Tons of questions!!

>>6 days in Paris (not necessarily consecutive) and the rest in Brussels, Bruges, Amsterdam, Luxembourg, and Strasbourg.<<

You plan on 13 days there (hopefully the 13 days to not include arrival & departure day).

6 days Paris

7 days remain where you want to visit 5 different cities. So that means (subtracting 1/4 to 1/2 of a day for travel between cities).

3/4 of a day/1 night in Brussels
1 1/4 days/2 nights in Bruges
1 1/2 day/2 nights in Amsterdam
1/2 day/1 night in Luxembourg
3/4 day/1 night in Strasbourg.

Nope - that won't work !!! Remember, large cities have shops closed on Sundays. Christmas will limit the things first-timers can do (actually, we love Sundays & holidays in Europe - but we are not first timers)

Perhaps a better idea:

Get a flight to Amsterdam .

Spend 3 nights in Amsterdam.

Take the train to Paris & spend 6 nights there.

Take the train to Strasbourg, & spend 3 nights there.

Return to Paris for your flight home.

If you really like packing & unpacking & spending your time on trains, add Bruges betweeen Amsterdam & Paris - or even take the train from Amsterdam to Brussels, spend 3 hours there, then off to Paris.

check train schedules on
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

Stu Dudley

Why do you want to go to Luxembourg and Strasbourg?Are these all countries you have to go to? I would definitely spend Christmas in a bigger city as things close down early on Christmas Eve and sometimes even the day after Christmas.Give us some more information and we will be happy to help you plan.

The advantage of being in Amsterdam for Christmas is that the museums are open then, which I am not sure they are in other countries.

I have no actual facts, but somehow Strasburg seems a possible nice place to spend Christmas. How much will be close I do not know, better find out before going.
I would not spend time in Luxembourgh.
I know that in Strasbourg they have a famous Christmas Maket, which should make the city look very joyousThis year I am reading there will be an enormous Chritmas tree, skating rings and many concerts
around town. I do not know the dates may be this concerts take place in December but not necessarily in Christmas.
The Cathedral is magnificent and the whole old neighborhood La Petit France is very , very nice to walk around.
There are canals and of course a baateau muche that for a few euros can get you around, under bridges etc
The food is delicious, ah those choucroute garnie and so much more an the beer places and wine little places I am imagine that it might be a nice place for Christmas.

Thanks for your answers. I new in Fodors, so I made a mistake and did not tell you that I already have the tickets arriving and departing in Paris. Because of this I'll be in Paris at the begining of my trip, and I think is best if I stay in Paris the days near the departure day(december 26th).
So it will have to be christmas in Paris (any ideas???)

After reading your reply, I Know we can't go to so many places so what would you recomend I should do, knowing we want to be in Paris beginig and end of our trip.

Someone told me about strasbourg and Colmar. Should I stay only un France or go to another country not far away?

Thanks for the help

Luxembourg is usually not on a first timer's list. It is VERY expensive too.Most of the Christmas markets are usually closed before Christmas Eve.
I would think that a church service at Christmas at Notre Dame or smaller church might be very interesting?

Agree you're trying to do way too much. You're not allowing for:

holiday and even when you can do little
very short daylight hours
shorter hours some things are open in winter
the time it takes to find and check into hotel, unpack, figure out wher you and other things are - so many times in so few days

In 13 days (I hope all on the ground, not counting arrival and departure) 3 cities is plenty, esp when one is Paris

