To morocco or extend stay in Andalusia?
Sep 2nd, 2011, 08:21 PM
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To morocco or extend stay in Andalusia?
Hi all,
I'm in a difficult predicament. I'm leaving for spain in 5 days for a 3 week trip and I have not hammered out the details. I'm visiting Madrid and Barcelona with a friend for 10 days and for the remaining 11 is completely open. I just need to fly out of Madrid on the 12th day.
My original plan was:
2 days granada
3 days seville
4 days marrakech/essaouira
However, after visiting several sites, this may seem a little ambitious, especially if I have not traveled much before.
I'm the most indecisive person so I have been flipflopping between cutting out morocco or not. If I'm a single traveler, don't speak either spanish or arabic, will not have rental car, on a roughly $80-$100 budget/day. Would you recommend staying andalusia and adding Ronda or stick with the original plan?
Since I will have been in Madrid and Barcelona, I would definitely want a more countryside feel, which is why I'm drawn to Ronda. At the same time, I think Marrakech would be more very different and would be interesting to get a juxtaposition between Spanish and Moroccan culture. I don't want to overgeneralizem but it seems but granada and seville are fairly similar? Also, at which location would it be easier to meet other travelers?
Many thanks and appreciate any advice or possibly other alternatives.
I'm in a difficult predicament. I'm leaving for spain in 5 days for a 3 week trip and I have not hammered out the details. I'm visiting Madrid and Barcelona with a friend for 10 days and for the remaining 11 is completely open. I just need to fly out of Madrid on the 12th day.
My original plan was:
2 days granada
3 days seville
4 days marrakech/essaouira
However, after visiting several sites, this may seem a little ambitious, especially if I have not traveled much before.
I'm the most indecisive person so I have been flipflopping between cutting out morocco or not. If I'm a single traveler, don't speak either spanish or arabic, will not have rental car, on a roughly $80-$100 budget/day. Would you recommend staying andalusia and adding Ronda or stick with the original plan?
Since I will have been in Madrid and Barcelona, I would definitely want a more countryside feel, which is why I'm drawn to Ronda. At the same time, I think Marrakech would be more very different and would be interesting to get a juxtaposition between Spanish and Moroccan culture. I don't want to overgeneralizem but it seems but granada and seville are fairly similar? Also, at which location would it be easier to meet other travelers?
Many thanks and appreciate any advice or possibly other alternatives.
Sep 2nd, 2011, 08:31 PM
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I also travel on my own frequently and have spent quite a lot of time in Morocco. It's one of my favorite places. But I don't think on this trip you have the time to make a detour there worthwhile. I suggest you stay in Spain and since you haven't firmed up your plans I'd just leave it that way. Someone is going to tell you about a great small town to visit and if no one does then keep Ronda as your fall-back position. It's a very sweet place. Save Morocco for when you can do it justice.
Sep 3rd, 2011, 02:26 AM
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Both Sevilla, Córdoba, Granada, Málaga and Cádiz are fabulous "big" cities in Andalucía. All are very different. Sevilla and Málaga are my favourites, but just came home from some fabulous days in Córdoba. And, of course, Granada for Alhambra and the Cathedral with the tombs of the so called Catholic kings, Isabella and Ferdinand.
Many beautiful, small villages in the area. Ronda (pop 35 000) is not so small, but a sure bet. http://www.andalucia.com/ronda/
I'm also very fond of Antequera (pop 40 000). Known as the "heart of Andalucía" with its dolmens, Roman baths, a Moorish Castle, Gothic churches, Renaissance fountains and baroque bell towers. Antequera was the first of the Granada emirate towns to fall to the Christians in 1410.
http://www.andaluciacoastandcountry.com/antequera.html
The article "A Tapas Tour of Antequera" should give you some ideas of great places to eat. I've lived in Hotel Castilla and can recommend the adjoining bar/restaurant mentioned in the article.
http://www.andaluciacoastandcountry.com/tapaspain.html
This site gives all the info you need on Sevilla: http://www.exploreseville.com/
About fabulous Málaga city:
http://www.andalucia.com/cities/malaga/home.htm
And here are some flamenco recommendations for your days in Madrid (Sept 10-12):
All these days Belén López, one of the most promising up and coming female flamenco dancers in the world, perform at Corral De la Morería close to the Almudena Cathedral and the Royal Palace. Last year she had great success in theaters such as New York City Center and Sadler's Wells in London. http://www.corraldelamoreria.com/lan...t-tourism.html
Belén López in one of the other top Madrid tablaos (Casa Patas): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hbhk...eature=related
Restaurant/terrace El Ventorrillo in the Vistillas park, with some of the best views in the city, is just outside Corral de la Morería.
