I have never been to Disney Paris but heard it is much smaller than in the States. I bet you could shave off two days from that bit.

I was going to comment the same - my understanding is the park is quite small and 1 day should do it.

Interesting! I thought 3days would be needed. I think it's a package deal with the hotel and the hotel has a really cool indoor pool . . .I'll see if we can take a day off and do an extra day at Rheims though. Thanks guys

There's lots to do in the Cotswolds plus they are close to Stratford-on-Avon and Warwick Castle, the latter would be a big hit with your kids, I expect, but don't know their ages. If your children are very young, choose the area which interests you and your husband because both the Cotswolds and Cornwall have gardens and parks for little ones plus things like petting zoos, minature villages, tourist trains.

Cornwall is also loaded with family-friendly attractions plus beaches. In Cornwall, I like the Fowey-Polperro area on the south coast or further out, in or near St Ives. Look for a cottage for your Cornish holiday.

Have not read your other thread, are you planning to take a rental car across to France? I would not do this, would instead go to the Cotswolds or Cornwall first, then turn in UK rental, spend time in London, then take eurostar London to Paris, use public transport in Paris, go out to Disney via RER, then pick up another rental at Disney.

What are your interests in Reims? If you take a day off Disney, I would add it to Paris.

You should think through the time and effort to drive in and out of the number of cities you've chosen. Consider cutting back on the number of moves. From Day 36 to 55, do you need to change locations so much? Would two bases be better? Siena, for example, is interesting, but I enjoyed it as a day trip from a country base. By the time you reach Italy, it is going to be very crowded and hot. I would want a place with a pool in the country from which I could do day trips.

Why so much time in Frankfurt?

I would keep the three days in Disney and sit at the pool. Kids love pools, and with this busy itinerary you might appreciate the downtime.

In common with many itineraries we see on this forum, your trip seems to revolve largely around large towns and cities (apart from your week in the Cotswolds/Cornwall). I sometimes wonder if this is because these are the only places people from the other side of the world have heard of, or they are genuinely not interested at all in countryside/scenery. European cities have many many things to see and do, but visiting one after the other for several weeks could be exhausting and repetitive.

<<<<Cathinjoetown>>>>
Thanks for all your advice!

we are leasing a car as we didn't want to use trains with our luggage so we thought we would rather drive and see parts of Europe that you don't get to see unless you have a car.

can you name any bases for cotsworld or cornswell so we can end up in dover but still get the chance to see all the great things in those areas. We ideally would love just one or two places to sleep in and then do day trips to all of those great places.

We have someone to visit in Frankfurt and we also see there are traintrips from Frankfurt to places of interest.

<<<<<steviegene>>>>We have thought by having the car at Disney we could also take a drive out of the area for a day if needed but yes I like the idea of relaxing in the pools etc.

<<<<Gordon_R>>>>> More then happy for you to suggest other places. We just had a look on the drive to Prague from Italy to choose those days and again Paris to Barcelona and Barcelona to Varenna ..but if you know places that would be better please suggest away. We don't mind a longer drive if the place is better and we can stay a few nights rather then one etc. So far we have booked in London,Paris,Barcelona and Varrena the rest is still able to change so suggest away

Thanks again!

Wow, this is some trip with a pair of little kids in tow. I hope they're good in the car! We did something similar with our kids at the same age but slowed it right down and made an effort to give them three or four home bases from which we set out to explore each day. It worked well and they were able to form relationships with local people and know they were going 'home' each day - it's interesting how disoriented small children get when they're moving on all the time. It meant we missed out on a few places we might have visited if we had just been two adults travelling child free but in retrospect I think it made the whole trip less frazzled and more enjoyable.

I agree with what others have said about Disney - it's small and nothing like the US version really. One day is plenty.

I'd also think about Varenna. The lake is lovely but once you've ridden on the ferry and visited a garden or two, there's not a lot that's going to maintain the kids' interest.

Siena is a joy but it's a day trip, or two at the most, with young children. My advice would be to rent a villa in the country, with a pool for the kids, and explore the plethora of lovely hilltowns and villages that are within easy driving distance. You can easily reach all over Umbria and Tuscany in day trips. Have a look at Il Palazzo outside Arezzo for a pleasant place to stay for a week.

Then I would ditch the car and go to Rome, rent an apartment in Trastevere and spend a week exploring the city. There's lots to see and do.

From Rome take a train to Bologna, if it interests you, and Verona. I think a day or two in either place is sufficient. Then get the train up the valley to Austria, a magnificent rail journey. I'd recommend getting off at Bolzano to see a very different side of Italy, where they speak German and eat wurst! There's a superb museum there where you can visit Otzi the Bronze age iceman who popped out of a glacier a few years back. You can travel for the rest of your trip on the excellent trains and you certainly won't need a car in any of the big cities you list to follow.

I imagine your trip will take you from Innsbruck to Salzburg to Vienna before you go on to Prague. Both Salzburg and Vienna are wonderful, more so than Innsbruck which is more of a sporting centre I think. If you do decide to travel by train, they are also logical stopping points.

I also suspect your kids will do much better on a train than in a car as they can move around freely.

I've actually done everything I am recommending to you and wouldn't change any of it. To sum up, my advice would be to slow it down, even if it means coming back some other time to see the things you've missed this trip.

