StefanieBoyle

Hello! We are visiting Europe in July/August with our two children (5 & 12). We will visit London first followed by Paris, Venice and Rome. My husband was thinking of looking into a train from Paris to Rome via Munich and then Venice since we have some time. We would really like to see some of the country and definitely the Alps. My daughter is requesting gondola rides and lots of bridges so we will hopefully find a good route to Rome through there.

I'm also very interested in a steam train from London to Scotland. We would like to see the English country side and some Scottish castles. Probably only about 2 days spend total doing that. Any ideas?

PalenQ

If kiddo wants to see Alps at their awesome best go to Italy via Switzerland not Munich and maybe stay at a dreamy Alpine village in the Jungfrau Region - to me the very best place to easily experience this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=jung...w=1536&bih=760

toylike trains and aerial gondolas go off in all different directions-you can walk to glaciers and take a train to Europe's highest train station as a sea of ice and glaciers.

Near Interlaken check out some neat mountain village where you will be eyeball to eyeball with glacier-girdled soaring peaks from you hotel balcony. Wengen is one such village the delights families.

and right smack dab on a main route by train Paris to Venice or Milan.

anyway for tons of great info on trains all over Europe check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

I doubt if you'll find any steam train that goes all the way London to Scotland but in Scotland check out special steam trains over the West Highlands line -with Harry Potter associations.

janisj

How long do you have for this?

>>I'm also very interested in a steam train from London to Scotland. <<

There is no steam train between the two -- but there is a 'regular' train from central London to central Edinburgh.

And do you have several days (like a wee) for the journey from Paris to Rome? Because that is what you'd need for the Alps, Munich and Venice.

michelhuebeli

Probably the most awesome pretty rail journey traversing the alps down into Italy is the glacier express from Chur to St. Moritz then on to Tirano, and down to Milano by regional train and - by regular fast train - on to Venice - look it up!

A couple of nights near St. Moritz afe advised - not in town but nearby, Sils etc.

Look at Youtube videos and others, you will quickly see why I say "awesome"

StefanieBoyle

JanisJ - The train to Scotland is just a maybe. We have 21 full days to travel. Right now we are thinking about the following itinerary:

London - (7/19 - 7/24) 6 days/5 nights
Scotland - (7/24 - 7/26) 3 days/2 nights - maybe if it's affordable & makes since time wise
Paris - (7/26 - 7/31) 7 days/6 nights
Paris to Venice via train (7/31 - 8/1) - 2 days/1 night
Venice (8/1 - 8/3) - 3 days/2 nights
Rome (8/3 - 8/9) -8 days/7 nights

As you see we have a lot of time. I'm not sure how to spread it out. I have been to London and know what we would like to see with the kids so I am pretty set on the 5 nights there. I have never been outside of the UK so this is just the beginning planning stages. My son (5) loves trains, especially steam trains. My daughter (12) loves shopping, of course.

Thanks for the info, PalenQ - I will look into those!

neckervd

Daily steam trains in the Alps:
Brienz - Brienzer Rothorn (Switzerland)
St. Wolfgang - Schafberg (Austria)

You will not see much of the Alps if you just cross them by train,
either through the Mont Cenis Tunnel (Paris - Turin - Venice),
or through the Loetschberg- and Simplon tunnels (Paris - Basel - Berne - Venice; in all more than 60 kms of tunnels),
or through the 60 kms long Gotthard tunnel (Paris - Basel - Lucerne - Venice),
or over the Brenner Pass (Paris - Munich - Venice).

Leave the train somewhere in the Alps as suggested above and change to a mountain railway (Jungfrau area/Zermatt area if you travel via Basel, Stubaital if you travel via Munich) or cross the Alps by Bernina railway or by Swiss Postbus.

As an alternative, you could travel via Lausanne - Montreux (Chillon castle) - Martigny to Chatelard, enjoy the 4 different mountain railways to Emosson Dam,
http://verticalp-emosson.ch/en/
continue to Chamonix, go up to Brevent or Aiguille du Midi and then take a bus to Courmayeur - Aosta - Milan where you can board your Venice bound train.

janisj

>>As you see we have a lot of time. <<

Not really. Unfortunately you are 'mis-counting' your time. to get 6 days in a city requires 7 nights, not 5. What you really have is:

London - (7/19 - 7/23) 5 nights/4.5 days
Scotland - (7/24 - 7/25) 2 nights/1.5 days
Paris - (7/26 - 7/30) 5 nights/4.5 days
Paris to Venice via train (7/31 - 8/1) - 2 full days if you stop over anywhere
Venice (8/1 - 8/2) - 2 nights/1.5 days
Rome (8/3 - 8/8) - 6 nights/5.5 days (assuming you fly out on the 9th)

So it is doable but especially Scotland (even if you only do Edinburgh) and Venice are cut VERY short.

I would not bother w/ the train and fly from Paris to Venice and stay another night in Venice. And as much as I LOVE Edinburgh, I'd ditch that idea and att the time to London. With jetlag and logistics your 5 nights will barely give you 4 useable days for the largest city in Western Europe,

janisj

Or -- if the Alps are <B>REALLY</B> important -- cut Scotland and either Paris or Venice.

