crossen

I am doing some planning for an autumn trip to France for my wife and me. We are retired and active and we enjoy independant travel. We would like to travel to Nomandy and Brittany and spend a little time in Paris also. We've been to Paris for about 10 days in the past, but as you know, you can never spend too much time in Paris. I have Celt ancestry and that is the attraction with Brittany. Besides, I have have heard it is beautiful and somewhat off the tourist track. We also would like to see the beaches and memorials in Normandy. We are planning to be travelling in France for about two weeks. I woukd like to avoid driving and I was wondering if it is possible to get the feel for Normandy and Brittany by picking 3 - 4 places to stay ( 2 -3 nights) and taking trains to these places (and which places they would be?). I realize we would miss many things in between, but that is the price we will have to pay for not driving. Thank you very much for your help.
RMC

StCirq

No, it's really not possible without driving. Trains don't go to places "off the tourisst track." Just about everything that is appealing about both Normandy and Brittany (the WWII sites, the Brittany forests and beaches) isn't reachable by train/public transportation. You could hire drivers or take tours, I suppose, but having never done that I can't offer advice.

nytraveler

Traveling around the countryside by train is very difficult. It
s easy to get from Paris to a central large town - but after that train service is extremely spotty - and doesn't exist to many places.

There are local buses, but they are really FOR locals - and may run only once or twice a day. We visited the area and it would have been impossible to see many things without a car.

So I suggest that you look into local tours on the spot or hiring a driver with car to get you to the places not reachable by train or bus.

sofarsogood

While I'm sure having a car would give you extra flexibility I wouldn't be dissuaded from exploring Normandy and Brittany by public transport. They are certainly not off the tourist track, but are very popular regions to visit.

As a start here are links to two websites

first, the Normandie Office de Tourisme and how to travel within the region by train

http://tinyurl.com/b59s39z

second, getting around Brittany by train

http://tinyurl.com/ayc3kw5

Both sites have lots of info to help you plan

Avalon2

I agree with all of the above. Driving is easy in France especially these areas . Rent a car!

sunny101

Going to Brittany without a car is possible and we had a great time doing it.

Last September, my friend and I visited Brittany for 2 weeks -- without a car. We rented apartments in Rennes (6 nights), Quimper (3 nights), and Vannes (5 nights). We used trains and regional buses to do day trips to Dinan, Fougeres, Mont Saint Michel (Normandy), Concarneau, and Carnac.

We began our planning with the concept that we would prefer to not bother with a car, since neither of us likes the driving or the navigating. Our pre-planning research showed us that quite a lot was possible and we selected from among a variety of places to visit. We met interesting people on the buses and the trains were relaxing for day trips.

Whichever way you go, I hope you enjoy Brittany as much as we did.

Southam

Car or not, it is well worth the cost (which can be substantial) to take a guided tour of the D-Day beaches in a van or other transport rather than driving yourself. You are paying for the informed commentary more than for the ride. The history and its context count more than the remnants of machine gun emplacements. Google will help you shop for a private guide or tour company. There are itineraries for those interested in the Commonwealth forces as well as the US invaders. Most people recommend staying in Bayeux but you have a bigger choice of hotels in Caen and can commute to Bayeux by train to catch the morning tour departure, getting up really early. Caen has its own military history, including its ancient fort and a new and positively-reviewed Caen-Normandy Memorial for History and Peace http://www.memorial-caen.fr/portailg...98&Itemid=1528
The centre runs its own guided tour of the beaches from Caen.

StCirq

<<We used trains and regional buses to do day trips to Dinan, Fougeres, Mont Saint Michel (Normandy), Concarneau, and Carnac. >>

Lovely, but not a single "off the beaten path" place. Which is what you said you were looking for.

PalenQ

Great train links Paris Sainit-Lazare to Caen and Bayeux - the latter a favorite base for me and many others for visiting the nearby D-Day beach highlights (plenty of minibus tours you can book on spot at your hotel desk or the local Tourist Office.

Then take a train from Bayeux to Pontorson and hop buses the six miles to Mont-Saint-Michel, just inside Brittany - plenty of hotels in Pontorson and a gaggle on the mainland just opposite the island and some on the island itself.

Then take a bus or train to Saint-Malo - a wonderful old seaide port town - then take train to Rennes, historic capaital of Brittany - maybe just a few hour look whilst your bags are in the train station lockers (not all stations nearly in France have luggage lockers or storage however so check) - then take TGV train back to Paris-Montparnasse.