I understand wanting a car for most of your trip but work the numbers-- where are you going to park in London and Paris and for how much? You will not want or need a car in either city, in fact, major liability.

Can you return a leased right-side steering wheel car in Frankfurt? I suppose you can and certainly you can drive right-hand cars on the Continent but it takes just that much more diligence. Can't your lease commence after Paris?

The Cotswolds is a relatively small area northwest of London. Cornwall is a large county, the furthest southwest in England. Viamichelin gives the driving distance to Dover as 3 hours from The Cotswolds and 6 hours, 42 minutes from St Ives in Cornwall but you need to add at least 50% to those times.

I can suggest specific hotels, B&Bs and/or cottage rental agencies if you want to rent. What is your budget?

I really, really think you are making more work and incurring more costs than you need but...

<<<<mbloggs>>>> THANK YOU! We already have slowed it down! We had planned on doing greece and the south of italy but have taken that out because of the kids. Since we are leasing a car we won't have the luxury of doing train trips to move to different countries. We really didn't want to be on trains with our luggage.

We also agree that staying in one place for a few days to a week is best. Can you think of a good base in Tuscany that would allow us to take a train to Siena and such places. We would love a place to stay base at.

We have been to Rome twice before so as much as we love it we are happy with the idea of just training it in for the day etc.

Thanks for all you suggestions . .I'll take a look and see how we go adjusting it

I would substitute Mantova for both Verona and Bologna. Mantova is in between them and has much easier logistics if you have a car -- although you MUST be careful about not driving the car into the off-limits areas of the historic center. If you find a place to stay within the center, a b&b will give you a temporary permit to park near them. HOWEVER, you should go to the police station yourself and confirm that your license plates were recorded by them. Just double check that. Othewise, if your license plates are photgraphed, you could later be sent a huge ticket.

This is also true if you stay in Bologna or Verona. Some areas of the cities are off-limitis for cars that whose license plates are not registered with the police as having permission to be in the old historic center.

Mantova is a great place in its own right, and you can easily drive around and find towns to visit, like Modena, Ferrara, towns around Verona and the Lago di Garda. You can park your car and take a train to Milan for an afternoon.

It is hot there, and there are mosquitoes, so get a place that is air conditioned.

PS: Verona holds its HUGE opera festival during the time you will be in Italy, and this year it is the 150th anniversary of the festival. That means prices in Verona will be very high, and the city will be crowded on days when there are opera goings on. It is another reason to avoid staying in the city, and if you decide you want to visit Verona, you might find it much easier to take a train from Mantova that day.

If you would like something cooler than Mantova for a break, you could also consider staying in Peschiera del Garda, on Lago di Garda. Make sure wherever you book has parking.

I can see that you are trying to avoid one-night stays, and that is the right plan, but you are still buying a long highway drive from Lago Bracciano to northern Italy, even if you make Bologna your first stop. It gets even longer if you take my suggestion of Mantova instead, or Peschiera del Garda.

You might consider going just past Florence and stopping for the night, and then going on to Peschiera del Garda for 3 nights. The area just north of Florence is known as the Mugello, and you can find lots of small places with swimming pools. I think you will need air con too for that time of year.

http://www.discovertuscany.com/mugello/

http://www.discovertuscany.com/mugello-accommodation/

Also, I've forgotten, but aren't your children really very small? I realize this is an expensive trip no matter how you slice it, but Disneyland is going to be nothing but paying through the nose for everything at every turn. Unless you want to go, I think your kids would probably more appreciate not being cooped up in a car for some of the long drives you could shorten by taking the Disney days adding them to the latter half of your trip, where you are moving pretty much all the time.

<<<Cathinjoetown<<<< we don't pick the car up until we are leaving London and we are lucky that the apartment we are staying at has given us parking when in Paris The great thing about the lease is that you can drop it off anywhere with no penalty ... not sure if it will be right or left hand??? Our budget is for most places is trying to be no more then 120 pounds a night. With B&B's how do they work when we need to bedrooms . .are they like apartments? I hat the thought that a stranger might be able to get into my kids rooms etc.

Any places you recommend would be great!

<<<goldenautumn>>> thank you ever so much for letting us know about Varona . .we have been before and don't need to go again so thanks! and I will check out your suggestion! So would you stay that we would be able to find one place in Tuscany to stay at and then take our trips from here by train to the different towns including Rome?

I would hate to think how we would have gone without all your help!

Oh . . is Disney not free once you pay for your ticket?

No, I was not suggesting one location in Tuscany from which you could visit Rome. I was suggesting (if you end up doing such a huge car tour through Europe):


Day 45-50 - Bracciano (visit Rome from this location)

Day50-51 - Mugello area of Tuscany -- rest

Day 53-55 - Peschiera del Garda

If you prefer 2 nights in Mugello + 2 nights in Peschiera del Garda, that would also be my suggestion instead 2 Bologna + 2 Verona

However, in general, I think you are missing an opportunity in Italy to take a break from all the driving and city hopping, and just enjoy some extended relaxation, since Italy and the Italian countryside and lakes are so wonderful for relaxation. It is especially time consuming that you are coming from Mediterranean France and heading almost to the Swiss border, only to turn around and head south through Tuscany to reach Rome -- where you have already been and it will be hellishly hot by then -- and then turn around to head back again through Tuscany in order to get across the northern border.