You really don't have time for 5 or 6 countries.

StefanieBoyle

You're very right - had days/nights flipped! Thanks for catching it.

I guess I didn't really have plans to do much, if any, site seeing in Scotland. Just more interested in the train ride. But if something has to go - then it will be Scotland. I will look into the train from Pairs to Venice through each route.

We don't fly out until the afternoon of the 10th but I wasn't counting that day.

PalenQ

There is an overnight train running between Paris and Venice for a unique (for most Americans) experience and also save travel time and the cost of a hotel (but no Alpine vistas though the Paris-Turin-Milan route is not that impressive - at least of what you may have of the high Alps you see around Interlaken or Zermatt.

spaarne

<i>StefanieBoyle on Jan 14, 17 at 1:17pm
London - (7/19 - 7/24) 6 days/5 nights
Scotland - (7/24 - 7/26) 3 days/2 nights - maybe if it's affordable & makes since time wise
My son (5) loves trains, especially steam trains.</i>

I suggest a couple nights in York. It is a good stop between London and Edinburgh. Your son will be impressed at the National Railway Museum. I was. And the York Minster cathedral is one of the most impressive structures in Europe. For an illustrated introduction to trains in Europe see http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm. Trains are more like planes these days. Steam engines are in the movies.

Paris to Venice is a loooong day on a train. Maybe consider breaking it up with an overnight, say Basel. Take an early TGV from Paris and enjoy a day and evening in this pleasant city.

PalenQ

Yeh I agree with janisj- cut the two days out of Scotland (or cut somewhere else and spend more time there) and put a few days into Switzerland- 3 days in say Wengen will really be a dream for the kids - much more than Scotland I dare say.

PalenQ

Wengen:

https://www.google.com/search?q=weng...HYuQAHsQsAQIGQ

There is also a steam train in the Interlaken area -take a boat ride on gorgeous Lake Brienz from Interlaken to Brienz and catch the Brienz Rothorn Bahn steam train to the top of a mountain!

https://www.google.com/search?q=brie...Hc7nABwQsAQIHA

kids will also love the iconic Swiss lake steamers on Lake Brienz:

https://www.google.com/search?q=lake...HboyB2MQsAQIGQ

janisj

I agree w/ Spaarne re York. And IME/IMO for a family York and Edinburgh would be more fun than a gawd awful looooong train ride from Paris to Venice.

Train London to York (2+ hours) -- visit the Railway museum (one of the two best in the world), the Jorvik Viking centre and the castle museum -- all will likely be highlights of the entire trip for your kids. Stay on night.

Then train to Edinburgh (2+ hours) and stay 2 nights. Then fly to Paris (1.5 hours). Then fly to Venice (1.5 hours) - train to Rome.

janisj

Should say >>Stay one night<< (in York)

PalenQ

visit the Railway museum (one of the two best in the world)>

Yes to that for kids and family - lots of hands-on stuff in addition to a slew of royal coaches, old trains, new trains - been there several times and yes kids love it and it's free!

York to me is one of the nicest cities in Britain -kids may also like walking on top of the ramparts that still circle much of the city and Bettys Cafe and Tea Rooms are legendary for a sweet treat.

Yes York is a great place for everyone.

PatrickLondon

You can get a ride on a steam train as a day out from London, even though the scenery is much less dramatic than in the Scottish Highlands (which would taken even longer to reach from Edinburgh, so that's perhaps best saved for a different trip).

Try the Bluebell Railway or the Watercress Line:

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/
http://www.watercressline.co.uk/
http://autolycus-london.blogspot.co....rain-sets.html

Morgana

Steam trains are definitely not just in the movies in this country as someone said above! Absolute nonsense. Our steam heritage is very much alive and well.
If you decide to stay in York for a while you can take the North Yorks Moors Railway out to the beautiful Yorkshire coast. Lots of steam on this railway - timetable here.
http://www.nymr.co.uk/
You can reach Whitby on this train, somewhere that might well appeal to your children, especially with the Dracula link.
The Whitby skyline is dominated by the ruined Abbey which you can visit.
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/v.../whitby-abbey/
If they are readers they might like to read the Whitby Witches books before they go.
http://www.robinjarvis.com/whitbyhome.html
Whitby is also famous for wonderful fish and chips - the Magpie Café is renowned for its fish dishes.
http://www.magpiecafe.co.uk/

flanneruk

If you don't want to leave London, Didcot Railway Centre is about 45 mins by conventional trains from central London.

Its attractions include "steam days" (http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.u.../calendar.html) many weekends, which offer more or less free rides on 1930s carriages pulled by restored steam engines.

The only sensible way of getting from central London to Scotland is the straightforward 4 hour train journey. This gives you all the scenery a steam train would offer were there such things on proper routes.

PalenQ

http://www.rhdr.org.uk/

the narrow-narrow-gauge Romney, Hythe and Dimchurch steam train is also a very possible day trip from London by train and goes thru a marsh much of the way. Easy to visit Dover Castle the same time -one of the most gorgeous castles of your dreams anywhere.