If you are going on EuroStar, which I recommend, second class is perfectly adequate. All seats have to be reserved, and the cars are airconditioned (unless the AC is broken). I have ridden first class when no second class seats were available, and frankly I don't think it is worth the price. If it is an IC or an EC train, then I usually rise first class.

Second class will do. on italian trains usually first class means only a little more space for the legs and blue instead of orange upholstery. If you are worried about comfort, make sure to book your seats in advance (it can also be done on Intercity trains and it costs only 3 euros). The seats are exactly the same as well as air conditioning. On all Eurostar and Intercity trains there is a catering service wioth no difference between first and second class: usually the coffee and the sandwiches are foul and costly for both second and first class, so bringing you own food might not be a bad idea.

I shall limit my comments to your second question. No, a 2nd class seat is not AS comfortable as a first class seat. That is one prime reason it is more expensive.

Alice:

As to foul sandwiches I simply *have* to relate an incident that happened to me:

When I was in the final year of medical school, I spent 10 months in different hospitals as practical training.

One of the earliest patients I had to examine was a worker suffering from active full-blown pulmonary tuberculosis, who was breathing out literally thousands of germs with every breath (I guess this was the reason my "dear colleagues" let me examine him).

When taking his history, I asked him about his line of work. He told me that he was working for the Swiss Dining Car Company, and that he had been assigned to pack submarine sandwiches into paper bags. When asked, how precisely he was packing them, this good man brightly told me "Oh that's an easy kind of work, I take one of the bags, give a good blow to open it and push the sandwich inside".

Eventually we cured him and no other workers were found to be infected with tbc, but I never again have eaten a railway sandwich.

Enjoy your travels (but forego railway sandwiches)

Phil.

Hiho

Generally speaking this is true, but since the question vas specifically about italian railways, I can assure that a second class seat is almost as comfortable as a first class and the 30% difference in price is not justified by an equal difference in confort. This is my experience of longtime traveller on Italian trains.

Phil

The sandwiches on Italian trains are not foul in that sense. They are industrial stuff, vacuum-packaged and (afaik) treated with radiations. The problem is that the breat tastes chemical and the ham and cheese may taste chemical if they had a taste whatsoever.

Alice:

Well, I realise that more than 20 years have gone by. Judging from the food trolleys, our Swiss railway sandwiches nowadays are just the same industrial gunk as the Italian ones.

No reason really to try one of these things anywhere in Europe (BTW did I tell you the story of being served custard pies with *bacon* on a British airline?).

Phil.

Just got back from Italy and travelled the Eurostar several times. The first class car seating is much better in my opinion. The seating configuration is 2 on one side and single seats facing each other on the other side. Second class is 2 and 2. First class seats recline very nicely. Can't say that the serice in first is anything to write home about though.

But George is only going Venice to Florence. Is it worth the extra money for first class?

Phil

You know, only once in my life I have found decent (I mean good!) sandwiches on a train,a nd that was in Cuba. Socialism wins! As for the custard, in some areas of Italy a traditional dish is a mix of fried foods (salted) that include custard-like squares and in some other areas this fritto misto includes almond bisquits (amaretti)?

Edith

As I said, the only difference is the distance between the seats and, in the case of the Eurostar trains, their width. Is 5 cm more worth a 30% highier pèrice?

well, we're in for a little longer ride (Ligure-Napoli and then Napoli-Milan) with each leg being over-night. I assumed 1st class was the only way to go for comfort.

Thanks for the suggestions and comments - and I will definitely avoid those bagged sandwiches!

We've chosen 2nd class, reserved - when we get back, I will report if anything interesting has happened.
Thanks again!

MQL

Travelling in a second class coach is perfectly conforrtable even for a longer ride. The main difference on italan trains is not the class but the type of train. A first class seat on an Espreso train is far less comfortable than a second class seat in an Intercity train and a fisrt class seat on an Intercity train is less comfortable (Imho) than a second class seat on an Eurostar train (mostly because the ride is far longer: you can reach Milano from Naples in 6 hours by eurostar but the trip will take you more than 8 hours on an Intercity train).

There is one other significant consideration: during the summer months, the air conditioning on Eurostar, Eurocity and Intercity trains in Italy (other trains don't have a/c whatsoever) sometimes seems to work better in first class. This is usually because there are fewer passengers in first class carriages, and hence less body heat sapping the air conditioning. I would say that the difference is noted mainly on heavily traveled Intercity trains (e.g. Milan to Venice), where it is common for second class to be jammed. Hence, even with a reserved seat in second class, some people may feel more comfortable in first class. In George's case (Venice to Florence, three hours), I would recommend reserving a second class seat on one of the Eurostar trains. First class would be an option but not essential.