If you have been to Rome and Verona, and you are not picking your Italian itinerary based on targeting sights you have always wanted to see, I suggest that once you are leaving Nice/Monaco, head to the area of Lucca (you can even stay in Lucca itself, or in another small town like Pescia or Montecatini). Or if you would prefer to be in the Chianti so you can visit Siena, go there. After a nice rest, go to Peschiera del Garda. (There is an Italian amusement park there that is much more suitable for small children plus you get to see an Italian amusement park).

Or, if you have your heart set on Lago di Como, go there but then pick another town west of Innsbruck if you really want to go to Munich.

So, essentially take 15 days from the time you leave Nice (skip Montecarlo) to the time you leave in Italy somewhere in northern Tuscany, and then on one of the lakes. Add the savings of days to slowing down for the remainder of your trip.

I've never been to Disneyland anywhere except Anaheim, CA as a child, and my recollection of that was you bought books of tickets for amusement rides in addition to paying an admission fee, and nothing was cheap. I don't know if it is now different at the park in Paris. Once you are inside the park, food is expensive. Children who are very small don't need such a high dose of entertainment. I wouldn't be inclined to spend a lot of money keeping them amused when there are plenty of places with swings and sandboxes and where they can play with balls and kites.

This is what I'm suggesting in case it wasn't clear:

Day 33-36 -Drive through France to arrive in Italy

Day 36-42 - Lucca area OR Chianti area

Day 42-49 - Lago di Garda OR Lago di Como

Day 50 -- 53 -- Leave from Lago di Garda from Innsbruck OR Leave from Lago di Como for Swiss town north on way to Munich

So you will have more days to move more slowly in other places, and even more than that if you skip Disneyland as well (I would just add those days to Paris to make a full week's apartment rental there).

Well, as you're committed to the car, try to get one with steering on the left as most of your driving will be on the Continent.

My favorite base in the Cotswolds is Burford. I like The Lamb and the Bay Tree Hotels, both small. You can inquire whether they have a family room or two rooms with inner connecting door. Of course you can't put children that small in an adjacent room without a connecting door. Small hotels and B&Bs are more likely to have family rooms.

You might look at Wyck Hill House just outside Stow on the Wold but have not stayed there in years. There are people on here who live in the Cotswolds who will have better suggestions for the area. Also look at cottages, almost always a better bargain with more space.

My favorite hotel on the south coast of Cornwall is the Talland Bay which also has cottages. It is over your budget but have a look, it's a lovely place. However, you can easily find a small cottage at or under your budget. A few web addresses: www.tallandbayhotel.co.uk www.bedandbreakfastburford.co.uk www.cornishcottageholidays.net www.beachside.co.uk

Don't leave booking too long, while UK schools will still be in session, June is popular with couples with young children such as yourself, couples without children and retirees!

I have never leased a car, but I would definitely assume a car leased in London will be a right hand drive - which will make driving 'interesting' on the continent!! And are you sure you can drop a right hand drive in Frankfurt - these are things I would definitely check into ASAP!

Agree, Jami, but as OP says leased car can be dropped anywhere, am hoping they have left-side steering cars avaiable. I've driven our French car in the UK and a UK car in France but would not want to do it for an extended road trip.

Still, there are plenty of Brits resident in France driving their UK cars for years.

I thought from your other threads you were reconsidering the lease??

If you are picking the car up in the UK it is almost certain to be RHD. Why not consider renting a car for the short time you are driving around England . . . and then get a leased car once you hit the Continent.

(personally - I'd still do a combo of rentals and trains and forget about the lease because of all the cities you are visiting. But you seem really [REALLY] reluctant to use trains)

Really like the idea to go to Gardaland (http://www.gardaland.it/resort/), it's a great amusement park and very Italian. Sirmione in that area is a darling town too.

Crazy- just a couple of comments to re-enforce some of the above-
1. With children distracting you, driving with the same car in England and on the continent will be very very challenging. I have driven on the left hand side in England and Ireland for 10 to 12 days in a row and, even tho I did not have any alcohol until the car was always parked for the night, was very happy to return the cars with only minor damage. Rent a car when you leave London and return it before taking the train to Paris.
Once you are in France, I believe you can lease cars through Renault when you leave Paris and they are brand new. And I think insurance is included. Also, I think there is a drop fee but it isn't that much. I understand wanting to drive everywhere because of the hassle with luggage, but parking in some cities will cost more than the car rental. And be careful with the size of the car- you can only put 2-3 suitcases in the trunk in all but the larger (and a lot more expensive) rental cars. And if the car is too large you will have trouble driving on some of the smaller (narower)roads.And if you have a lot of luggage, there is the problem with unpacking the car and getting up multiple flights of stairs with the luggage if the hotel doesn't have an elevator. Maybe you could reduce the amount of luggage and use laundramats more- The standard way to pack is to pack what you think you will need then repack with half as much. There are supermarkets and department stores all over in which you can purchase items that you forget or run out of.

2. Having spent 1 night in Varenna, as mbloggs pointed out, Varenna is really small with not much to do except eat and stroll the lakefront. Six days would really bore me unless I had relatives there.

3. I would replace Innsbruck with Salzburg and the surrounding lakes (add a day or 2 from Varenna).

4. Maybe spend more time in Munich ( add a day or 2 from Varenna) and visit the castles and other sights around Fussen.

I hope you have a wonderful trip and please write a trip report- everyone with children will appreciate it!

