courtneyclv

Hi everyone,
My husband and I will have 9 full days in Europe (i am not counting our travel time)
We are hoping to visit 4 different countries, and maybe two cities in Italy. We arrive in London and then depart in London.

I have looked online at the train passes and it is SOOOO confusing! I am not sure what to get... Where do I start? I know that we want to take some day trains (like to London to Paris) and will have to take some overnight trains (like from Paris to Venice)

Please help before my head explodes!

Courtney

tuscanlifeedit

This is not achievable, in my opinion.

9 days are not enough to visit four countries.

Are your air tickets purchased? If so, I would land in London and head directly, without stopping, to another location. That way you can finish in London without back tracking.

If the air isn't yet purchased, do an open jaws itinerary, landing in one city, departing from another.

There has been a lot of recent discussion about over night trains Paris > Venice. I think a search here will help clarify that this is not an easy trip to plan.

For most short trips (9 days would fit that category) a rail pass isn't a good bet.

May I suggest that you divide your time between 2 cities, or at the most, 3, and those 3 should not be in 3 different countries?

Jean

With nine full days, I'd visit only two cities. I don't sleep well on trains, so travelling overnight Paris to Venice (with probably 6-8 stops, maybe more) wouldn't appeal to me, and I'd probably do London and Paris.

The idea of hitting four countries in 9 nine days just isn't realistic unless you want to spend the entire trip sitting on trains. Where else were you thinking of going? Have you looked at train timetables to see how long the journeys are?

greg

You can decide yourself if you "can/cannot", "want to/don't want to" by entering the train routes and see how long it takes to travel between destinations.

Use this site:

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

For all I know, you can be train nuts and what you are trying to do might make sense and matches your objectives...

flanneruk

There's no law saying you can't get something useful out of visiting four countries in nine days, or even that you can't if you insist on using trains all the time. If that really is what you want to do, do it.

But you really MUST start at the right end of the stick. Abd that really involves putting first things first:

1. Work out, roughly, what you think you want to do.
2. Then look at the logistics of this, using www.bahn.de/i/view/GBR/en/index.shtml for train times and www.whichbudget.com as a starter for flight options.
3. Remember it takes hours to get to and from airports, abnd even travelling by train involves substantial downtime getting to and from hotels
4. Then and only then start worrying about whether passes make more sense than trip by trip tickets

You'll almost certainly then conclude that four countries is a ridiculous target. But, after doing this exercise, you'll certainly conclude that heads always explode if you don't do things in an organised way.

StCirq

If you think your head is exploding now, just wait until you try to execute this plan.

Nikki

No wonder your head is exploding! Listen to your head, it is telling you something. You are trying to a fistful of square pegs into one round hole.

First you should figure out where you really want to go and how much time you want to spend in each place and how much time it takes to get between them. Frequently flying is more convenient and inexpensive than trains within Europe, although betwen London and Paris the train is the most convenient.

If the logistics of doing this turn out to be too complicated, make your list shorter. Repeat until your head makes you feel excited rather than overwhelmed.

If you have not yet purchased your plane tickets, you should look into buying open jaw tickets (available on most sites as something like "multiple destinations"). Fly to London, then fly home from your last destination. This is usually not more expensive than flying round trip to a single destination, and it saves time backtracking.

ira

Hi CC,

>9 full days in Europe (i am not counting our travel time)
We are hoping to visit 4 different countries, and maybe two cities in Italy.<

I think that you have been reading too many trvel brochures and/or have watched "If it's Tuesday, It Must be Belgium" too often.

Each time you change venues you lose at least 1/2 day. Thus, about days of your time will be spent moving from place to place.

You have enough time to visit
London and surroundings, or
London and either Scotland or Wales, or
London and Paris.

Enjoy your greatly reduced itinerary.

Langcraft

You shouldn't treat 9 days in Europe as if it were your own personal version of the Amazing Race...

See London, then perhaps head north toward the Midlands, the Lake District etc. Trying to see 4 countries will be exhausting and ultimately self defeating.

scotty09

You are very fortunate that someone has already done all your rail planning for you...the Man in Seat 61, http://seat61.com/

Surfergirl

You could certainly do this plan if you were starting on the continent rather than London, but with the under the channel crossing, it could be done. You've mentioned England, France and Italy. What is the fourth country you were thinking about? Switzerland, perhaps? Belgium? Scotland?

Greg's link is a good one to start sorting out your trip. You don't have to put in the exact dates you want to travel -- just plug in something a month from now to get the hang of it and see about times. Since you're planning on using a rail pass (good idea here, I think), there's a lot of options, but if it's confusing, you should speak to an agent who not only sells the passes, but is knowledgeable about them. Many are NOT. If you are under 26, get the youthrail pass, that's the best deal. Otherwise, because there's two of you going, get the saver pass. Problem is it doesn't work for England, so you'd have to get separate tickets for that.

