nanael

I am hoping to get some insight re a part of an extended trip to Spain.
We will be arriving from Porto, Portugal and have allowed a 2 1/2weeks to this section of our travels.
I am hoping to get some help with the logistics - Will rent a car to do the "outskirts" of Madrid but do not want/need a car in Madrid proper.
Madrid (4 nights?).
We wish to visit Salamanca, Avila, Toledo, Caceres, Segovia, Cuenca... other suggestions (why not, we are already overwhelmed with info).
These all look very interesting to us from reading our many tour books (mind boggling, really!).
We do not know the roads of course and love to meander BUT would like to not spend all our time doing just that. I like a couple night stays, minimum in a particular spot.

We love the history, the castles, cathedrals, monasteries, FOOD, and are hoping to experience a less touristy side of Spain.
Thank you.

Robert2533

Cáceres is in Extremadura, not Castile-León, and a little bit of a hike from Madrid. Cuenca and Toledo are in Castile–La Mancha, but an easy train ride away for both.

Ávila, Salamanca and Segovia are in Castile and León and can reached by rail, or you can drive.

ribeirasacra

You do not say if you are travelling by train or bus or even if you are willing to go to Madrid first then head to other locations.
Are you still planning to travel with your 8 year old grand son?

nanael

I thought I mentioned we plan on driving ... starting in Madrid and returning car to Madrid before taking train to Barcelona.
Yes, will be traveling with the grandson but that segment is Catalunya for 3 weeks.

ribeirasacra

you was asking about public transport in your last thread hence the conformation to me was needed. So there is a gap in your questions about what to see and do I can understand that now.
Have you read about the electronic tolls in Portugal?

From Portugal you can take several routes into Spain.
If you take the route along the Douro you will find
Bragança,Zamora, Toro, Benavente then head towards Madrid via Salamanca, Ávila‎. If you do your research well then you will find many hidden treasures along the way. Just do not take the highway and take time to discover by pulling off the route if you feel intrigued.
If you follow the border, with Spain, you will encounter many fortresses.

joannyc

I'd do it in this order:

Train from Madrid to Toledo - 3 or 4 nights (with a day trip to Consuegra to see the windmills)
Upon leaving Toledo, pick up rental car
Drive to Caceres - ? nights, I've never been there Drive to Salamanca - 4 nights
Drive to Avila - 1 or 2 nights (there are things to see outside the walled city)
Drive to Segovia - 2 nights
Drive to Madrid and return rental car - 5 nights
Day trip by train from Madrid to Cuenca

You could pick up your rental car the day before leaving Toledo at the EuropCar location in Toledo and do the day trip to Consuegra, then leave the rental car overnight in the free parking lot near the bus station and take the bus back into Toledo. Next day, take a taxi with your luggage back to the rental car.

Have a great trip!

joannyc

Sorry... somehow lost a carriage return:

Train from Madrid to Toledo - 3 or 4 nights (with a day trip to Consuegra to see the windmills and castle)

Upon leaving Toledo, pick up rental car

Drive to Caceres - ? nights, I've never been there

Drive to Salamanca - 4 nights

Drive to Avila - 1 or 2 nights (there are things to see outside the walled city)

Drive to Segovia - 2 nights

Drive to Madrid and return rental car - 5 nights

Day trip by train from Madrid to Cuenca

You could pick up your rental car the day before leaving Toledo at the EuropCar location in Toledo and do the day trip to Consuegra, then leave the rental car overnight in the free parking lot near the bus station and take the bus back into Toledo. Next day, take a taxi with your luggage back to the rental car.

Have a great trip!

nanael

Thanks joannyc - sounds great! My husband thinks so too - and he will do most of the driving ...

nanael

Thanks for the heads up ribeirasacra - I know nothing about traveling in Portugal, yet.
We usually avoid highways if we are not rushed to get to the next destination.
Amazingly, our 90 day trip to the Iberian Peninsula does not seem long enough - I wish we could extend our stay!!! The route you describe sounds wonderful.
I find that renting a car in one country and returning it to another is much more expensive so we are thinking of flying from Porto into Madrid.

dorianb

Driving in Spain is very easy and the roads (large and small)are wonderful and easy to drive on. I would suggest taking along a Garmin(or something similar if you have one) and a Michelin map for the area you will be covering. You also will need an international driver's license--car rental agencies don't ask for one, but if you get stopped by the police, they will want to see it. (We know this from experience.)Segovia, Avila, Salamanca and Toledo all have beautiful cathedrals and buildings and are worth visiting and spending at least a couple of days in. The aquaduct in Segovia is outstanding. There are castles sprinkled all over Castile & Leon, but keep in mind most are closed on Monday. Some you can't even get into, but they are worth a visit because the exteriors are beautiful. Segovia and the area around it is known for delicious roasted baby pig, and Avila is known for its giant T-bone steaks. Have a great trip!

Robert2533

There is no such thing as an international driver's license. It's an IDP, International Driving Permit, issued by AAA and CAA, and is now required by Spanish law. And yes, some agencies have been asking for it before they will give you your rental car.

thursdaysd

But note that the IDP is not valid on its own. You need the underlying license as well.

