Trip Report: Channel Islands
Sep 14th, 2005, 07:09 AM
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Trip Report: Channel Islands
Monday - Phoenix to Heathrow. BA288 was scheduled to depart at 19:35, but as the scheduled time came and went, the crew announced that a "glitch" had occurred as they switched from ground power unit to internal: something had prevented the cockpit lighting from coming on. Their first estimate of how long it would take to repair was 15 minutes. When that time expired, they guessed 30 minutes, at which time they brought in some experts to fiddle while we had dinner followed by a movie. We were out at 00:30 and off at :40. They poured on the coal which, added to a tail wind, cut an hour off our enroute, but we were still 4 hours late getting to Blighty Tuesday afternoon.
Sep 14th, 2005, 07:11 AM
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Tuesday (cont'd). I tried to text my friend Alain who came in from Brussels, but my Mobal phone with Virgin SIM did't work (a subplot I plan to elaborate in another thread). But the Heathrow Express and a short bus ride got us to Marble Arch in good time, and he was there to meet us.
By then it was too late to go to Kensington Palace and Harrod's (Plan A), so we wandered around Oxford Street for a while, had a picnic at the Arch, and called it a night. We got the Thistle on Priceline for $70, but as others here have inferred, that price gets you the "not yet refurbished" accommodation. It was spacious, having room for both a desk with chair and a table with two, and <u>still</u> lots of room to walk around, so although the plumbing was Edwardian we had no complaints. In-room internet access is priced at 50p per minute with a daily cap of £15, but there's a cafe two doors away selling 20 min for £1 if you need more on-line time at the expense of convenience.
By then it was too late to go to Kensington Palace and Harrod's (Plan A), so we wandered around Oxford Street for a while, had a picnic at the Arch, and called it a night. We got the Thistle on Priceline for $70, but as others here have inferred, that price gets you the "not yet refurbished" accommodation. It was spacious, having room for both a desk with chair and a table with two, and <u>still</u> lots of room to walk around, so although the plumbing was Edwardian we had no complaints. In-room internet access is priced at 50p per minute with a daily cap of £15, but there's a cafe two doors away selling 20 min for £1 if you need more on-line time at the expense of convenience.
Sep 14th, 2005, 07:14 AM
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Wednesday morning we scored some superb Danish and coffee at the <i>Pret A Manger</i> across from the Arch, and consumed it on our leisurely way down the Thames to Greenwich. There is a wonderful temporary exhibit on Nelson and Napoleon at the Maritime Museum, and even our French companion was impressed (did you ever notice that French visitors arrive in London at a station named for the battle where the General got his comeuppance?)
Rather than trek up to the Observatory, which is both strenuous (it's about 20 stories vertically) and time-consuming, we availed ourselves of the tram that runs up there from the front of the Maritime. Just for fun, I took my GPS with me, and found that the Prime Meridian that every third visitor straddles for a photo op isn't actually on that line in front of the Airy instrument at all. Well, it is as far as Ordnance Survey maps are concerned, but 0° longitude for GPS is about 103 yards east of that. Fair enough - it's been moved east several times since Flamsteed started the observatory in the 17th Century anyway. The longitude museum proper is down for renovation, though, so the Harrison clocks are biding their time down the hill at the Maritime.
Rather than trek up to the Observatory, which is both strenuous (it's about 20 stories vertically) and time-consuming, we availed ourselves of the tram that runs up there from the front of the Maritime. Just for fun, I took my GPS with me, and found that the Prime Meridian that every third visitor straddles for a photo op isn't actually on that line in front of the Airy instrument at all. Well, it is as far as Ordnance Survey maps are concerned, but 0° longitude for GPS is about 103 yards east of that. Fair enough - it's been moved east several times since Flamsteed started the observatory in the 17th Century anyway. The longitude museum proper is down for renovation, though, so the Harrison clocks are biding their time down the hill at the Maritime.
Sep 14th, 2005, 07:23 AM
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Thursday was Enigma day, out to Bletchley bright and/or early. All of the really important stuff relevant to the crypto war was dismantled right after VE Day for security reasons, so except for a few Enigmae, a working replica Colossus nearing completion, and a movie-set bombe, not much in the way of historic hardware is in evidence.
There IS, however, an appreciable amount of "backstory" material on display that offers a compelling view of the part the codebreakers played in the defeat of the Axis. A particularly poignant reminder is the Polish Memorial dedicated to the brilliant cryptanalysts who were first to get a handle on how Enigma could be conquered. The karmic symmetry of their contribution to the undoing of the Nazis possesses an elegance I cannot express.
