Well I am finally getting around to doing my trip report. I came back to work on 10/17th to a huge pile of work and to a major job crisis, but for now at least the pile on my desk is down to a manageable size.
This report will not list the major sites to see and not even that many restaurant reviews, this report is to warn others thinking about going on a trip with a group of people to rethink your plans, or at least take some precautionary steps before you leave to ensure that your trip will not be a trip from hell. Actually, this trip had a few really good days, but unfortunately more bad days, but how bad can Rome and the Amalfi Coast really be.
A little background first: This was my 6th trip to Italy and my 6th time in my favorite city in the world Roma! My 5 travel companions had never been to Italy, well one woman had been in college, many moons ago and obviously did not remember one single thing about it. Two of the women I have known since high school (D & J), the other three (M, P and N) are neighbors of J and I did not know them prior to this trip. We are all the same age – 50 somethings.
In the early planning stages of this trip, the things I really stressed to this group (which incidentally changed characters a few times before we left) was that everyone really needed to be in fairly good physical shape, at least fit enough to carry their own luggage, be able to walk up stairs, handle walking on cobblestones and probably be able to climb up some moderate size hills – think Positano and Capri.
The other major point I wanted to make was that I would be more than willing to give them lots of suggestions – (via Fodors recommendations – sure hope they aren’t reading this - but if they didn’t during the planning of this trip, I doubt seriously that they are reading this now, lol), help with directions and recommendations for restaurants, etc., but I would in no way be their tour guide. I emphasized the importance of doing their own research and reading so they could decide what was really important to them in terms of where they wanted to go and what they wanted to see. In other words, this is your trip and you need to plan it.
During the next six months my decision to organize this trip would be questioned by me many times. After many phone calls and emails, an itinerary was finally agreed to. We would fly into Rome, stay there for four days with one day trip to Florence and then take the train to Naples and on to Sorrento as our base for 8 days. We would do day trips down the coast to Positano, Amalfi and Ravello and over to Capri and maybe Ischia, Pompeii and a day in Naples. Everyone agreed.
In the meantime I got the opportunity to go to Rome for 8 days in March and was really pleased to be able to secure for the group, 3 apts. in the same building, just off Campo dei Fiori for a great price. I also was finally able to meet my friend SeaUrchin and her friend S. for a few days, one of which we spent in Sorrento. In Sorrento I was fortunate enough to stop into the Hotel Lorelei on their opening day of the season and book us 3 seaview rooms. I had always wanted to stay at the Lorelei and I just knew the group would love it there.
I was very excited to tell the group the good news. While I was gone they decide to call the group the Divas. So, almost immediately the red flags started going up. Two of the Divas told me they had a bad fear of heights so the planned bus trips down the AC would be out of the question. One Diva revealed she gets seasick very easily and so would not be able to go to Capri or Ischia.
In June, D fell and injured her back and was in PT, her doc said she should be fine by the end of Sept. though. One other Diva had knee surgery in April which was still causing her some problems and another Diva had leg and feet problems, which she had failed to mention, which she was now concerned about. By July J was suffering from plantars faceitis (sp).
In August, foot/leg problem Diva P and now “torn miniscus” Diva N decided they would cancel their apt. in Rome for two days and take the train to Venice instead. I tried to explain that by the time they spent almost a day traveling there and back to Rome for our departure to Sorrento that they really would not have much time to spend in Venice, plus they would need to find a hotel and that might not be so easy at the last minute. Well, they found out the apt. in Rome would not rent to them for just two days so they decided not to go to Venice.
I had booked a Scavi tour for them, after telling them how great it was and how much I had enjoyed taking the tour. They all agreed – Well after waiting almost a month, I finally got the confirmation back. When I gave them the good news, two of them asked if there would be any bones, or graves or anything morbid about it and if it was in close quarters and underground – duh!!! yes. Well I had to cancel their reservation.
Now I am really having concerns about this whole trip.
We had our pre-trip dinner about a week before we left and everyone seemed so excited and so enthusiastic and everyone assured me that their physical problems all seemed to be under control and would not be a problem, so for the first time in months, I thought this is going to be ok.
The very next Monday I get an email from Diva P&N saying that they just thought there was too many stairs for them to climb to the apt. in Rome and they wanted me to cancel theirs and they would find something else, close to where we were. I’m thinking there is no way in h--- they are going to find something near the Campo di Fiori one week before we are to leave! But they did, amazing. Just around the corner from ours on the little side street between the Campo and Piazza Farnese. I told them they would have to contact RealRome and cancel their apt. themselves. Luckily, there was no problem and no penalty charge.
