Train pass for travel in Italy, France, and Netherlands??
Jul 29th, 2014, 08:52 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Train pass for travel in Italy, France, and Netherlands??
My brother and I will be traveling around Europe for the first time at the end of August and beginning of September this year. We have been searching rail pass sites looking to see if they will save us money, but have just gotten more confused... does anyone have any input on whether or not we should by a rail pass just in italy? or maybe a eurorail pass for 2 countries? or go day to day? what about buying ahead of time online instead of waiting until we're in Europe? Here's our (current) itinerary:
Pisa - Florence
Florence - Venice (and back to Florence)
Florence - Rome (and back to Florence)
Florence - Milan
Milan - Paris
Paris - Amsterdam (and back to Paris)
please help us!!
Pisa - Florence
Florence - Venice (and back to Florence)
Florence - Rome (and back to Florence)
Florence - Milan
Milan - Paris
Paris - Amsterdam (and back to Paris)
please help us!!
Jul 29th, 2014, 09:26 PM
#2
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tickets here 120 days in advance, Italian city names.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...005817f90aRCRD
MIlan to Paris fly Easy jet, or skip Milan, from Florence on Vueling.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...005817f90aRCRD
MIlan to Paris fly Easy jet, or skip Milan, from Florence on Vueling.
Jul 29th, 2014, 10:02 PM
#4
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<< please help us!! >>
You need a map of Italy and of Europe. You can look at one on the internet. Going back and forth to Florence and Paris does not make sense to me. Why are you doing this? Why make your itinerary so complicated and spend extra time on trains.
What's your starting point? Is it Pisa? Why not start in Rome and work your way north.
Rome
Florence (Pisa as a day trip from Florence)
Venice
Milan
Then either Amsterdam or Paris and fly home from your last city.
You need a map of Italy and of Europe. You can look at one on the internet. Going back and forth to Florence and Paris does not make sense to me. Why are you doing this? Why make your itinerary so complicated and spend extra time on trains.
What's your starting point? Is it Pisa? Why not start in Rome and work your way north.
Rome
Florence (Pisa as a day trip from Florence)
Venice
Milan
Then either Amsterdam or Paris and fly home from your last city.
Jul 29th, 2014, 11:01 PM
#5
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,960
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yikes .. I don't understand your plan at all.. looks so messy and mixed up.. I think you really need to rethink.. read Adriennes post again.
Stop going back and forth to places.
Skip rail pass idea.
Buy your Thalys ticket ( paris Amsterdam) NOW as they are cheaper the farther in advance you buy them.
Stop going back and forth to places.
Skip rail pass idea.
Buy your Thalys ticket ( paris Amsterdam) NOW as they are cheaper the farther in advance you buy them.
Jul 30th, 2014, 03:29 AM
#6
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 7,956
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's very unlikely that a rail pass would be the most economical choice for this trip. However, the oon the only way to be sure would be to price the trips on the Italian and French rail sites.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...005817f90aRCRD
http://be.voyages-sncf.com/en/
Keep in mind that the trips between major cities in Italy (Rome, Florence, Venice, and Milan) will be on fast trains, which have a mandatory reservation fee of €10 per trip, not included in the cost of the pass. You can get great discounts on all the trains you'll need if you buy well in advance. For the Italian trains, you should try to buy 120 days in advance. I'm not sure what the optimum time is to buy tickets on the French rail site. Both sites allow you to print your tickets at home.
I agree that you are making too many round trips between Florence and other cities, and between Paris and Amsterdam. This would cost you considerable time and money.
The only round trip that would make sense would be between Florence and Pisa, which you haven't planned. This is a very short trip, on a cheap regional trains, for which you shouldn't buy tickets in advance. It's an easy day trip from Florence, and you should buy the tickets at the station. They don't have reserved seats, are not intended for a particular train, and never have discounts. When you're ready to board the train, you stamp the tickets in a little white, red and green machine by the track side.
When checking the timetables on the Trenitalia site, you have to use the Italian names of the cities: Roma, Firenze, Venezia, Milano.
It would make far more sense to fly into Rome and home from Amsterdam, and to proceed Rome - Florence (with a day trip to Pisa)- Venice - Milan - Paris - Amsterdam. This would avoid all round trips except the short trip between Florence and Pisa.
For the trip from Milan to Paris, it would make most sense to fly. I use www.skyscanner.net to find budget flights within Europe. Remember that most budget airlines have strict baggage limits.
If you don't want to fly, you have two other options:
Take the overnight Thello train, which also has advance discounts, but is, shall we say, rather primitive in its services.
Take a day train from Milan to Paris, perhaps with an overnight stay en route to break the long trip.
You can check both options on the Trenitalia site. For the day trains, it will show you where you'd have to change trains, and these cities would be logical places to spend a night. You can buy tickets as far as that city on the Trenitalia site, and from there to Paris on the French rail site. Both have advance purchase discounts. On the trains from Milan to the next city, the best discount is called the Smart fare.
