Traffic Tickets in Italy

When I rented a car in Florence this summer I was sternly warned by the rental car co NOT to drive in the restricted town center. To get to my hotel on the opposite side of town to check-out they directed me on a loop far around town.

You did the crime so you'll pay the fine - and no doubt your hire company will add an admin fee on top of that.

Just because you didn't have any interaction with the police doesn't mean that you weren't noticed by the police either directly or by a camera

I think you may find an answer here:
http://www.firenzeturismo.it/content/view/81/26/lang,en_EN/

Sorry that your holidays turned into such an expensive experience.

We had slightly difference experience. Whilst driving on the autoroute we came to one of the toll gates. It would not accept our credit card for some reason, no matter how hard we tried. Eventually the gate opened and let us through. We were not sure what that meant. However, months, nearly a year I think, later an infringement notice came asking for the amount of the toll plus wacking amounts of Euros for admin fees. We hummed an hawed but paid the whole lot figuring we knew there had been a problem and that if we fussed it would probably cost us even more. Also we wanted to be able to rent a car again in the future and did not want anything against our name to stop this. Very annoying and expensive particularly as we hadn't really done anything wrong. Schnauzer

might be worth contacting the local council / mayor with a "we found the place wonderful but were surprised by the traffic violation"

I doubt it will work and you will probably have to pay but you never know.

Eleven months after returning home in 2006 we received a ticket for a similar offense. You can read the long thread about this below. Although I intended to pay the ticket, (well, sort of..) it is still sitting here at my desk. We have returned to Italy once since then and nothing has happened although we have not rented a car again...maybe I will pay the ticket now that your post reminded me and since we may rent a car in the spring:


http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34910966

Hi K,

Did the notice come from the car company or the police?

If the former, they will probably bill your CC.

If the later, don't bother if you will never visit Europe again.

In 2003 we had the toll booth experience. It was late at night and all the gates were open. When we got to the next gate and didn't have a ticket, the guard gave us a citation for 93 euros. Since we were flying out early in the morning, we did nothing about it.

It's been 4 years and we have not heard anything----does anyone think we will?

oh geez.. one more thing to worry about when renting a car. guess the one day rental for a day trip out in tuscany may not be worth it after all....

We got a parking ticket in Sienna in May 2006. I asked how to handle it when we turned the car in, hoping the rental company would handle it and I could just pay them an additional fee. The agent told me he had a whole book of them and to throw it away and not worry about it. We never got a bill from anyone, I guess the police are less diligent in Sienna than Florence. Or my passport is flagged and I won't be allowed in the country next spring.

You know when you get a ticket in the States and the Highway Patrolman takes your license and goes back to his/her car for a while?

Well, they are checking for outstanding warrants over the computer. If you have them, life very quickly becomes infinitely more complex.

Warrants, including traffic and parking tickets, are like dark, odd-shaped lesions on your skin -- ignored at your peril.

If you ever plan to drive in Italy again, pay the fine.

If you commit a more serious crime in Europe and are never going back can you ignore that, too?

Not in Italy, but we received a ticket (I think it was for either speeding or driving in a restricted area) in the mail from Austria about three months after we returned from our trip. We couldn't read any of it and weren't sure what to do so we ended up calling Avis, our car rental company, and asking them for advice. They basically told us to ignore it and gave various reasons why, although honestly its been a few years and I don't remember what they were. We did ignore it, never heard anything else from them, and have rented numerous cars, in various countries (including Austria) since then and had no problems at all.

Perhaps you could call up the car rental agency and see if they can give you some advice? And before anyone says anything, I want to make it clear that I'm not saying not to pay it; I just wanted to share my experience.

Best wishes,
Tracy

In addition to my post above, I remembered posting an answer to ekscrunchy's similar situation so I found my post in the link that was given. Since I don't have the best memory, here is what I wrote:

Author: tcreath
Date: 12/09/2006, 08:48 am
I had a similar situation with a rental car in Austria last year. Hubby was driving through Salzburg last May while we were on vacation and must have been speeding. About four months after we returned we received a ticket that was mailed to us by Avis. We weren't sure what to do, so we called the Avis customer service number here in the US. The guy told my husband not to worry about it and to just throw it away. He said that they send those out quite often but since we are oversees it wouldn't be a problem. I was concerned that we would have trouble renting cars in Europe in the future but we went ahead and ignored it.

Its now been a year and a half and we've rented Avis while in Italy this past March and had absolutely no problems at all. It was never even brought up. We never even received another piece of correspondence about the ticket.

Tracy

Hi Tracy!
How was your trip to Japan?! Wonderful I hope!

