I have traveled through Italy with my dad and stepmom who are a bi-racial couple. We encountered no problems at all, not even stares. I haven't yet been to Bosnia or Croatia, I hope someone else can help.

Italy, no problem. The Balkan area, possibly, but not to a big extent, not to children

I don't think your children will be threatened in Croatia or Bosnia. ( Visited both countries several times).

You won't have any real problems. People may stare and can be close minded in the Balkans (and Italy too), but they certainly won't harm you or your children. You really have nothing to worry about.

Biracial/multiracial families are far more common in Europe than in US, so it's not a novelty. Provided you try to blend with local culture and expectations, you will be left alone to enjoy your holidays. And you shouldn't expect any trouble from those in tourist industry, as they need to earn every cent from visitors wherever they are from.

When the last thing you notice is the color of skin,
and when the first thing you look for is the beauty within,
You shall me free.

>Biracial/multiracial families are far more common in Europe than in US, so it's not a novelty.<

Where did you get the data on this?

Or is this just more anecdotal progaganda supporting that Europe is more open-minded than the US?

Sorry, but we in the US have a black president. No European nation can claim a balck head-of-state.

It is really annoying--especially for me because I was born in Europe--when people start claiming that Europe is more diverse than the US.

Thin

I don't know the figures for the US, but see
http://tinyurl.com/7u9c7

I quote
"By 1997 already half of black men and a third of black women in relationships had a white partner according to a major study of ethnic minorities published by the Policy Studies Institute (PSI).

It also revealed that other inter-racial relationships were flourishing with a fifth of Asian men and 10% of Asian women opting for a white partner"

Europe is a big place .
Some countries have (now) rather large immigrant population ( Germany, Holland) , or a good segment of the population originated from the former colonies ( France, Britain). Easter Europe may be much less diverse.
The fact that US president is of mixed race is wonderful, but Blacks represent about 14% of the US population. I don't think one would find similar statistics in any European country.
I would agree, though, that US and Canada are much more accepting of diversity than any European country ( so far).

MsP: with all due respect your interpretation is a total misunderstanding of that statistic. Market research was my field of study. What that figure suggests might be that people of colour are likely to look outside their own census group for a partner. But there is no way that those numbers support your larger claim. In fact, quite the opposite: those people who are visibile minorities seek partners outside their own racial group because there are not enough within.

Having said that and having witnessed some prejudice in Italy, I would still say that attitudes there are changing rapidly. Any negative feelings will be limited to stares as others have said. I do hope your children do not understand the language, though because I have had the uncomfortable 'advantage' of understanding a few remarks delivered by locals that were clearly not meant to be understood by me. The influx of rapid immigration to Italy has moved faster than the open-mindedness that will come in time.

I don't think MsP was interpeting anything, she merely gave a link to an interesting article (and those kind of statistics are very difficult to find in a lot of countries, at least publicly, as they don't count or report mixed race marriages or perhaps even do that in vital statistics) and quoted some lines from it. That article was making that statement but didn't really have any statistic about those marriages out of the total, it was a statistic quoting the opposite percentages (percentages of blacks that had white partners, not the percentage those relationships are of the total). Actually, it isn't even clear how they defined "relationships", so who knows. I don't think MP made any larger claim at all, in fact (unless it has been erased), I believe Alec did.

I believe I have read that out of the total marriages in England, less than 2 pct are interracial. It is a lot higher than that in the US, more like 5-10 pct.

I have worked not only in marketing research, but demography and statistics, and as I said, those numbers are hard to get from European countries. I can't quote figures, but I think they are more common in the US than in Europe, at least Italy for sure. And as for the comment that Germany as a lot of immigrants. Well, that can mean anything, as a lot of them are white, also. Now if that was really supposed to be a term that meant black/African/Asian or whatever, it should have said so, but I have seen stats from the French national statistics agency, for example, and the majority of immigrants to France are from other European countries, not Africa. Africa is second, of course, but immigrants from Africa to France are smaller in number than from Europe. Germany is a lot different in ways regarding race than Italy, in my experience, also, and I don't think Italy has as many immigrants as a lot of other countries in Europe.

Saying a country is diverse in terms of population is different to me than saying there are more biracial marriages/couples/families in Europe than the US, notably Italy. Especially saying it was "far more common" in Europe. I don't think so, but have never seen any data to support that statement and would be willing to look at it if there were some. The US has very good data on things like that which is published by the NCHS and Census, etc., but some other countries won't publish stuff like that (France won't even count it, I believe).

