julies

So, how come after we went out to lunch yesterday here at home in a major metropolitan area in the US, my husband commented, "So why were those crummy pasta dishes so expensive in Italy"?

We had just had lunch at a great Indian buffet with extremely good food (at least half the restaurant's patrons were from India) and a wide variety of it. Price for 2 people including taxes--$20. No beverages, just water. This is the equivalent of E13.50. Throw in a small tip and you'd still only be at E16.00. Granted at lunch there were paper tablecloths and napkins rather than linen, but I've seen this in Europe too some places, even in the evening. And, I know lunch is cheaper than dinner at the same place, so don't tell me this is why it was so reasonable.

On our recent trip, we could find nothing at any time of day in any way comparable to this as far as really good food at reasonable prices. We know to avoid the tourist-oriented places when looking for good reasonably-priced food. We don't need English menus or places that cater to English speeakers. And, we are willing to eat at places that many here would probably die of starvation and drop dead before patronizing. (In fact we were just laughing and reminiscing about the food stall we stopped at last spring in Istanbul. It was about a block or two behind the Grand Bazaar, and there was one small table about 18" in diameter and height, and 4 very small stools that were perhaps 10" high. We ordered by pointing and ate with the local workers, including several attired like Osama bin Laden. Our lunch included a yogourt drink that we didn't even realize was part of the deal. But, enough of this aside.)

I was crucified by some people here several weeks ago when I returned from Rome and Venice and commented that we found eating out expensive. We had done our homework before our trip too, and I had an extensive list of recommended plces to eat that were clasified as "inexpensive". So, we weren't looking at expensive restaurants. Perhaps the issue is that I don't consider a meal at E25 to E35 a person reasonably priced as so many here tend to, and we don't typically spend $100 every time we go out to eat.

We prefer ethnic food when we eat out at home and are lucky that we live in a city with a wide variety of ethnic restaurants--Thai, Vietnamese, Ethiopian, Indian, Mexican, Afghani etc. These are the types of places we usually patronize with the exception of smaller locally owned bistro type places. We never go to chain places like Applebees, Embers, Olive Garden or to fancy steak houses. Nor do we patronize upscale, trendy restaurants unless it is a special occasion.

All in all, I stand by my comment that in light of the weak dollar Europe is more expensive for eathing out. I wanted to piggyback this comment on the thread about is Europe really that much more expensive, but that has gone so far off track that I decided to post separately.

logos999

You show me your fav. indian place in ... and I show you my fav. chinese mongolian buffet in Munich. 6.99€ on weekdays. . So what..

travelme

Julies, I do believe you about your experience in Italy. It is a very expensive country.
I am going to Spain in 2 weeks and have done quite a bit of research on food costs. Spain seems reasonable and we will be able to get a menu of the day that will include 3 courses + beverage for usually under 15 dollars. I think that is pretty good. At night, it will be pricier but not too bad. We might split entrees as we will of had a huge lunch.
It is unfortunate the way some posters replied to your trip report.
I do find Tripadvisor to be much more courteous. There is none of this negativity and no one raises their voices.

SemiMike

It's taken a bit of digging over time, but we have a number of places we like in Paris with dinners for 20 euros or less. Not real cheap by some standards, but we eat French in France (why go all that way for Thai?), and we are likely to be the only non-locals in the places we go - my passable French is very helpful, but not essential. It's more useful in smaller towns, where good meals can be had for even less, but where the English is very sparse.

cherrybomb

Comparing ethnic restaurant prices in Minneapolis, where there is a glut of ethnic restaurants is ridiculous.

How much would your lunch for two cost at, say, Broder's, which is a neighborhood Italian restaurant? Or Cafe Pierre? That would be a better comparison.

Not trying to slam you, but come one--compare apples to apples.

To compare, I can have lunch in my neighborhood at Schiller's, it always costs $62. That is for 2 "entrees," 50cl (a carafe) of "decent" (their term) wine, and 1 espresso. The same lunch, at the same caliber place, in Paris, Barcelona, or Rome for 2 could be had for b/t $25-$35. And I don't have to tip 20% on top of the raw bill. This is comparing a major city to a major city. I am NYC.

Nonconformist

So are the cheap restaurants you patronise in the US also patronised by foreign tourists, and in one of the three most popular cities with foreign tourists/the captital city? If not, they're really not fair comparisons with your problems in Rome, Venice and Florence, IMHO.

aimeekm

I agree that you can't compare the prices of dining in one's hometown to those when traveling.