For your train and pass questions - yes the Benelux-France Pass can be used on all trains to all places you mention. In France it is valid on TGV trains but you must pay a 3 euro reservation fee that the pass won't cover but otherwise the fare is covered by the pass. In Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg (Benelux) you can hop on virtually any train anytime - seat reservations not even possible on most trains in those countries. And for the travel you envisage i'd say the pass would be a good deal - like many 2-country passes the first-class rate is not all that much more than the 2nd-class rate so i'd opt for that - in decades of using passes in Benelux i've rarely if ever not found ample empty seats in first class - 2nd class can be problematic at certain times of day and in first class you have wider seats - better chance of getting a window or aisle seat, more room for luggage, etc. - a more leisurely experience.
If you plan your itinerary carefully you will not have to take the Thalys train between Amsterdam or Brussels and Paris - this train, like TGVs requires reservations but imposes a really steep surcharge for railpass holders - of i think $30 in 2nd class and much more in 1st class, though in that class you do get decent comp food and wine.
But if you go Amsterdam to Bruges then you can take the IC trains you can just hop on and which are covered in full by the pass and from Bruges to Paris go via IC train to Lille then TGV to Paris - paying only the 3 euro TGV reservation fee - and travel time is about the same 2.5 hours all told, the same as going via Brussels and taking the Thalys train to Paris.
In any case for lots of great info on train travel in these countries and about passes i always refer to these great sources laden with objective info: www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com andhttp://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id39.html. I've traveled for years on trains in these countries so if you have any rail questions i'll be pleased to try to answer them. This pass is not marketed in Europe to my knowledge but only to foreign travelers so buy it in your home country. Some folk will point out that www.voyages-sncf.com, the French Railways site has great PREM fares for the TGVs to Strasbourg or Luxembourg but these have to be booked far in advance to guarantee them and they cannot usually be changed or refunded - with the pass you do have complete flexibility to travel as you want as you go.

Here is an idea:

Arrive at CDG on Sunday Dec 13.

Take a TGV (may be Thalys) from CGD to Brussels Midi station. Stow the bags at the station. Visit the Brussels main square (fabulous) for 2-3 hours.
Departures from CDG at 10:10 and 12:35 on Sundays. Allow 2 1/2 hrs between air landing & train departure. Trip is 1 3/4 hrs. They are futzing with the Dec 13 schedule on the Germain train site - so check updated schedules closer to your travel date.

Take a train from Brussels Midi to Amsterdam central. Many departures daily. Spend 3-4 nights in Amsterdam.

Take the Thalys/other from Amsterdam to Paris. Many departures. 3 1/4 hrs.

Stay 4 nights in Paris.

Take the TGV from Paris to Strasbourg. Many departures, 2 1/4 hrs. Stay 3 nights. Do a day trip to Colmar if you want (by train).

Take the TGV back to Paris & stay 2 nights.

Head home

Stu Dudley

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?

this site, run by German Railways (DB) is the best and easiest i have encountered for train schedules in all of Europe. If the dates you want are too far in advance just put a day in that does show up as train schedules often do not change that much - if there are hourly trains now there will be a year from now, etc.

The site Palenque gave you was the same one I offered earlier. In addition to Palenque's suggestion about changing dates if your travel date is too far in the future, quite often there are different schedules on different days of the week - particularily weekdays and weekends. Since you will arrive on a Sunday and may not want to go to Paris first, make sure you use a Sunday date if Dec 13 trains schedules are not "loaded" yet (like they aren't for Dec 13 travel to Amsterdam from CDG).

Stu Dudley

Sorry i did not read carefully and duplicated Stu's link. And you can also access the Dutch Railways web site www.ns.nl; France www.voyages-sncf.com and

for Belgium SNCB

www.b-rail.be/main/E/

In the IC/IR timetable, a more compact version of the railway timetable, ...
www.b-rail.be/nat/E/timetables/brochures/index.php

The bahn.de site will not give prices for trains not involving Germany usually but the national sites will so you can gauge the efficacy of a pass in money terms at least - of course IMO there are other pluses to passes than just cost effectiveness.

Ok, I read all the info you all send me.
Stu Dudley, Your itinerary seems great. My husband is wondering if is better Amsterdam than Bruges (someone is been talking to him about it). My flyght is the 13th but I arrive the 14th at 11 am in paris, but I think that is not much difference right?

Palenque, I cheked the trains tickets for the itinerary Stu Dudley advice in rail europe and for the fares that I saw is still cheaper to buy the europass Benelux- France, and pay de 3 euro extra fee for reservation (I cheked the fastest way to go to every place), I'm wrong?
Other thing that I didn't not understand is the train ticket been less expensive Paris Amsterdam than Paris Strasbourg, how can that be?
Thanks for everything.

Dutyfree,
Have you spend christmas in Paris? will be around 23, 24, 25, and leaving 26. Any tips on what to do the 24th? (in Colombia, where I'm from that night is the important not the 25th). And what about the 25th that everybody says everything is closed?

