Three Months in Europe

before you purchase any rail pass read through the follow website dictated to rial travel.
http://www.seat61.com/
You may well find it is not worth the money.
Day trip between BCN and Madrid? you will not see much of BCN. High speed train (AVE) takes just under 3 hours each way. So six hours gone, then add time to get to and from city centres and there will not be much left of the day.
Check if you can use passes on the AVE

OMG - I just counted your days and came up with 89. You did not build in any travel time.

For instance, when you travel from Athens to Sorrento you have 1 day in Sorrento but it could take you most of a day to get from Athens to Sorrento.

You also haven't planned any down time just to relax and do laundry or recover from a hang over.

If you're a traditional aged student (18-22) how do you know already that this is a once in a lifetime trip? I would not try to visit everyplace in Europe because you think you only have one shot at it.

This itinerary will show you a blur of scenery (for the most part) and very little sights. Very little getting to know the country or culture. And when are you going to have time to take photos except for the few places where you're staying for more than a day.

Please take another look at your itinerary where you have 1 or 2 days marked and try to eliminate a few places so you don't spend all your time traveling.

Is your rail pass good on the Greek ferries?

I would cut out Bordeaux if you want to do something in the Alps. You could go from Milan through the Dolomites and then on to Paris. The Cote d'Azur is worth much more than 2 days so I would leave this for another trip.

I dont think this is a realistic itinerary. Account for 1/2 a day lost to transit to/from the airport/train station, finding your hotel, checking in and out every time you change locations. So 1 night = 1/2 day in that location. If you add up all your travel time that equals alot of time, energy and cost without the benefit of experiencing or seeing anything in the location. When will you find time for photography?

I'd go back to the drawing board with the assumption that you will travel to Europe again and instead of planning to travel to as many places as possible but it back to 2-4+ days in less places so you have time to enjoy them. No point in spending all this money only to see the inside of trains/planes!

Definitely do not do Barcelona as a day trip - spend 4ish nights there.

Athens deserves several days, and all the time, effort it takes to get to Santorini I would spend a few days there.

How are you planning to get to Sorrento from Athens? Between the 2 days in Athens and Sorrento and travel time you will not have time to see anything in either place so whats the point? You will literally just get there go to sleep and then leave again! Your time from Sorrento through to Naples can be done from one or maybe two locations - Sorrento and Positano for example.

Also, base yourself in one place for Tuscany and do day trips - do you plan to use buses? or rent a car here?

Why are you going to Rome twice? It doesnt make sense to back track - spend all your time in Rome at one time, then head to Venice after Milan.

Give Bordeaux a skip - its ok if you are going to wine festivals, but not worth the effort to get over there for a couple of days and there are better uses of your time.

Loire for 1 day and then Mont St Michel does not make sense. Take a look at how trains work in France to see if you can do this easily...

Again, why are you splitting up your London stay - put it altogether!

Dublin I also think is not worth the time and effort to get there for 2 days.

I think you need to go back to the drawing board and take a map of Europe, together with train schedules etc and determine how much travel time you need to get to places and cut back at least 1/2 your destinations. Also group places in the same area together in one hotel stay so you dont have to move every night.

Happy Planning!

PS - you may also want to get help on the Thorntree forum where there are more young backpackers.

I actually like much of your itinerary, except I think you need to re-think the Spain portion of your trip, I'm not a big fan of Barcelona -- and you might not be either if you are not a partier or shopper -- but if you read up some more and decide you want to go, then you shouldn't attempt it as a day trip. I am a big fan of the Alhambra, Cordobo and the towns in the vicinity of Madrid, but you should take a look at all the options and decide for yourself how you want to allocate your time in Spain.

Without a car, I think Switzerland may be your best option for Alpine scenery. I understand that the train that goes up from Verona into Switzerland is quite pretty, and lands you in a very pretty part of Switzerland, but others know more about than I do.

I think you can happily skip Milan and you certainly don't need a lot of time in see Sorrento, but it does make a convenient base for seeing a lot of other things -- Pompei, Capri, even Positano by ferry. Personally, I would prefer to base right in Naples. (Also, Naples is cheap.)

I'd probably skip the Cote d'Azur entirely, especially since you will have seen such spectacular scenery in Greece and southern Italy. Ditto le Cinque Terre (I'd give that time to Rome.)

Finally, perhaps you can find 14 days worth of photo shoots in Iceland, but I'd be more curious to see something of the Irish countryside for part of that time. I think I'd put all my London time together, head up Ireland or Scotland, and then maybe keep going to Iceland. (Again, I think Iceland is expensive.)

