Frankfurt is a, primarily, a modern city focused on finance and industry (sorry Mainhatten Girl) although it does have some very good museums. Of your prospects, it is the one I think most people would say should be dropped (sorry Mainhatten Girl). Since you are already visiting the 2 most interesting large German cities, Berlin and Munich, and you want to see Stuttgart, another large one, for Porsche, why not consider something smaller. Nuremberg is a mid size city with a different feel from either Berlin or Munich and it makes a good base for some other cities in the area, like Bamberg, Wurzburg (special art major alert - looks up The Residenz in Wurzburg), and Bayreuth (Hello Wagner!).

I think most people who enjoy Berlin would tell you that you can fill more than 6 days, especially if you love art and history and perhaps take a day trip to Dresden, or Potsdam. Munich does not have quite as many attractions for an art lover, but it is superb base for visiting the Bavarian Alps, or even Salzburg and is worth 6 days for those day trip opportunities. I would probably allot just 2 days to Stuttgart unless you discover much more than the Porsche operations that you want to see. That would leave you with 3 days for Nuremberg or, in order;

Berlin 6
Nuremberg 3
Stuttgart 2
Munich 6

If the thought of some more small town or rural Germany starts to appeal to you, you could consider dropping Berlin and Munich down to 5 days each, or 5 and 4, respectively and adding in one more stop with the 2/3 extra days. Thus, instead of doing day trips, you could experience another area of Germany for a little longer.

I don't know whether you are locked into leaving from Munich, but if you're not, I'd suggest 5 days in Berlin, 5 in Munich, and the remainder in one of the great art cities in that part of the country, namely, Vienna. Then fly out of Vienna.

another possibility if art scene is at the top of your list : amsterdam for flemisch art - reijksmuseum, van gogh museum, and short side trip to delft for more rembrandts and vermeers. if your itinerary is not set in stone yet, you can perhaps fly into AMS before Berlin, then another 2 nights in Stuttgard then on to Munich.

How about a side trip to Prague on the way to Munich to visit the Alphonse Mucha museum, It is small, but unique and sure to be of interest to an art major. Prague itself is a living work of art.

forgot to add the hague, another short side trip from amsterdam has some worthwhile museums.

Do you enjoy outdoor activities? If so, a fun day trip from Berlin (where I lived for 3 years) is to go kayaking in the Spreewald. Take the train from Berlin to Luebbenau and then rent a kayak from Bootsverleih Richter (Richter's Boat Rentals). This will give you an opportunity to see a small, but lovely part of Germany.

http://www.bootsverleih-richter.de/

I'll agree that you could easily spend more than 6 days in Berlin visiting its wealth of museums. Just Museum Island itself could take up all six of your days. Then there's the Gemaldegalerie. If you're interested in architecture, there's also the Bauhaus.

A side trip to Potsdam is a possibility.

Also second the suggestion of visiting Dresden. Right near the Dresden Opera House is the Gemaldegalerie Alte Meister. You also don't want to miss the Green Vault in Dresden.


You could also spend 6 days in Munich. There's a group of museums in the Kunstareal, including my favorite, the Alte Pinokothek. You definitely also want to go to the Munich Residenz as well as take a day with good weather to wander around Nymphenburg Palace.

There are also a couple of specialized museums in Munich. I've met any number of young people who go to the BMW Museum (never been myself) as well as the Beer and Octoberfest Museum.

Munich is also great for a walking tour of the center of the city. The difference between Munich and Berlin, as one guide explained, is that the two cities rebuilt differently after the heavy bombing each city suffered during WWII. Berlin rebuilt with new, modern architecture; Munich, OTOH, either rebuilt behind old facades or rebuilt entirely new buildings but in the style of the older buildings. That's why Munich is more of a "historical" city.

There's only so much you can absorb from the incredible wealth of these museums. It's a good suggestion to spend some time/days hiking or doing something different than visiting museums.

I love Vienna, but you cannot do three cities' museums in 17 days - not Berlin, Munich AND Vienna; so you'll have to choose between Munich and Vienna. Definitely skip Frankfurt on this trip.

Frankfurt has a multitude of wonderful museums, so if that's an interest, I WOULDN'T skip it! The Dom and Roemer (square) make a lively juxtaposition of old and new!

