Train from Barcelona to Paris - overnight with sleeper cars?
Oct 1st, 2011, 07:03 AM
#1
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Train from Barcelona to Paris - overnight with sleeper cars?
We are a family of 7 (with kids 11-18) going on a Med. cruise that will disembark in Barcelona. We are considering spending 2 nights in Paris postcruise. When looking at the map, it looks easy, a straight shot north.Is there an overnight train with nice sleeper cars? We would need a triple and quad. Also, would the train station in Barcelona store our luggage for the day (after we disembark the ship but before we leave for Paris)?
In Paris, where is the train station?
Any ideas or suggestions?
Thanks!
In Paris, where is the train station?
Any ideas or suggestions?
Thanks!
Oct 1st, 2011, 08:37 AM
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First, most big cities have muliple train stations. Barcelona has a main one, but they also have others. However, Paris is so big it has many train stations, at least five major ones (and I might be forgetting one). All the trains can't come into the train station, and the rail lines have to extend in the right direction, so the place any train comes in depends on its route. What difference does it make anyway exactly where a specific train comes in to central Paris? You'll have to get somewhere else. The ticket will tell the train station when you buy it, if you really want to know so as to pick a hotel close to where you arrive. Given it is coming from the SE, I think it would probably come into Gare Austerlitz on the Left Bank. You wouldn't want to stay around there, anyway, that's not a good area for hotels or a convenient place to be.
They do have an overnight train from Barcelona to Paris, leaves around 8 pm. I don't know anything about its comfort, I suppose it is fine, most trains in Western Europe are. It will probably be pretty expensive for such a large group, I'd bet Easyjet from BCN to Paris would be a lot cheaper for your family. Their fares are only around 25 euro, even though there are some addons to that, it's still a lot cheaper (and quicker). There is a 15 euro addon for checking a bag and about 8 euro for using a credit card, but that is still dirt cheap total compared to a sleeper car on a train. Those will probably be around 75 euro or more per person for the cheapest group sleeping car (four people in a cabin) at a discount rate. Of course, it's a lot quicker to fly, also.
YOu would have to get into Paris from the airport then, of course. If I had only two days in Paris, no way would I spend 8 hours getting there by train.
Paris a sort of NE of where Barcelona is,
They do have an overnight train from Barcelona to Paris, leaves around 8 pm. I don't know anything about its comfort, I suppose it is fine, most trains in Western Europe are. It will probably be pretty expensive for such a large group, I'd bet Easyjet from BCN to Paris would be a lot cheaper for your family. Their fares are only around 25 euro, even though there are some addons to that, it's still a lot cheaper (and quicker). There is a 15 euro addon for checking a bag and about 8 euro for using a credit card, but that is still dirt cheap total compared to a sleeper car on a train. Those will probably be around 75 euro or more per person for the cheapest group sleeping car (four people in a cabin) at a discount rate. Of course, it's a lot quicker to fly, also.
YOu would have to get into Paris from the airport then, of course. If I had only two days in Paris, no way would I spend 8 hours getting there by train.
Paris a sort of NE of where Barcelona is,
Oct 1st, 2011, 08:49 AM
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"YOu would have to get into Paris from the airport then, of course. If I had only two days in Paris, no way would I spend 8 hours getting there by train."
If they travel by sleeper then they'll arrive early the next day.
If they stay overnight in Barcelona then fly the next day they won't be in Paris until the middle of the day
Only if they fly to Paris the previous day will they be in Paris before the sleeper train.
As for the train itself (just ignore the bit between London & Paris) - http://www.seat61.com/Spain.htm#Barcelona
If they travel by sleeper then they'll arrive early the next day.
If they stay overnight in Barcelona then fly the next day they won't be in Paris until the middle of the day
Only if they fly to Paris the previous day will they be in Paris before the sleeper train.
As for the train itself (just ignore the bit between London & Paris) - http://www.seat61.com/Spain.htm#Barcelona
Oct 1st, 2011, 10:05 AM
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You mention you will be getting off a cruise - for which some people have a lot of luggage.
So you should be aware that the room for luggage in an overnight compartment is quite limited.
Also you would have to buy 2 compartments for 4 peoole each - or else possibly need to share one of them with a stranger. Do check the prices - these overnight sleeper trains aren;t cheap.