Christina

Yes, that's why it isn't a "license" and why it isn't correct to call it that.

joannyc

You're welcome, nanael. Hope you enjoy Spain as much as I do!

I'm a solo female traveler and always rent cars. Driving is easy in Spain. Just don't get a large car, I typically rent a compact or subcompact which makes it easier to drive through some of the narrow streets in the smaller towns and makes it a lot easier to park in the tiny parking spaces! ��

nanael

Hello all,
I am very grateful for all your input! We have driven throughout Europe quite a bit and are very familiar with the IDP - wish we didn't have to renew it every year!
Dorianb- thanks for the tidbits. I have continued to read and am very anxious to be in that area of Spain. A question about the Garmin: I have an older model which worked beautifully for a couple of trips. I updated it last trip - not sure if it ran out of memory, or I just didn't do something right - but it failed me on our last trip! I will try to contact Garmin for info or just break down and buy another one (so wasteful these electronic gadgets we can't live without!). But it was awesome when it did work right
We have pretty much planned out the first 4-5 weeks of our trip. I will run it by all you experts when we are more sure of it all - so you can either tell us it will work, or ...
joannyc: we were stuck with a large car in Germany 6 years ago and swore never again - very unnerving on those little streets - more than once I got out of the car to "direct".. Then I traveled with kids and grandkids and "leased" a VW wagon that sat 7! Although it was big - not as wide as the Peugeot in Germany.
About 4 days in Salamanca: would 2 do it? I might be able to allot 3 ...

kja

"About 4 days in Salamanca: would 2 do it? I might be able to allot 3 ..." I spent 2 VERY full days in Salamanca -- on the move from the time I got up until a late dinner (no lunch) both days. Whether you can get by with 3 or 4 days depends on what YOU want to see and do. Check a good guidebook or two and then lay things out on a day-planner, with attention to the LONG hours of mid-day closure that most places will have.

joannyc

kja gives good advice about reviewing a few guide books and laying out what you want to see.

This was my Salamanca itinerary:

* Plaza Mayor - Spain's grandest plaza, full of activity and people watching. Best people watching time is Sunday 1pm - 3pm. Considered to be the grandest plaza in Spain. Built 1729-1755. Town hall clock tower overlooks the square

* Great photo op from under the covered arcade by a café across the plaza with the belltower/steeple in the far background at night!

* Casa de las Conchas - The House of the Shells was built at the end of the 15th century in the Gothic style, but it has Renaissance and Mudejar elements. Its mixture of styles is called Isabelline. The person who had the palace built was Rodrigo Arias de Maldonado, who was a Knight of the Order of Santiago. There are over three hundred shells covering its outer walls, the shell being the symbol of the Order of Santiago. The building suffered cracks in the 18th century, so it had to be remodeled and the upper parts do not have shells because of this. There is a Gothic coat of arms with lilies (fleur de lis) above the entrance door, which was the Maldonado coat of arms. The coat of arms also appears on the walls and around the windows, and these are supported by angels, sirens, lions, or wreathed in laurel. There is a beautiful patio in the interior, which has two floors. The arches are supported by beautiful pillars and columns. The building contains the Provincial Library today.

* Arco del Toro- Built into eastern wall leads to the covered market

* Cathedrals - Old and New. Old is 12c Romanesque, both richly ornate. New built 1513-1733 is spacious, towering mix of Goth, Ren, and Baroque. To get to the Old, you have to walk thru the New. See R. Steve's Self-Guilded Tour, page 339

* Capilla de Santa Barbara - Cloister adjacent to the Cathedral Viega (Old Cathedral) Where students were quizzed while touching the tomb of a bishop for luck. Exam results were made public and townspeople waited outside to pelt with rubbish those who failed.

* University -Oldest in Spain, Columbus came here for travel tips. See R. Steve's Self-Guided Tour, page 341.
Downstairs in historic lecture halls, Hebrew scholar Fray Luis de Leon, after 5 yrs in prisons of Inquisition, began his first lecture with "As we were saying...". Look for the frog! Established 1230, old lecture halls around the cloister where many of Spain's Golden Age heroes studied are open to the public. The Inquisition put an end to the university's reputation as a haven for new ideas and free thinkers during Felipe II's reign Spanish students were forbidden to study abroad.

* Church of San Esteban (Monestario de San Esteban)- Sounds like a must see! Cloisters - good photo op! Dedicated to St. Steven. See R. Steve's Self-Guided Tour, page 342. Contains recently restored cloister, tombs, museum, sacristy, and church.

