Train travel in Europe

Old Dec 3rd, 2013, 05:27 PM
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Train travel in Europe

My Wife and I have just booked a trip to Europe leaving on January 6th returning back to Canada February 7th. We are landing in Paris and flying out of Barcelona and trying to figure out our best options for getting around. Our plan is to spend 3-4 days in Paris then make our way to Italy with a stop near Dijon for a night then in Switzerland for a night. We would then like to hit Venice, Florence, Rome and hopefully a small town or 2 along the way then over to Barcelona. Now we are looking at a 3 country rail pass to get us around Switzerland, Italy and Spain. I know we will need to purchase or pay for our legs thru France. I guess my question is, during this time of year is a rail pass the way to go or because it's low season would it be cheaper to purchase tickets as we go, not so much at the station the day of travel but even a day or 2 in advance? We don't want to be stuck to a schedule as we may want to be in 1 place longer or shorter depending on how it goes. Question number 2 is what is the best way to get from Italy to Barcelona? Should we do Rome first and work our way up and then take the train over or end up in Rome and then Fly over? I guess given the fact we only have 4 weeks we want to maximize our time, throwing around the idea of hitting either Ibiza or the Canary Islands for the last 5-7 days of our trip to unwind a bit but realize this May not happen given all the places we have in mind we want to see.

Any help, comments, advise you can pass along is greatly appreciated and I thank you for your time!

Chris and Cathy
Edmonton, AB Canada
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Old Dec 3rd, 2013, 05:35 PM
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For all you need to know about train travel in Europe see seat61.com. You are already a bit late for the cheapest train tickets for the start of your trip.

The best way from Rome to Barcelona is either the plane or the ferry.
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Old Dec 3rd, 2013, 05:59 PM
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Train schedules here:

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?

I don't get this one stop near Dijon and one in Switzerland--there is two big a percentage in travel time.

seat61 advises purchases of french train tickets on raileurope, which is a mistake as SNCF offers lower prices.

Florence to Rome next time we will spend two nights in Cortona [meals at La Bucaccia] with a daytrip to Orvieto.
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Old Dec 3rd, 2013, 05:59 PM
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To address the last part of your post, I think you will be flat out seeing all the places you've listed in a month and that the Ibiza/Canary Islands idea means trying to cram the rest of it into 3 weeks.

I can't help with the train pass questions but did want to say that train travel in Europe can be great. Comfortable, fast and a good excuse to get off your feet for a few hours.
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Old Dec 3rd, 2013, 08:25 PM
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Train travel in Europe
Posted by: currie33 on Dec 3, 13 at 9:27pm Posted in: Europe Tagged: France , Italy , Spain , Switzerland


For a newbie on the rails of Europe get a general introduction at http://tinyurl.com/eym5b. To answer your specific questions a very good source of information is http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/. Call them up and discuss your ideas. Byron and Linda are experienced and very helpful
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Old Dec 3rd, 2013, 08:58 PM
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Too many targets in too short a time. Days will be awfully short, dark by 5PM! Weather can be more than iffy, so allow enough time per location to make the most of each.

I would skip Barcelona - it's out of the way, you need time to do justice to Florence and Venice and Rome or you'll feel cheated.

A rail pass for Italy hardly ever pays for itself when compared to buying point-to-point tickets. Trains in Italy are way cheaper than in France or Switzerland. You'd have to do an awful lot of long-distance trips to make the pass pay for itself. If you can lock yourselves into a schedule, then you can look for advance discounts on www.trenitalia.com.

What exactly are your plans for the Switzerland portion? It probably also won't justify a pass if you just breeze through with one stop. Check at www.sbb.ch

If you insist on going from Rome to Barcelona: Fly. Trains through the south of France are not a good option - no real high-speed connections in that region. In summer the ferry can be fun (although slow), in winter not so much.