Other thing that I didn't not understand is the train ticket been less expensive Paris Amsterdam than Paris Strasbourg, how can that be?
Thanks for everything.>

Yes it could well be as the Thalys trains you must take Paris to Amsterdam have a Byzantine fare structure with some really cheap tickets available if you book far in advance but the closer the train date comes the more expensive the tickets get as there are only x number sold at each fare level - full price should be more than Paris-Strasbourg full price i would expect.

It is harder to get to Brugges than to Amsterdam to/from Paris.

Brugges is fantastic, but so is Amsterdam. If the weather is cold and/or rainy - I would prefer to be in Amsterdam.

We were in both cities in'07

Stu Dudley

If you do the 3 hr visit of Brussels on the way from CDG to Amsterdam (or Bruges), note that the main square is near the Brussels Central station. So you'll have to make a short trip from the Midi station (where the train arrives & departs) to the central station. There is storage for bags at the central station - don't know about the Midi station.

Stu Dudley

I have not spent Christmas there but New Years Eve back when I was in college studying French and Italian art. It was magical with the Christmas lights all up and down the Champs. People were happy,wine and champagne were flowing and it was a very special night.
Although Protestant in religion, I went to an Ash Wednesday service with a friend at Notre Dame and was mesmerized.The history filled the air within the church and the service(while in French)was interesting to watch. I thought that if you were actually in Paris for Christmas it might be on your list?
Because I fly for a US airline overseas everyweek, I said to be careful as you get closer to the Christmas holiday as each country seems to have its special hours. I have found that Christmas Eve and Christmas Day are usually with family and lots of things and places to eat are closed. Perhaps one of the Fodor Frenchmen could help you?
I think that you have gotten some great suggestions from persons above so I wish you a wonderful holiday trip. Let us know what you decide.

Hi Mar,

You have RT Paris airfare.

Is there a problem with spending 12 days in Paris?

You can daytrip to Dijon, Strasbourg, Lyon...... in a couple of hours.

Check train fares at www.voyages-sncf.com and compare to a railpass.
Railpass requires extra fee for many high-speed trains.

Enjoy your less frenetic visit to fewer places.

Railpass requires extra fee for many high-speed trains.>

Yes all of 3 euros for any in France - bout the same as a cup of coffee

You're getting a lot of good advice here but there is one thing missing from you.
What do you want to see and do? Do you want night life? Art & Architecture?

You said someone told you of "strasbourg and Colmar." What did they tell you that piqued your interests? If you don't think about these things you are well on your way to someone else's dream vacation.

Thanks for the tips, you keep sending. We'll decide and tell you.
What is an RT Paris airfare?

So everyone is just suppose to keep writing ideas for you without any input from you as to what you think you might want?

There's this thing, it's really quite new, so you may not have heard of it. It's called research.

LSky on Oct 29, 09 at 11:00am
So everyone is just suppose to keep writing ideas for you without any input from you as to what you think you might want?

There's this thing, it's really quite new, so you may not have heard of it. It's called research.>

More obnoxious FodorGarch babble - why don't you read the several inputs the OP has made and asked questions. Lose the attitude.

I will apologize for LSky.

Sorry guys if I bother you in any way. I can tell you that I been doing reserch for a month and a half now. The problem is that you have to take decisions but we have never been there, and as I suppose you know, sometimes what you see in internet is not the reality (hotels for example), and the trains that are so hard to understand.
That's why I decided to ask for advice from people that have experience in traveling europe, and have an objetive opinion.
I have look at all the web sites that you gave me and more.
Besides that I can return the favor if you need information about central america, and colombia.
Please feel free to tell me mot to trouble you any more.
Thanks

mariaca

LSky is "out of line". You are not.

Stu Dudley

Thanks Stu

We finally decided our itinerary !!!!!
Taking advice we settled for.

Paris 3 nigghts
Bruges 2 or 3 nights??
Strasbourg 2 or 3 nights??
Paris rest of the nights (4)

Is there more to see in Strasbourg or in Bruges? My husband and I don't agree (I love Bruges in the photos). Any advice?

I was wondering that since we are just going in 3 train trips (Paris-Bruges, Bruges-Strasbourg, Strasbourg-Paris), it is really worthed to buy the tickes in advance, it is really that big of a diference in money?
Do you know if its necessary for the Strasbourg- Paris to make a resevation, since we are traveling the 22th december, and everyone is going home for the holidays?