On the tenth, fabulous singer Gema Caballero performs in Casa Patas together with other great artists (dancers, guitarist etc). I've seen her several times, her voice cuts through bones. The past year she has worked together with plain fantastic dancer Rocío Molina, last years National Dance Prize winner. I would have gone for the midnight session. Casa Patas is just off vibrant Plaza Santa Ana. http://www.casapatas.com/
Gema Caballero: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZpwf...eature=related
Many beautiful, small villages in the area. Ronda (pop 35 000) is not so small, but a sure bet. http://www.andalucia.com/ronda/
I'm also very fond of Antequera (pop 40 000). Known as the "heart of Andalucía" with its dolmens, Roman baths, a Moorish Castle, Gothic churches, Renaissance fountains and baroque bell towers. Antequera was the first of the Granada emirate towns to fall to the Christians in 1410.
http://www.andaluciacoastandcountry.com/antequera.html
The article "A Tapas Tour of Antequera" should give you some ideas of great places to eat. I've lived in Hotel Castilla and can recommend the adjoining bar/restaurant mentioned in the article.
http://www.andaluciacoastandcountry.com/tapaspain.html
This site gives all the info you need on Sevilla: http://www.exploreseville.com/
About fabulous Málaga city:
http://www.andalucia.com/cities/malaga/home.htm
And here are some flamenco recommendations for your days in Madrid (Sept 10-12):
All these days Belén López, one of the most promising up and coming female flamenco dancers in the world, perform at Corral De la Morería close to the Almudena Cathedral and the Royal Palace. Last year she had great success in theaters such as New York City Center and Sadler's Wells in London. http://www.corraldelamoreria.com/lan...t-tourism.html
Belén López in one of the other top Madrid tablaos (Casa Patas): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hbhk...eature=related
Restaurant/terrace El Ventorrillo in the Vistillas park, with some of the best views in the city, is just outside Corral de la Morería.
On the tenth, fabulous singer Gema Caballero performs in Casa Patas together with other great artists (dancers, guitarist etc). I've seen her several times, her voice cuts through bones. The past year she has worked together with plain fantastic dancer Rocío Molina, last years National Dance Prize winner. I would have gone for the midnight session. Casa Patas is just off vibrant Plaza Santa Ana. http://www.casapatas.com/
Gema Caballero: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZpwf...eature=related
Sep 3rd, 2011, 02:40 AM
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Andalucia is special Ronda(the Parador there) Nerja othere
are very special but pretty easy to fold that into your
Spain time... I truly like the exotic vibe of visitmorocco.com
www.seat61.com/Morocco details ferry/train options down
Riads lie the D'Or in Meknes are awesome cheap...
travel.state.gov insuremytrip.com always wise down there.
Have been enjoying the Marrakech Express since the sixties
song by Crosby Stills Nash and Young...
Did the High Atlas ultra a couple of yeas ago there
simply awesome... So Maroc for me but make more time...
Happy Travels,
are very special but pretty easy to fold that into your
Spain time... I truly like the exotic vibe of visitmorocco.com
www.seat61.com/Morocco details ferry/train options down
Riads lie the D'Or in Meknes are awesome cheap...
travel.state.gov insuremytrip.com always wise down there.
Have been enjoying the Marrakech Express since the sixties
song by Crosby Stills Nash and Young...
Did the High Atlas ultra a couple of yeas ago there
simply awesome... So Maroc for me but make more time...
Happy Travels,
Sep 3rd, 2011, 02:44 AM
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Sep 3rd, 2011, 07:37 AM
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I've been to Morroco a few times and faced with spending more time in Andalucia or going to Morroco I would pick Andalucia 10 times out of 10. If you must go to Morroco you will need to fly directly into Marrakesh. Yes the only places I would want to go to are Marrakesh, Atlas mtns. and Essouira. If there is any way you could fly to Bilbao cheaply I would spend those last 4 days in San Sebastian. But then again why not just stay in Andalucia and visit Cadiz, Jerz, ronda, Cordoba, Malaga...