Look up fares, point-to-point, then compare with www.railsaver.com and the rail-pass pages on www.ricksteves.com
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Old Dec 4th, 2013, 03:23 AM
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Even if you don't buy the tickets well in advance, you still usually can't save money with a rail pass in Italy. Also, if you're willing to travel at odd times of day, you can often get discounted tickets even a few days in advance. The best place to get rail tickets for Italy is www.trenitalia.it , clicking on the UK flag to get English. The best price available will be shown next to each train. There's almost no difference between 1st and 2nd class, so it's not worth paying much more for 1st class. However, sometimes, if the discounts are sold out for 2nd but not for 1st, you can get 1st class for the same price as 2nd.

It seems to me as well that you're trying to see too much in a short time. Italy is a nation, and the three cities are not all in the same area. They are large enough that a quick tour of one day doesn't give you time to see the best of the cities, which is what you'd see after you've checked the "must-sees" off your list. Rome, especially should be allowed three full days (four nights).

For each destination, count the number of nights you'll stay there, and subtract one to get the number of days you'll have to see the destination. Otherwise you end up double-counting the travel days.
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Old Dec 4th, 2013, 03:25 AM
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>

Dijon is only 1.5 hours from Paris so I'm not understanding why you want to go such a short distance for a night, especially when you don't have a particular destination in mind. It will take more than 1.5 hours since you will need to make a connection to whatever place you've selected near Dijon.

Then again, you're breaking your trip with some unknown destination in Switzerland.

In Italy, you're looking to stop in a couple of small towns during your Venice, Florence, Rome trip.

It's best to take day trips from one of the cities rather than changing hotels every couple of days. You have the option to use buses for towns not accessible by train.

I would fly from Rome to Barcelona as it's a long train trip.

I don't think you have time for the Canary Islands or any place else as all those stops for smaller towns will take a lot more time than you think.

Additionally, if you don't make hotel reservations in advance then a good part of your sightseeing day will be taken up with finding a hotel. If you have a list of hotels in each location that will help you but when you're trying to find hotels in cities and stay within a certain budget you'll spend a couple of hours to find something.

>

You can unwind any place in Europe. You're considering islands in January. I hope you don't think it will be sun and surf you're encountering at that time of year.
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Old Dec 4th, 2013, 03:58 AM
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You seem to be ignoring two things:

You will be traveling in midwinter with all that means - cold, possible snow (esp Switz) very short days and sights open shorter hours (in Italy can be from 9 am to 1 or 3 pm vs a full day)

You are trying to force 6 weeks of stuff into a month (look at bahn.de to see train times - you need the best part of a day to get from one place to another - at a minimum

Europe does not have beach weather anyplace in Jan (Ibiza would be a total waste of time) and you really need to do more research and planning or this trlp be a disaster
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Old Dec 4th, 2013, 04:55 AM
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Thank you all for the info, very much appreciated!

I agree that we are trying to get too many stops in! We have decided that Ibiza or Canary Islands is out and will spend the last 5-7 in Barcelona, in which we will most likely fly too from Rome. We like to enjoy. The culture and Food and Wine is always tops on our travels so the fact that some sights may close earlier is ok, we would make sure we get an early start in the morning and then find a nice spot for Food and Wine for the late afternoon/ Evening.

I will do some more research as far as the trains but believe that we will skip the pass and book as we go, if it ends up being a bit more expensive that's fine as we want the flexibility of moving around as we please and not being set on a schedule. Same with accomodations, we will have our iPads with us so we can book a couple days in advance while enjoying some Wine when we know our travel plans to the next destination...thoughts?

I have seen the seat61 site and seems to have some good info...

So here's our thoughts now...spend 5-7 days in and around Paris , making our way to Italy via Switzerland for possibly 2 days, 10-14 days in Italy, Venice, Florence, Rome and then off to Barcelona for the remaining days? Obviously we can't see it all but
Hope that this will give us a good taste of Europe for our first trip ( And surely won't be our last, we already know that !)

Thanks again everyone!!
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Old Dec 4th, 2013, 05:13 AM
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I'm just throwing this out as a thought as I don't know the answer - you might want to check to see if the train tunnels are open between Switzerland and Italy in January/February and adjust your itinerary accordingly. Obviously the amount of snowfall will be a factor in tunnel opening/closing.