If you look at the bahn.de website it will show you all trains - and indicate which of the many Paris train stations this one will arrive at.
So you should be aware that the room for luggage in an overnight compartment is quite limited.
Also you would have to buy 2 compartments for 4 peoole each - or else possibly need to share one of them with a stranger. Do check the prices - these overnight sleeper trains aren;t cheap.
If you look at the bahn.de website it will show you all trains - and indicate which of the many Paris train stations this one will arrive at.
Oct 1st, 2011, 10:09 AM
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Thanks for the information. I just called Rail Europe because the websites were very confusing and I couldn't figure them out. The prices I was given seem extremely high. For example, for 1 person in the 4 person berth it is $168. Then they said we would need a double and that is $383 per person!
Does this sound normal? Flights would be a much better deal.
Does this sound normal? Flights would be a much better deal.
Oct 1st, 2011, 10:32 AM
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It may be normal for Raileurope, they are a travel agency and have a markup over the face value of the ticket, of course.
I saw a discount fare of 75 euro for the cheapest berth in a T4 cabin for some date in mid-October. That is around $105. So $168 is a big markup over that, but the fares could vary on the date you chose from what I saw, also, they can vary a lot depending on the exact date or day of the week. I don't know about doubles, I thought anyone could book a T4 berth, but then you wouldn't have your own cabin, of course. If you want your own cabin, it will cost a lot more.
I just looked at the French railway website, that's all, since the train ended in France I figured it would be on there, and it was. I use www.voyages-sncf.com. Those cheap fares I saw were not normal tickets, I presume they were prepaid and nonrefundable. So if you don't make it, you lost the entire fare. Raileurope's were probably regular fare, also, so that makes a big difference.
As for flying, if you were going to leave at night anyway, you could also fly at night and you would not get there late the next day. It's just personal preference. I don't want to spend 8 hours on a train, it is boring to me, but with a bunch of kids, it might not matter to them. Easyjet does have flights leaving BCN around 5 pm and you'd get into Paris by 7 pm. If you are leaving by train at 8 pm anyway, you aren't going to be doing anything great in those hours.
But, it's just personal preference.You'd have to compare the costs of the two methods, as you would avoid a hotel night cost by train, which I imagine would add up for that big a family.
Buying tickets from some European railway (Spanish or French, whatever) should cost around 75-100 euro per person, I would imagine, for discount nonrefundable tickets in a T4 berth). If they don't allow two people to book one and sleep with strangers costs will rise, but they gave me the option of booking one on SNCF even for only one person, I think. I'm not expert on all those group car options, though.
I would presume people don't have more baggage on a cruise than any other way, but don't know -- meaning one suitcase per person.
If you can't handle buying tickets yourself online, obviously the fare through Raileurope is very expensive and you can't do that. I don't find the European websites confusing, but some people do, I know. I don't understand why they quote a double car or why you must have that.
I saw a discount fare of 75 euro for the cheapest berth in a T4 cabin for some date in mid-October. That is around $105. So $168 is a big markup over that, but the fares could vary on the date you chose from what I saw, also, they can vary a lot depending on the exact date or day of the week. I don't know about doubles, I thought anyone could book a T4 berth, but then you wouldn't have your own cabin, of course. If you want your own cabin, it will cost a lot more.
I just looked at the French railway website, that's all, since the train ended in France I figured it would be on there, and it was. I use www.voyages-sncf.com. Those cheap fares I saw were not normal tickets, I presume they were prepaid and nonrefundable. So if you don't make it, you lost the entire fare. Raileurope's were probably regular fare, also, so that makes a big difference.
As for flying, if you were going to leave at night anyway, you could also fly at night and you would not get there late the next day. It's just personal preference. I don't want to spend 8 hours on a train, it is boring to me, but with a bunch of kids, it might not matter to them. Easyjet does have flights leaving BCN around 5 pm and you'd get into Paris by 7 pm. If you are leaving by train at 8 pm anyway, you aren't going to be doing anything great in those hours.
But, it's just personal preference.You'd have to compare the costs of the two methods, as you would avoid a hotel night cost by train, which I imagine would add up for that big a family.