Sep 3rd, 2011, 08:01 AM
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I would stay in Spain. Four days is not enough to get to, get back from, and appreciate Morocco. Save it until you have more time. And btw, there is a LOT more to Morocco than Marrakesh, the Atlas Mountains, and Essouira. It's a big country. And also btw, you don't really need Arabic, or much of it, there; French will get you by most everywhere except really out in the boonies.
Anyway, stay in Spain and explore Andalucia.
Anyway, stay in Spain and explore Andalucia.
Sep 3rd, 2011, 08:51 AM
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Regarding language, I find that whether English or French is spoken it tends to be a generational thing. French is spoken, because of the colonial history, by the older generation while English is the language favored by the young people. And, of course, Spanish is more the second language in the north, Chefchaouen and environs. But, in any case, tourism is the biggest industry in the country and you will always be understood, one way or another.
Sep 3rd, 2011, 12:01 PM
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Kaleidoscope:
If you want a "kaleidoscope experience for Maroc, then do the four days..but that's all you will get. Unfortunately, too many travlers think of Maroc as a quick add-on to Spain. Not so, IMHO (My wife says I have never had a humble opinion)
we've loved our travels into Spain and Portugal, but Maroc stands alone in any case. Save it to savor it, please, for some future travel when you can give it the time that fascinating country deserves. No mention of Medieval Fes? That in iself is worth the four days...Marrakech another, Atlas trekking another four,etc.
Kal: Strongly consider sticking with Spain for this trip. If anything, you can add some time in Portugal. But Spain is quite enormous and intriguing, and traveling without a car will necessitate other modes of transportation....all time consuming.
Enjoy Spain!
stu
If you want a "kaleidoscope experience for Maroc, then do the four days..but that's all you will get. Unfortunately, too many travlers think of Maroc as a quick add-on to Spain. Not so, IMHO (My wife says I have never had a humble opinion)
we've loved our travels into Spain and Portugal, but Maroc stands alone in any case. Save it to savor it, please, for some future travel when you can give it the time that fascinating country deserves. No mention of Medieval Fes? That in iself is worth the four days...Marrakech another, Atlas trekking another four,etc.
Kal: Strongly consider sticking with Spain for this trip. If anything, you can add some time in Portugal. But Spain is quite enormous and intriguing, and traveling without a car will necessitate other modes of transportation....all time consuming.
Enjoy Spain!
stu
Sep 3rd, 2011, 12:47 PM
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Many thanks all! Really appreciate the feedback. I was hoping... maybe, just maybe, someone will validate that this morocco side trip is worthwhile, but this is definitely the confirmation I needed. I guess there is no point to going and being able to enjoy it, especially since there is much more to see in spain.
@ joannyc-- do you have more details about these horseback rides in ronda?
@ kimhe-- thanks so much for all the links and details! Especially about flamenco, thanks for letting me know and finding me here. when is the latest we can book for belen lopez's performance? i still need to discuss our madrid plans with my friend so I don't want to book without discussing with her. About Malaga--- I thought it was a beach town that some people said wasn't quite worth the hassle? Will look into the links you sent.
@ Lincasanova, qwovadis, valtor: thanks for the tip about nerja. Wasn't considering but will definitely take a look. Is it accessible from granada/seville by public transport? how long would you suggest?
@ egbert-- I should have thought about stopping by san sebastian after barcelona! But yes, I think it may be a bit much to travel back and forth. Next time!
@ joannay, stCirq, pegontheroad, tower: thanks for the input. Yes... i was too idealistic and i wasn't doing the country justice. But just a taste?? oy. I feel like a kid at the candy store.
@bilboburgler-- very rudimentary french... fail. >.<
Thanks again everyone for your input. You just saved me a from a botched trip to morocco that could have been better spent in southern spain. Any more advice, would love to hear.
@ joannyc-- do you have more details about these horseback rides in ronda?