Are you going by train between those five main cities you mention - and IME cars are rather useless for touring once in a city so trains are a great way to go between far-removed cities - often going up to nearly 190 mph on some ICE's!

and if so strongly look at a Germany Railpass that lets you hop on and off virtually any train anytime in Germany - fully flexible tickets like that often cost a ton - even the 29 or 39 euro discounted online tickets that must be booked weeks in advance and which are train-specific and cannot be changed may be more expensive than a 4- or 5-day German Twin Railpass. (Twin for two folks traveling together on one pass - cheaper than two solo passes)

For lots of great info on German trains and passes I always spotlight these IMO Uber fantastic sites - www.bahn.de - the official German Railways site with fares and schedules and such info as what tram or bus to take from your hotel to the nearest train station for your destination - and http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id9.html and www.seat61.com and www.ricksteves.com.

and you and your daughter could hop overnight trains between places like Berlin and Munich of Frankfurt and Berlin, last I knew - save on the cost of a hotel and travel time - could get a private double, some even with private WC/douche in room on the ICN - InterCityNightliner trains that are amongst the finest in Europe, for night trains, out of literally hundreds I have taken!

Staying in Berlin, you should look to travel to Liepzig and Dresden. Rebuilt over the last few years they are seriously pretty and worth the train trip.

Stuttgart don't forget the Mercedes factory tour.

Consider visiting Bamburg...beautiful city...untouched by the war. Great beer too!

I second (third? fourth?) the recommendation for Bamberg. It is a wonderful town. And if you are travelling between Berlin and Munich, the train stops there anyway

The whole Franconian region is great, so you could stay in one town and easily visit others by train.

AJ-
I keep waiting for someone to weigh in with several other choices that would allow you to use even more points and really take in the art scene. I've used points (5 nights at a crack for 4 nights worth of points) in all of these cities.

If you are locked in to flying into Berlin and back from Munchen, I would recommend Berlin 5 nights, taking the train from Berlin to Paris and staying 5 nights, then on to Munchen via train for the last 5 nights. It looks like (very far in) advance purchase 2nd class tickets are about 70 E per person for an 8 hour trip on ICE trains from Berlin to Paris with a change in Mannheim. Paris to Munchen is even better - it is a 6 hour trip at 40 E per person in 2nd class with a change in Stuttgart from a TGV train to an ICE train. It will actually cost more because reservations are required on all of these trains in and out of Paris. The last time I used similar trains (Frankfurt/Paris/Munchen) the reservation was around 40 E per person in 1st.

If you are not locked into Berlin and/or Munchen, and you really want to focus on the art scene, I would suggest flying into Berlin or Amsterdam or London for 5 days, then to Paris for 5 days, then to Rome for 5 days returning from Rome. I believe you will get the most bang for your buck as far as art goes from Paris and Rome with the other 3 cities a step below.

Now before everyone jumps on my case, these suggestions are my personal opinion. And although Paris is my favorite city for art and city sightseeing, Munchen is my favorite city
for Gemuchlichkeit (did I spell that right Ira?) and southern Germany (except for wintertime) is my favorite part of the world in which to wander about...

Good luck and have a wonderful trip with your daughter- If my family experience is normal, the probability is quite high that her next trip to Europe will not be alone with you...

Thanks for all the great suggestions! I'm going to plan it all out over the weekend. The day trips are a great idea that escaped me. Andrew

Just another word on the art scene..

While all major cities in Germany feature a good list of top tier (art) museums, the gallery scene, esp. that focused on contemporary artists is very much focused on Berlin and Cologne.

You won't need much help on Berlin as there will be more museums and galleries than you can see in a week. Check visitberlin.com before you leave to see which special exhibitions are in town when you will get there.
Cologne also has Museum Ludwig, definetely a top 5 museum for art lovers in an otherwise (for most) less than overwhelming city.

Munich got the top tier art museums (from Greek to old masters to contemporary) of the Pinakotheken and nearby and the often exciting exhibitions at Haus der Kunst - but is provincial with regard to galleries.

For the rest including side trips you already got lots of great options to choose from.

One can only visit so many museums until you get art-museumed-out. Even an art lover. I'd spend your in-between time in a pretty town like Bamberg or enjoy a little countryside. The highlight of our travel in Germany was driving up the Mosel River, very pretty with the cutest towns.

Another thought is to spend a couple days in Salzburg. It's an easy 1.5 or 2 hour train ride from Munich.