On almost all routes, both on the Italian site and on the French site, you can get the best discounts by traveling at odd times of day, especially on very early trains (before 8 AM). The discounts sell out quickly and once they're sold out, there won't be more. If you can't finalize your plans in time to get the discounts, you'll end up paying considerably more. However, I still doubt that the rail pass would be cheaper. If you aren't eligible for youth passes, the next cheaper option is the Saver pass, for two people who always travel together. But remember to add the cost of reservations to the cost of the pass!
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...005817f90aRCRD
http://be.voyages-sncf.com/en/
Keep in mind that the trips between major cities in Italy (Rome, Florence, Venice, and Milan) will be on fast trains, which have a mandatory reservation fee of €10 per trip, not included in the cost of the pass. You can get great discounts on all the trains you'll need if you buy well in advance. For the Italian trains, you should try to buy 120 days in advance. I'm not sure what the optimum time is to buy tickets on the French rail site. Both sites allow you to print your tickets at home.
I agree that you are making too many round trips between Florence and other cities, and between Paris and Amsterdam. This would cost you considerable time and money.
The only round trip that would make sense would be between Florence and Pisa, which you haven't planned. This is a very short trip, on a cheap regional trains, for which you shouldn't buy tickets in advance. It's an easy day trip from Florence, and you should buy the tickets at the station. They don't have reserved seats, are not intended for a particular train, and never have discounts. When you're ready to board the train, you stamp the tickets in a little white, red and green machine by the track side.
When checking the timetables on the Trenitalia site, you have to use the Italian names of the cities: Roma, Firenze, Venezia, Milano.
It would make far more sense to fly into Rome and home from Amsterdam, and to proceed Rome - Florence (with a day trip to Pisa)- Venice - Milan - Paris - Amsterdam. This would avoid all round trips except the short trip between Florence and Pisa.
For the trip from Milan to Paris, it would make most sense to fly. I use www.skyscanner.net to find budget flights within Europe. Remember that most budget airlines have strict baggage limits.
If you don't want to fly, you have two other options:
Take the overnight Thello train, which also has advance discounts, but is, shall we say, rather primitive in its services.
Take a day train from Milan to Paris, perhaps with an overnight stay en route to break the long trip.
You can check both options on the Trenitalia site. For the day trains, it will show you where you'd have to change trains, and these cities would be logical places to spend a night. You can buy tickets as far as that city on the Trenitalia site, and from there to Paris on the French rail site. Both have advance purchase discounts. On the trains from Milan to the next city, the best discount is called the Smart fare.
On almost all routes, both on the Italian site and on the French site, you can get the best discounts by traveling at odd times of day, especially on very early trains (before 8 AM). The discounts sell out quickly and once they're sold out, there won't be more. If you can't finalize your plans in time to get the discounts, you'll end up paying considerably more. However, I still doubt that the rail pass would be cheaper. If you aren't eligible for youth passes, the next cheaper option is the Saver pass, for two people who always travel together. But remember to add the cost of reservations to the cost of the pass!
Jul 30th, 2014, 03:38 AM
#7
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 7,956
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looking again at your plans, it seems that you may be planning to make this trip in too short a time. At an absolute minimum, you will need 14 nights on the ground for this trip: 3 nights in Rome, 2 nights in Florence, 2 nights in Venice, 2 nights in Milan, 3 nights in Paris and 2 nights in Amsterdam. In order to see Pisa from Florence, you'd have to leave Rome early in the morning, check into your hotel in Florence, and see part of the city that afternoon. The next morning, you could visit some more of the city, then take your trip to Pisa in the afternoon. The following day, leave Florence early so that you can see some of Venice on your first day.
This plan would be shortchanging several of the cities, especially Rome and Paris, which are large cities with lots to see. Three weeks would be much better.
This plan would be shortchanging several of the cities, especially Rome and Paris, which are large cities with lots to see. Three weeks would be much better.
Jul 30th, 2014, 06:58 AM
#8
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,014
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How much time do you actually have?
How about this? Fly into Amsterdam.
Day 1 arrive Amsterdam
Day 2 Amsterdam
Day 3 Amsterdam in the morning, mid afternoon to Paris, sleep in Paris
Day 4 Paris
Day 5 Paris
Day 6 Paris
Day 7 early flight to Venice
Day 8 Venice
Day 9 morning in Venice, afternoon train to Florence, sleep in Florence
Day 10 Day trip to Pisa and Luca
Day 11 Florence, take early evening train to Rome, get taxi to hotel, sleep in Rome
Day 12 Rome
Day 13 Rome
Day 14 Rome
Day 15, Depart for home
No time for Milan, and if you do not have 15 days, something else has to change.
How about this? Fly into Amsterdam.
Day 1 arrive Amsterdam
Day 2 Amsterdam
Day 3 Amsterdam in the morning, mid afternoon to Paris, sleep in Paris
Day 4 Paris
Day 5 Paris
Day 6 Paris
Day 7 early flight to Venice
Day 8 Venice
Day 9 morning in Venice, afternoon train to Florence, sleep in Florence
Day 10 Day trip to Pisa and Luca
Day 11 Florence, take early evening train to Rome, get taxi to hotel, sleep in Rome
Day 12 Rome
Day 13 Rome
Day 14 Rome
Day 15, Depart for home
No time for Milan, and if you do not have 15 days, something else has to change.
