marvelousmouse

I changed my trip around last night. Basically added a week and replaced NYC with Paris. So now I have another night in both Rome and London, nearly a week in Paris, and 3 nights in Florence between Venice and Rome.

So Paris and Florence are the two completely new additions and now j have more planning to do. Lodging is all taken care of. Reccomendations for food would be much appreciated.

Does anyone have tips for eating inexpensively in Paris? I'm a little more budget minded now that I've added a week, but I'd rather have more time than shopping/dining money.

What do you love doing in Florence? I'd love to hear about your favorite sites. I'm going for the Accademia and Uffizi mostly, but I'd also like to see some of the city. are there any good free or inexpensive walking tours?

I'm still tentatively considering a day trip to Pompeii from Rome. I realize it will certainly be dependent on the weather. But one of the issues I'm encountering is that most of the tours I had bookmarked are now mostly too expensive for my blood. There's a walks of Italy tour I'd consider but because of winter scheduling, there's only one day I could go. Not optimal. Is it advisable to independently tour? Are there any good audio guides for that? I figure I'll go to Naples for the Christmas alley and the national museum and then visit Pompeii if the weather allows. Pompeii is on my bucket list and I'd hate to pass on it when I'm so close!

Are there any museums/sites that you advise buying tickets ahead of time? So far I have Borghese. I generally play it by ear but I expect that early January might be busy in both Rome and Paris.

Are there any good day trips from Paris in case I need a break? The two obvious ones that everyone I know has suggested are Disney and Versailles but neither sound all that fun in the winter. Any small cities or villages that are easy to reach and would be interesting even in January?

Thanks so much for any suggestions you can give me!

MmePerdu

"Are there any good day trips from Paris in case I need a break?"

Get a copy of Anabel Simms' book, "An Hour from Paris". Descriptions of a number of places and how to get there. Small enough to carry with you so you don't have to decide in advance.

marvelousmouse

Great! Thanks, mmeperdu!

StCirq

Also look up French Mystique Tours here on Fodors. He has an exhaustive list of daytrips from Paris.

Ones that I've enjoyed, some many times, are:

Chantilly and Senlis
Auvers-sur-Oise
Fontainebleau
Vaux-le-Vicomte
Saint-Denis
Basilica of Saint-Denis
St-Germain-en-Laye
Ile des Impressionistes
And Château de Vincennes, which is IN Paris.

My husband and I are in Paris often enough that we don't feel the need to spend a lot of money on food, so we tend to eat casual meals in the outer arrondissements. We are also fond of eating "ethnic foods" in Paris - Vietnamese in Belleville, Thai and Lebanese and African in Ménilmontant, etc. We will always be happy splurging for a nice meal someplace, but unlike a lot of people we don't go to Paris for elegant meals - we can have them right here at home for much less.

It would help if you mentioned a budget, in euros, for what you'd like to stick to for food in Paris.

marvelousmouse

Oooh, hadn't thought to look for ethnic food. Is there any good middle eastern restaurants in Paris? That is something that is less easy to find here.

Honestly, I haven't really got a firm budget. If I'm being "good" at home, that's generally under 30 a meal. I just want to keep it as low as possible and not eat fast food. (When I'm being "naughty", it's 60+ a meal, and I simply can't afford that every day- or even most days- of this trip).

StCirq

We're on the same wavelength for budget, then. My husband and I can often make it for well under 50 € a day for food, but caveat: we adore food, but have relatively small appetities. We can often share an appetizer, one main plât, and a quart de vin and be perfectly full and happy. For breakfast we can share a croissant and each have a coffee. For lunch we can happily share a sandwich. So it does depend on how much you can/want to eat. There's no need to eat fast food - we never do (unless you call takeout sushi or kebabs fast food). 30€ for a nice meal for each of us is a "nice" meal, though we've gone way beyond that sometimes.

Where will you be staying? I'll try to scrounge up some of our good but inexpensive favorites that aren't too much of a problem to get to.

marvelousmouse

MIJE hostel. I think the name of the neighborhood is Marais, but I could be wrong. Thanks, that would be very much appreciated!

It sounds like you and your husband eat the same way I do. The trick for me is that I'm a light eater as long as I feed myself throughout the day- it's when I skip meals that I generally get into trouble with my dinner bill.

I love soup, good delis, good bakeries. Heavily processed or fried generally takes a toll- and I can eat dairy but generally only in small amounts. I'm mostly thinking with the weather that I'll be wanting hot meals- during the summer, which is when I generally travel, I tend to eat a lot of salad or cold sandwiches.

Very general question: what is inexpensive to order beverage wise? I've gathered soda is expensive in Europe. Coffee or tea or house wine perhaps? I usually want something other than water with my dinners.

And lastly- I am an espresso and pastry fiend, so if you have any favorite patisseries or coffee shops, please mention them!

marvelousmouse

Does French Mystique only do bike tours? Because that is what keeps coming up. I'm very tempted but I'm not sure if I want to part with the money (or risk scheduling ahead and end up going in freezing rain).