Stop at The George on Buckingham Road for one of their pub sandwiches. You'll have to diverge from the direct foot path between the train station and the museum, but I guarantee it will be worth it.
And the next time you're in the "History of Computing" museum in Block B, you may see the Sphere I machine that I built in 1976. The museum director and I have begun discussions on displaying it there.
There IS, however, an appreciable amount of "backstory" material on display that offers a compelling view of the part the codebreakers played in the defeat of the Axis. A particularly poignant reminder is the Polish Memorial dedicated to the brilliant cryptanalysts who were first to get a handle on how Enigma could be conquered. The karmic symmetry of their contribution to the undoing of the Nazis possesses an elegance I cannot express.
Stop at The George on Buckingham Road for one of their pub sandwiches. You'll have to diverge from the direct foot path between the train station and the museum, but I guarantee it will be worth it.
And the next time you're in the "History of Computing" museum in Block B, you may see the Sphere I machine that I built in 1976. The museum director and I have begun discussions on displaying it there.
Sep 14th, 2005, 07:53 AM
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Friday we made our way out to the Imperial War Museum for a half-day look around. It's south and west of Waterloo, and normally easy to reach by bus 159 or Lambeth North on the Tube.
But that only applies on days when The Ashes isn't being played at The Oval down the block. Holy smoke! People in motion.
After lunch, we headed to Gatwick for the 1-hour flight to Jersey. I would rather have gone by train and boat, but the schedules just don't line up if you're coming from London.
Upon arriving, the first thing we discovered is that you can get anywhere on the island by bus for a couple of bucks. Our shindig was headquartered at the Pomme d'Or hotel right down at the marina in St. Helier (<i>sant hell'yer</i> auf englisch), and our 20-minute ride in from the airport provided us with an introduction to the Jersey dialect, as kids going in for a night on the town climbed aboard at every stop and chattered all the way.
After a few pints of the local bitter with our friends, we called it a day.
But that only applies on days when The Ashes isn't being played at The Oval down the block. Holy smoke! People in motion.
After lunch, we headed to Gatwick for the 1-hour flight to Jersey. I would rather have gone by train and boat, but the schedules just don't line up if you're coming from London.
Upon arriving, the first thing we discovered is that you can get anywhere on the island by bus for a couple of bucks. Our shindig was headquartered at the Pomme d'Or hotel right down at the marina in St. Helier (<i>sant hell'yer</i> auf englisch), and our 20-minute ride in from the airport provided us with an introduction to the Jersey dialect, as kids going in for a night on the town climbed aboard at every stop and chattered all the way.
After a few pints of the local bitter with our friends, we called it a day.
Sep 14th, 2005, 08:22 AM
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Saturday morning everybody bussed over to Mont Orgueil Castle, where a loquacious (okay, garralous) guide named Harry filled us in on the history of conflict that is the Channel Islands. For over a thousand years, these few square miles have been pawns in the disputes between warring factions within and without England (Norman French, Yorkists, Roundheads, Nazis), and typically changed ownership about three times per century.
I won't regale you with the detail, but suffice it to say that the architecture of these castles affords some spectacular vistas, owing to their strategic placement and development.
The principal industry on Jersey was once quarrying. Much of the monumental historic structures in England were built of Jersey marble (which comes in three colors, I am reliably informed). But since the need for natural materials has been supplanted across the board, the island's chief income has shifted to tourism, and they play the We Were The Only British Soil The Germans Occupied tale to the hilt. We toured the Tapestry Museum in the afternoon, where a display is made of the needlepoint (crewel?) embroidery the island put together for the 50th anniversary. Here it is on line: <b>http://www.jeron.je/Local/OccupationTapestry.htm</b>
As you can see, it is a rather mawkish effort to magnify the importance of an extremely unimportant event in the history of the world. While London was being blitzed into ashes, the Channel Islanders had to endure having their cars appropriated. Okay, there were shortages (accounting for a few deaths), but let's face it - Leningrad this ain't. But since it's the only thing that's happened in this backwater in the last several hundred years, they get as much mileage out of it as they can.
I won't regale you with the detail, but suffice it to say that the architecture of these castles affords some spectacular vistas, owing to their strategic placement and development.