Goodmorning!!!

Ok . .just rechecking the lease and yes we are getting a left hand drive car ...but is this going to be tricky in England? DO you think we should rent a car in the uk and then pick up the "lease car in France?"

We do still want to see Cotsworld and Cornwall so THANKYOU SO MUCH <<<Cathinjoetown<<<

Will def look into those places!

Now after everyones suggestions I have finally convinced hubby to change our plans somewhat .. .we will hire a car in the uk for the week to cornwall and cotsworld. and then I assume we can drop it off somewhere and catch a train into Paris? I am pretty sure our apartment is still available the week before so we will stay in Paris for 12days but do day trips to Disney and the Champagne houses etc. (This way we are not wasting our money paying for parking in Paris )

(We could make it less days in Paris and then spend more time in the South of France on the way to Barcelona or stay longer then 3days in Barcelona???) Either way we will pick up our lease car in France and start our drive.

WHat do you think of this idea?

Just to make it even more interesting how about when we get to Italy we spend 5 days (or is this still too long) in Varenna . .remembering our day trip to Milan is in this time.

then drive to an apartment in Tuscany that isn't too far from a train station for 8/9days . . from this base we will take a train to Rome/Siena/Florence etc and still do little drives to other places??? SUGGESTIONS PLEASE

then drive somewhere from this base to Salzburg.

This sound better?

Hi CF

>Day 16-19 - Disney
2 days too many

>Day 25-30 - Travel South to Barcelona
It's a 9hr drive the short way. How many stops, and for how long each stop, do you want to make on the way?

You might want to go Paris--> Bordeaux--> Pau--> Roda de Isábena--> Barcelona
You will see the ocean and the Pyrenees.

>Drive through France to...
See maps.google.com for Barcelona--> Avignon--> Briançon--> Lake Orta--> Varenna

You are leaving out Venice????????????????

morning <<<ira>>> I think we are going to just do a day trip to Disney and stay longer in Paris now . . tell me do you pay entrance fee and then pay for rides as well??? The trip to Barcelona we have put aside 4 days . .but we could extend it if you thought that would be best We don't know what would be best . . we thought a night somewhere in the "loire Valley" then a few days in Sarlet . . .then Barcelona? This was based off someones recommendations . . .what do you think?

We have been to Venice twice now ..mind you it was in WInter . . .everyone seems to love it but we don't have fond memories of the place . . .it was coldest place we had ever been . .the gondola ride was expensive and the water was smelly and dirty . . .so we didn't think we would go again but everyone seems to suggest to go there! WHY . .what am I missing? It has been over 10 years since we last went have things changed?

I like the sound of the drive from Barcelona to Varenna . .what would you suggest in regards to time spent in these places.

Can I also just take this time to say THANK YOU to everyone for helping us! I PROMISE it will end up as a blog for others travelling with kids!

I am pretty sure the Disneyland Paris is just like the other Disneys where you buy an insanely expensive day pass and then all of the rides and attractions are included. But it will still be a very pricey day, EVERYTHING in Disney is expensive.

Your trip sounds awesome! Your kids are so lucky to have parents who are enthusiastic adventurers!

<<<MonicaRichards>>> Thanks for that I was hoping so! and <<<ahiddenbird>>> we figure you live once and we know we have great kids and we love doing the kids things as well ...I just know this trip is going to be great! Just got to figure out the details

I think it was goldenautumn who mentioned ride tickets at Disneyland. That info is probably 35+ years out of date. (long before there even was a DL Paris) No you don't have to but tickets for individual rides.

"but is this going to be tricky in England? DO you think we should rent a car in the uk and then pick up the "lease car in France?""

Uh - yes I think that is what I said. I was assuming it would be a RHD car which would be harder on the Continent. But being a LHD car just means it will be harder in the UK.

BTW - please note it is 'the Cotswolds' not 'Cotsworld'. Once could have been a typo but not four times. (Cotsworld sounds like a theme park)

hi <<<janisj>>> thanks for that . . I have set up shortcuts with the towns names and didn't put an "s" on the end . .whoops! So I think this change is better . . .rent a car in the uk for one week . .train to Paris and after Paris pick up a car to drive south of France to Barcelona and so forth.

Thanks again !

"Just to make it even more interesting how about when we get to Italy we spend 5 days (or is this still too long) in Varenna . .remembering our day trip to Milan is in this time."

I still think 5 days in Varenna is too long. Why not spend a couple of days on the lake and then for a completely different thought - drive down to Rapallo. There's a fantastic small hotel in Rapallo, in the hills above the town, with room to park. It offers meals and when I stayed there in June was nowhere near full. From there you can drive or go up and down the mountain to the town on a cable car, which is great fun for the kids. From Rapallo you can get the train and do a Cinque Terre walk, spend a day at the beach, catch the bus to Santa Margherita Ligure, get a boat to and from the pretty town of Portofino, and do a day trip into Genoa which is a fascinating city. The Italian Riviera is one of my all time favourite spots in Italy, arguably on a par with the Amalfi coast.

Why are you going to Milan? It's a very big busy city, and while I like it for shopping and the duomo and the Last Supper, it doesn't strike me as a great choice with young kids.