Anyway, have fun.

OK --you have the luxury of time. I wouldn't waste so much of it in trains/train stations.

You have twenty-eight destinations. And considering Iceland and Rome fill 27 days, that leave 26 stops in a little over 60 days. This is crazy-making . . .

Look at a few of your stops: Almost every city that you list as '2 days' would require 3 nights to net 2 full days there. And each of your one-day'ers would require a 2 night stay.

So go back and re count/re-calibrate.

First off thank you SO much everyone for the responses!

I'm going to be on a tight budget, staying in hostels in this trip. I'm a young guy, and I don't drink... so no problem with hangovers

1. My once in a lifetime comment.. I didn't mean I will never be back. I actually want to do this trip to see what parts I really love about my travels so I know where to go next time.
2. The Eurail pass is good on Greek ferries, thanks. Also, some of the trip are long like 8 hour or 15 hour boat rides. I will try to organize these to be overnight.
3. I will be using public transportation on this whole trip.
4. The reason I am going to Rome twice is because my itinerary leaves me there right smack dab on Easter Sunday. Id rather not be in the city during the crazy weeks of Easter so I thought I would go to the Vatican on Easter Sunday. Then get the hell out of there and come back when its not as crowded and once I’ve travelled through Tuscany. I realize its silly to go back and forth but I assume that is the risk I take unless I want to deal with huge crowds.
5. I have decided to cut a few places on my lists in order to spend more days in my stops. I agree with you guys that I am trying to do a lot. When I first had my idea of 90 days in Europe I thought that would mean so much time to do everything but it’s really not!
6. I am still rethinking what I will do about UK/Ireland. The problem I face is getting to Iceland is only really cheap from London. So when I go to visit London first, id have to go from there to Ireland and then back to London to catch my flight to Iceland. It gets tricky…

-- these are towns I am fairly confident I will drop --

Barcelona, Spain (Not sure if I will like it, not a big party guy. More into the sights. I’ll look into day trips out of Madrid if I run out of things to do!)
Capri, Italy (Ugh this place looks beautiful, but the Amalfi coast will look pretty amazing so hopefully I wont miss out too much)

San Gimignano (Siena and Lucca seem similar so I'll spend more time in those towns instead)

Milan, Italy (This is fine to skip if you guys think I would benefit more by staying in Rome longer or other cities)

Bordeaux (Seems like this isnt really a popular place!)

-- Considering dropping / not yet decided on --

Côte d'Azur, France (I was thinking about going to Verdon du Gorge which is nearby which looks absolutely beautiful.)

Chateau de Chenonceau ( I thought this place might be neat to just get some quick photos and maybe a lunch before heading to Paris, it wouldnt add on to a rail pass day if I arrive around noon. I'll rethink)

La Spezia / Cinque Terre (I would really love to go here, so this is still up for grabs)

Thank you SO much everyone for the responses!

I'm going to be on a tight budget, staying in hostels in this trip. I'm a young guy, and I don't drink... so no problem with hangovers

1. My once in a lifetime comment.. I didn't mean I will never be back. I actually want to do this trip to see what parts I really love about my travels so I know where to go next time.
2. The Eurail pass is good on Greek ferries, thanks. Also, some of the trip are long like 8 hour or 15 hour boat rides. I will try to organize these to be overnight.
3. I will be using public transportation on this whole trip.
4. The reason I am going to Rome twice is because my itinerary leaves me there right smack dab on Easter Sunday. Id rather not be in the city during the crazy weeks of Easter so I thought I would go to the Vatican on Easter Sunday. Then get the hell out of there and come back when its not as crowded and once I’ve travelled through Tuscany. I realize its silly to go back and forth but I assume that is the risk I take unless I want to deal with huge crowds.
5. I have decided to cut a few places on my lists in order to spend more days in my stops. I agree with you guys that I am trying to do a lot. When I first had my idea of 90 days in Europe I thought that would mean so much time to do everything but it’s really not!
6. I am still rethinking what I will do about UK/Ireland. The problem I face is getting to Iceland is only really cheap from London. So when I go to visit London first, id have to go from there to Ireland and then back to London to catch my flight to Iceland. It gets tricky…
7. Also, if you guys suggest any other cities to visit since I will be dropping quiet a few please do let me know. Smaller countryside towns in France would be nice since really I’m just visiting Paris and Mont Saint Michel (which is near the ferry that goes to Ireland) which is a bit disappointing.