The principal industry on Jersey was once quarrying. Much of the monumental historic structures in England were built of Jersey marble (which comes in three colors, I am reliably informed). But since the need for natural materials has been supplanted across the board, the island's chief income has shifted to tourism, and they play the We Were The Only British Soil The Germans Occupied tale to the hilt. We toured the Tapestry Museum in the afternoon, where a display is made of the needlepoint (crewel?) embroidery the island put together for the 50th anniversary. Here it is on line: <b>http://www.jeron.je/Local/OccupationTapestry.htm</b>
As you can see, it is a rather mawkish effort to magnify the importance of an extremely unimportant event in the history of the world. While London was being blitzed into ashes, the Channel Islanders had to endure having their cars appropriated. Okay, there were shortages (accounting for a few deaths), but let's face it - Leningrad this ain't. But since it's the only thing that's happened in this backwater in the last several hundred years, they get as much mileage out of it as they can.
Sep 14th, 2005, 08:37 AM
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Sunday we hiked down to the Condor Ferry terminal (actually, everything in St. Helier is within a fifteen-minute walk of everything else) for a day excursion to Guernsey. An hour later, we were busing through the back roads of Jersey's neighbor to the north (actually, there are precious few roads of <u>any</u> description on the islands, but everyone gets around very well nonetheless).
As you might well imagine, the dairy industry is strong (what do you expect from islands that have cows named after them?), but there isn't enough land to produce enough milk to put much of a dent in the economy - yet J & G cream and butter command premium prices in the UK, and it's too bad they can't make more.
Many farmers build little shelters by the road where they put out things like vegetables and eggs for sale; people take what they want and leave the money. The "honesty boxes" are unattended, and pilferage doesn't seem to be a problem. It suggests that Channel Islanders are happy with what they've got, and wouldn't think of taking what's not theirs. Ya gotta like that.
After dinner at the Duke of Richmond Hotel (the cod was scrumptious, and the cheesecake delightful), we experienced the approach to St. Helier. I think I heard ignorant armies clashing by night.
As you might well imagine, the dairy industry is strong (what do you expect from islands that have cows named after them?), but there isn't enough land to produce enough milk to put much of a dent in the economy - yet J & G cream and butter command premium prices in the UK, and it's too bad they can't make more.
Many farmers build little shelters by the road where they put out things like vegetables and eggs for sale; people take what they want and leave the money. The "honesty boxes" are unattended, and pilferage doesn't seem to be a problem. It suggests that Channel Islanders are happy with what they've got, and wouldn't think of taking what's not theirs. Ya gotta like that.
After dinner at the Duke of Richmond Hotel (the cod was scrumptious, and the cheesecake delightful), we experienced the approach to St. Helier. I think I heard ignorant armies clashing by night.
Sep 14th, 2005, 08:48 AM
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Robespierre:
You really ought to do a bit of research before disparaging what happened during the Channel Islands' Occupation.
No doubt the deaths of locally-born Jews in Jersey, the deportation of 300 Eastern European Jews from Guernsey, the total evacuation of Alderney and its conversion into a deathcamp (and the site of an unknowable number of murders) are prety small beer by some people's standards.
But, together with the deportations of many local men (which,in fairness, many did survive), it adds up to a concentration of suffering far greater than anywhere else in the English-speaking world had to put up with during WW2. Certainly none of my family wanted to leave the Blitz and move to Jersey.
And I suspect virtually everyone on this board has spent their entire life under circumstances a great deal less terrifying than the Channel Islanders had to go through.
Circumstances which, as modern revisionist historians have uncovered increasing evidence that not every Channel Islander was a saint during the period, and many people now alive are finding their relatives didn't necessarily behave that well, are still significant.
You nay find the memorials mawkish. But they're part of the family history of virtually everyone on the islands.
And I've never seen their tourist people exploit anything other than the islands' relatively mild climate and interesting seafood.
Pity, because the trip report was really good until we got to that bit.
You really ought to do a bit of research before disparaging what happened during the Channel Islands' Occupation.
No doubt the deaths of locally-born Jews in Jersey, the deportation of 300 Eastern European Jews from Guernsey, the total evacuation of Alderney and its conversion into a deathcamp (and the site of an unknowable number of murders) are prety small beer by some people's standards.
But, together with the deportations of many local men (which,in fairness, many did survive), it adds up to a concentration of suffering far greater than anywhere else in the English-speaking world had to put up with during WW2. Certainly none of my family wanted to leave the Blitz and move to Jersey.
And I suspect virtually everyone on this board has spent their entire life under circumstances a great deal less terrifying than the Channel Islanders had to go through.