In Tuscany I already mentioned a place called Il Palazzo, an agriturismo (working farm - oil and wine) in the hills outside Arezzo. It has a range of apartments, a lovely pool and space for kids to run around. Arezzo is a wonderful city (I lived there for a year) and is not full of tourists. It has a beautiful centre to explore and if you're into art, the frescoes of Piero della Francesca. You can catch a train to Florence and then go on to places like Lucca or Pisa, a bus to Siena (90 minutes) or you could drive to any of these places. If that doesn't appeal, there are thousands of villas advertised on the internet near regional centres like Florence, Cortona, Siena, Perugia, Lucca. the only one of these places with fast connections to Rome though would be Florence. The rest require train changes and slower trains or buses.

I totally approve of driving to Salzburg. What a lovely small city with a beautiful castle to visit and truly memorable cake!

" . . . and didn't put an "s" on the end . .whoops!

No, it isn't the 's' that is the problem.

The area is called 'the Cotswolds'. Cotswold (sans s) is a perfectly good adjective. "Cotswold stone", "Cotswold village", etc.

What isn't correct is the "r" you keep adding . . . Cotsworld

So glad you plan to pick up the leased car after Paris--I know you mentioned you had arranged parking but you won't need it for day trips, Reims is so easy by train and Disney by RER. Your time in Paris will fly by, if you want there are more easy day trips--Versailles, Giverny, Chantilly, Rouen, etc.

If you could start the UK part of your trip with the Cotswolds or Cornwall, then do London, you can take the eurostar direct to Paris from St Pancras station in central London. Most trains, but not all, stop in Ashford in Kent, so that's an option rather than going back into London but a long drive from Cornwall. If you leave the UK from Cornwall, check flights from Exeter, Flybe I believe flies Exeter-Paris, there may be others. Also there are flights from Southampton, both easier, imo, than driving to Ashford for eurostar. You do have to watch luggage allowances.

>>>then drive to an apartment in Tuscany that isn't too far from a train station for 8/9days . . from this base we will take a train to Rome/Siena/Florence etc and still do little drives to other places??? SUGGESTIONS PLEASE<<<

There is no location in Tuscany from which it is possible to daytrip to Rome/Siena/Florence by train or even by car. Just not possible. No way. Arezzo is a great place, but you cannot get to Rome from there and back in a day, and I doubt that in the middle of summer you will want to negotiate getting to the train station in Arezzo and taking the ride to Florence if you are staying in an agriturismo outside of town. You face something close to a 90 minute drive each way to Siena, all on winding roads, and when you get to Siena, you will need to climb hills in the heat and find a town wall-to-wall with tourists.

But give up the idea you will find anywhere in Tuscany that makes it possible for you and your kids to daytrip to Rome or easily take trains to Siena. If you stay in an area where you can easily see Florence by train, you will not be able to easily see Rome or Siena, and vice versa.

In the heat of summer, I think 5 days on Lago di Como with kids is a good idea, although I would pick someplace flatter than Varenna. As for the idea of going to Rapallo after Varenna, if you want to go, then you should go before you go to Varenna if you are coming from Nice.

Glad someone interested in Disneyland came up with the right ticket info (it's true that I haven't thought of it since I was taken there as a kid). Better to do it as a day trip if you want to do it all.

(Cotsworld sounds like a theme park)

... or a superstore selling baby's beds (no doubt located alongside Toys R Us and Currys)!

Sorry goldenautumn, but when we lived there four years ago we used to get from Arezzo to Rome and back in a day quite regularly. It's a long day but it can be done. We also used to get the train to Florence once a week and often caught the bus to Siena which was a 90 minute journey each way, departing at 8.30am and home on the 3.30pm bus. The bus delivers you right into the centre of the old city. No hills, no climbing. You can also get an early train to Florence and then pick up the train to Pisa or Lucca fairly easily as well. There are dozens of small towns in the area that you can visit. We also caught trains to Assisi, Perugia and Orvieto for the day on more than one occasion. These trips require an early start but are quite do-able.

Hi cf,

I know nothing about Disneyland,

>It has been over 10 years since we last went have things changed?

Somewhat.

>I like the sound of the drive from Barcelona to Varenna . .what would you suggest in regards to time spent in these places.

Take the route from Barcelona through the Pyrenees (Pigcuerda, Quillian) to Carcassone - 4:30 hr. Overnight in Carcassone, and visit the town again in the morning before going to Avignon - 2:30 hr.

Spend the next two weeks in Provence.

Avignon and vicinity are worth 4 nights.
Visit the city, Pont du Gard, L'isle-sur-la-sorgue, Gordes and Saint-Remy-de-Provence.

Take the route through Apt, Forcalcquier, Sisteron and Briancon to Lake Orta - 5:30 hr
Two nights and a day in Orta San Giulio and then drive to Varenna via Locarno and Lugano.

Enjoy your visit.

goodmorning <<mbloggs>>>
Thank you for your advice!

In regards to 5 days in Varenna being too long. We thought it might be best with the kids. We thought to use this as a base and then if we feel like we could drive to other towns etc We could stay less days and I love your idea of the other places but we thought we should stay in one spot for 5days for the kids and the view is amazing and they have a pool so if wanted to only do a small activity in the morning and come back with the kids to relax we could do while still enjoying an amazing view etc.