Hi I'm Indian and my DH is a very pale Scot. Never had any hassle travelling in Europe esp Italy & Greece. Not been to any former Yugoslav states so can't help.

We were surprised that we managed to stop conversation in restaurants in Dubai but that may have been because htey thought I was from the Middle East.

I wouldn't put it on the list of things to worry about. We travel a lot and find that people respond to us the same everywhere. The type of people who think something of us as a couple seem to exist everywhere but are far outweighed by those who are decent folks regardless of where we all are.

I wouldn't worry about that.
There might be some people (mostly older) that look at you a bit odd, but it's just because they are not used to that.
But nothing violent in any way.
You just enjoy your holiday in eitheir of those countries and forget about it.

What I was saying was that there is more acceptance of mixed-race relationships in Europe (esp those countries with significant non-white population, like France, UK etc) than in US, taking into account racial demographics. I'm not talking about statistical studies, but a general public perception. For example, the fact that one of your leading football stars, OJ Simpson, married a white girl caused quite a stirr at that time (I'm not referring to subsequent murder trial), while many black football (soccer) stars in UK and France have married or live in stable relationship across racial lines and have hardly caused a rippple of reaction.
So the OP should have no fear of any unpleasant reaction in Europe. Of course racists and bigoted people exist everywhere, but generally speaking, interracial relationship is so common that it would hardly be noticed or give rise to adverse reaction - other than ignorant stares from some.

> For example, the fact that one of your leading football stars, OJ Simpson, married a white girl caused quite a stirr at that time (I'm not referring to subsequent murder trial), while many black football (soccer) stars in UK and France have married or live in stable relationship across racial lines and have hardly caused a rippple of reaction.<

#1 OJ Simpson hasn't been a football star in the US since the 1970's.

#2 I don't think anyone in the US knew OJ had married a white WOMAN--not a girl, sweetie darling--until the murder trial--which was what 14 years ago???????????

>What I was saying was that there is more acceptance of mixed-race relationships in Europe (esp those countries with significant non-white population, like France, UK etc) than in US, taking into account racial demographics. I'm not talking about statistical studies, but a general public perception.<

If you can't site statistics or studies than what you have written above is just an opinion.

Your perception is not my perception.

You obviously don't read Jane Austin.

Thin

Cries_Van_Notebook

Your perception isn't my perception, either, and a lot of people I know and live with. Statistically sound? I don't know. But borne out by personal experience? Certainly! And this is what counts, when someone asks a travel forum. No one can guarantee anything, but one can certainly cite probability and likelihood, from greater personal experience.

Going back to the OP. Very unlikely to be any real hassle in these countries. Very unlikely to be any real staring (these guys have TV and everything) no not sure of statistics of tV ownership etc etc.

You will also find that in Italy children are enjoyed in public and welcome in restaurants, for historical reasons you should have similar positive issues in the other countries, though I note that some Northern European countries are brought up to believe that children should be seen and not heard.

Now back to the nut-hatch

The OP posted this weeks ago. It is obvious she isn't coming back to answer.

I don't know why this was dragged to the top


I misspelled Jane Bloody Austen. 40 lashes pour moi.

Thin

We are white parents who've traveled extensive with our black son, now 16. The answer is ... you can encounter uncomfortable stuff anywhere.

We got some real vicious looks from an old guy in an Athens subway. We've had Greeks and Danes tell us that most Europeans would not consider an interracial adoption. We've picked up strange looks in the U.S. and I've had a redneck U.S. shopkeeper blatantly bird dog my son when similar white kids ran a muck ... not knowing the boy was my straight-arrow kid. (The perspective you get watching people deal with your child when they don't know you're the parent is always enlightening and too often sobering.) We were a bit concerned about China but had absolutely no trouble there. Nowhere abroad have we felt threatened.

But, all in all, my son who has visited Italy, Greece, UK, China and Australia plus 40 states has had his worst racial experiences in the good ol' USA, including in one of the top school systems of one of the nation's most "progressive" states.

repete - it's not that most Europeans would not consider an interracial adoption; they used to be quite common but are now not an option in the UK as it is felt to be better for the children to be adopted by a family of their own race/religion/culture.

Whether that's always a good thing or not is moot...yes it's the ideal but it does mean some children wait a long time while their social workers are hunting for a couple who have a mix of all 4 Irish/Japanese/Ghanian/Italian backgrounds, for example.