My husband and I were in the Tuscany/Florence area of Italy in May of this year and we just received a ticket this week for the same type of violation. Our charge is 92.45 euro too. Did your paperwork have a website where you could pull up a photo of your rental car and tag? On that site there is a link to dispute the claim but when you click on it, it takes you back to the beginning and won't allow a dispute! We have also been charged almost $70 from our car rental company this month. That charge came through first and I called my credit card company to dispute it and requested a copy of the charge. I'm thinking now that it is related to this traffic ticket. I just found out that someone I know in my town was in Italy in May and has just received the same thing in the mail. I feel like this is a scam against American tourists. We are totally unaware of violating any rules and certainly caused no harm. It is very difficult navigating around Florence and the day they claim this happened, we were making our way back from the countryside to a hotel by the Florence airport as we were flying home the next day. Not sure if we are going to pay this or not. I may try contacting the Italian embassy here or the US embassy in Italy. I wanted to return to Italy next year but not so sure now. I wonder if the USA treats visitors this way.

It isn't a scam, and the fact that you didn't intend any harm is completely irrelevant. If you are going to drive around a foreign country, you have the responsibility of learning what the signs mean. People should stop trying to get out of something they did. These laws exist in order to help preserve the areas, so that there is something left in the future for tourists and locals to actually appreciate. I live in an area with lots of irresponsible and selfish tourists, also, so I'm coming from the position of someone who is affected negatively by tourists who choose to rent cars and damage the local areas and environment.

Jill, Japan was absolutely fabulous! I wasn't sure what to expect but Japan definitely blew my expectations away. I was surprised by the extreme lack of English, but it didn't bother us a bit. Well, except maybe when trying to find a restaurant that had a menu we could read or at least see pictures! But overall it was a wonderful experience. The people were very polite and friendly, the country is beautiful, and we saw some amazing sights. I would go back again in a heartbeat! I'm working on a trip report on the Asia board, although its going a little slow as I jumped into work right away and am trying to get over the jetlag. Thanks for asking!!

How is your Austria itinerary coming along?

Tracy

>I feel like this is a scam against American tourists. We are totally unaware of violating any rules and certainly caused no harm. <

A. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

B. It behooves one to learn the traffic rules if one is going to drive.

C. How do you know that you caused no harm?

Perhaps you have never driven in a foreign city...even if you study the road signs (and believe me we purchased all the books and did study), it's very difficult to navigate in the city. I think anyone who has been to Florence will agree with me. By doing no harm, I meant we didn't run off the roadway, hit anyone or any objects, cause a traffic accident, etc. Are you this unforgiving to foreign tourists in the USA? Maybe if we were, they would go away. Hey, there's an idea! I live in a high tourist area myself and between spring break, bike week, Nascar, snow birds and family vacationers, we see lots of lost people making their way. I would hate to know that they are being fined for simple (and harmless) driving infractions. I was only replying to the original posting and wondering if anyone else has also been charged from their rental car companies in relationship to the traffic violation. I thought this forum was just a way to find out if this situation is legitimate. How do you know it's not a scam?

Redlocks, as I mentioned above, I would consider contacting your rental car dealership. They should have a customer service number here in the US and hopefully will be of help.

Our ticket was for the same thing in Salzburg; driving in a restricted area. We got lost a couple of times in the center of town and I'm assuming we were driving in an area that only locals were supposed to drive in because we were simply following traffic.

I don't know anything about the scams but I wouldn't assume that its all a scam. However, as I mentioned, we didn't pay because we couldn't figure out how to and were basically told by Avis to ignore it. We never heard another word about it and have rented cars in Europe several times since then without any problems.

Tracy

Oh, and I wouldn't pay attention to the negative comments. Yes, we had a travel guide and yes, we learned the "rules of the road". But when you are driving in a foreign country, in a city that is trafficy and confusing enough to begin with, without being fluent in that language, its very difficult to know when you are driving in a restricted area. We had absolutely no idea, and I'm sure there are thousands of people like you (the OP) and me who have been in this same position.

Tracy

hi,

the next question, always supposing you intend to pay is HOW?

a friend of mine [not me, honest injun] incurred a hospital bill in France. being english, she tried to get them to take details of her E111 [an EC document giving EC citizens reciprocal medical treatment] but to no avail.

on return home, she got a bill from the commune for about E100 which she paid in the only way she could think of, with a E100 note. IN THE POST.

about a year later [this is where I come in] she received a second bill for the same amount, threatening her with bailiffs if she didn't pay. after hours on the phone, she and the commune are at stale-mate - they want her to pay, she says she's paid.