Now we are 3 days to lift off when I get an email from D saying that she is having second thoughts about going (she and I were sharing apt. and hotel room). Her back was acting up again, she was totally freaking out about her debit card not working in Italy – apparently some guy at her bank told her that he would never travel with just a debit card (she doesn’t have a credit card!!! Who doesn’t have a credit card??) and that debit cards get eaten or stolen and advised her to get euro travellers checks instead of using her debit card. I’m now trying to take deep breaths – The next day she emailed that she really thought she would not go – I emailed back that she would have to pay her ½ of the apt. and hotel room, but that I would totally understand if she didn’t’ go. I’m thinking that maybe this is a blessing in disguise! She emailed back immediately saying that she was going. She then emailed back later that day saying that she had gone to the money exchange and was taking her total trip budget in euro cash! She actually carried around $3,000 e in her money belt for the whole trip. She’s now calling me, talking non-stop about all her fears, doubts and paranoia about being robbed and worse. By this time I’m saying to myself, ok, we’ve been friends for years, BUT how much time have I actually spent with her over the last 20+ yrs – a few “girls weekends” 2-3x a yr. get togethers for dinner?? How well do I really know her now. Gulp.
Ok, I know I am going on and on about the dynamics of this group and we haven’t even left yet, but I’m hoping maybe this may be a warning to some of you who may be contemplating a similar situation.
Well, at my suggestion, we are on our way to the Vancouver airport in our stretch limo ($17 each) sipping Prosecco which I had been saving for a special occasion and after a little toast to the trip, I ask them if they had one thing to pick that they really wanted to do or see on this trip, what would it be. Dead total silence. The Divas are now looking from one to the other and finally J says, I really want to see the Sistine Chapel and I think, TG! then another chimes in – I want to shop!! The other Divas are still thinking about it. I’m now thinking to myself – I am so going to have to ditch the Divas as soon as we get to Rome.
We have a little light dinner at the airport and amazingly no great fuss when the bill came – more on that later. British Air was actually very good. First time for me as I usually fly Delta out of Seattle. I was a little worried about the 13 lb carryon limit, but I didn’t see anyone checking on that and I KNOW some of the Divas were way over as were most of the carryons I was seeing being shoved into the overheads. I think there is more legroom in coach and the in-seat entertainment is nice. Even the food wasn’t too bad and the FAs were just great – friendly, helpful and the free wine doesn’t hurt.
We finally are in Roma! The limo that I have arranged is there to pick us up – two of the Divas have apparently arranged for help de-boarding and are met with two wheelchairs being pushed by two incredibly handsome young men. The two Divas are very embarrassed and couldn’t stop giggling all the way to the limo. I think someone got pictures to blackmail them with no doubt. Our limo driver was a hoot and even pinched my cheek when I got out of the limo – no – I know what you’re thinking - the cheek on my face!! Our apts were a short walk up Via Cappellari from the Campo dei Fiori, through a huge wooden door which opened into a tiny, charming little courtyard and up one very steep flight of marble stairs. The apts are nice. Pretty basic, but very adequate for our needs. Mine even had a piano and floor to ceiling window with a tiny little iron balcony and a clothes line. It’s now 11:00 p.m, but everyone is hungry and wanting to see the Campo, so we walk around a little and then settle on Da Baffetto 2 for some pizza and vino. I couldn’t believe it’s now 11:45 and I’m sitting in Rome eating pizza. I’m very optimistic that this trip is going to be great after all. Back to the apt. I decide on the pull out couch and D gets the bedroom upstairs. After D is asleep and snoring upstairs, I’m leaning out the window watching the activity in the tiny street below and all the young people who are spilling out of the Campo and enjoying a Friday night with their friends and I’m breathing in that special soft Roman air and feeling like I am somehow where I was meant to be. It’s been worth the effort to get here and I am happy.
Little did I know what was to come – more later as I can,


Wow. This is better than the Da Vinci Code! Looking forward to hearing more.
Oh goody....more more!!
HI, Barb!

As for "group dynamics", this sounds more like "hearding cats" to me!
More, please! You have a great way of putting the reader next to you. I feel like I'm in Rome right now!
OMG...don't know if I'll be able to read the conclusion of this painful story. It just goes to show that the old saying, "He who travels best, travels alone" (or something like that) was probably stuck in Italy with the Divas!
Don't think me rude, but why in HELL would you even consider organizing something like this????
I shall follow your tale (which I suspect will be one of woe...) with great interest.
Almost every trip report and/or discussion about group travel that I have read on this board has been a horror story.
Question: Do only unhappy group travellers post trip reports or are all group travellers unhappy?
Barb, More, more, more....
Gosh - your story is bringing back so many painful memories of my last European trip. Don't get me started, I can probably kvetch for days about the travel companion from hell.
I am really enjoying your trip report and have complete sympathy - on a daily basis I fantasized about ditching my travel companion and going it alone.
And to think I've been given a hard time about traveling to Europe alone a few times in the past!
Barb,
It sounds like this was painful but I'm afraid your pain was my gain.
You do have a wonderful way of telling a story. Glad you had that lovely moment on your balcony on your first night!
kakalena
Barb, hope you had some wonderful moments to more than compensate for the Divas. I also planned a trip with a high school friend and Never Again! Solo works for me.
Please continue.
Judy
Thanks for the understanding responses. I hope phyllis_stein reads this. I think eliztrav really summed it up - clinging vine, no curiosity, no plan, none of your planning being appreciated and no-one listening to you once you are there. I actually had a really bad feeling about this trip about 3 months into the planning, but I kept trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, and I was trying to be very optimistic. I have to be really honest and take some of the responsibility here too, it was an opportunity for me to share expenses for accommodations, limos, etc., and therefore be a relatively inexpensive trip. Now I know better - I will never compromise my travel happiness for a cheap room. I'll try to get the next installment done this afternoon between work projects.