Not to hijack this thread to a debate on transracial adoption but that's not really the case. There are still transracial adoptions in the UK.

Our experience with Europeans, including some involved in public health in Greece and Denmark, talked more about the "stigma" than the actual challenges of raising a child of another race.

An interesting story from the UK:
http://ncane.com/kh3b

Indeed, here are the current guidelines from the BAAF:

"What this means in practice is that vigorous efforts are made to find a family that reflects the child’s individual identity. Given the profile of prospective adopters, this is not always achievable. In these instances, social workers will have to make a decision about when to consider alternative families in order to minimise delay for the child. Children would then be placed with families that best match most of their needs, even if this means they are of a different ethnic group."

>But, all in all, my son who has visited Italy, Greece, UK, China and Australia plus 40 states has had his worst racial experiences in the good ol' USA, including in one of the top school systems of one of the nation's most "progressive" states.<

That's because you and your son LIVE in the US. 5 days in Greece really can't compare.

When I was at the Beijing Zoo in 2000, people tapped me on the shoulder to get a photo. I was the first white person they had ever seen. I was more popular than the pandas.

Thin

Still trying to rubbish people's personal experience?
Grow up - other people's experience is as valid as your own opinion!

I know, and have seen, many families in France that adopted children from Africa. I think that in some ways, that's more common and more accepted than it is in the States. Having said that, people are going to stare and make comments about anything that seems unusual to them at the time. As a blue-eyed blonde, I also had people put their children in front of me to take a picture in China. It was as if I was a giraffe strolling down the street- something out of the ordinary. My colleague was told many times in China that he was fat- but in admiring way, as in, "you must be rich to be able to afford so much food." You have to be careful about interpreting looks and even comments as negative, when they may be admiring, or just casual.

Alec: "Biracial/multiracial families are far more common in Europe than in US, so it's not a novelty."

Sorry, Alec, but you presented that information as if it were a verified FACT, not merely your perception.

As an American living in Europe, I find no real difference. In either place, most people are more concerned with their own lives.

And Thin is also right, there is a big difference between what you notice on a brief holiday and what you see living somewhere.

Alec, sorry but Thin is right about OJ. In all honesty I never knew OJ had a white wife until the murder trial. Not only did his interracial marriage NOT cause a stir, my DH and I never saw it in news or tabloids. Before the murder my DH was a major fan of OJ and followed his career, yet he knew nothing about OJ's wife because it just wasn't important. And by no means is OJ the only black celeb to marry white, it is really quite common whether a person is famous or not.

There is so much interracial marriage in the US today, I just don't know anyone who finds it shocking. And BTW, I live in the South.

And once again, my dad and stepmom are an bi-racial couple. Even living in the South there are no problems, not even funny stares.

Etonmymind,

From my own personal experiences you have little to worry about UNLESS you happen to run into a few of the people ON THIS THREAD!!!!

Gosh I love the intellectually dishonest folks here who make assumptions and spew them as facts.

Cries: "That's because you and your son LIVE in the US. 5 days in Greece really can't compare."

I was in Greece for more than a month.

If you can't debate without fiction, please leave the discussion.

Repete, a month is a fairly brief holiday compared to living somewhere for years. Overall, you're still skimming the surface.

Dukey - you hit the nail on the head!

>If you can't debate without fiction, please leave the discussion.<

ROFL!!!!

Me leave??? That is side-splitting. I have been posting here for 10 years--probably the most famous poster on this travel site--not to mention quoted in multiple Fodor's Guides--and you want ME to leave???

How was I supposed to know you were in Greece for a month?? You didn't put that in your response. I am many things, sweetie darling, but I am not a mind reader.

I am sure the people of Hellas will be grateful to know that you can assess their culture after being in the country for a whole month.

Maybe you can arrange the the return of the Elgin Marbles.

Thin

>>>you have little to worry about UNLESS you happen to run into a few of the people ON THIS THREAD!!!!<<<

It is not that bad. In real life, they are harmless. Cries_Van_Notebook-Proenza Preschooler-Marginal Margiela-Thingorjus is just a balding, slightly overweight guy who likes to provoke a bit.

ROARING WITH LAUGHTER.

I am NOWHERE NEAR being bald.

I have more hair than David Hasselhof.

And I do Pilates and tae-bo three times a week. I am not overweight.

YOU haven't got a clue.

Thin