StCirq

I'm doing nasty French administrative stuff tonight, so don't have time to go back into my restaurant files, but will get to it if not tomorrow, over the weekend.

I'm afraid I'm no good at all with pastries. I was born without a sweet tooth, and even with the magnificent displays all over Paris (and France), I'm never tempted except very, very occasionally by a lemon tartelette.

We usually order a quarter pitcher of the house wine (mostly red, but sometimes white, or rosé if they have a nice dry one we're familiar with). That's usually the least expensive. Sodas ARE expensive, and should it make any difference to you (which it shouldn't), it's considered pretty gauche in France to drink a soda with a meal in a restaurant. There are, of course, lots of mineral waters to choose from normally, or beers, or non-alcoholic drinks (boissons sans alcool).

Your hostel sounds like it is fairly close to our hotel, on the outskirts of the Marais. Lovely neighborhood all around Bastille and République. You can also easily get from there to Belleville and Ménilmontant, which are teeming with inexpensive, good, ethnic restaurants. The Belleville Market is something to behold.

StCirq

I'm doing nasty French administrative stuff tonight, so don't have time to go back into my restaurant files, but will get to it if not tomorrow, over the weekend.

I'm afraid I'm no good at all with pastries. I was born without a sweet tooth, and even with the magnificent displays all over Paris (and France), I'm never tempted except very, very occasionally by a lemon tartelette.

We usually order a quarter pitcher of the house wine (mostly red, but sometimes white, or rosé if they have a nice dry one we're familiar with). That's usually the least expensive. Sodas ARE expensive, and should it make any difference to you (which it shouldn't), it's considered pretty gauche in France to drink a soda with a meal in a restaurant. There are, of course, lots of mineral waters to choose from normally, or beers, or non-alcoholic drinks (boissons sans alcool).

Your hostel sounds like it is fairly close to our hotel, on the outskirts of the Marais. Lovely neighborhood all around Bastille and République. You can also easily get from there to Belleville and Ménilmontant, which are teeming with inexpensive, good, ethnic restaurants. The Belleville Market is something to behold.

Jean

Some of my favorite, lesser-known sights in Florence:

Opificio delle Pietre Dure (near Accademia)
http://www.museumsinflorence.com/mus...etre_dure.html

Capella dei Magi (Palazzo Medici Riccardi near San Lorenzo)
http://www.museumsinflorence.com/mus..._the_magi.html

Capella Brancacci (reservations required, near Santo Spirito)
http://www.museumsinflorence.com/mus...ci_chapel.html

Palazzo Davanzati, the restored villa of a prominent merchant and civic leader which also holds a wonderful lace collection
http://www.museumsinflorence.com/mus...davanzati.html

The six Last Supper frescoes scattered around the city; similar and yet each unique.

More obvious sights you shouldn't miss:

Exterior and interior of the Baptistry

Interior of Duomo and Santa Croce. Climb to the Duomo's Lantern if you can.

The Bargello

marvelousmouse

Good luck with your nasty French admin stuff! I generally don't have much of a sweet tooth either but I am frequently lured in by pastries which are my weak spot.

One could argue it is uncultured and unhip to order soda with dinner here (at least if one is over 21) but many restaurants just don't have great nonalcoholic options and wine can be so ridiculously marked up in price. I like sparkling mineral water, and decent tea but that is surprisingly difficult to find. So soda is my default and nope, I don't care what others think I am assuming that since you don't have a sweet tooth, house wine tends to be on the dry side?

fuzzbucket

Cotes du Rhone is the usual default wine - it's medium-dry, goes with everything and is cheap. Saumur is a close second, and both are available in red or white.

You can buy quiches, salades, sandwiches for under 6 EU at bakeries all along rue Saint-Antoine, about 2 blocks from you. There is a very good Asian place at 81 rue Saint Antoine - "Delice House" - where you can ask them to heat your meal to go or you can eat in the back. Very inexpensive and a lot of food. Behind Monoprix in the same neighborhood is "La Cerise sur la Pizza".
There are fruit and vegetable stands on rue Saint-Antoine - make sure you don't touch anything unless you see bags available.

MIJE does not allow alcohol on the premises, but there is a park right next door which is somewhat protected from the wind, and there are benches. You can buy bottles of wine for less than 5 EU from the supermarket and drink there or in other parks, as long as you do it discreetly.

StCirq

Yes, we order dry wines, when possible, and Côtes du Rhône is usually a good choice. And yes, it's normally a good deal cheaper than a soda.

ElendilPickle

Sounds like a wonderful trip! We're starting to think about visiting France in 2018. Since we travel on a fairly low budget, I hope you'll do a trip report.

For Rome, we booked tickets for the Colosseum and the Vatican Museums ahead of time online, and in Florence, we booked Uffizi tickets online.