@ kimhe-- thanks so much for all the links and details! Especially about flamenco, thanks for letting me know and finding me here. when is the latest we can book for belen lopez's performance? i still need to discuss our madrid plans with my friend so I don't want to book without discussing with her. About Malaga--- I thought it was a beach town that some people said wasn't quite worth the hassle? Will look into the links you sent.
@ Lincasanova, qwovadis, valtor: thanks for the tip about nerja. Wasn't considering but will definitely take a look. Is it accessible from granada/seville by public transport? how long would you suggest?
@ egbert-- I should have thought about stopping by san sebastian after barcelona! But yes, I think it may be a bit much to travel back and forth. Next time!
@ joannay, stCirq, pegontheroad, tower: thanks for the input. Yes... i was too idealistic and i wasn't doing the country justice. But just a taste?? oy. I feel like a kid at the candy store.
@bilboburgler-- very rudimentary french... fail. >.<
Thanks again everyone for your input. You just saved me a from a botched trip to morocco that could have been better spent in southern spain. Any more advice, would love to hear.
Sep 3rd, 2011, 01:39 PM
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When you decide to really "do" Morocco you'll be so glad you can give it your full attention. I've been there 5 or 6 times now, 3-4 weeks each time and still always wish I had more. A quick side trip can be a distraction from the main focus of one's travel and I think you'll be glad you decided to give Spain your attention for the 3 weeks you have, not a lot of time.
I also hope you leave some days unplanned to give spontaneity a place in your travels. Some of the best things can happen when you have the time.
I also hope you leave some days unplanned to give spontaneity a place in your travels. Some of the best things can happen when you have the time.
Sep 3rd, 2011, 02:26 PM
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Sep 3rd, 2011, 10:45 PM
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I would book the Belén López performance some two-three days in advance at least. Corral de la Morería is also very popular with tourists, and sometimes it can fill up early.
Málaga city is a totally different world than much of the many touristy beach towns and resorts of the Málaga region. A chance to experience genuine Andalusian atmosphere, excellent tapas bars, cafés, and perhaps the most easy-going people in all of Andalucía.
Within three hundred meters in the center, you'll find the recently excavated Roman theater, the 8-11th century Moorish Alcazaba (much older than Alhambra in Granada), the great 16th century Cathedral and both Picasso's birth-place and the new Picasso museum (2003).
"Málaga: Authentic charm of an overlooked treasure":
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ci...-treasure.html
About Málaga in Andalucía Magazine:
http://www.andalucia.com/magazine/en...ed2/malaga.htm
If you stay in Málaga, I can recommend Don Curro as a good value hotel in the middle of everything.
http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/mala...ncurro.en.html
I use to stay in next door and even more affordable Hostal Victoria. Excellent value, some 52€ for a double with private bathroom etc., as central location as you can get.
Have some typical Málaga wine at old and traditional Antigua Casa de Guardia some 100 meters from both hotels: http://www.antiguacasadeguardia.net/
Lots of excellent tapas bars/restaurants in the center of town such as popular La Campana in Calle Granada, traditional El Cortijo de Pepe at Plaza la Merced 2 and innovative El Tapeo de Cervantes next door to the majestic Teatro Cervantes.
La Campana: http://11870.com/pro/la-campana-malaga
El Tapeo de Cervantes: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restauran...Andalusia.html
In Málaga, I can also recommend the many waterfront seafood restaurants in Pedregalejo just east of the city center. Delicious food, affordable and popular with locals. The beaches here are also popular with the malagueños.
You should also have a coffee or chocolate con churros at legendary Casa Aranda, one of the best cafés I've ever been to. http://www.casa-aranda.net/
Small and charming Nerja (pop 20 000) is also a good option, some 35 miles east of Málaga city. Has got everything that makes it popular with tourists, but has also retained much of its local character. I've been in Nerja at least once a year the past ten years and could give you tons of tips based on your likes and interest. Free tapas too choose with every drink (about 1,50€) in almost all tapas bars/restaurants in town. You could visit some three, four places, have some glasses of beer, wine, mineral water, whatever and some five different delicious small dishes for some 7€... Nine excellent beaches in town, among the cliffs. Some large, and some very small.