Needless to say I have told her not to be so daft [think that's the word I used, it may have been stronger] and tell them to take a running jump [or however that translates in french].

leaving aside the morality of paying or not paying, just how would you set about paying this fine? [assuming you don't have a euro a/c]

what is actually going to happen if you don't?

regards, ann

As far as paying or not, you might want to actually take a look at your rental agreement. In most of them, you agree to operate the car in a lawful manner. They also give the rental agency the ability to charge you for administrative fees and if the legal authority hits them with the fine, it also lets them charge your credit card for the fine.

Redlocks: As I posted on your other thread - the $70 is almost certainly the admin fee charged by the rental agency to provide your information to the Italian authorities.

And don't be such a whinger - it is definitely not a scam against American tourists. Until the authroities got the info from Hertz ot whomever, they had no idea you were American. They only knew that someone w/ a rental car broke the rules. You could have been a Brit or Austrian - or even Italian.

So - pay or not - that is your choice. But quit whining about being scammed.

annhig, having problems paying was our big problem and why we ended up calling Avis. We tried to get a money order in euros but our bank and local western union claimed they couldn't give them to us. Since we couldn't just write a check, obviously can't send cash, and they didn't accept credit cards we couldn't figure out how to pay. That's when we called Avis, looking for advice, and was told to throw it out. I never did find out how to go about paying something like that.

Tracy

Thanks to those who offered positive advise and suggestions. I guess my frustration was mistaken for whining, but I was just trying to find out what others had experienced. There are so many scams out there that I felt it was reasonable to wonder if this could be one. Even my friends thought it could be and advised that I check it out somehow. That is why I tried this forum. I would like to know from the original poster (kswensson) if their tickets say "Notice of Payment Before Notification". Not sure what that means.

How can anyone assume that this is some sort of conspiracy against American tourists?

Many/most tickets in Europe (speeding, unauthorized access, etc) are issued from "video or camera evidence": a camera detects a car entering Florence's ZTL and tries to match the plate with a file of authorized vehicles. If it does not match, a ticket is issued to the owner of the car, in your case the rental car company. They give the police your home address and the ticket gets to your attention.
So there are no mean, angry carabinieri hunting down lost tourists.

There is one common difference in European signage: Whenever a traffic sign comes with the word "ZONE", it means that the regulation (speed limit, access limitation etc.) will not be repeated anywhere beyond that sign - until you pass the same sign crossed out, i.e. the end of the "zone".

>Perhaps you have never driven in a foreign city...Are you this unforgiving to foreign tourists in the USA? <

Yes and Yes.

Foreign drivers are responsible to know, understand and follow traffic laws in the United States. Citizens of the Unites States are responsible to know, understand and follow traffic laws in Europe. If you receive and do not pay a traffic fine, I wonder if some countries might arrest you during a future traffic stop because of outstanding traffic violations? There are places in the U.S.that do this. I once had a friend arrested,cuffed and hauled out of the Anchorage airport for unresolved violations when she was caught there parking illegally.

We join the long list of drivers who have fallen into the ZTL trap. This system of extracting huge sums from unsuspecting motorists is prevalent from Rome northward. We rented a car in Pisa this past March and toured Tuscany to Venice. We thought all went well until about 3 months ago when we received a charge on our credit card of 50 euros from the rental co. This was followed by 7 more charges of 50 euros each. 6 of the charges were on one day in Pisa over the course of an hour. There should be a warning when you rent a car and travel in Northern Italy that these Zona Transporta Limita signs mean that you will be photgraphed and fined large amounts of money if you enter these areas. The best thing to do is stay out of that part of Italy if you are renting a car. Our experience is going to cost upwards of $2000!!! There is nothing in Italy that is worth paying that kind of money. As far as I know, we don't have areas in the US where you can be fined just for driving on the city streets. This is something that should be published in the tour guide books in BIG letters.

>>>The best thing to do is stay out of that part of Italy if you are renting a car.<<<

The best thing to do is learn to read the traffic signs. Almost every official tourism website for the major cities in Italy have information about driving in the cities including about the ZTL.

The next time, make yourself a James Bond, rotating license tag holder. Make up a couple of numbers, but always have the real one, then if you see the police you can switch back to the real number, but the rest of the time have the fake ones showing.

I also have ideas on using jet packs to get around cities. Way better than either buses or metro.

:-0

dave

<<Zona Transporta Limita signs>>

This wasn't a clue to you that maybe you shouldn't be there?

<<The best thing to do is stay out of that part of Italy if you are renting a car.>>

No, the best thing to do is either learn the laws ahead of time or stop and ask someone if you can't figure out what the sign means.