We thought the New Rome Free Tour was good - informative, and we got to see a few things we most likely wouldn't have found on our own. www.newromefreetour.com

In Florence, we enjoyed Florence Free Tour's Renaissance walk. http://www.florencefreetour.com

Both tours are tip-based; there is no charge for the tour, so you tip your guide what you think your time was worth at the end.

Lee Ann

Sassafrass

Jean gave you a good list. I will second Santa Croce in Florence.

Christina

Instead of looking for Middle Eastern, you might look for North African, as there are quite a few of those in Paris, of course (tunisian, Moroccan, etc.), given history. But you can find cheap restaurants fairly easily in the more outer arrondisements.

AS for beverages, I am not sure what you mean by soda, I gather a soft drink not seltzer or carbonated water. no, I do not find soda to be more expensive than wine, in fact, it is about the same price as I recall in all the places I tend to go. And the same price as cheap wine, not the more expensive stuff. Draft beer may be a little bit cheaper. For example, a glass of the cheapest house wine may be around 5-6 euro (and that is not a lot, only 15 cl), and a soft drink like Coke or Orangina, whatever, is also around 5-6 euro, as will be many bottled waters like Evian, Vittel, etc. for 50 cl. The cheapest draft beer may be 5 euro, a bit less than the others.

The reason why wine may be cheaper is just that you can order a carafe for 2 people and you can't do that with soda. For example, a pichet of cheap house wine may be 8-10 euro but that is only 25 cl, not even 2 of the 15 cl glasses. The larger ones (50 cl) may be about 16-20 euro, so per person, that is more than a single soft drink. At least those are typical prices in the cafes/bistros etc where I stay and I don't stay in the most expensive areas in the center, I am often in Montparnasse. But in the even cheaper areas, those example prices may be a bit less by a euro or so per glass or whatever.

A lot of French people don't care if it is supposedly so gauche in France to drink Coke with meals as I have seen numerous French people doing it and they didn't seem to care what others thought. In fact, I've noticed that local residents often don't care about these things, it's the people with the rules about what is gauche or not who do to lecture tourists who do. If anyone told me at home that I shouldn't order what I wanted to drink in a restaurant as it was "gauche", I'd tell them to get lost.

annhig

IME, in both France and Italy the cheapest drinking options are wine [by the carafe or glass] and tap water [un carafe d'eau]. soda, by which I suppose you mean coke or lemonade, are the most expensive. As for tea, forget it - they don't get the water hot enough.

In Florence, a fun day can be had by going first to the museum in the piazza San Marco [at the top of Via Cavour] [it opens only in the mornings] and then getting the bus up to Fiesole . It goes from the other side of the square, quite close to the entrance to the Academia. Once up there you can walk up to the San Francesco Monastery, and see the Egyptian mummies in the museum, then walk back down to the Basilica in the square and the Roman Theatre, before having lunch in the square.

Get the bus back down to see the Academia and have tea in the lovely cafe on the corner of Cavour and the piazza :

http://www.grancaffesanmarco.it/en

buona giornata!

Also, a cheap and good meal can be had at the cafe in the Mercato San Ambroglio, just north of Santa Croce, and the area around the market is well worth exploring too.

marvelousmouse

Fuzzbucket, great tips, exactly the sort of thing that I was looking for. I can spend a bit more in dinners if I can do cheap breakfast and lunch- and I love quiche! I'm completely ok with the hostel being booze free- I actually prefer that in a hostel.

Elendilpickle- I certainly plan to do a trip report but have no idea how helpful that will be to you. This is uncharted territory for me, so it should be interesting. Thinking about doing a rolling TR as I go, but that may involve a lot of posts that begin with "I got so lost today" thanks for the free tour suggestions!

I really, really do not want to jettison this thread into an endless wrangle over tips. I understand that one doesn't tip a certain percentage in restaurants like we Americans are used to. But what do y'all usually tip the city walk tour guides? Especially when it's free?

Christina- yes, I mean coke. I'll choose wine over coke if it's the same price. For one thing, less sugar. But what I'm really looking forward to is German beer!! I honestly don't think anyone cares what tourists look like or what they drink- except here on the forums lol. Then it's Serious Business.

annhig- thanks for the mummies! Didn't know those existed! bummer about the tea. At least I have London to look forward to. Is coffee fairly good? I mean drip style at restaurants? Or do they generally do French press? Is it possible to get hot water at coffee shops for my thermos? I was thinking of carrying my own tea- I do that here pretty frequently when the only game in town is Starbucks.

If there are any cocktail drinkers here...where would you splurge? France or Italy or England? Why?

Leely2

Jean's list for Florence, especially Brancacci Chapel, plus Santa Croce plus San Marco. I actually don't like Florence itself all that much, but the art, architecture and history--holy hell, it's fantastic. Have a wonderful time!