Cindi

We are planning a 10 day trip to Italy (with 10 days in Spain too) and I need some advise on train travel. I am planning on purchasing the Italy railpass and am confused on what trains/lines it applies to as well as if/when all the different supplements are applied. For example, with the railpass, will we need to pay a supplement on the overnight express train between Napoli and Venice? Also what type of trains are used with the pass - are there any restrictions? Any clarification would be appreciated. <BR> <BR>We are also planning to take a train from Genova to Nice, France - spend almost a day there and take an overnight train to Barcelona. How much is this with a sleeping bunk and what type of trains are available. Thanks.

Paulo

What's your planned train itinerary in Italy? How many days will you be travelling by train? Are you travelling 1st or 2nd class? I'm asking because there's a chance that a pass is not recommended in your case (at least on what regards Italy). <BR> <BR>Regarding the Napoli-Venice overnight express train you won't be paying any supplements. There'll be a small reservation fee and, of course, you'll have to pay for your sleeping births (don't ask me how much those cost, though <BR> <BR>Paulo <BR> <BR>

Ben Haines

Fodors <BR> <BR>The supplement for a berth in a 6-berth couchette compartment is 20 US dollars a person, for a berth in a 3-berth sleeper compartment with washbasin is 60 dollars, for a two berth (in a so-called T2 compartment) 80 dollars, and for a single compartment (first class) is 130 dollars. Railpass holders do pay these supplemens, usually in full. <BR> <BR>The reference library of a city near you may have the Thomas Cook European Timetable. Table 620 shows your Italian train. <BR> <BR>The standard journey is Naples Central 1930, Venice Santa Lucia 0555. Rail fares are cheap in Italy, so you might like to buy a day-return ticket Venice Trieste Venice, stay asleep right through Venice, wake about seven, quit the train at Trieste at 0731, buy a portable breakfast, leave Trieste at 0750 and reach Venice Santa Lucia at the more civilised hour of 1015. Or you could quit the Naples train at Monfalcone at 0707, breakfast in the station, leave it at 0734 on the Venezia Express, and reach Venice Santa Lucia at 0918. <BR> <BR>Nice to Barcelona by night involves a change at the Pyrenees. Table 90 has times. Until 6 July Nice 2218, Port Bou 0555 to 0654, Barcelona Sants. 0925. From 7 July to 28 August Nice 2315 Port Bou 0652 to 0710 (not Sundays), Barcelona Sants 0945. Sundays breakfast at Port Bou, then Port Bou 0810, Barcelona 1018. The night train until 6 July has 4-berth first class couchettes and 6-berth second class couchettes, but no sleepers. The train from 7 July has 6-berth couchettes, 2-berth T2 second class sleepers, and single berth first class sleepers. Supplements are as in Italy. <BR> <BR>The basic second class fare from Naples to Venice is 60 000 lira or 30 US dollars (which is why Paulo isn't at all sure you need a railpass there). The similar fare from Milan to Barcelona is 107 dollars, so from Nice it might be about 80 dollars. <BR> <BR>Please would you advise Paul and me as he asks ? And also please write again if I can help further. Welcome to Europe. <BR> <BR>Ben Haines, London <BR> <BR>

Cindi

Paulo...thanks for your reply. From what I've read so far, you offer tremendously helpful and informative advise. Here is a tentaive schedule: <BR> <BR>3 days in Rome. Evening/Late afternoon train from Rome to Sorrento. 2 nites/3 days in Sorrento. Train from Sorrento (Napoli) to Venice. 2 nites in Venice. Train from Venice to Florence. 3 nites in Florence with side trip to Pisa. Train from Florence to Cinque Terre area (La something?) and one nite there. Morning train to Genova and catch train to Nice, France. Take evening overnite train to Barcelona. <BR> <BR>So, we plan on using the rail pass for travel between destinations, as well as to popular sites around where we are staying. Is it worth it to buy the railpass? I think the 8 day pass is $200 and will become active the first day of use (probaly the trip from Rome to Sorrento). <BR> <BR>Your advise is appreciated! - Cindi