For lots of great info on French trains check out not only www.voyages-sncf.com (nifty discounts for TGV trains and also on www.idTGV.com site) and www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com. There is a France Railpass but I do not think you will be traveling enough on trains to make it worthwhile.

Gretchen

Why is it you don't want to drive specifically? Some posters just don't drive at all--but you say you'd like to "avoid" it. It is quite easy to drive in France after understanding that you look for the next town on the route you are taking, not necessarily the route number. Michelin maps are excellent, needless to say, and the large ones will show you all those little out of the way places you want to visit.

crossen

Thank you all very much for your advice. I can tell that I still have a lot of planning to do. I also can tell that I really need to think about driving. I have driven in England, Wales and Ireland several times in the past, but that was several years ago. Even though the driving in London was challenging, especially since it was the fist time I had ever driven on the left, it went OK. The roads in Ireland in severalplaces were very narrow, but we enjoyed getting off the beaten track. A few years later we went to Paris for about 11 days over Bastille Day. Our hotel was near the Arc de Triomph and we took a bus, then a taxi to the hotel from the airport. The traffic around the Arch was unlike anything I had ever seen. We used to live about 2 hours north of Manhattan so driving in NYC was challenging, but nothing like what I saw in Paris. I guess this has affected my thinking about driving in France. Besides, I have always wanted to spend some time on the trains in Europe. In the Northeast I enjoyed train travel between Boston and New York. As you probably know, travelling by train is pretty bad everywhere else in the U.S.
A few years ago we traveled via train from Frankfort to Vienna, then on to Saltzburg, Munich and then back to Frankfort. I really enjoyed traveling by train on that vacation. I have to admit, we also enjoy the freedom that traveling by car can provide.
Again, thank you all for your help!

Rumseydog

I concur with most of the posters above that driving in Normandy and Brittany is typically stress-free. For our trip in October 2009, we took the train from Paris to Caen, rented a car from Europcar directly across the street from the station, then spent 5 days -- 3 in Bayeux and 2 in Dinan -- taking in all the Normandy D-Day beaches, Mont-St-Michel, and several of the small towns and much of the lovely countryside in between

We brought along our Garmin GPS, which was quite a success and saved us having to constantly consult our Michelin map. At the conclusion of our trip, we returned the car to Caen and hopped on the train back to Paris.

Have a great trip!

Gretchen

NO one is suggesting you drive in Paris!! But driving in the countryside and the smaller cities is not at all difficult. If you pick up your car at CDG you are already on the northerly side of Paris and getting out is comparatively easy. If you can drive on the wrong side (which I have never done, and won't) you can easily drive on the "right" side. Train travel can be fun, but for the area you want, you will enjoy SO much more by driving, stopping, going where you want when you want.

PalenQ

Train travel is great in most areas of Europe but not so great exploring Normandy and Brittany as there is a paucity of train lines and bus service is not that great either. so unlike going between Frankfurt, Salzburg and Vienna where trains are great and frequent the few sidelines in say most of Normandy and Brittany have just a few trains on them a day - like the Bayeux to Pontorson to Rennes sideline.

You can go by train but it takes much more planning then say in Germany where trains go everywhere all the time.

so IMO the efficacy of train travel depends on where you go and if you only want to go to big cities - in which case train travel makes a lot of sense - but in rural areas like Normandy and Brittany cars make more sense and yes the traffic is nothing like in Paris or London.

PalenQ

Maybe a happy medium would be to take a train to say Caen, a main city with lots of car rentals opposite the train station (and Avis I believe inside the station) and drive then around Normandy and Brittany to Rennes, return the car there and take the train back to Paris. You may want to investigate the France Rail 'n Drive Pass that gives you a certain number of unlimited train travel days and a number of car days to be used anywhere in France over a 2-month period (maybe 1 month?)

FrenchMystiqueTours

It certainly is possible to visit Normandy and Brittany by train and bus but this will really limit what you can see and when you can see it and as a result all of your planning has to be built around train and bus schedules. A car is definitely the way to go when exploring these regions and as others have mentioned the driving is a piece of cake in the countryside and towns and villages.

If you need any help planning an itinerary I've got a few tips if you want to have a look. Have a look at this thread for ideas of what to see and do in Normandy between Monet's house and gardens in Giverny and Bayeux/D-Day sites. There are lots of practical tips as well as links to the major tourist office websites in Normandy:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic....html#39058384

If you want to look at my trip report about exploring near Dinan, Saint-Malo and Mont Saint Michel (eastern Brittany) then feel free. The report has lots of photos and descriptions of the places I visited. At the very end of the report are links to every major tourist office website in Brittany: http://tinyurl.com/86s4v8f

Here is a similar report about exploring The Gulf of Morbihan in western Brittany: http://tinyurl.com/8xuuryc

There are many parts of Brittany not covered in my reports that are worth visiting such as The Pink Granite Coast and Finistere and much of inland Brittany and you can learn more about them by checking the tourist office website links I provided in the end of the first report.