Buying tickets from some European railway (Spanish or French, whatever) should cost around 75-100 euro per person, I would imagine, for discount nonrefundable tickets in a T4 berth). If they don't allow two people to book one and sleep with strangers costs will rise, but they gave me the option of booking one on SNCF even for only one person, I think. I'm not expert on all those group car options, though.
I would presume people don't have more baggage on a cruise than any other way, but don't know -- meaning one suitcase per person.
If you can't handle buying tickets yourself online, obviously the fare through Raileurope is very expensive and you can't do that. I don't find the European websites confusing, but some people do, I know. I don't understand why they quote a double car or why you must have that.
Oct 1st, 2011, 01:58 PM
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I checked out EasyJet. The cost is $42.95usd one way. That sounds very low. What kind of plane is it? Are they safe?
Thanks for this option. It is much less than any train ticket I have priced. Now I need to factored in everything else.
Thanks for this option. It is much less than any train ticket I have priced. Now I need to factored in everything else.
Oct 1st, 2011, 05:49 PM
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I don;t understand these questions about 2 people costing more. Of course it costs more. You have to pay for each berth individually. If you get one of these 75 euro deals you would have to pay 300 euros for the compartment with 4 people and 225 euros for the other compartment - assuming you don;t mind sharing with a stranger. The cost is not per compartment - it is per berth - with one person in each berth.
Oct 1st, 2011, 07:20 PM
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I'm sorry, but with only two days, I'd skip Paris and spend the time exploring and enjoying Barcelona. Paris is a world onto it's own, not something you add for a day or less at the end of a tour. Sometimes "free" advice can be worth just what you pay for.
Oct 3rd, 2011, 02:24 AM
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Considering that you are seven probably with luggage it seems that iberiantraveler is right in suggesting you enjoy Barcelona which is a lovely place and leave Paris for another day.
Easyjet planes are very good, and it is an inexpensive way to travel in Europe ,of course luggage is charged separately, I do not remember if you can take one piece of luggage or not but luggage is usually an issue. The only advange of the train that I can think of is that if you take a train over night you avoid paying for the hotel and most likely the train will leave you in a train station in the center of Paris. You can of course choose a hotel nearby there are many near all the train stations and avoid the transportarion expense, which in the case of flying is expensive.
Having said all this, Barcelona is a fascinating destination and you surely have a great time in there.
Easyjet planes are very good, and it is an inexpensive way to travel in Europe ,of course luggage is charged separately, I do not remember if you can take one piece of luggage or not but luggage is usually an issue. The only advange of the train that I can think of is that if you take a train over night you avoid paying for the hotel and most likely the train will leave you in a train station in the center of Paris. You can of course choose a hotel nearby there are many near all the train stations and avoid the transportarion expense, which in the case of flying is expensive.
Having said all this, Barcelona is a fascinating destination and you surely have a great time in there.
Oct 3rd, 2011, 02:54 AM
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www.seat61.com/spain have a look at how crammed in you will be
Sleepers in Spain(and generally) SUCK mainly on the plain...
and the mountains...and the valleys...
It will take you 2 days just to get over the "train lag"
Just do not do or make more time and if you must fly...
www.skyscanner.net cheap Stuff booked in advance
Personally would head over to Costa Brave beautiful
pick up a little sunfrance.com if time.
Good luck you will need it!
Sleepers in Spain(and generally) SUCK mainly on the plain...
and the mountains...and the valleys...
It will take you 2 days just to get over the "train lag"
Just do not do or make more time and if you must fly...
www.skyscanner.net cheap Stuff booked in advance
Personally would head over to Costa Brave beautiful
pick up a little sunfrance.com if time.
Good luck you will need it!
Oct 3rd, 2011, 08:00 AM
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Thanks for this information. I just had a look at the train and it really doesn't look that bad. I had a talk with my husband and kids and the strange thing is, they want to ride the overnight train. I personally don't think it will be the best but my kids seem to think it will be fun (and my husband!)
Not having enough time in Paris is the big issue for me. I realized that when I first considered it. On the other hand, my kids may not have another chance to see Paris. For some reason, Paris is a dream for every little girl. That is the first place my girls asked to go when we started planning this trip and I told them it wouldn't be possible with a cruise but then I read on Cruise Critic that others have done this option.
