dcm58

I have a question about train tickets - or, more specifically about the differences in classes.

I am traveling with my husband and older parents to Italy and will be taking trains from venice to florence, florence to rome, and rome to naples (pompeii).

I have noticed that there is a fairly big price difference between first class and second class and even between the types of trains (AV, ES, and IC). Can anyone offer more direction with this? I would like to ensure that we all have a comfortable ride, but do not want to spend extra money unnecessarily!

I have researched a bit on the forums and find conflicting information. Some people say you can't reserve seats in second class and some people say you can. then, some people say there is smoking in second class and some people say no, etc. I am conflicted!

thank you in advance for any help!

charnees

Whether you can reserve a seat in 2nd depends on which kind of train you take. Very helpful, non e' vero? I am not sure which you can and cannot.

But when we took a regional no-reservation train from orvieto to Rome on a weekend, people had to stand in the aisle the whole hour of the trip. I have bad knees and thankfully a young man gave me his seat because I am an "old lady" at 73. Aging has its points!

LJ

For this and all other questions and answers on Italian train travel, you needto check out the thread named 'CDF's Guide to Trains for the Clueless'...extremely useful!

hughakston

Here is a site that gives good (if basic) information on the different train types in Italy. I have always traveled only on the EuroStar (ES) or Inter-City (IC) trains as these are the fastest.

I've traveled 2nd class and had no problem on the ES and IC trains but if you are truly worried I'd try to stay on the IC Plus or ES trains as these will allow you to actually book seats (in either class).

hughakston

woops...here's the site...

http://goitaly.about.com/od/italytra...n/a/trains.htm

PalenQ

LJ - thanks for the comments on my Clueless thingy

dcm58 - if i were taking my older parents and a group of four i would DEFINITELY go in first class - much roomier seats - more room for luggage and you even often get a cup of java and a pastry in first class. Much more relaxed for a party of four with two older adults IMO - have them pay for the train fares.

TravMimi

Examples to compare trains: Rome to Naples
AV - fastest 1hr 27 mins.
1st cl E46.60
2nd cl E36.10

ES - not as fast 1 hr 53mins
1st cl E39.00
2nd cl E27.60

IC - even less fast 2 hrs 9 mins
1st cl E25.50
2nd cl E19.50

R - regional slow cheap

Check trenitalia.com for times, prices and discounts available

dcm58

LJ and PalenQ, thank you for the note to the clueless site, but that was something that contributed to my confusion! It seemed that PalenQ had noted the only difference between 1st and 2nd class was the crowded situation, but if you get reserved tix on 2nd class, isn't this alleviated? then others said you couldn't always get reserved on 2nd class, but I can't remember how to tell which you can reserve and which you can't! unfortunately, I have not used european rail since 2004 . . . and then I was a student who didn't care about comfort and crowding . . . I just hopped a train with my eurailpass and went with it! very different situation with the older parents now, right? ha. I do appreciate the thoroughness of PalenQ's site, however, I just have a few confusions left!

PalenQ, I agree I might as well just reserve 1st and get it over with. I think you are wise in that advice . . . but then my question is as between the trains. on your thread, there doesn't seem to be much difference between the trains, yet, as travmimi points out, there is a fairly big difference between the pricing (in 2st class) on each type of train - especially when I am paying for four people on three different train trips! Besides time, is there a big difference between the trains? If not, I would definitely spend 25 extra minutes on a train for a savings of 40E! over three trips, that adds up!

Thank you for the site, hughakston, I will read it now and see if it clears up my issues. I just don't want to make the wrong decision for the whole party just to save a few dollars (euro!) . . .

ellenem

Using TravMimi's list, here's my take on the differences in service.

AV - fastest 1hr 27 mins.
1st cl E46.60
2nd cl E36.10
All tickets come with reserved assigned seats. This is better mostly because of speed. Trains a slightly newer.

ES - not as fast 1 hr 53mins
1st cl E39.00
2nd cl E27.60
All tickets come with reserved assigned seats. I find 2nd class more comfortable that airline coach seats and plenty of room for luggage. Yes, 2nd is more crowded than first, but everyone has their own seat.

There is a level called IC Plus in between these two. IC Plus tickets come with reserved assigned seats.