Paulo

Rome - Naples: 214 km <BR>Naples - Venice: 787 km <BR>Venice - Florence: 257 km <BR>Florence - CT - Genoa: 246 km <BR> <BR>This adds up to 1,504km. The Kilometric ticket would almost cover all your trip till Genoa (I doubt that they would mind the 8km in excess ... anyways, one of you may always get a single ticket from the last station before Genoa to Genoa). <BR> <BR>It looks like that the best deal in your case is to get one Kilommetric ticket for the both of you to get to Genoa and separate tickets from there to Nice. The 1st class kilometric ticket costs Lit 338,000 if you get it overseas. Most probably, you'll be paying a supplement on the Rome-Naples and Venice-Florence trains. Except for a cabin on the Naples-Venice train, you shouldn't be paying supplements in the Florence-CT-Genoa segments. You'd also have to pay extra for seat reservations. <BR> <BR>Paulo <BR> <BR>

Cindi

Paulo... <BR>GRAZIE! So you think we would save money by buying 1 kilometric pass and purchasing supplements and reservations for the longer trips? What about the short trips like between Sorrento and Pompeii, Naples and Florence/Pisa? Is it more cost effective to just buy single tickets for these commuter trips? I assume then, that the kilometric pass apply to the express trains and we just pay extra for the sleeping bunks? <BR> <BR>Since I am a born and raised Californian with little knowledge of public transportation systems, I am a complete idiot at this so pardon my humble questions. Also, should I make reservations from the states or from Italy a few days before the days we want to travel.

Paulo

From Naples to Sorrento, including Pompeii Scavi, you'd have to take the Circumvesuviana line (which has nothing to do with the FS and therefore is not covered by the pass. <BR> <BR>Between Florence and Pisa the distance is 80km. Unless you're planning to go from Florence to Pisa back and forth, this was already taken into account in the trip from Florence to CT and from CT to Genoa. If you visit Pisa on your way to the CT, the kilometric ticket will be good for all your travelling except the Naples-Sorrento-Naples piece. To be strict (I don't know if there's an allowance over the 3,000 km) you may have to buy a single ticket (for one of you) from Camogli to Genoa (you may buy this in the CT; one of you would use the pass staright to Genoa and the other only to Camogli). If you plan to do Pisa back and forth to Florence, you either buy separate tickets or you use the pass. In the latter, you'd have to pay for single tickets from the CT to Genoa for both of you. <BR> <BR>As informed, you'll have to pay for supplements only from Rome to Naples (about Lit 20,000/30,000 if you take the ES and Lit 10,000/15,000 if you take the IC train) and from Venice to Florence (about Lit 25,000/35,000 when taking the ES and Lit 15,000/25,000 when taking the IC). The night train from Naples to Venice is an Express, and chances are that you won't take an IC train from Florence to Pisa and/or the CT, and from the CT to Genoa. <BR> <BR>Paulo <BR> <BR>PS. Buy the kilometric ticket at the American Express office in Rome. At the same time you may go about doing your reservations. <BR>

Maddy

I am mere days away from my trip! I have already received very good advice from this group (Paulo especially, thanks) about trains and other logistics. <BR> <BR>Our itinerary is Genova to Levanto; Vernazza to Firenze; Firenze to Venezia. <BR> <BR>But I still feel a bit confused and although I am sure we will figure it out once we arrive, just when does one pay supplements or other fees for various trains? Do I have to decide when I buy a ticket (a day or so in advance) exactly which train at which time, we will take (ES, or IC or, in the case of Cinque Terre IR, D) . There are so many choices on the schedules. With some trains only minutes apart we have many options and would like to know how flexible tickets are. <BR> <BR>Thanks for any further clarification.