Whew! I have a lot to consider!
Not having enough time in Paris is the big issue for me. I realized that when I first considered it. On the other hand, my kids may not have another chance to see Paris. For some reason, Paris is a dream for every little girl. That is the first place my girls asked to go when we started planning this trip and I told them it wouldn't be possible with a cruise but then I read on Cruise Critic that others have done this option.
Whew! I have a lot to consider!
Oct 3rd, 2011, 08:09 AM
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I have taken this train several times and a 4-berth compartment is as night trains go plenty spacious IMO - kids will love an overnight train more than just another plane trip IMO - check out these sights for info on the Talgo night trains - www.seat61.com; wwwricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - check the later for prices in dollars - sometimes RailEurope may have cheaper fares than on their site and this agency, whom I've used for years, can find them, if they are offered. But try www.voyages-sncf.com if you can retrieve the ticket in Spain or print it out at home - if not be sure you can pick up the ticket in Barcelona.
Oct 3rd, 2011, 09:37 AM
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PalenQ - Do you mean the Elipsos train? We even thought about getting a 2 compartment first class and 4 compartment tourist class. It is unclear on their website but it seems to state that a child 11 or under can share a bed with an adult. Does this mean there can be a total of 5 people in the berth? If so, we would get a 2 berth with shower and 4 berth without.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Oct 3rd, 2011, 09:49 AM
#15
I've taken this train several times. It is comfortable if you spring for sleeping accommodations. I would not use Raileurope which is, BTW, the North American marketing arm for the French National Railways. You would be much better off using an agency such as Budget Europe Travel Service (they have a website) for tickets and remember those trains do NOT run every day in the so-called "off" season.
Oct 3rd, 2011, 09:57 AM
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The excellent Elipsos trainhotel leaves central Barcelona (Franca station, right in the heart of the city) at 21:05 every night, arriving Paris gare d'Austerlitz in central Paris at around 09:00 next morning.
See the virtual tour at www.elipsos.com. Bunk beds on a train? My kids love that! Compartments are compact, but cosy.
It has 4 berth tourist class sleepers with washbasin, 2-berth sleepers with washbasin and 2 berth Gran Clase sleepers with shower and toilet.
The train also has a cafe-bar car with full-length polished wooden bar and bar-stools, and an elegant restaurant car. No tatty budget airline plastic cutlery here!
Fares in a 4-berth start at around 72 euros off-peak or 89 euros at peak times, if you book in advance, meaning a month or two, certainly more than 2 weeks. There are fares from 110 euros per person to travel in a 2-bed sleeper with breakfast, if two people travel together.
You can book it at www.tgv-europe.com with ticket collection at Paris (so only use it starting there) but don't select 'United States' as your country, select 'Antarctic' to avoid being bumped to Rail Europe.
Going north, you can book it at www.renfe.com (if you get a glitch where a drop down box isn't populating properly, switch back to Spanish and it'll work).
You can book it in the USA at www.raileurope.com (or in Oz .com.au if you're Australian etc, etc) the premium for going through a middle man like Rail Europe in this case isn't too high, just a few fees on top that you can avoid by booking at tgv-europ.com or renfe.com as suggested.
See the virtual tour at www.elipsos.com. Bunk beds on a train? My kids love that! Compartments are compact, but cosy.
It has 4 berth tourist class sleepers with washbasin, 2-berth sleepers with washbasin and 2 berth Gran Clase sleepers with shower and toilet.
The train also has a cafe-bar car with full-length polished wooden bar and bar-stools, and an elegant restaurant car. No tatty budget airline plastic cutlery here!
Fares in a 4-berth start at around 72 euros off-peak or 89 euros at peak times, if you book in advance, meaning a month or two, certainly more than 2 weeks. There are fares from 110 euros per person to travel in a 2-bed sleeper with breakfast, if two people travel together.
You can book it at www.tgv-europe.com with ticket collection at Paris (so only use it starting there) but don't select 'United States' as your country, select 'Antarctic' to avoid being bumped to Rail Europe.
Going north, you can book it at www.renfe.com (if you get a glitch where a drop down box isn't populating properly, switch back to Spanish and it'll work).