PalenQ

Two joys I had when bicycling thru Normandy was stopping by farms with signs out front "Camembert and Calvados - meaning those places produce the famous cheese Normandy is famed for and the alcoholic cider it is equally known for - you can usually see the production facilities and sample the product and of course buy from the producer.

Another joy of road travel is that you can stop by the ever-increasing number of B&Bs, some in farm houses on farms producing cheese and cider. Look for Chambres d'Hotes signs along the road - meaning rooms for rent - some with breakfast included but not always.

crossen

Again, thank you all for this wonderful information and all these recommendations. My wife and I enjoy visiting large cities and all the cultural experiences and visits to historic sites that come with being in large city, but as I think back on many of our favorite times when traveling, many of them have been when we have just been wandering around in the countryside. The D-Day beaches are a definite on our itinerary in Normandy (as well as Giverny between Normandy and Paris) and San Michel probably should be also (although I hear it is very crowded). When it comes to Brittany, where we should travel is much less clear to me. We would like to stay a couple nights in each location and that would mean a couple nights near the beaches in Normandy, then about 3 places in Brittany, maybe a couple nights somewhere in the Loire Valley too, then back to Paris. I am lost as to where to go in Brittany. I have been reading a lot of material and trying to put together the first draft of an itinerary. I do not want to pick places where we would be driving so much that we find that we do not have the time to stop and see some wonderful things along the way (i.e. driving all the way out to Brest, etc.). Right now, my first crack at setting an itinerary is - Caen - 2 nights / Dinan - 2 nights / Quimper or Lorient - 2 nights / Rennes - 2 nights / Tours or Orleans - 2 nights / Paris -3 nights. As I said, this is my first go at this so I'm sure there will be many changes before it is finalized. The two night stay is not set in concrete, but we have found in the past that if we stay somewhere at least a couple nights, we usually have the chance to get the feeling for the area rather that just saying “we’ve been there and we have the picture to prove it .” Right now, based on many of the recommendations I have received here, I am heavily leaning toward driving this trip. Again, thank all of you for your help.

Gretchen

Ummm, you've forgotten Normandy DDay beaches. Caen is not the epicenter of that. And Giverney, etc. doesn't fit into "2 nights in Caen". My opinion.

FrenchMystiqueTours

My vacation style is pretty much defined by wandering around and getting lost in anonymous places and the best tool you can have to do this is a Michelin map. In the first link I gave you there's information about Michelin maps and how to use them to wander around and explore without knowing where you're going. My trip reports will show you how I use the maps.

I'd suggest a couple of changes to your list of bases. Stay in Bayeux, not Caen. Bayeux is a charming town with a great cathedral and a lot of medieval buildings and is really charming. Caen is a large city that was heavily bombed during the war and is more modern than charming. Choose Quimper over Lorient for the same reasons. You've got two nights in Dinan and since Rennes is close to Dinan it seems redundant to return to the same area. I would suggest staying on The Pink Granite Coast (Cote de Granit Rose) or along the coast near to there. Ploumanach, Perros-Guirec and Paimpol are a few of the preferred bases in this area along the coast and just inland Treguier is nice. Alternatively, you could take away Rennes and add the extra days to Quimper and/or Dinan.

In the Loire you don't want to base in Orleans as it is not at all central to the sites you'll want to visit. Tours has a very nice old downtown in the Place Plumereau area but other than that it is a somewhat sprawling, modern city and can be confusing to drive in/around. However, as a result you get a wide variety of restaurants and hotels here.

Really what makes the best base in the Loire is dependent on what you want to visit. Decide what you want to visit and pick a place central to those locations. The most heavily visited areas and most popular sites in the Loire lie more or less between Tours in the west and Blois in the east. Amboise, Blois, Loches and Chinon are popular places to base here and some smaller but nice towns would be Bleres, Montrichard and Montresor. Here are some of the tourist office websites for the places I mentioned:

http://www.loirevalleytourism.com/

http://www.chateaux-de-la-loire.fr/c..._the_loire.htm

http://www.loirevalleywine.com/

http://www.amboise-valdeloire.co.uk/

http://www.bloischambord.co.uk/

http://www.tours-tourisme.fr/index_en.php

http://www.chinon-valdeloire.com/

http://www.loches-tourainecotesud.com/