Actually the sign reads Zona Traffico Limitato. My wife and I never saw the signs. We learned about them researching the reason for the fines. When your driving along in traffic trying to avoid an accident it's easy to miss a sign. It's not like it's posted in the middle of the road and they only put one sign at the beginning of the zone. My purpose of the post is to alert other drivers. We definitely won't be driving in Northern Italy again. There are a lot of drivers, including Italians,who receive these fines.

paulsc1

You are absolutely right but they will not do this as it restricts their ability to charge the admin fees.

Best advice in each and every case of Italian traffic ticket (unless you are an Italian resident) is sit it out and do not pay. They will find it impossible to recover.

"No, the best thing to do is either learn the laws ahead of time or stop and ask someone if you can't figure out what the sign means"

and this is while you are in a city you have never visited, with jet lag and whilst having 20 Fiat Puntos screaming at you for not travelling at 50% above the speed limit.

I don't think so...

One of the few signs worth remembering is the red/white circle that comes with uncounted add-ons or exceptions like on this ZTL sign:
http://italyfaves.typepad.com/.a/6a00e553d04c1b8833011570fe3252970b-320wi

But it is also used for roads restricted to residents, pedestrians, roads closed on certain days or hours, etc.
It means no motorized traffic beyond this point, unless/except reason a, b, x qualifies. Even if you can't figure out whether you belong any of those groups or if it's the right hour or day, the basic message stays the same: No motorized traffic beyond this point.

Whenever you see that sign, it can pay off to err on the safe side and refrain from entering a road designated this way.

My experience point out the ZTL along with other additional considerations with driving not encountered in the U.S. to those going to Italy for the first time has not been positive.

Their responses usually go like this:

We have driven elsewhere in Europe.
We have never gotten traffic tickets.
Therefore, we will be fine driving into Florence and Pisa.

Of course, 8 months after the trip, they curse up and down how rotten and sneaky the ZTL fines are.

I can't think of anything that can alert these folks before venturing into Florence unprepared.

By the way, Rick Steves warns about ZTL in his Italy guidebook.

"The best thing to do is stay out of that part of Italy if you are renting a car."

Ridiculous advice IMHO. Absolutely ridiculous. And how about driving in other European countries w/ all the speed cameras etc.?

What you should do is not drive anywhere unless you understand the rules of the road . . . . .

For Florence, click autovelox to show where the traffic cameras are and you can also click the various ZTL's.
http://news.comune.fi.it/muoversi/servizi.php?tipo=Accessi%20ZTL&servizi=Servizi

<<Actually the sign reads Zona Traffico Limitato. My wife and I never saw the signs. We learned about them researching the reason for the fines. When your driving along in traffic trying to avoid an accident it's easy to miss a sign.>>

I don't see why that is an excuse as it's the same thing even in your home country -- that when you are driving and trying to avoid accidents, it's easy to miss a sign. That's why you have to be a good driver and why people shouldn't casually drive in foreign countries if the can't be alert and pay attention to things. We have all kinds of tourists doing illegal things where I live and I can't tell you how many of them I've seen parking in areas with signs that forbid it (where they get large fines), turning onto streets where they are not allowed, etc.

I never studied Italian and what ZTL means is obvious, it should be to anyone who knows English. And it isn't some weird thing that only happens in Italy, we have areas in the US where people aren't allowed to drive without special residential permits.

Interesting thread. I rented a vehicle in Italy in Oct. 2008 and after my return i received four notices from the rental car company of traffic infractions. They charged my credit card 50 euros + VAT 20% handling fee and sent me copies of the violations.(all camera violations that i had no idea that i was doing anything wrong) The last of these notices was Nov. 2009. Guess what? I just received this date directly from the Verona police dept. a notice of a 90.64 euro fine. I called the rental company and found out that what they have charged my car for was a fee for providing the police my contact information- four times approx.$90=$360 for that! I was under the impression that the fee included the citation. WRONG!
So now the question is what to do. I ran across one thread that said there is a one year statute of limitations which would render there violation void. If that is true do i just ignore it or write them to that effect asking them to dismiss it? Any input to the above would be appreciated.

In your rental agreement, you agreed to a fee (evidently 50€) if the car rental company had to provide your info to the police. Are you sure the copies of the violations were from the rental company and not the company the Italian police have contracted to collect the ticket fees?

"I feel like this is a scam against American tourists." Oh please???

So, Australians, Germans, English etc don't get fined for breaking the traffic laws? Now you are sounding like an obnoxious American tourist.

Mmm, yes Florence is getting quite a reputation . Motorists beware. Check out my thread posted awhile ago - http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/florence-experts-traffic-violation-question.cfm

Really, driving in Florence should be left to the italians.

life is too short.