Man in Seat 61 is also an excellent resource; I've used his site often over the years.

laurie_ann

Another good resource for European train travel is the Rick Steves website. They will email you rail maps which can help you with routes and times. Access through the rail portion of their website: http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/rail_menu.htm

courtneyclv

Hi everyone,
Thank you for your advice. We arrive in London late on a Wednesday, 11pm, and are staying at a hotel at the Heathrow airport. Then we have these days..

Thursday- Leave Heathrow and take Paddington train to London

Friday- London/stay near heart of city

Saturday- Train to Paris/ hotel reserved near Eiffel Tower

Sunday- Paris

Monday Paris

Tuesday Train to Amsterdam/maybe stop in Belgium

Wednesday Amsterdam/stay in a Bed and Breakfast

Thursday Amsterdam

Friday Take an overnight train to London or flight, take the Piccadilly back to Heathrow

Saturday- Depart London at 4pm

We want to visit London, Paris, and Amsterdam. We know that Italy is way to far and will stay in a circle.

What about this itinarary?

RebeccaHWA

Hi Courtneyclv, Hope you have a lovely holiday. We are off to Europe in June/July and I have received so much good advice on here. Whatever you do you won't have enough time. The reason we are doing it mostly on our own this time is as people have said "oh its Tuesday it must be....." London is fantastic and you only have one day and a bit of your last day. There is so much to see there. Someone suggested just London and Paris. I suppose it depends where you are flying from. Make it simple and enjoy. We have taken several items off our trip and we are going for 4 weeks. Time to enjoy the world go by. I want to sit in a French cafe and watch the people. It is easy to plan on paper but we often can't walk straight up to a venue and get in. Goodluck. It is so exciting planning.

courtneyclv

Hi Rebecca, Yes, we want to see london..but its not our priority. My husband and I do like to relax, but love to explore and find things off the beaten path. I was going to attempt to do 4 places, I am hoping the others on this forum think my 3 will be good.

tuscanlifeedit

Courtney, I think you have done the right thing in eliminating Italy from your plan.

I also think you can fit in a bit more London without making any big changes.

You could easily take the Eurostar from Amsterdam to London and get to London in the afternoon. There are several trains and they require one change, well timed for the traveler.

You could then spend at least Friday evening and part of Saturday, at the least the morning, before heading to Heathrow.

Even if London isn't a priority, it is a whole lot better than overnight trains and airport hotels.

courtneyclv

Hi tuscan,
Thank you for your advice. My husband and I are going to stay a couple of days in London after we get there from Heathrow..I mean, we are going to be on a plane overnight and then another connection flight..no need to hurry to Paris in the morning. Then, just like you suggested, take a train in the afternoon from Amsterdam to London, a day or two before we head to Heathrow.

I see the timetables online of the Eurostar to different cities, but am not sure if those times include stops. so...
How long, total, is a train ride to get from Paris to Amsterdam and then Amsterdam to London on the Eurostar?

thanks!
Courtney

laurie_ann

Courtney, your itinerary sounds great now. It is one I would recommend for first timers to Europe, each of the three cities is quite different and if you are happy to just hit a select few sights and experiences in each city you will have satisfactory time in each one.

But, I think you would be just as happy not staying at Heathrow on either end of your trip.

It is not too expensive (about 30 pounds) to get a car service to central London hotel that first evening even if you arrive late and then you will at least sleep in the same bed each night in London. I have done that late arrival both ways, staying in town and staying at the airport and there not any savings in comfort or convenience really to justify staying out at the airport. The car service I have used in London and many others on this board is www.justairports.com.

If your order of cities is set, I would fly from Amsterdam to London. The train is great for London to Paris and Paris to Amsterdam but not all that speedy or convenient on that last trip back Amsterdam to London. If you want to see London the last day of your trip again, great, but far easier would be to plan to fly from Amsterdam to London on the same day you are leaving Europe. That is if you have already booked your flight and so don't want to schedule going directly home from Amsterdam on an "open jaw" ticket.

courtneyclv

Thanks for the fast reply! Yes, we don't want to stay in Heathrow..but are not arriving our first day until 11pm! We are just crashing there then will head to London the next day. I will look into the car service, if it runs that late..and we can just check in at midnight or so....

I did just look up train costs from Amsterdam to London..about $400 or more for two people, plus a stop or two.
I will look up a one way flight from Amsterdam to London and see how cost and time efficient that is...


Courtney

suze

I think the new itinerary looks very good.

That last day I'd just fly Amsterdam directly to Heathrow, in plenty of time to catch the flight home. You already would have had your "london time" at the start of the trip.