Of course locally I know the taqueria that has the best $3.99 taco plate, and the Thai restaurant that has the best $6.95 curry. But I don't have the ability to get to know a location as intmately when traveling.

The comparison in the other thread is to traveling in N America vs. Europe. When I travel even locally, San Francisco or Vegas (I'm in SoCal), I will always spend more than when eating near home. But in my (admittedly limited) experience I don't spend more dining in Europe, than in tourist destinations w/in the US.

julies, I will be in Rome in a few weeks, so until then I won't be able to comment directly on your experiences. But last year when I was preparing to go to Paris I read post after post about how expensive dining was there. I was pleasently surprised how many affordable places we found to eat. I'm hoping the same will apply to Rome.

kenderina

There are a few things that cannot match here...not only the weak dollar or even the more expensive Italy...
I mean, there are few ethnic places in Italy as there are few in Spain. And because they are kind of exotic..they are not as cheap as in the States. But anyway, it's not fair to compare big tourism cities like Venice or Rome with somewhere in the US. Probably NYC or LA are also more expensive than your ethnic restaurant and that most places in Europe outside the big tourist attractions. Not many people lives now in Venice...ask yourself why , I think you found the answer
I'm sorry you were disappointed but that's the way it is.

cherrybomb

sorry my bad, I realized when eating dinner I was off on my comparison, it is $48 for the Schiller's lunch--$62 was what we were paying when ordering vodka sodas, the husband and I have switched to wine to lower the bill. It is still $62 + 20% tip when dining there for business as I don't tend to order a carafe and stick to cocktails.

julies

A few points.

I am saying that the primary issue is the state of the dollar. A very weak dollar makes everything in Europe more expensive.

Also, the issue is not just a world capital city being expensive. We spent a week and a half in Paris 2 years ago, and I did not feel this way then about eating out. At that time, I believe, the dollar was trading at about $1.20 to $1.25 for one euro, so I could get about 80% of a euro for one dollar. Now that same dollar gets me 2/3 of a euro. Then a E40 meal would cost me just under $50. Now that same E40 meal will cost me $60. (And, I am guessing that most who post here would be looking at meals for 2 that are double what I just cited as an example.) And, I know that some will say so what, big deal! What's a $10 or $12 difference for one meal? My point is that on a two week trip and eating out all the time, the food costs do start to add up over what they were just a few years ago.

No, I do not want to eat in a Thai restaurant every day in Rome. But, I would like to have some options other than a slice of pizza for good inexpensive meals to balance out the higher prices of restaurants. If I had been able to find those other types of choices, I wouldn't be commenting. I also assume most Americans who are first time travelers to Europe assume that they can find places comparable in price, not food, to their local hamburger joint at home and periodically eat some of their meals at such places to balance out other days/meals when they will be eating more expensive food.

No. I never said I didn't have a good trip. I just said eating out costs a lot. And, I think that those who pose the question (as in a recent thread) about costs should get a realistic picture so they can anticipate costs.

Cherrybomb--Did you used to live in SW Mpls? I live not further than 8 blocks from the restaurants you refer to. To answer your question about lunch at the places you mentioned so we'd be comparing apples to apples. I'd say $13-$14 per person including tax and tip but no wine or other beverages. This is the same as E9 per person for food only. I'd have been thrilled to find anything, other than pizza, in that price range on our recent trip.

logos999

Or you could have a schnitzel, fries and a salad plate for 7€. Or the 5€ pizza, salad and soft drink. Or the 5.50€ chinese meal. The 2.10€ weissbeer.
It's rather unlikly tourits find those places in Munich. At least I've never seen a single tourist there. Yet, the food isn't bad.

RandyK

While the tone is getting a bit nasty here, the tune is still correct. Parts of Italy are VERY expensive-----I enjoyed a 350 ml Coke Light on Via Venetto in October and paid 6 Euros for the pleasure. Water and soft drinks are expensive nearly everywhere I've ever been in Rome but I wouldn't trade the experience of my visits to Italy for any amount of money.

When I'm in Italy or elsewhere in Europe I'm not going to let prices keep me from enjoying the trip. (If price is an issue, go somewhere that doesn't use the Euro.) Still, when I find a less expensive cafe or pub I consider it a small blessing. For example, I found a place off the beaten path in Sorrento that only charged 3 Euros for a huge carafe of local red---some of the best wine I'd had the entire trip.

My first Euros cost about 89 cents U.S. Those were the days!

Zeus

Kigos - Please show ME the Mongolian restaurant in Munich! They are few and far between where I live.