Your new itinerary makes more sense. In Barcelona, be sure to visit the Gaudi buildings before the light fades as the roofs are part of the visit and if it's dark you won't be able to see what's on the roof. Also much of the interior will look more spectacular if there is daylight coming in. This is especially important at Sagrada Familia.
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Old Dec 4th, 2013, 02:45 PM
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Here is the equivalent of what you are suggesting currie33.

Fly to Toronto for 5-7 days in the city and surrounding area (maybe day trip to Niagara Falls, day to Muskoka, visit Ottawa, the nation's capital for a day), Make your way to New York, Boston and Los Angeles for 10-14 days with possibly 2 days in Las Vegas enroute. Then, off to Mexico City for the remaining days.

Why do people seem to think that all the countries in Europe can be taken in as if they all only added up to their one home country?

Any country in Europe has as much or more to offer the visitor than any other country has. If you think trying to see all of North America in one month is pretty ridiculous (I certainly do) then just how ridiculous is it to try and see 4 countries in Europe?

Would you suggest that someone try visiting Canada, the USA and Mexico in a month? That's what you are proposing in fact. The only difference is in distances.

Would you write of the above N. American itinerary example that it would 'hopefully give a good taste of N. America for a first trip'?

Would you say it would be best use of time? Or would you say it was trying to cover too much in too little time?
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Old Dec 5th, 2013, 08:09 AM
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Well I can not disagree fully with your comparison, however travel thru Europe is leaps and bounds ahead of North America with out a doubt, both in convenience with the high speed trains and in price...$135.00 to fly from Rome to Barcelona? $30 for a train from Venice to Florence? I couldn't even get to the Airport for those prices in Alberta....I know it's a lot to see in a short time and who knows we may get there and stay in 1 spot, all depends what we think and what we feel at the time, which is the nice thing about not having a set Itinerary except for the arrival and departure.....we are looking forward to the experience and getting to see the sites and sounds however many that may be!
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Old Dec 5th, 2013, 08:35 AM
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What/where is it in Switzerland that you had in mind? If you only give it two days you might pick somewhere that's on the main train lines from France to Italy AND is a worthwhile target - in winter there are not too many like that.

Just a few that come to mind:

On the connection TGV/EC via Basel:
Basel, Bern, Brig (to take the mountain train up to Zermatt)

On the connection TGV/EC via Geneva:
Geneva (not too exciting), Lausanne (Olympic Museum), Montreux (mild climate, lakeside promenades, great views on clear days to Mont Blanc across the lake, go up on Les Rochers de Naye by train and visit nearby Chillon Castle), Brig (again - for access to Zermatt)

Other fast trains go via the French and Italian alps, not entering Switzerland. Look them all up at www.sbb.ch, enter Paris and Milano Centrale, and click on the "plus" symbols on the left to see details, and on the train numbers to see even more details of the route and stops.
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Old Dec 5th, 2013, 08:44 AM
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Question number 2 is what is the best way to get from Italy to Barcelona?>

well there is an overnight boat from Barcelona to Italy - to Livorno or near it I believe, not far from Pisa/Florence/Genoa - if you have a railpass you get a discount on the boat -

Now we are looking at a 3 country rail pass to get us around Switzerland, Italy and Spain.>
Not sure why you would want Spain - or did I miss some Spanish travels> If going first-class a pass can be a good deal vs regular first-class fares and if you wish flexibility to chose which trains to take once there and not have to book non-refundable non-changeable tickets weeks in advance - there are significant benefits IME of 1st class over 2nd class and that is why many Europeans buy first class tickets and there are usually lots of first-class seats on trains.

In first-class I usually find lots of empty seats - put my luggage on an adjoining seat, etc - not usually in 2nd class - seats are bigger and there are fewer in the same size train car - only in first class can you get the aisle and window seats - rows with just one seat in them - these can face each other with a table in between them for couples.

For lots of really good European train info check not only www.seat61.com, recommended above but also www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. For schedules I always use www.bahn.de/en - the German Railways site as I find it easy to use and usually very relaible.
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