Thanks

Have you checked the train schedules to get from Bruges to Strasbourg???

lv........arr.........hrs.....changes....
6:26....13:41.....7:15.....1
18:04...09:41....15:36.....1...this is an overnight trip.

Both the changes require a station change in Paris from Nord to Est (20 min walk). The second change would be at night (not a nice area to walk in).

You would loose an entire day for the daytime trip, and I'll let you decide yourself if an overnight train is acceptable to you. This train schedule would not be acceptable to me - that's why I suggested heading north from CDG, then back to Paris, then to Strasbourg & back to Paris. I did not check airline possibilities from Bruges to Strasbourg - don't even know if Bruges has an airport.

If you really want to see Bruges, I would drop Strasbourg & visit Amsterdam instead. This way you can leave CDG & visit Bruges (perhaps Brussels on the way), then head to Amsterdam, then back to Paris. This would invlolve a lot less time sitting on trains & changing hotels. We did this CDG, Bruges, Amsterdam trip in '07.

I really don't think your itinerary is a good one - unless you are willing to travel all night for 15 hours with a train & station change in a not-so-nice-area of Paris. Also, your first day in Strasbourg would be a Sunday - when all the shops will be closed. They are closed on Monday morning too. Seems like the Strasbourg leg would be a bummer (US slang).

If you really want to visit Strasbourg & Bruges, I would visit Bruges from CDG, then back to Paris for several days, then to Strasbourg, then back to Paris.

Paris, Bruges, Strasbourg, Paris is too much lost travel time, IMO.

Two nights in Bruges is just about perfect. I would perhaps add a night if it is your first destination after arriving in Paris.

Don't get set on any itinerary until you check all the train schedules first.

Stu Dudley

Stu,
We knew that the train would be long, from other advice that I read, but I never imagine that it was going to be that bad. I really like more the idea of Amsterdam, it's a different country, we will talk about it, and get back to you.
Thanks god I found fodors!!

Mariaca,
Brugge will be a nice addition to your trip. We were there in 2007 and stayed at a perfect hotel, Hotel Heritage, which has a website. Location is wonderful, rooms not huge, but lovely, and the diningroom and cozy study with a fireplace are simply fabulous. The breakfast buffet included a good champagne and really excellent food. I got a very good price by booking ahead.

Also try dinner at a traditional Belgian restaurant, De Vlammsche Pot. The chicken waterzoi was divine, as was the beef in beer. Great frites and a warm atmosphere. It is a short walk from the Hotel Heritage.

As for train tickets - if you go the www.sncf-voyages.com (France Railways) online route and snag the discounted PREM fares then it would behoove you to do this in advance as just showing up you will pay a lot lot more - ditto for paris to Bruges and Bruges to Paris (best way to do Bruges-Strasbourg trek i believe) - go to www.thalys.com and try to score one of their really deep discounted tickets - very limited in supply and should do not - then with the ABS or All Belgian Stations fare after getting off in Brussels on the Thalys train you can take any train within 48 hours i believe to Bruges - and ditto back to Paris for your return Thalys train to Paris - there is i believe one daily direct Paris to Bruges TGV but at inconvenient hours for most. If wanting fully flexible travel to book as you go then the Benelux-France Pass may come into play - especially if going first class, which i always recommend for novice train travelers - makes it much easier to get needed reservations and more room for luggage, etc.

I, too, suggest you cut down on the traveling you have planned. Settle in three locations and enjoy day-trips from there, is my advice. We stayed 5 nights in Amsterdam and loved it. Even more than we expected, Amsterdam is friendly, clean and terribly charming! It's an easy train trip to/from Paris, too.

We traveled round trip Paris-Brussels-Bruges using the All Belgian Stations ticket (Thalys 2nd class was just great) and our fare, round trip, for two adults was $118 in 2007.I did buy the tickets a few weeks in advance and had them mailed to our apartment owner in Paris, and I used the French sncf site.When I compared the price with the Rail Europe site in the US, Rail Europe came to almost $400 for 2 adults, round trip. Big savings using sncf and All Belgian Stations ticket.
Trip was easy and times were good...no layovers.

hi sorry to hijack this thread, but im dying to know which do you all think is better for christmas time, Bruges or Strasbourg?