You can book it in the USA at www.raileurope.com (or in Oz .com.au if you're Australian etc, etc) the premium for going through a middle man like Rail Europe in this case isn't too high, just a few fees on top that you can avoid by booking at tgv-europ.com or renfe.com as suggested.
Oct 3rd, 2011, 07:20 PM
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Thanks for all of the info. It is very much appreciated. I must admit, I am a bit overwhelmed by the options to book.
Can I just book direct at www.elipsos.com?
Also, I do not want to be in a berth with a stranger. We are an odd number. What is the best way to go about this? Can a berth for 4 be booked and then my 11 year old can be put in with an adult to make 5 in the room (of course paying for her too)? Then we can book a berth for 2. When I called Rail Europe, the rude lady said, "You have to book for 3 and 4 and they 4th person will can be a stranger. You cannot pay for the 4th space" This doesn't sound right.
Also, I would want the tickets mailed to me beforehand. Is this possible?
We are going June 15th. When is the best time to book?
Can I just book direct at www.elipsos.com?
Also, I do not want to be in a berth with a stranger. We are an odd number. What is the best way to go about this? Can a berth for 4 be booked and then my 11 year old can be put in with an adult to make 5 in the room (of course paying for her too)? Then we can book a berth for 2. When I called Rail Europe, the rude lady said, "You have to book for 3 and 4 and they 4th person will can be a stranger. You cannot pay for the 4th space" This doesn't sound right.
Also, I would want the tickets mailed to me beforehand. Is this possible?
We are going June 15th. When is the best time to book?
Oct 3rd, 2011, 10:45 PM
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I've used night trains a number of times in Europe. They are convenient and comfortable. When you compare costs remember that you are saving the cost of a hotel room for the night. Also, there are no baggage fees on trains.
The TrainHotel EN475 EuroNight which departs from Barcelona Estacion de Franca at 20h00 just may have T-3 compartments. I have seen them on some night trains. A T-3 plus a T-4 would serve you well. I suggest that you contact B.E.T.S. Use the link from PalenQ and call the toll free number. They are in Ann Arbor. Byron and Linda are very experienced and helpful and can sell any European rail product. I buy my rail passes from B.E.T.S. For shipping they use FedEx, at a cost of about $10.
For an illustrated introduction to trains in Europe I suggest http://tinyurl.com/eym5b. Part 3 discusses night trains.
I tried the elipsos site. It is very clunky. I use the German Rail site http://tinyurl.com/c9jp54 for schedules and train details, but not tickets or reservations.
Ask Byron or Linda for the best time to book. I think that the tickets are valid for 6 months. You may get a better deal if you book before December 31. Prices go up every year. If you buy in 2011 you'll probably get 2011 prices.
The TrainHotel EN475 EuroNight which departs from Barcelona Estacion de Franca at 20h00 just may have T-3 compartments. I have seen them on some night trains. A T-3 plus a T-4 would serve you well. I suggest that you contact B.E.T.S. Use the link from PalenQ and call the toll free number. They are in Ann Arbor. Byron and Linda are very experienced and helpful and can sell any European rail product. I buy my rail passes from B.E.T.S. For shipping they use FedEx, at a cost of about $10.
For an illustrated introduction to trains in Europe I suggest http://tinyurl.com/eym5b. Part 3 discusses night trains.
I tried the elipsos site. It is very clunky. I use the German Rail site http://tinyurl.com/c9jp54 for schedules and train details, but not tickets or reservations.
Ask Byron or Linda for the best time to book. I think that the tickets are valid for 6 months. You may get a better deal if you book before December 31. Prices go up every year. If you buy in 2011 you'll probably get 2011 prices.
Oct 4th, 2011, 05:36 AM
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When I called Rail Europe, the rude lady said, "You have to book for 3 and 4 and they 4th person will can be a stranger. You cannot pay for the 4th space" This doesn't sound right.>
I also advise calling Byron at BETS 800-441-2387 for info on any RailEurope product - they are a RE agent but you will only IME get friendly helpful advice without pressure to buy - I also have bought railpasses from them for years and can testify to their expertise.
I also advise calling Byron at BETS 800-441-2387 for info on any RailEurope product - they are a RE agent but you will only IME get friendly helpful advice without pressure to buy - I also have bought railpasses from them for years and can testify to their expertise.