-- these are towns I am fairly confident I will drop --
Barcelona, Spain (Not sure if I will like it, not a big party guy. More into the sights. I’ll look into day trips out of Madrid if I run out of things to do!)
Capri, Italy (Ugh this place looks beautiful, but the Amalfi coast will look pretty amazing so hopefully I wont miss out too much)

San Gimignano (Siena and Lucca seem similar so I'll spend more time in those towns instead)

Milan, Italy (This is fine to skip if you guys think I would benefit more by staying in Rome longer or other cities)

Bordeaux (Seems like this isnt really a popular place!)

-- Considering dropping / not yet decided on --

Côte d'Azur, France (I was thinking about going to Verdon du Gorge which is nearby which looks absolutely beautiful.)

Chateau de Chenonceau ( I thought this place might be neat to just get some quick photos and maybe a lunch before heading to Paris, it wouldnt add on to a rail pass day if I arrive around noon. I'll rethink)

La Spezia / Cinque Terre (I would really love to go here, so this is still up for grabs)

People going to northern Tuscany for 8 days would have no trouble at all seeing Siena, San Gimignano, Lucca and Pisa and Florence over the course of those 8 days, and I don't think you will either. In fact, if you hadn't listed them separately, and just said to people: "I'm spending 8 days in Northern Tuscany, is that enough time to see these places?" then you would have received a resounding YES.

Likewise, spending 9 days to see Sorrento, Capri, the Amalfi Coast, Pompei and Naples is almost twice as much time as is usually recommended on this board to see those places.

If you had said you were looking for "bases", then people would have reacted differently to your itinerary. But if you prefer a road trip or rolling train trip, this isn't a bad rough sketch at all.

Hi,

We were posting at the same time.

Rather than ask for more destinations, I think you should leave air in your trip so you can improvise as you go. You'll have a rail pass, so you might want to linger in some places and skip others completely once you get a feel for where you are.

Rome itself won't be crazy crowded on Easter, but a great many museums and sights will be shut.

San Gimignano, Siena and Lucca all have their own character, and are very different from each other. That is part of the fascination of Tuscany, all these towns near to each other than are like universes unto themselves. But if you are spending a week in the area, especially during Easter, you might find just jumping on the train or bus and taking a flyer on a town that wasn't pre-planned by you is a great way to spend your time.

Only go to le Cinque Terre if the weather is nice, and it is not hard to get to from Pisa. If you want to spend nights there, don't go on a weekend without hotel reservations. But you can almost always find them in La Spezia if all else fails.

Hello,

Thanks. Sorry I think your right we posted the same time and didn't see.

I like the idea of leaving some wiggle room for my trip, which is nice. However I would like to know at least some neat places that I can either go to or skip depending on what I feel that day. Some ideas to visit would be nice to keep in mind.

Thanks for the Tuscany ideas. I think its smart to have a list of towns I NEED to visit and then a list to keep in mind as I travel so if I feel like I would like to spend more time in Tuscany I can visit San Gimagnano and if not I'll move on.

Cinque Terre... Weather seems to have a role, and in fact weather will knock a few days off my trip since I wont be doing any cool picture taking when it rains somewhere so that is something to consider.

Thanks.

You definitely need to scale back your stops. Too many short stopovers don't give you any time for relaxation. It's not about the quantity, it's all about the quality. Don't make the mistake of trying to fit too much in. 3 months is a great amount of time. Use it wisely. You know you'll be going back one day. Save some for then.

>>The Eurail pass is good on Greek ferries, thanks. <<

Only on the international ferries between Italy and Greece. It won't be good for domestic ferries, e.g. Piraeus - Santorini.

If you plan to take the ferry to Santorini, be aware that you will use most of one day to get there, and another to get back to Athens. That's a big chunk out of the 4 days you have planned for Greece. It would be better if you could find a direct flight from Italy to Santorini, then to Athens from there.

You said you are interested in historic sites and picturesque areas, then you allocate 2-3 days in Athens and 1 day on Santorini (!) There is much more to Athens than just the Parthenon, Acropolis hill itsself contains about 6-7 sites of varied size and 2-3 museums too. There are 2 hills in Athens center where you can hike and enjoy aerial views of the city. There arfe scenic parts of city making for great pics, such as Anafiotika area (built by people coming from Anafi island decades ago and architecture is resempling a Greek island)Santorini is a 75 square klms island, but still has interesting spots, 2-3 worthy small museums, and varied scenery. Both areas can be a haven for a photographer. And what about a couple of side trips, like a half day trip to Sounion or a day trip to Delphi while on Athens, and maybe adding an other island on your way from Athens to Santorini? You allocate so much time in Rome and Italy, still not even a week in Greece...Doesn't make sense to me.
As other people noted, Dublin worths more than a couple of days, plus Ireland makes for a fantastic country side. There are some very interesting places combining history and scenery too, for example Newgrange which is even older than Pyramids in Egypt. I would no way go all the way to a country to spend only 2 days!
Please note that it is very important to have a specific budget and start countring on costs too. "On a budget" can mean anything. Note that hostels are not availiable anywhere, you have to look closely on accomondation costs. Furthrmore, the more you move around, the more you spend. And note that WHEN exactly you plan to be where, is very important when it comes to costs and availiability. You may want to book accomondation and transport asap around Easter dates in Rome for example, if you want to insure you'll find somewhere suitable to stay and yoiu'll be able to go there at first place.