Circumstances which, as modern revisionist historians have uncovered increasing evidence that not every Channel Islander was a saint during the period, and many people now alive are finding their relatives didn't necessarily behave that well, are still significant.
You nay find the memorials mawkish. But they're part of the family history of virtually everyone on the islands.
And I've never seen their tourist people exploit anything other than the islands' relatively mild climate and interesting seafood.
Pity, because the trip report was really good until we got to that bit.
Sep 14th, 2005, 09:04 AM
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Monday morning, a DUKW took us out to Elizabeth Castle in the harbor (it's a walk at low tide), and once again we saw the layers of medieval, Napoleonic, Victorian, and <i>Festung Europa</i> architecture piled on top of one another. Here's this 400-year old fortress with mounts for 24-pound muzzle-loaders juxtaposed with concrete bunkers and fire control positions for 88mm AA guns. It's weird.
But the views from the top of the upper works are awe-inspiring (well worth the 350-foot climb), and the artillery museum downstairs is the most complete I've seen in its natural context. Every weapon in the display (which traces the history of gunpowder) was in use on the spot at some time.
In the afternoon, we took a cruise out to the southwest point of the island, but unless you like seeing beaches and concrete gun emplacements from 100 yards away, I can't recommend it.
After our goodbyes, we trekked out to Jersey International for the BA back to Gatwick. One more night in the Thistle, and home.
All in all, I have to say the trip was well worth the effort. I'd like to go back some time without any kind of schedule, and just bike around until I reached the point where had been on these perfect little islands long enough. If I never got to that point, it might not surprise me.
(In case you're wondering, the event we attended is described in this brochure: <b>http://tinyurl.com/9so36</b
But the views from the top of the upper works are awe-inspiring (well worth the 350-foot climb), and the artillery museum downstairs is the most complete I've seen in its natural context. Every weapon in the display (which traces the history of gunpowder) was in use on the spot at some time.
In the afternoon, we took a cruise out to the southwest point of the island, but unless you like seeing beaches and concrete gun emplacements from 100 yards away, I can't recommend it.
After our goodbyes, we trekked out to Jersey International for the BA back to Gatwick. One more night in the Thistle, and home.
All in all, I have to say the trip was well worth the effort. I'd like to go back some time without any kind of schedule, and just bike around until I reached the point where had been on these perfect little islands long enough. If I never got to that point, it might not surprise me.
(In case you're wondering, the event we attended is described in this brochure: <b>http://tinyurl.com/9so36</b
Sep 14th, 2005, 02:01 PM
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No doubt[list] are prety small beer by some people's standards. <b>I mentioned London and Leningrad. How about Rotterdam and Dresden?</b>
But, together with the deportations of many local men (which,in fairness, many did survive), it adds up to a concentration of suffering far greater than anywhere else in the English-speaking world had to put up with during WW2. <b>Not counting the Phillipines?</b>
Certainly none of my family wanted to leave the Blitz and move to Jersey. <b>They would have been safer (statistically speaking) if they had.</b>
And I suspect virtually everyone on this board has spent their entire life under circumstances a great deal less terrifying than the Channel Islanders had to go through. <b>Yes, compared to nothing, the islanders endured a lot. When the numerator is zero, the magnitude of the denominator is unimportant. But nowhere in the tapestry is mentioned the blood sacrifice of the thousands of slave laborers who built the fortifications and infrastructure for the Germans.</b>
Circumstances which ... are still significant. <b>To the islanders, of course. But the islands were bypassed by the invasion, and not liberated until after V-E Day.</b>
You nay find the memorials mawkish. But they're part of the family history of virtually everyone on the islands. <b>The fact that they're part of the family history doesn't detract from their mawkishness.</b>
And I've never seen their tourist people exploit anything other than the islands' relatively mild climate and interesting seafood. <b>The Occupation is in every travel brochure and site I've seen. Every shop sells Occupation souvenirs. The main town square, as well as the main route through St. Helier, are named for the Liberation (in which the locals played absolutely no part).</b>
Pity, because the trip report was really good until we got to that bit. <b>Thank you.</b>
But, together with the deportations of many local men (which,in fairness, many did survive), it adds up to a concentration of suffering far greater than anywhere else in the English-speaking world had to put up with during WW2. <b>Not counting the Phillipines?</b>
Certainly none of my family wanted to leave the Blitz and move to Jersey. <b>They would have been safer (statistically speaking) if they had.</b>