Salzburg is a good idea. My daughter was there earlier in the year but I have never been there. A day trip would be fun. She's probably more into contemporary art but appreciates the classics as well. She also wants to experience the vive of street art or what she calls the art scene. She spent a summer in NYC doing some work at the Met and also visited Paris with friends. According to her Berlin is the new emerging hub for young artists. Thanks for all the help. This forum is a wonderful source of practical information. Andrew

Yes part of Germany's beauty IME lies outside of the big cities, many of which suffered severe damage in WW2 and thus simply do not fulfill often the romantic old-world dreamish looks we often have etched in our minds' eyes and are thus not fulfilled in rather modern places like Munich, Berlin, Cologne, Stuttgart, etc.

Salzburg however is a dream old town not damaged much in war - IMO one of the most beautiful towns in Europe.

And consider going to the Rhine Gorge and hopping the K-d boats that constantly ply its prettiest part - the Rhine Gorge between Rudesheim and Koblenz (boats are 100% covered by a German Railpass too!) - Stay in a cute riverside town and have a far different experience over staying in the Uber big cities. And some towns like Bamberg like Mimar's mentions have not suffered as much and are dreamy - Bamberg is one of my very favorite German towns.

German Rail (Deutsche Bahn) is just so damn efficient, and cheap when planned correctly, that it is almost a crime not to use it for day trips from the larger cities.

Do some research on the various cheap ticket option - it will help you plan what kind of day-trips you might want to take;

http://tinyurl.com/au7q695

and the best schedule checker in all Europe;

http://tinyurl.com/266wxk3

Do some research on the various cheap ticket option - it will help you plan what kind of day-trips you might want to take;>

but if using the trains for 4 days or so then the German Twin Railpass could be cheaper than the online discounts that must be booked weeks in advance to guarantee and are train-specific - a railpass lets you hop any train anytime

For example a 4-day flexipass - 4 days of unlimited travel on trains throughout Germany cost $198 or about $50/day or about 38 euros a day

and extra days beyond that cost just $18 a day or about 13 euros a day for fully flexible hop on at will travel - great for day trips when you are not sure when you want to come back.

a 6-day Twin pass costs $234 p.p. or about 180 eurosw = 30 euros a day - about the same as 29 euro cheapest discounted and highly restricted - non-changeable non-refundedable train-specific tickets

Now there are the Lander or Regional Passes where two folks can travel for 29 euros total but you are restricted to regional trains - like to Salzburg taking about an hour longer each way and IME not nearly so comfy as ICE type faster trains. And yes you can get to Salzburg on a German Pass as Salzburg Hbf (main station) is deemed a Germany DB station for tarification purposes.

and for longer trips between cities you just show up at the station - no need to pre-book weeks in advance as it is to guarantee the limited in number discounted tickets.

German Railpass IMO is an absolute bargain if taking trains more than one of two days - especially for inter-city travel.

Thanks PalenQ. I'm definitely going to get a rail pass for days between cities so I can cluster my day trips then spend time in Berlin / Munich on off pass days. Andrew

Thanks for the thanks! And yes if in Berlin and say wanting to go to Potsdam for the Wondrous Sans Soucci palace - the Prussian Versailles set in a sprawling lovely park then by all means use a city transit pass as that is reached by Berlin's S-bahn system and it will cover travel all over Berlin as well - not sure if come by day or longer but could be cheaper than Lander Tickets, which can also be used for short day trips outside of say Munich - like going to Mad Ludwig's Fussen castles, which are served primarily by regional trains only - could go to Salzburg on one too but then it's an extra hour each way and less comfy trains so since extra days on the pass are so cheap I'd use one for that too rather than saving just a few euros and go in style and speed.

Does anyone know how the German Rail Pass works - if I buy the 5 day pass - does that mean I can use it on any 5 days within a month (the time limit)? I just want to make sure that I can jump around with the days and not have to use it consecutively.
I'm also looking for some good guides in the cities. Thanks, Andrew

ajmarton,
I have just used a 5 day pass because I used ICE trains departing before 9am extensively. Yes, you can use on any 5 days you choose. However, that is not the complete explanation on how it works. These are described in on the instruction sheet that comes with the pass.

1. DO NOT WRITE ANYTHING on the pass until it is activated by the DB. There are places for passport numbers, etc., but it is for the DB ticket agent to fill them out.