OK, here is an example of what I would consider a more reasonable plan:

Fly into Madrid, train to Seville
Seville
Seville
Seville
Train to Madrid
Madrid
Day trip to Toledo
Madrid
Fly to Athens, then onto Santorini
Santorini
Santorini
Santorini
fly to Athens
Athens (day trip to Delphi)
Athens
Athens
Athens
Fly to Rome train to base in Sorrento/Amalfi Coast
Sorrento/Amalfi coast (see Amalfi Coast)
Sorrento/Amalfi coast (see Pompeii)
Sorrento/Amalfi coast (see Naples)
Sorrento/Amalfi coast (see Capri)
Sorrento/Amalfi coast (RELAX)
Train to Rome
Rome
Rome
Rome
Rome
Rome
Rome
Train to Venice
Venice
Venice
Venice
Train/Drive to base in Tuscany
Tuscany
Tuscany
Tuscany
Head to Florence dropping car at airport
Florence
Florence
Florence
Train to Cinque Terre stopping in Pisa
Cinque Terre
Cinque Terre
Cinque Terre - somewhere in the Alps?
Alps - will you need a car?
Alps
Alps
Alps to Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Train Nice to Dijon (taste of wine country and great town!
Dijon
Dijon (day trip to Beaune)
Train Dijon to Paris
Paris
Paris (day trip to Giverny)
Paris
Paris
Paris
Paris
Fly to Dublin
Dublin
Dublin
Irish Countryside
Irish Countryside
Irish Countryside
Irish Countryside
Fly Shannon to London
London
London
London
London
London
London
London to Iceland
Iceland
Iceland
Iceland
Iceland
Iceland
Iceland to New York
New York
New York
New York
New York
New York - home

If you lay it out this way you can see the days taken up by travel...I know the whole day isnt travel, but it more clearly shows what time you have where. I didnt include all the places you wanted, but hope this give you a better idea!

Happy Planning!

I had to laugh at your comment that you are scoping out the places you will want to go back to. I said the same thing when I made my first trip to Europe on a coach tour of 11 countries in 21 days. The problem was that I loved it all. Now, so many years later, I'm still going and going and going. Happy travels!

Jamikins,

I have no idea why you think that is a more reasonable trip except that this is the way you like to travel. I would not want to spend that much time in Santorini or Seville. To me, basing in Sorrento instead of Naples (1 day in Naples?) is hell. Why all that time in Nice? 7 nights in NY? 4 nights in le Cinque Terre? Why?

I mean, honestly, the attempt to portray the OP's wish list as unreasonable because you'd personally rather spend 4 nights in Florence in addition to 4 nights in the Tuscan countryside I don't think is helpful or wise. It is misleading to pretend to people there is some objective number of days everybody should spend some place.

The OP has 3 months. If he or she wants to see Mont St Michel at the expense of crawling around Tuscany or Nice or Seville for several days in a row, that is not an unreasonable plan.

z: Can you EVER respond w/o the snark and nastiness??

It is possible to present your own ideas w/o attacking someone else . . . honest. Why not try it sometime?

zeppole - I thought you had quit the forum? I guess you're back with more of your nasty temper when people don't agree absolutely with you.

We are all giving subjective advice.

"...Switzerland would be neat if there's a really neat place. I'd only be able to go to 1 or 2 spots in the high country because of Eurail days."

Switzerland is a very small country and jammed packed with 'neat places': beautiful scenery - both high altitude and low. I'd try to fit it in if I could. Best photographic bang for your buck. Four trips already and I still find loads of stuff to click away at there.

Sigh - exactly why I started with 'this is what I would cOnsider...' but of course you are right as always because you always are. Welcome back...really...

and where on earth did you get 7 nights in NYC? The op said they wanted 4 days in NYC...is that not what I allocated...??