LoveItaly

Julies, I won't get into a discussion on the costs of meals in Italy compared to the US but seriously..you and your husband thought the pasta dishes in Italy were "crummy"?

nytraveler

In the US there are many ethnic (Indian,Chinese, Thai etc) places that have super budget lunch places (dishes are usually very heavy on veggies and low on meat). I have never seen these in Italy - although I have in a couple of other countries (UK, Spain, France). IMHO sometimes they are fine and sometimes they are not.

As for a regular basic restaurant with pasta and salad etc - I don;t find Italy any more expensive - but that's in comparison to NYC. I know other parts of the country can be much less.

Songdoc

Try eating in a restaurant in Oslo or Bergen (Norway) and see if it's not considerably more expensive than a comparable meal in NY or LA.

On a recent visit, friends from Oslo laughed at how ridiculously low the prices seemed to them -- not only in restaurants (where they wanted steaks every day because they were so cheap) but for everything.

They had to buy two extra suitcaes to bring home all they'd purchased because they said that an iPod in Wal-Mart cost the same as their going out to lunch.

I agree that it's worth every penny -- but in my experience, it IS more expensive to eat in the major European cities.

tedgale

Julies, I rallied to your defense the other week RE Borghese because I thought you were reasonable and your detractors were not.

Now I'm kinda inclined to re-think my dismissal of those who dissed you for 1. extreme focus on cost and 2. a propensity harsh criticism.

Why would you even post such a message? And how do you expect to avoid criticism when you use such a narrow sample and such apples-and-oranges reasoning?

FWIW:
Nowhere in the United States or Canada have I EVER found meals that compared in terms of "rapport qualite-prix" (quality-price ratio) to the meals that I have found in the villages and small towns of "la France profonde". Or rural Tuscany, for that matter.

There are cheaper meals to be had in NA, no doubt.

But there is nothing outside large NA cities and/or "fancy", costly NA restaurants to equal my long list of 12 Euro, 3-course lunches or 24 Euro, 4-course dinners.

Hence, I have concluded, based on 38 years of European (and NA) travel, that "Eating out WELL in Europe is way cheaper than eating out as well in the US", when you get out of the big cities.

Clifton

I like small ethnic places too (as in, not what is traditionally local). Always always the best value when available. NYC is great for that, as is London. I don't know about Italy. If we can Vietnamese, it's our fav.

We just had Chinese Mongolian buffet too. On a Sunday, was $5.99 US (4.04 Euro including unlimited refills on tea, coffee or soft drinks). Can't beat that.

But still - I do like to try what was more traditional if we can from time to time. That's important to us. Sometimes you can find this affordably in Europe, sometimes it's not as easy.

logos999

The Mongolean restaurants are owned by chinese people. It's the type of food where you choose raw meat and vegetables, put them on your plate and bring it to the cook. I don't know how genuinely mogolean they are? They've spread all over town in the recent years. Still offering very cheap meals and frequented mainly by families! It's 6.99€ for the buffet but can add up if you have a lot of drinks. (There's no obligation to order something to drink of course.)

cherrybomb

Julies:

Yes, I grew up in that neighborhood, my parents still live there and I was referring to the Broder's restaurant not the take-out, which is cheaper. You are looking at $20 at least for an entree at the pasta bar and a huge wait.

Also, prices have jumped a ton in the last few years and there are far more dining options in that area, and in NE Mpls.

I was there for a weekend in October, haven't visited home in 3 years or so, and was shocked at the prices. Another comparable lunch place would have been the place that replaced Connor's on 55th and Penn--that was what I wanted to use as an example instead of Broder's, which could mean the Pasta Bar or the take-out. I couldn't remember the name and wasn't sure what area you lived in so it would seem to be a dumb comparison to make, but since you are there, I assume you know where I am referring to. I cannot imagine lunch there being less than $20/pp + tip--dinner for 4 was @ $175, that was for 4 cocktails while we waited, 2, maybe 3 bottles of wine (if not 3 bottles, at least my dad and I had another glass on top of the 2 bottles)--the wine was in the $30 range, (I only know because my dad lets me pick the wine cause it is his way of being sweet and they collect wine, but he is californa-australian-centric and I am french-south african centric so he likes to see what I choose) and sharing 6 or 7 small plates + 2 orders of fries, I heart fries.

Anyway, there are bargains to be had there still--he had us at all the free wine tastings at france 44 and surdyks and even the coop while the husband and I stayed--I inherited the free gene from him.

Sorry, I just hijacked the thread, but think that I had a pertinent point in there.