2. Before you can use the pass, it must be activated by the DB. I heard there are several ways to do this, but the most sure way and the only way I have done this is to visit a DB Reisezentrum office at any DB station with the pass and passports. Be aware that it can be EXTREMELY crowded during rush hours, late afternoons, etc, so do not wait until just before the trip. This is the step that starts the 30 day clock and NOT when you use the pass for the first time. The DB employee will stamp first two pages and look at the your passports and enter the passport numbers and the last day the pass can be used.

3. When you are sure about the day you are traveling, enter the dates and the month in correct boxes before hopping on the train. There is no mercy if you make mistakes, so triple check the date and the month before writing them down.

4. Except on a very short segment, a fare inspector will come around to check your railpass. If this is the first time of the day, the inspector stamps the date on top of the day/month you hand entered. From then on, the fare inspector will just look at your pass.

5. The DB fare inspector can demand to see your passport, so be sure you are traveling with passports.

6. The reservation for trains in Germany are mostly optional. There are a few of them you MUST reserve seats. The most likely one you would encounter are Sprinter ICE trains than runs during the rush hours on main trunk line such as Frankfurt-Berlin. Such trains would have "R" and "Reservierungspflicht" on DB schedules.

7. On trains that take reservations, there are digital display showing if the seats are reserved. Even if the seat is reserved, that seat, outside the reserved segment, is available to anyone. One caveat is that you cannot easily tell if the unlit display means not-reserved, the display is kaputt, or the DB has not yet posted the reservation info. The last one is usually the case if you hop on the train at the beginning of the run. So you find a seat with no display 15min before the train leaves, only about 10min before the departure, the reservation info get turned on, and oh no, the seat is really not available to you. If you do have to make a reservation, you can do it at DB ticket machines.

2. Before you can use the pass, it must be activated by the DB. I heard there are several ways to do this,>

Well only 3 official ways that I know of - one like you, Greg, says - take it up to a ticket window and have the staff stamp it for its validity dates - the one-month period.

It used to be that you could do it on a train for a small extra fee but that is no longer allowed - probably because you do not always see conductors on all trains all the time like before - some are on the honor system with spot checks to nab miscreants.

The only other ways I know a pass can be activated is when you buy the pass you can have the issuing agency activate the pass for you - then you are ready to get on trains from the get-go - but this is not advised because once a pass is activated it is no longer refundable in case something comes up and you have to cancel your trip, etc. Most agencies are thus reluctant to do that.

Now if coming into Germany on a train from another country then that is the only time a pass can be activated on the train by the conductor - at no fee - IME conductors may not have the requisite validating stamp and just tell you to do it when you get off the train.

But otherwise if boarding a train with an un-activated pass you risk being fined I believe and may be considered to be riding without a valid ticket.

PQ: 3. When you are sure about the day you are traveling, enter the dates and the month in correct boxes before hopping on the train. There is no mercy if you make mistakes, so triple check the date and the month before writing them down.

It's also good to remember that if you are coming from the US that we list dates differently: we do it Month, Date, Year. In Europe, they do it Date, Month, Year.

Well, I believe you have got a pretty good idea of places you got to see, I will just restate Nuremberg and Stuttgart http://on.fb.me/UkcQ84

PQ: 3. When you are sure about the day you are traveling, enter the dates and the month in correct boxes before hopping on the train. There is no mercy if you make mistakes, so triple check the date and the month before writing them down.>

Hey hey - yes indeedy - no mercy IME - and I have heard from several who did not put the date in and were then charged the price of any ordinary ticket AND the conductor then also filled in that day's date. Now some may understandably let naive tourists slide but many won't.

caveat emptor - put the date in before boarding the train and be sure you do as easytraveler above says - do it the European style - like for today 13-12-12 not our 12-13-12.

PalenQ, thank goodness you didn't respond yesterday

Don't miss Salzburg, it is an amazing little town. You can even do it as a day trip from Munich, it takes about 1 hr. 30 minutes only by train. I had been to several European cities in last August and out of all, Salzburg and Vienna were the best, with Florence not lagging behind.

Yes bilboburgler - even one of those eagle-eyed German train conductors - who at times yes scrutinize the date extremely well to see if it has not been changed - would have seen nothing wrong with 12-12-12! curious if to know if any trains were scheduled to leave at 12:12 on 12.12.12.?