About Nerja: http://www.nerjatoday.com/
When it comes to Sevilla, Azahar has got excellent suggestions for tapas bars/restaurants. I would especially point to her recommedations of Eslava and Enrique Becerra. Bodega Diaz Salazar in C/García de Vinuesa, 20 (in the atmosperic Arenal area) is one of my favourites in town.
http://www.minube.com/fotos/rincon/1...slideshow-mode
Málaga city is a totally different world than much of the many touristy beach towns and resorts of the Málaga region. A chance to experience genuine Andalusian atmosphere, excellent tapas bars, cafés, and perhaps the most easy-going people in all of Andalucía.
Within three hundred meters in the center, you'll find the recently excavated Roman theater, the 8-11th century Moorish Alcazaba (much older than Alhambra in Granada), the great 16th century Cathedral and both Picasso's birth-place and the new Picasso museum (2003).
"Málaga: Authentic charm of an overlooked treasure":
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ci...-treasure.html
About Málaga in Andalucía Magazine:
http://www.andalucia.com/magazine/en...ed2/malaga.htm
If you stay in Málaga, I can recommend Don Curro as a good value hotel in the middle of everything.
http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/mala...ncurro.en.html
I use to stay in next door and even more affordable Hostal Victoria. Excellent value, some 52€ for a double with private bathroom etc., as central location as you can get.
Have some typical Málaga wine at old and traditional Antigua Casa de Guardia some 100 meters from both hotels: http://www.antiguacasadeguardia.net/
Lots of excellent tapas bars/restaurants in the center of town such as popular La Campana in Calle Granada, traditional El Cortijo de Pepe at Plaza la Merced 2 and innovative El Tapeo de Cervantes next door to the majestic Teatro Cervantes.
La Campana: http://11870.com/pro/la-campana-malaga
El Tapeo de Cervantes: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restauran...Andalusia.html
In Málaga, I can also recommend the many waterfront seafood restaurants in Pedregalejo just east of the city center. Delicious food, affordable and popular with locals. The beaches here are also popular with the malagueños.
You should also have a coffee or chocolate con churros at legendary Casa Aranda, one of the best cafés I've ever been to. http://www.casa-aranda.net/
Small and charming Nerja (pop 20 000) is also a good option, some 35 miles east of Málaga city. Has got everything that makes it popular with tourists, but has also retained much of its local character. I've been in Nerja at least once a year the past ten years and could give you tons of tips based on your likes and interest. Free tapas too choose with every drink (about 1,50€) in almost all tapas bars/restaurants in town. You could visit some three, four places, have some glasses of beer, wine, mineral water, whatever and some five different delicious small dishes for some 7€... Nine excellent beaches in town, among the cliffs. Some large, and some very small.
About Nerja: http://www.nerjatoday.com/
When it comes to Sevilla, Azahar has got excellent suggestions for tapas bars/restaurants. I would especially point to her recommedations of Eslava and Enrique Becerra. Bodega Diaz Salazar in C/García de Vinuesa, 20 (in the atmosperic Arenal area) is one of my favourites in town.
http://www.minube.com/fotos/rincon/1...slideshow-mode
Sep 3rd, 2011, 10:51 PM
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... about Hostal Victoria in the heart of Málaga, the best location you could find: http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/vict...-gb.html?dva=0
Sep 4th, 2011, 12:30 PM
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Hi Kimhe,
So many thanks for your helpful links and insightful recommendations! Just wanted to follow up on your tip about Corral de la Morería and Belen Lopez's performance. Do you recommend the 10 PM or 12AM performance? Will she be performing in both (sorry, the site doesn't specify who the performers are during reservation)?
So the 40 euro option is only for the show, and the dinner is additional, whereas for the 43 euro option, a drink is included and no requirement to purchase anything else? This show is just a little bit steep for my budget, so I just wanted to make sure I interpreted the pricing correctly.
Thanks again.
So many thanks for your helpful links and insightful recommendations! Just wanted to follow up on your tip about Corral de la Morería and Belen Lopez's performance. Do you recommend the 10 PM or 12AM performance? Will she be performing in both (sorry, the site doesn't specify who the performers are during reservation)?
So the 40 euro option is only for the show, and the dinner is additional, whereas for the 43 euro option, a drink is included and no requirement to purchase anything else? This show is just a little bit steep for my budget, so I just wanted to make sure I interpreted the pricing correctly.
Thanks again.