IC - even less fast 2 hrs 9 mins
1st cl E25.50
2nd cl E19.50
A ticket buys you passage on any IC train that goes between the two places at any time of day--first come first served for seats. You can reserve an assigned seat for a small extra fee. Some of these trains might be older. For IC, I always reserve a 1st class seat since 2nd class can be full of people jostling for seats at every stop or standing in the halls if there are no seats left.

R - regional slow cheap
Don't bother

For your itinerary or group, I think ES trains will be a nice compromise of speed and comfort. There will be few if any stops along the way. I would be happy in 2nd class for all these trips. Two of your rides are less than two hours, but you might splurge for 1st class on the longer 3-hour trip between Venice and Florence.

dcm58

yea!!! thank you, ellenem! I am so thrilled with all of the helpful and well-informed people using this site . . . this is better than a travel agency! I have been haunting this site for months planning my trip and it is really coming together. thank you!

ok everyone . . . one final question (well, on this subject at least!). I have read, through PalenQ's post, about people having trouble getting reservations on the paris trains with a eurail pass. Through research, I THINK it is better that I don't get the one country pass and just purchase point to point tix. Does anyone think I will have trouble getting reservations the day before (or even the morning of) for the AV or ES trains? I would like to give us some flexibility on traveling times, but now think I might want to purchase all tix here in America before traveling to Italy. deep sigh.

ira

Hi dc,

Take the ES* trains - all seats are reserved.

2nd class is fine.

After you arrive at Naples Centrale, you have to go downstairs to get the Circumvesuviana train to Pompei Scavi.

You need to buy tickets for that train. It is all one class (I think)

Enjoy Italy.

TravMimi

I vote with ES 2nd class.
Unless you travel on holidays, buying tickets the day before is fine. I assume you will want to take very early trains, so you might not want to wait till that morning.

greg

Unlike airplanes, the "comfort" level differences between 1st and 2nd classes, once seated, are little.

Additional considerations I did not notice is the luggage issue. More people compete for luggage space at the end of car, overhead, and between seats in the 2nd class. The passageway always seem to be more clogged in the 2nd class. I always book 1st class when I am laden with luggage to IMPROVE the chance of finding a place to put my luggage nearby.

However, there is a gotcha with the 1st class. In ES configuration, they seem to put 1st class cars at the end of the train -- not necessarily the cars closest to the station. So plan on possibly walking a lot with your luggage after getting to the platform. Of course, in the ES, the 2nd class seats are also reserved, so you still have to find your car.

All trains require you to lift luggage up steps from the platform level to the car.

ellenem

I doubt a pass will help with this itinerary. You might score Amica fares for some of these trips.

These are popular routes with almost hourly options. Unless you're traveling on an Italian holiday or Friday, I'm sure you could purchase the day before with no problem.

People always talk about wanting to remain "flexible" timewise, but I find that when you really inquire they are actually pretty sure of what they want already. "What time should we leave?" "Oh, I don't care. But we should arrive before dark." or "But I don't want to miss lunch." All of a sudden you can pretty much pinpoint the one or two trains that will work best.

Personally, I like to check out of my hotel after breakfast and arrive at my next destination in time for lunch. With older parents this might be a consideration.

Keep in mind--once you arrive in Italy you might purchase all your tickets at the same time. Also after your first train ride, your companions might be less concerned about flexibility.

TravMimi

Amica fares (20% discount)
These fares are offered in a limited number, and can be bought up to 24 hours before train's departure.

BarbaraJ

Great advice here. I too would take 2nd class on an AV or ES train for the two shorter trips and splurge on first class for the longer (Florence to Rome). However, contrary to some of the other posts, we found there was less trouble finding places for luggage in 2nd class than in first. On our last trip from Florence to Rome, 1st class seemed to be mainly tourists with luggage, wherein 2nd class (where we were) was mainly business people, students and others with very little luggage.

I also second getting your tickets the day before so that you can get the Amica fares. With four tickets it will be a substantial savings!

Good luck and enjoy your trip.

BarbaraJ

Sorry - meant to say take 1st class between Florence and Venice.

PalenQ

"1st Class is often at the end"

but before the trip is over they could be at the front - like from Rome to Venice - they go into the deadend Florence SMN station and then the loco is detached - another put on the front and viola when you get to Venice the first class cars if they were at the end of the train in Rome are now in its front upon arrival in Venice,-.

Trains also 'turn around in a different direction' at Rome Termini and Milano Centrale and Naples Centrale

ellenem

On the train platform there is a display case with a diagram of each train by train number. Yu can check this to see the location on the platform of your particular carriage.