredible portico (http://www.travelettes.net/walking-t...ld-in-bologna/ ) if you have time.

You are very close to Spoleto and Spello when you are in Assisi. DH and I found more to do in Spoleto than Assisi and Spello. Orvieto’s duomo is astoundingly pretty, IMO.

Sandra’s suggestion for special dispensation of your husband’s tools is a great one.

Looking forward to your trip report!

Shar

great suggestions here. Love this forum. I cannot imagine driving after a flight from US especially in a country that you are not familiar driving in. Train it and taxi it when possible especially at the beginning after your flight.

bvlenci

There is underground parking at Santa Maria Novella station in Florence, but to get there you have to stay on the one route that you can take to avoid ZTLs. Once wrong turn, and you're looking at a big fine that will follow you home, several months later, to which the rental agency will add a hefty fee (charged to your credit card) for helping the police track you down.

noe847

Here's a quick update:

Thanks to all of your informative replies I've spent much of my free time this week mulling, researching, debating, and ultimately, making some decisions, with some still to be made.

You guys have convinced us that upon arrival at FCO we should use the train/train/taxi for travel to Florence. We'll stay in a city center hotel and rent a car at the airport when leaving Florence.

After much rental car gnashing of teeth, we've come to think that on balance it will be helpful to have the car available for the rest of the trip. However I won't drive into any Italian city if I can avoid it!

Similarly, your feedback has us thinking that driving into Bologna is the last thing we want to do so we're planning to take the train (1 or 2 short connections from Massa.) My husband's class schedule/logistics are an unknown for now so we can't reserve the train tickets in advance. I hope the cost on the day is somewhat reasonable. Although I had originally reserved the Aemilia Hotel (which has parking and I believe is outside the ZTL) when I thought we might be driving there, now that we're taking the train we'll switch to a center-city hotel (I'm finding acceptable rates, thankfully.)

A couple of you mentioned switching around the order of the cities that we will visit on the 3 weekends that we will be in Italy, but after playing around with the itinerary I think we'll stick with the original order. Florence is likely to be filled with museum visits. The first weekend gives us mid-day Thursday to mid-day Sunday in the city. Jet lag will factor in, but we're looking forward to having some non-weekend time in the city.

The last weekend gives us 2 full days and part of a Monday, which wouldn't work as well for Florence because of Monday museum closures there. Being a holy day/holiday weekend (thanks for the reminder bvlenci), Assisi makes the most sense for that weekend for us. We're visiting Assisi as a quasi-mini-pilgrimage and we'll want to attend Mass anyway. It sounds like there will be plenty of opportunity! I think we'll have enough time for the sights of Assisi, but If the holy day slows us down we can stay longer on the Monday to catch anything we missed. And if we've seen everything we care to see, we can leave town earlier on Monday and have more time to explore other Umbrian sights before dropping our car at the airport in the evening. I really do want to see the National Gallery in Perugia, so we might go there on Saturday or Sunday since it is closed on Mondays.

I am so excited about all the thoughtful suggestions for my solo days! I will be spoiled for choice for the 10 days! I'm hoping to take the train as much as possible but I'm sure I'll drive if I'm headed to a smaller town or farther afield. The Blue Guide is on order and I will eagerly dive into the particulars of each locale. My guess is that I'll decide where to go each day depending on weather and mood, so I'm glad to have so many possibilities. Truly, the list of sites you all recommended is so cool!

Finally, I appreciate the suggestion about the hand chisels, and we will check with Delta but I'm not going to hold my breath. Prior experience has show us that the TSA takes a dim view of bringing tools in carry on luggage. Our daughter was a Scottish snare drummer and needed a wrench for adjusting her drum and was never permitted to carry it on with her. My husband is planning to bring the minimum of his own tools and isn't too worried about checking them. He can borrow or purchase tools there if need be. Luckily, he is planning to ship the tools home, along with his (hopefully completed!) marble piece, at the end of the two weeks of class. So the only time he will be carting them around is at the front end of the trip.

Rest assured there will be a trip report when we return, as well as a ton of photo links!

sandralist

Sounds great. I realize that in an earlier post I misspelled the name of a church in Bologna that is very worthwhile: It is Santa Maria della Vita (in the via Claveture).

Also, while I mentioned the small art museum in La Spezia I also remembered the archeological museum there which you might find exceptionally interesting. In addition to having a number of Roman finds and tombs dating back to when the now-disappeared Roman port of "Luni" was the main port for shipping Carrara marble down to Rome, the tiny museum in La Spezia also has one of the world's better collections of prehistoric carved stone stele and menhirs found near le Cinque Terre:

http://www.archart.it/italia/Liguria...ana/index.html

http://museodelcastello.spezianet.it

noe847

Wow, thanks, sandralist. Now my husband and I are plotting to get to La Spezia to see the archeological museum!

sandralist

You should definitely call or e-mail before going to make sure everything in the museum is open the day you plan to go. That is just general good practice for all very small museums in Italy to avoid disappointments. Website information can't be trusted day to day. You can easily take the train to La Spezia but you can also drive. Parking will be easier if you avoid going on a sunny weekend if at all possible. If you decide to drive then you might also want to use the car to visit Sarzana or Castelnuovo Magra. If you are on the train then you can visit le Cinque Terre (also more crowded on weekends).

noe847

I've already checked the train schedule from Massa to La Spezia (and on to the Cinque Terre). Thanks for the driving information, we could very easily be taking the car if we go together. Great tip about checking ahead to see if the museum is open, thanks.