And I suspect virtually everyone on this board has spent their entire life under circumstances a great deal less terrifying than the Channel Islanders had to go through. <b>Yes, compared to nothing, the islanders endured a lot. When the numerator is zero, the magnitude of the denominator is unimportant. But nowhere in the tapestry is mentioned the blood sacrifice of the thousands of slave laborers who built the fortifications and infrastructure for the Germans.</b>
Circumstances which ... are still significant. <b>To the islanders, of course. But the islands were bypassed by the invasion, and not liberated until after V-E Day.</b>
You nay find the memorials mawkish. But they're part of the family history of virtually everyone on the islands. <b>The fact that they're part of the family history doesn't detract from their mawkishness.</b>
And I've never seen their tourist people exploit anything other than the islands' relatively mild climate and interesting seafood. <b>The Occupation is in every travel brochure and site I've seen. Every shop sells Occupation souvenirs. The main town square, as well as the main route through St. Helier, are named for the Liberation (in which the locals played absolutely no part).</b>
Pity, because the trip report was really good until we got to that bit. <b>Thank you.</b>
Sep 15th, 2005, 05:19 PM
#11
In spite of your follow-up comments, I have to side with Flanneruk. I've spent quite a bit of time on Jersey, Guernsey and Alderney visiting close family friends. One of our friends wrote a book on the occupation of Guernsey and Alderney, and I have spoken with people who lived on islands during the occupation. I don't think you have much more than superficial knowledge on the circumstances the islanders faced. It was not "an extremely unimportant event in the history of the world" to the people who actually had to live through it.
BTW, my mother lived throught he Blitz and, in retrospect, would not have preferred to be on the islands.
BTW, my mother lived throught he Blitz and, in retrospect, would not have preferred to be on the islands.
Sep 15th, 2005, 07:11 PM
#12
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"It was not 'an extremely unimportant event in the history of the world' to the people who actually had to live through it."
My point precisely. It was only "important" to the few directly affected. In the grand scheme of things, the deprivations of the islanders were no more than a footnote.
My point precisely. It was only "important" to the few directly affected. In the grand scheme of things, the deprivations of the islanders were no more than a footnote.
Sep 15th, 2005, 07:27 PM
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Gee - it's just a trip report, not a thesis! How much research is one expected to do before writing up a report of one's impressions of a visit to someplace? He's simply reporting on what he witnessed, not trying to underrepresent the effects of the Occupation on the Channel Islands for heaven's sake!
Why WOULD he have more than superficial knowledge of the history of the place? For goodness' sake, he was a tourist/traveler there, that's all! Do we all need to be walking encylopedias of the places we visit? I like lots of advance research as much as the next traveler, and there are places in France that I really do know a WHOLE lot about, but the vast majority of places I visit as a tourist I learn by reading literature, taking tours, and spouting back the stuff the local guides tell me.
It's good to get other perspectives, but please let Robespierre continue his well-written and insightful commentary. The mere fact that it's literate is of interest to me. Not to mention that it covers a teritory not often talked about on this forum.
Why WOULD he have more than superficial knowledge of the history of the place? For goodness' sake, he was a tourist/traveler there, that's all! Do we all need to be walking encylopedias of the places we visit? I like lots of advance research as much as the next traveler, and there are places in France that I really do know a WHOLE lot about, but the vast majority of places I visit as a tourist I learn by reading literature, taking tours, and spouting back the stuff the local guides tell me.
It's good to get other perspectives, but please let Robespierre continue his well-written and insightful commentary. The mere fact that it's literate is of interest to me. Not to mention that it covers a teritory not often talked about on this forum.
Sep 16th, 2005, 04:04 AM
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Robespierre - Your trip report brought back lovely memories for me. I was holidaying on Guernsey for 10 days last year, having left France at St.Malo.
We did a day trip to Jersey on that enormous Condor Cat. We visited the famous Gerald Durrell Zoo to see the secretive Ais-Ais and a rare Pink Pigeon.
Being June both islands were a mass of flowers. Travelling around on the bus was very cheap as you say and definitely the best way to get around.
Were'nt those teeny weeny little roads ( I called them Lanes) so well negotiated by the bus drivers!
Another outing was a small boat trip around Guernsey to do a "Puffin Patrol", as well as recognise many other sea birds darting around the cliffs.
A day trip to Herm was fantastic and with the white beach sand and clear blue water, it could have easily been mistaken for a Tropical island!
I would love to go back.