Milan is where we got engaged so we will be having lunch in the place where this happened

Thankyou for your recommendation about Tuscany ...I'll look into the prices and it sounds great!

Will change Innsbruck to Salzburg again thank you everyone!

OMG <<<janisj>>>>how embarrassing!!! didn't even notice that! hahahaha point taken!

<<<cathinjoe>>> Yes we thought that it made sense to pick the lease up in Paris . .we also save money this way I believe Day trips from Paris would be great!.

I like the idea of starting the UK part of your trip with the Cotswolds or Cornwall, then do London, so we can take the eurostar direct to Paris from St Pancras station in central London. Something to seriously look into! I guess we just thought if we started in London . . since we had been before . . .that it would be a little easier but I guess we could just go straight into the unknown

<<<Gordon_R>>>thank you for your input <<<ira>>>I like your suggestion from Barcelona
( the Pyrenees (Pigcuerda, Quillian) to Carcassone - 4:30 hr. Overnight in Carcassone, and visit the town again in the morning before going to Avignon - 2:30 hr)

As much as I would love to spend the next 2 weeks in the Provence alas 4 days will be it..so I have made note of your suggestions in Avignon.

<<<Take the route through Apt, Forcalcquier, Sisteron and Briancon to Lake Orta - 5:30 hr>>seems very long for us

but I have made note of this suggestion never the less.

AGAIN EVERYONE - THANK YOU!!!! I FEEL WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE

Disneyland Paris has a website with plenty of info on tickets and prices, and you can even get an eticket. They also have one that includes bus transportation from the center of Paris, although that isn't necessary, given you can get there on the RER. But it might be convenient. It's an all day pass that covers everything with a few exceptions. http://us.disneylandparis.com/index.xhtml

Disneyland Paris also has two parks, i spent 3 days with my then 3 year old enjoying both parks just over 3 years ago and that didn't feel like long enough lol. Their Disneyland Park (the original one) is definitely the better of the two however, a one day pass will cover all rides but as someone else said dining can get expensive and also things like disney outfits and souveniers which of course you don't have to buy! If you buy tickets in advance they have some offers on at the moment

Thank you Christina and fredandgingermad . . . I think I like the idea of staying in Paris for longer and then taking trips out to the park. If we feel we need another day or two we can do that instead of something else but at least the kids will have the same beds for the 10days in Paris etc.

Ok so here is where we are at.

We are now flying in to England on the 10th of June and picking up a rental car. Driving straight up to Drayton for2 nights at Thomas the Tank place ( HAPPY BIRTHDY PRESENT FOR MY BOY!) Then from there we are going to drive South. Hopefully we can get to Bath in the day (it said 2hrs) and spend a night or 2 there then continue South to Exeter for a night then we are not sure but we have 3 days to fill before returning the car and head into London.

Then London for a week and then catch the train to Paris!

10days in Paris - but this is so we can do our day trips to Disney and other places etc

We pick up our lease and drive South to Barcelona. We have allowed 3-5days I think. Barcelona for 3 nights.

Drive from Barcelona into Italy - not sure which way ... I am pretty sure Avignon way since we have been to Nice.

We have allowed 2-3weeks in italy. It is looking like 4 days at the lakes, a week in a villa in Tuscany.

Then we drive from Italy through Germany to get to Prague.

Prague to Berlin

Berlin to frankfurt

frankfurt to home

At this stage we just really want to sort the week in England- someone asked what is it that we really want to see and I guess it's castles and little picture perfect towns. I am tempted on driving down to see St Michael's Mount. I know we will want to go to Tintagel Castle and perhaps Pendennis castle. Any other thoughts this week for me to think about?

"We are now flying in to England on the 10th of June and picking up a rental car. Driving straight up to Drayton for2 nights at Thomas the Tank place"

OK - big problem here. Your are not going to 'Drayton', but to Drayton Manor (That is where the Thomas theme park is) which is near Tamworth. That is a minimum 2.5 hours from LHR and not a good idea on jet lag. Terrible idea actually. I'd stay the night near LHR (Windsor is good) and tackle the drive north after a good night's sleep.

And Tamworth to Bath will take about 3 hours (Hint: when using any of the on-line mileage calculators you need to add between 25% and 75% to the drive times)

Hi janisj ... Being his birthday we really wanted to be there for his birthday dinner etc any other way of getting there? How much would a taxi cost? Thanks for the tip re jet lag etc and adding time

Make sure you get a hotel in Bath that provides adequate parking. Bath is horrible for parking and a lot of hotels have more rooms than parking spaces.

oohhh thanks for the tip CarrieAnn40!

We are now flying in to England on the 10th of June and picking up a rental car. Driving straight up to Drayton for2 nights at Thomas the Tank place ( HAPPY BIRTHDY PRESENT FOR MY BOY!) Then from there we are going to drive South. Hopefully we can get to Bath in the day (it said 2hrs) and spend a night or 2 there then continue South to Exeter for a night then we are not sure but we have 3 days to fill before returning the car and head into London.>>

crazy, as others have said, not the best plan. if you haven't bought flight tickets yet, i suggest flying from Paris straight to Exeter, and going from there to Tintagel. stay 3 nights, then drive to Bath, and thence to Drayton Manor ,and back to London.

flybe fly from Paris to Exeter: http://www.flybe.com/

as for Paris, i understand your kids desire to go to Disney [i think] but if you want a real french experience, consider Parc Asterix: http://www.flybe.com/

our kids loved it, and counted it one of the most fun things we'd done on holiday - and we loved it too.