* Convento de las Duenas - Located next door to Church of San Esteban. This much simpler convento is a joy consisting of a double-decker cloister w/ small museum of relieous art (page 343). Check out the stone meanies decorating the capitals on the cloister's upper deck. English booklet is available for E1.50 ***Nuns sell sweets daily except Sunday (E4.50 for small box of amarguillos)***

* Roman Bridge ( Puente Romano)- Low slung Roman bridge (Puente Romano) much of it is original spanning the Rio Tormes. The iberico (ancient pre-Roman) faceless bull blindly guards the entrance to bridge; you'll find this symbol of Salamanca on every city coat of arms in town.
The Roman Bridge was built in the 1st century A.D. during the reign of Marcus Ulpius Traianus. The bridge crosses the Tormes River and has 26 semicircular arches, with strong pillars. The measurements of the bridge are 176 meters long by 3.7 meters wide. The bridge was part of the Via de la Plata Roman road that went from Merida to Astorga. There is a sculpture of a male pig or boar beside the bridge that was created by the Celts and is shown over the shield of the city. The bridge is open only for pedestrians. In 1931 the bridge was declared a national monument.

* Tuna Music - Musical groups of students dressed in traditional black capes and leggings sing and strum mandolins and guitars

* Mercardo (market)- Covered market on Plaza Mercado, on east side of Plaza Mayor

* Convent Sweets in Salamanca - Buying their sweets will help their convents and tourists can try something completely Spanish. The procedure for buying the sweets is very archaic, but very charming. You enter the convent to a very small room with a lazy Susan installed on the wall. You never see the nun with whom you do the transaction, since the nuns are cloistered and avoid direct contact with the public. On the wall beside the lazy Susan will be a pricelist. You look it over and decide which sweets you want to buy. Then you ring a buzzer on the wall. After a while you will hear the voice of a nun greet you and ask you what you want to buy. You tell her your order and after a few minutes the lazy Susan will turn and you will find your order on it. You then put your money on the lazy Susan and turn it so that the nun can get it. If there is change, the nun puts it on the lazy Susan and you then can get your change. The transaction is completely based on trust

* San Marcos Church - Romanesque building has a circular floor plan and was built in the 11th century, although the date is uncertain. It was built on the orders of Count Raimundo de Borgoña and his wife Doña Urraca, daughter of King Alfonso VI. What is known is that in 1202 the church was completely built when King Alfonso IX turned it over to the Clerecia, priests from Salamanca. The steeple is Baroque. There are three naves that end in a semicircular apse. There are 14th century Gothic paintings of scenes from the life of the Virgin Mary. In 1967 the church was restored to return it to a purely Romanesque church.

* San Martín Church - built in the 12th century by the Count Martin Fernandez on top of an old chapel for St. Peter. The building is considered one of the best examples of Romanesque architecture in Spain. The floor plan is rectangular, with three naves and three apses. The columns have capitals decorated with acanthus leaves, plain leaves, and allegorical figures. The Romanesque south portal is decorated with archivolts. One niche shows a relief of St. Martin sharing his tunic with a pauper. The high altarpiece was made by Alberto de Churriguera in 1731. One of the impressive tombs belongs to Pedro de Santiesteban and the choir is also noteworthy.

* Palace of Monterrey - This palace was ordered built by Alonso de Acevedo, the third Count of Monterrey and Viceroy of Naples, in 1539. It is one of the most important Spanish Renaissance buildings. The architects were Rodrigo Gil de Hontañon, the Dominican Martin de Santiago, and Pedro de Ibarra. The most impressive feature of the building is the Plateresque decoration of the towers. The third floor windows are decorated with Corinthian columns. Only the outside of the building can be seen, since it is a private property owned by the Duchess of Alba.

* Photo Op of Salamanca from the Parador hotel across the Roman Bridge! Gorgeous!

* Great photo op of Salamanca - complete w/ river reflection, stop at the edge of the city (at the light before the first bridge)

* Daytrip to Zamora

* Can I squeeze in the time for Leon or is it too far???

* On Way to Segovia - LA GRANJA, 15 minutes from Segovia

nanael

I appreciate this so much - I did not think of the impact on sightseeing of the siesta!
So this is how I have penciled this portion of our trip so far:

Madrid (5 nights)
Segovia (2) Would it be easier to pick rental car up here rather than Madrid?
Salamanca (3)
Avila (1)
Toledo (2)
Cuenca (2)
Barcelona (12) - daughter and grandchild will be joining us
Costa Brava (4)

And yes, I too plan our days fully. My husband often says we need a vacation from the vacation - but since he will be retired next year ...
Our last rip I had lined up private Tour guides in Pesky Krumlov and Prague which were wonderful. 3 adults and it seemed reasonably priced. More homework.

ribeirasacra

So no Portugal, and little Castile and León.
Certainly every location which has been covered before on this forum.

kja

"I did not think of the impact on sightseeing of the siesta!" -- it can make a HUGE difference anywhere in Spain. Also note that many things will be closed on Mondays. If you want to be sure of seeing something, be sure to check its hours as carefully as you can in advance.

"Segovia (2) Would it be easier to pick rental car up here rather than Madrid?" - You don't need a rental car for anything except, perhaps, the Costa Brava, and there, it would depend on what you want to see and do. If you choose to use a rental car, make sure you have explored options for parking, as some of these places are not car-friendly.

Have you considered putting Barcelona at the end of your trip? For one thing, you do NOT need a car for Barcelona. For another, if you are flying out of Barcelona, you might prefer to be there the night before your flight, and if so, it might be nice to avoid an extra change of hotels.