We did a day trip to Jersey on that enormous Condor Cat. We visited the famous Gerald Durrell Zoo to see the secretive Ais-Ais and a rare Pink Pigeon.
Being June both islands were a mass of flowers. Travelling around on the bus was very cheap as you say and definitely the best way to get around.
Were'nt those teeny weeny little roads ( I called them Lanes) so well negotiated by the bus drivers!
Another outing was a small boat trip around Guernsey to do a "Puffin Patrol", as well as recognise many other sea birds darting around the cliffs.
A day trip to Herm was fantastic and with the white beach sand and clear blue water, it could have easily been mistaken for a Tropical island!
I would love to go back.
Sep 16th, 2005, 05:42 PM
#15
StCirq: I'm not asking for a thesis, just a bit of sensitivity and accuracy. (What's the point of a report if it isn't accurate?) The islanders didn't just lose their cars, their property was confiscated and many things such as farm equipment and household furnishings were destroyed. Women were raped; men were beaten. There were not just shortages, there was starvation. Medical care was almost non-existent. True, it was not on the scale of Leningrad, but these were Nazis nevertheless.
Sep 16th, 2005, 06:01 PM
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Thanks for sharing Robespierre.
Your report just peaked my interest on a subject that I know very little. It’s worth picking up a book or two to educate myself. I have always been interested in Enigma and Bletchley Hall.
Your report just peaked my interest on a subject that I know very little. It’s worth picking up a book or two to educate myself. I have always been interested in Enigma and Bletchley Hall.
Sep 16th, 2005, 06:22 PM
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Well, Jean, thanks for adding that information, which you no doubt know because of your many trips to the islands and the fact that a friend of yours wrote a book on the subject. Do you think every first-time visitor is going to have the in-depth appreciation of all that that you have?
Setting the record straight is fine and useful, so thanks for that. I'm sure that any further facts you care to share about the area will be appreciated, coming from the expert that you are. But my point was that Robespierre wasn't pretending to be an expert, just telling his story as it unfolded for him as a traveler.
Setting the record straight is fine and useful, so thanks for that. I'm sure that any further facts you care to share about the area will be appreciated, coming from the expert that you are. But my point was that Robespierre wasn't pretending to be an expert, just telling his story as it unfolded for him as a traveler.
Sep 16th, 2005, 08:38 PM
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First, I did find it so refreshing to find a trip report on an area that, as was already noted, seldom if ever comes up here (and has always intrigued me - for the A.A. Milne poems if nothing else).
But I think our original OP needs to step back just a bit and acknowledge that his one-time, 60 years later impression might possibly be a tad off and/or judgemental. Who are any of us to pass verdicts anyone else's hardship? Just the idea of being occupied....and adrift/alone out there in the Channel, cut off from home/mainland...gives pause.
Regardless..it was a good read and I'll hold out hope that someday I get to see these isles for myself.
But I think our original OP needs to step back just a bit and acknowledge that his one-time, 60 years later impression might possibly be a tad off and/or judgemental. Who are any of us to pass verdicts anyone else's hardship? Just the idea of being occupied....and adrift/alone out there in the Channel, cut off from home/mainland...gives pause.
Regardless..it was a good read and I'll hold out hope that someday I get to see these isles for myself.
Sep 17th, 2005, 05:30 AM
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ooh, I just know I'm going to regret this . . . . .
"Robespierre wasn't pretending to be an expert" Well - Guess there is always a first time. Actually that is exactly what it reads like.
(And I'm sorry, but anyone who spends time in the Channel Islands should be a bit more aware about what happened there during the war)
Most of the report is really interesting - but he is definitely wrong about the Islands during the War.
"But since it's the only thing that's happened in this backwater in the last several hundred years, they get as much mileage out of it as they can." is just plain smug . . . . .
"Robespierre wasn't pretending to be an expert" Well - Guess there is always a first time. Actually that is exactly what it reads like.
(And I'm sorry, but anyone who spends time in the Channel Islands should be a bit more aware about what happened there during the war)
Most of the report is really interesting - but he is definitely wrong about the Islands during the War.
"But since it's the only thing that's happened in this backwater in the last several hundred years, they get as much mileage out of it as they can." is just plain smug . . . . .
Sep 17th, 2005, 06:42 AM
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No one else can possibly know how much history of the occupation I am aware of, so statements suggesting that my opinion would be different if I knew more are simply specious. I have read numerous books on the period, and I stand by my assertions. If anyone else wishes to hold a different view based on the same facts, they have that right.