If your boy is 3 does one day really matter in terms of celebrating his birthday? Taxi from Heathrow would cost a bomb but the driver would sure think it was HIS birthday!

Why not stay in Windsor your first night--very close to Heathrow with probably the most impressive castle in England. Legoland also very close.

Then get to Drayton and on to Bath. What happened to the Cotswolds? I've forgotten how your are splitting the number of days between rural England and London. You don't want to bounce all over the place, at least I don't think you do.

Hi annhig And cathinjoetown.. Flights are booked so we are flying into heathrow. Is it really going to be too hard to get to Thomas land ??? I know it's not going to matter which day but we thought it might be the easiest ... We get in around 4ish so we assume driving around 5 so we thought check in have tea and get an early night then enjoy the next day at the park and either stay another night or start our drive somewhere. We have planned a week(could go to. 9 days) to travel the countryside of England ... We just really want to see castles and those postcard villages before going to London for 5 days to a week and then train it to Paris.

From looking at travel brouchers it seems Exeter is the place to stay and then do day trips from ... Annhig do you agree?

Seriously, take a deep breath and reflect. How many hours will you have been flying with two small children?

You get in at 4-ish. Best case you will be on the road by 6-ish. Thomas is very best case another 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 hours. Those are estimates on viamichelin which do not take into account traffic and there is always traffic on the motorways out of London.

I would not do it. Windsor is less than a half hour, reasonable taxi or pick up the car and drive over. Lots of nice places to stay and eat on the high street, literally across from the castle. Take time to tour the castle the next morning then head for Thomas Land around 1:00 or so.

From there you could come down through the Cotswolds and on to Bath, then you could go along the North Devon coast, which is beautiful, then come down into Cornwall to Tintagel. You can from then work your way down to St Ives. Lots of ground to cover in the time you have so I think you ought to start planning some reasonable routes, you're still very scatter-shot at the moment.

Just to throw out some ideas, do you really want two nights in Bath? Bath is lovely, not much for kids as I remember, but you can see a great deal in a day. Regarding the Cotswolds, I really think it's that area and Bath or Bath and Cornwall or some combination. You mention using Exeter as a base for Cornwall, not a good choice, imo, large-ish city to get in and out of and not on the coast.

Anyway, have to run but get out a map and think a bit about what you want to accomplish. You can certainly do a circular route that takes you as far as the SW corner of Cornwall and loops back up to London but it's a lot of ground to cover, particularly with the Thomas park to factor in. My Australian friends who come over here always talk about under-estimating travel time, we all do that but you still have time to think it through.

"We get in around 4ish so we assume driving around 5

In your dreams W/ a 4-ish arrival you might be ready to get to the rental shuttle by 5:00 - 5:30 is more likely. By the time you get to the cars and are ready to drive off - easily 6:00-6:30PM.Then a 3-ish hour drive. Insane (meant in the nicest possible way).

Do NOT even consider it!

cathinjoetown and jj are dead right.

at the moment I'm confused about where you're hoping to see in Cornwall [or Devon] but I'm pretty sure that Exeter isn't where you'd really want to stay, nice city though it is.

so much depends on the no,. of days/nights you've got that it's difficult to advise you, but I agree that a night in windsor would make a great start, MUCH better than driving for 3 hours after a long flight.

Just an added note on Disney -- unlike in the U.S., you are allowed to take food and drink into the park without a hassle. So definitely pack snacks for the kids and a few water bottles. You can save money by buying your tickets on line, but you may want to wait until you are in Paris just to make sure you are really up for it.

My daughter (aged 9) really enjoyed our day trip to Disney; it's a more manageable park and it was fun and quite convenient taking the train out there. We went in March, however, and the crowds were relatively light. Another thing to keep in mind is that we were at the park 12 full hours and didn't see one character -- so if seeing Mickey is important, you might have to make an effort to ensure it happens.

My husband still gives me grief over giving up a day trip to Chartres for Disneyland Paris, but my daughter had been a real trooper while I dragged her through museums and churches for several days, so I thought it was only fair (but really only because she saw the blasted Disney shuttle at the airport and knew it was there) .

thanks everyone! Ok we will do a night in Windsor ...tour the castle the next day and take the drive to Thomas Land after that. Basically we have the 12th of June to 26th of June to do whatever in England. We want to go to London and will take the train from here to Paris . .we want to see castles and pretty towns We have been told Cornwall is amazing but we are not really sure what and where . .you guys and other topics have guided my thoughts to be honest so...if you had 12th of June to 25th of June . .what would you do?

Looking forward to your thoughts . . Claire..PS I could always add more days for Paris if we can't fill them in England.

Oh and keep in mind hubby is a bit of a go go type of person so having a base and then travel from there would be great!

ok, crazy - so far so good.

Cornwall is amazing, honestly, we're not that hot on castles - and what could compare with Windsor, anyway?