Re: Christmas. One thing i have learned is to make (or have your hotel make) definite plans for holiday dining--Christmas Eve, Christmas and New Year's. Many places are closed, fully booked or have special considerations. It is a special time and not comfortable to be left out.
Paul

Hi, we finally decide that was going to be Paris, Bruges, Amsterdam and back to Paris for the flight back home. We booked all the hotels.

I was wondering if I should buy in advanced the train ticket Amsterdam - Paris as it would be on december 22, because of the Holiday getting near or just show up on the train station?

Is there much price difference in the other legs of the trip (Paris-Brussels-Brugges-Amsterdam) if buying in advance vs. buying in train station?

Finally there is any advice in how to spend the nigth of december 24 in Paris, any restaurant???

Thanks

Regarding how many days to spend in Paris, I would suggest you to spend at least one week. Of all the cities in Europe you want to visit, Paris is definitely the richest one.
The city is not very big but it has a high density of museums and attractions that you could easily spend one month there and still have a lot to see.
It is also very well organized for tourists and even on 24 and 25 December you could do a lot.
What I really suggest you is to walk the city through. This is the best way to see this city. Don't make a list of things to do in Paris and then run from one place to the other trying to check each item of the list. You would miss the best of it which is the atmospheres. Each district of the city has something to offer that will leave you amazed. Start from Notre Dame, the most important Gothic Church in Europe. Visit the Church and then walk around the island on the Seine where it is located. You will find a universe of little shops and traditional cafès each with a history of their own. Then move toward the City Hall, an incredible building in itself. In front of it at Chrstmas time you can also ice skate if you wish. Then walk through Rue de Rivoli, one of the most important shopping streets in Paris (and the most accessible too). From there walk to Le Marais in the 4th district and visit the Jewish district inside Le Marais with all the little Jewish restaurants and shops. End your walk in Place des Vosges where you can have a very good meal at the brasserie Victor Hugo where you can have very good French food in a very artistic atmosphere for a good price. Before goind home after this long walk have a look at the square where once was Bastille, the famous prison symbol of the French Revolution.
The day after walk through Quartier Latin, visit La Sorbonne University and walk through Saint Germain. Stop to eat in one of the little restaurants in Quartier Latin and possibly in a place where you can have good French crepes.
At the end of Boulevard St Germain you find the National Assembly, the French Parliament, a beautiful bridge over the Seine river and on the other side Place Concorde. End the day with a tour on the panoramic wheele from where you can see the entire city.
Use one day to visit Louvre Museum. Don't try to see all the sectors, one week wouldn't be enough. Choose one sector and stick to it. Inside the museum you can have lunch.
Use half a day to visit Musée d'Orsay, where the most important works of impressionists are exposed. Then walk along the Sein river till the Eiffel Tower.
Spend one day to visit Montmartre and go through all the little streets, see Sacré Coeur and shop around.
If you want to have a good Chrstmas lunch go at Le Procope in Saint Germain. It is the oldest cafè in Paris and you can have very good French traditional food in a beautiful atmosphere.
Rent an apartment instead of getting an hotel, better if it is on Montmartre and with a view on the city so you can contemplate the city at night and walk it through during the day.
I use always the same company to rent apartments in Paris and they always gave me great service. Here is the link to their site http://www.paris-apartment-rent.com/index.html

A mistake that we have made is moving around too much and, consequently,eating up too much valuable time, so I would limit the hotel changes to one or two at most.

Also, the commenter is right who says you could spend the whole time in Paris and not run out of things to see and do (with short trips out of the city if you want). Consider limiting your cities too. Luxembourg and Strasbourg are going to involve a lot of travel time and are going to take you away from major cities.

In 2001 we visited Bruges and it was beautiful, but I can't imagine spending three days of a two week trip there. In 2006 we spent a week in Amsterdam with a couple of trips by train outside the city. We had a ball because for once there was time to have a cup of coffee or a beer and people watch and talk.

If it were my choice, I'd probably do about 3 days in Amsterdam and 9 days in Paris with day trips to Versailles and Chartes. I wish it were my choice this time Have fun!