Jul 30th, 2014, 09:13 AM
#9
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well the OP hasn't come back - but I have a horrible feeling that all that toing and froing is because those are DAY TRIPS - not actually spending overnights in those cities.
If so - you just don't have nearly enough time for this trip.
You can certainly do Pisa as a day trip from Florence. But Venice and Rome - while physically possible - will give you next to no time to do/see anything in two wonderful cities.
Similar for Amsterdam from Paris. It's possible to get back and forth in a day but not really see anything.
If you tell us how many days you actually have on the ground (not counting the day you arrive and depart) people can give you useful recos.
If so - you just don't have nearly enough time for this trip.
You can certainly do Pisa as a day trip from Florence. But Venice and Rome - while physically possible - will give you next to no time to do/see anything in two wonderful cities.
Similar for Amsterdam from Paris. It's possible to get back and forth in a day but not really see anything.
If you tell us how many days you actually have on the ground (not counting the day you arrive and depart) people can give you useful recos.
Jul 30th, 2014, 09:31 AM
#10
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pisa - Florence
Florence - Venice (and back to Florence)
Florence - Rome (and back to Florence)
Florence - Milan
Milan - Paris
Paris - Amsterdam (and back to Paris)
I think getting a France-Italy Railpass would only be warranted if you are taking day trains Paris to Venice and Milan to Paris - overnight Thello trains that connect these cities give just 215% off on the base - full price - yes there are discounted tickets if booked far in advance you can get that are cheaper overall than the 25% discounted tickets (with a discount however you do not use a day on your flexipass - only for things 100% covered do you do that.
Day trains I believe are covered for the supplement fees bvienci talks about.
And Paris to Amsterdam and back is only done by Thalys (www.thalys.com) trains and these have a hefty supplement for railpass holders that is actually - the supplement alone - more expensive than the cheapest tickets you can buy again if you act months in advance as they are sold in limited numbers - but I booked 39 euro fares recently without problem - this is as cheap or cheaper than the supplement using your pass would incur plus having to burn a day on the pass.
But if you want to wait until Paris to get tickets then the passholder fare would be far cheaper than full fare - about $200 each way I think on these trains.
And your three Italian train trips again be sure to go to www.trenitalia.com or www.raileurope.com (RE now offers fares even lower than trenitalia.com at times IME and you can pay in dollars - credit cards used abroad have a 3% fee often attached to the purchase price so RE could well be cheaper on some trains (not nearly all).
Even full fare would not justify a pass.
So unless you are going each way to Paris by day train and do not want to pre-purchase Italian tickets (discounted tickets have restrictions on changes and refunds I think) - then maybe - as bvienci says go check the prices for discounted tickets and full fare if you want flexibility and then if close always go for the pass.
Great sources of info on trains in those countries: www.seat61.com (great info on discounted tickets); www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.
You don't say your ages - if you are under 26 then you can buy a youthpass and those are cheaper so could be different, especially in Italy on a walk-up bases (or may not be).
Florence - Venice (and back to Florence)
Florence - Rome (and back to Florence)
Florence - Milan
Milan - Paris
Paris - Amsterdam (and back to Paris)
I think getting a France-Italy Railpass would only be warranted if you are taking day trains Paris to Venice and Milan to Paris - overnight Thello trains that connect these cities give just 215% off on the base - full price - yes there are discounted tickets if booked far in advance you can get that are cheaper overall than the 25% discounted tickets (with a discount however you do not use a day on your flexipass - only for things 100% covered do you do that.
Day trains I believe are covered for the supplement fees bvienci talks about.
And Paris to Amsterdam and back is only done by Thalys (www.thalys.com) trains and these have a hefty supplement for railpass holders that is actually - the supplement alone - more expensive than the cheapest tickets you can buy again if you act months in advance as they are sold in limited numbers - but I booked 39 euro fares recently without problem - this is as cheap or cheaper than the supplement using your pass would incur plus having to burn a day on the pass.
But if you want to wait until Paris to get tickets then the passholder fare would be far cheaper than full fare - about $200 each way I think on these trains.
And your three Italian train trips again be sure to go to www.trenitalia.com or www.raileurope.com (RE now offers fares even lower than trenitalia.com at times IME and you can pay in dollars - credit cards used abroad have a 3% fee often attached to the purchase price so RE could well be cheaper on some trains (not nearly all).
Even full fare would not justify a pass.
So unless you are going each way to Paris by day train and do not want to pre-purchase Italian tickets (discounted tickets have restrictions on changes and refunds I think) - then maybe - as bvienci says go check the prices for discounted tickets and full fare if you want flexibility and then if close always go for the pass.
Great sources of info on trains in those countries: www.seat61.com (great info on discounted tickets); www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.
You don't say your ages - if you are under 26 then you can buy a youthpass and those are cheaper so could be different, especially in Italy on a walk-up bases (or may not be).