I've reminded myself of the location of Drayton Manor, and from Tamworth [where it is] you could easily drop over into Wales, where there are castles galore, spend a night or so in cardiff [do your kids like Dr. Who?] and then drive round into North Devon, where there are lodas of lovely things to see [beaches, great coastline, Exmoor, pretty villages, the lovely Dunster castle and pretty town] before making for Bath and back to London.

with the time you've got, I would not say that driving all the way down into Cornwall would be worthwhile, but if you want me to make some suggestions I'll gladly do so.

ooohhh this is interesting . . . everyone in Aus keeps telling us to go to Cornwall! But I like the idea of what you are suggesting. Time frame what do you think? any chance you could map some days out for me We would love to go to Tinagel and also St Ives but if you don't think this is a wise idea we are open to your suggestions. We thought a night in Windsor then a night in thomas land, a night in Stratford upon Avon then a night in bath down to Torquay over to Tintagel down to st ives then back up to london...but hey nothing is set in stone! So ... we look forward to hearing what's suggested!

ok how does this sound:

Day 1 - Windsor
Day 2- Thomas land
Day 3+4- Cardiff
Day 5+6-Bath
Day 7+8-Devon
Day 9-Sailsbury???
Day10-London?

hi crazy - the reason I'm saying no to Cornwall is demonstrated by your draft itinerary - you just don't have time!

I think I might tweek it by dropping a night in Bath and adding it to Devon [far more things for the kids in Devon then there are in Bath] or alternatively get to London a day later, but otherwise, much better!

So many moving parts but just a few broad suggestions/affirmations from doing travel with kids in many of these areas:
1. Always more Paris (this should always be a guiding principle for all travellers!)
2. Florence/Salzburg/Venice are great with kids because they are compact for walking and have interesting visuals plus day trips.
3. Many big cities are not as interesting to kids (Milan, Munich, Berlin)
4. A day or half day at a playground or local amusement park can be a life saver for the sanity of you and kids. A small playground along the banks of the river in Salzburg and a fun little regional amusement park in Scotland saved us.
5. Train, train, train, train, train, train, train, train.
6. Carry less, wash more. Literally, you need about two pairs of pants, two pair of socks, four underwear, four shirts and a rain jacket.
7. Fewer stops, more daytrips. The more kids can "go home" to the same place, the better.
8. Gelato. Do your research!

Like the way Roam Europe thinks! Although I'd go with a few more socks.

Thanks annhigg...done! Just found out though that Thomas land is booked out on the 11th! So no idea how we are going to manage it! Typical!
I'll take the night off London as hubby wants a full day in bath. For the kids we will do the hop on hop off bus tour

Romeeurope - great suggestions - yes we plan on taking little and buying while over there as it is soooo much cheaper then aus prices! We are planning two cases and a hand luggage case and an empty backpackers backpack for the things along the way.

We are going to train but driving will still be our main mode of transport.

So week one and two are planned ... Except for Thomas land .... Thanks everyone!

Ok so Thomas Land looks like a day trip from London and we wont stay a night. They can't get us into the 11th and we will take everyones advice about not going on the 10th when we arrive. So .... would you still agree if we had 7days to travel you would do the above . .so Windsor day1 and 2 then head off to Cardiff for 2 days then 2 days Bath and 2 days Devon and a night at Sailsbury.

AGAIN THANK YOU EVERYONE!

I think this looks reasonable. Will throw in one wrench. I'm not wild about Cardiff and as a personal preference when on a car trip I prefer to stay in the country. As you are not now coming down from Thomas, you might swap Cardiff for the Cotswolds or just above there, in or near Warwick Castle, given castles are high on your list.

Warwick Castle is a full-scale production and for contrast, the ruins of Kenilworth Castle are nearby.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Castles_in_Warwickshire

You could then drive down through the Cotswolds with time to stop in a few of the villages before heading to Bath. They will certainly meet your quaint village desire--not making fun, I love a day or two or more in the Cotswolds.

Near Bath is Longleat, the massive pile of the Marquess of Bath, with what I'm told is a wonderful wild animal park.

So .... would you still agree if we had 7days to travel you would do the above . .so Windsor day1 and 2 then head off to Cardiff for 2 days then 2 days Bath and 2 days Devon and a night at Sailsbury?

no, crazy, i would do Windsor - salisbury - Devon - Cardiff - Bath.

Thanks Annhig, We are going to follow your advice and plan on doing Windsor for a night and Salisbury for a night Devon for 2 nights Cardiff for 2 nights and then Bath for 2 days then London for the rest of the week(5/6nights).

Thanks again for all your help.

Next on the agenda is the drive from Paris to Barcelona. I am thinking 2nights in Sarlet and then 2 nights somewhere more South before we get into Barcelona.

Any suggestions or places to stay for this part of the journey?

hi Cathinjoetown . .just saw your post! That does look great! and yes castles are high on our list . .basically the only resin of driving out of London

Just a reminder - have you checked to see if your car will have air conditioning?
We have sweltered in the UK in summer when driving!

yep . . .we will have a BMW X5 . .it has aircon . .but thanks for the heads up!

plan on doing Windsor for a night and Salisbury for a night Devon for 2 nights Cardiff for 2 nights and then Bath for 2 days then London for the rest of the week(5/6nights).>>

crazy - it's a shame that you're going to have two "one night stands" in a row, but otherwise the itinerary looks fine.

hope you have a great time.

Hey Annhig . . .what do you know about Salcombe and Warickshire/Warick castle . . .we are thinking of going there instead of Cardiff??? What do you think???

STARTED A NEW THREAD WITH THE ADDED CHANGES!