I have never noticed any problem with Eurostar trains: on these trains you must book your seat before getting on the train, so the amount of people on a second class carriage is only slightly more than the people in the first class.
On Intercity(Euroscity trains there is a trick for staying cooler: book your seat and shut the door to the corridor. I swear it works!

I've found that as the speed of the train decreases (Eurostar, IC, espresso, diretto, regionale, etc.), the need for a first-class seat increases, especially in non-air-conditioned trains. Larger seats and fewer people means a less-hot ride.

Second class on the Eurostar is quite comfortable, except if you're tall (I'm 6' 3"). Your knees will hit the intervening post/tray tables. Raising the tray table gives you about an inch or two more room, but then your knees will rest against the tracks that the tray tables rest in, which can be painful.

After 1 experience in 2nd class for a few bucks extra we go first class. Its not much more expensive.

But whatever you do if you are non-smoker then make sure you get non-smaking car. We were stuck on 2nd class, no AC smoking cart from rome to florence in early June. Made my wife nauseas. Not a good way to finally arrive to your destination.

George,

We traveled from Venice to Florence several days ago on the Eurostar in 1st class. My recommendation is go with 1st class.

We traveled throughout Italy and our experience was that the air conditioning was not operating properly for a time on every single train we rode. This included two Eurostars and the Cisalpino. The main difference between 1st and 2nd class in Italy is air conditioning. The 1st class trains are air conditioned and when the other cars were hotter than blazes, the 1st class cars were comfortable. Dee

Matt

Interregionale and Regionale trains do not even have first class (at least some Interregionale have it, but no Regionale has). These trains are neant for small trips, less than an hour. They ar meant for the sema kind of youse you might make of a subway, therefore they have no first class as well as a subway doesn't usually have a first class. Espresso trains are the cheapest trains available for long trips and the slowest too. They are meant for people who does not want to spend money on their trip. Usually Eurostar and Intercity are the trains udes for long travels, therefore they are the fastest, the most comfortable and the most expensive.

Dee

On second class (and first class too) there is the bad habit of keeping the doors of the single compartiments ulocked. If you just close the door you will see that the air condioning works regularly.

I'm planning to take a train from Florence to Venice the beginning of October. I want to take EuroStar, so do I need to make reservations in advance? How soon and which website should I use? Is it cheaper to buy them through a travel agent?

Since I suppose you will be spending a ffew days in Florence before moving to Venice, booking the seats a you arrive in Florence will be enough. Usually booking the seats one day in advance is more than enough, just to be sure that you happen to be on an "unusual" day, fbook a few days in advance.
Book your tickets directly at the train station, either from the clerk (make sure you are on the booking line: "biglietti per i giorni successivi") or, even more easily, from one of the machines you can find at the station (you can pay cash, with an ATM card or with a credit card). Booking from a travel agency will not be cheaper, on the other hand sometimes travel agencies ask a commision on the train tickets and some other times there have been problems with the seats booked through the travel agencies.
Two last things: if you are travelling with at least two friends you can get a 30% discount on every train, including Eurostar, just ask for it at the window as you buy the ticket (the machines automatically apply the discount as you type the number of travellers, but travel agents sometimes do not even know about this offer) and BRING YOUR OWN FOOD!

Thank you Alice. I'm actually only going to be in Florence for one day, so if that's not enough time, what's my next best option? And thanks for the hint about the discount, but I'm going on my homeymoon so it will only be the two of us!

Oh, but Alice, I am very interested in the 30 percent discount! You said that it was applicable if you are traveling with 2 friends (a group of 3). How about a family of 4 traveling together? WOuld the discount apply to us? Thanks.

Susan,
The discount applies to three or more traveling together. Our family of four received the discount.

Msg. for Alice Twain,

The problems with the air conditioning on Italian trains wasn't caused by leaving the compartment doors open. The trouble was mechanical, as evidenced by train personnel working with the electrical panel on the train. Also, on the trains we rode, when the air was working properly the car was air conditioned both inside the compartment as well as in the corridor. Dee

Have been in Italy 3 times this year and traveled exclusively by train. The eurostar is faster and 2nd class is terrific. A little less leg room but you get to mix and mingle with the local Italians. What more could you want.

Laura

Your next best options willl be traying to book your ticket from the trenitalia site (www.trenitalia.it), which seems to work poorly for on-line booking (you gan get your tickets from any ticket selling machine in any Italian train station). As an alternative, you can book your tickets from any travel agent. This might cost you slightly more due to commissions, but the difference in price should not be huge.

Susan

This offer applies to any group of travellers composed by 3 or more people. At leat that is how it worked last year when I last used it. For larger groups (20 or more people) there are further advantages.

Dee
If your problems with air conditioning are due to the air conditioning being broken, you can ask a 20% refund on the ticket price.