More! More!
Keep talking keep talking.
It makes we who love solo travel feel validated, and it makes we who travel with friends and family wake up to what should be avoided.
Yours is definitely a case of
no good deed goes unpunished.
I have a friend who was going with friends and family on a trip to London, she'd been there before, they had not. She told everyone that she was delighted they would all be there at the same time, and she'd be happy to offer suggestions. Most dinners were planned as a group. But, during the day, she was organizing her time as she saw fit, and while anyone was free to join her in any activity, they would be joining her under their own steam. Each room in the hotel was reserved separately by the people who would be staying in the room. Once there, if my friend chose to change her day's schedule, or not stay for the entire tour of the museum, or skip lunch that day, she made it clear from the beginning she would not be responsible for the others' getting back to the hotel, or their going on to the next activity.
Barb, yours was more difficult due to the apartment, and to the travel from one place to another.
There's always next time!
post more!!! im sooo intrigued so far.
This is hilarious! Only because I have had some similar experiences. Like..the traveling companion who decides she needs to have a sit-down meal 12 minutes before the train to Naples leaves on a track that we have yet to identify!
>Two of the women I have known since high school (D & J), the other three (M, P and N) are neighbors of J and I did not know them prior to this trip.<


UH, OH.
Looking forward to more of this very interesting report, Barb.
Barb, this is shaping up to be a really good, if painful, yarn! Can't wait to read the rest!
Elaine - your friend's plan is EXACTLY what I will do if and when I ever decide to travel with companion(s) again. Live and learn.
Sorry for the typo
that was "herding cats" not "hearding"
Barb, I know you don't want to hear it, but here it is: what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Now you are going to say, NUTS to being stronger!!!!
Looking at your itinerary, I thought: seems simple enough, two 'home bases' and day trips therefrom. What could go wrong? (I have the feeling you're about to tell us...)
I'm wondering if you were feeling a little too responsible. If you weren't going to be their tour guide, it wasn't up to you to worry if people couldn't, or wouldn't, participate in planned activities (Amalfi coast, Scavi tour) or if they were about to embark on impractical plans (shorten apt rental, mini-trip to Venice). Yet it seems you did, and not surprisingly it was a heavy load to carry.
You can lead the horses to Rome, but you can't make them drink the water....or even the cappuccino....
Cheer up, we're all going to enjoy the tale.
This is better than Desperate Housewives - eagerly await the next installment!
Hi Barb, I knew there was a good reason you didn't meet me for dinner, and I have a feeling I'll soon know the details! Makes me so glad I went by myself. As soon as you said you had never met three of the group before, I had a feeling you were in for trouble...Looking forward to more!
Barb, just reading your report has me counting my blessings. I've travelled to France alone, with my husband, with our best friends(a couple) and with my sisters, daughter and three of her friends and had fantastic trips every time. Each was a different style of journey but enjoyable all the same. You have a very descriptive writing style, I can picture each of the Divas. Waiting to hear more. Deborah
Barb,
Many kudos to you for giving it your all to plan this trip.
After 6 successful group trips with about 15-20 people, I do know what you do go through.
However, I think there is only way to do group trips: one person really needs to be in charge ( as I am, what I says goes or they don't go) otherwise it is very difficult.
I can SO appreciate that you did not want to play tour guide; it is ALOT of work.
Fortunately I make the time( and have the time) to plan the trips A-Z with most of the responsibility on my shoulders. Knock every piece of wood in my house, that the trips are great and we all have a good time; but I do know this is very rare.
You should be congratulated on your a+ efforts!!!!!
"Two of the Divas told me they had a bad fear of heights so the planned bus trips down the AC would be out of the question. One Diva revealed she gets seasick very easily and so would not be able to go to Capri or Ischia."
OK, I would have been outta there at that point. This group had all the warning signs of being VERY High Maintenance. But your nightmare trip is our gain -- can't wait to hear the gory details!
"It's better to be alone than to wish you were."
Barb- Quite honestly you sound like a lot of fun. My comment is I think you should look around and try to make some new friends... people you have more in common with. There's loads of women who are independent, self-sufficient, interested, and interesting (but this group sure ain't them -LOL).
More, more! I can't wait!
Suze--i wish i could find ladies like that! I generally travel solo. Only took two trips with other folks--took my mother to europe in august and had a BALL--it was her first trip there. Mom's make good travel companions!! The other time was a 4 day trip to New Orleans with a girl I had known for about 17 years (most of my life, considerin we're both 21). I LOVED nola, but hated travelling with her--we didn't speak for months after returning home.
ALL she wanted to do was party. I honestly couldn't care less about "partying". I'm not into the frat house scene, which is what most of the bars on Bourbon are all about..so I told her to just go at it alone, and I'd be at this nice jazz club I found. She ended up just coming with me to the jazz club--i can't understand why people can't get a sense of independance!
I did end up going to a couple of places she wanted to go to, so we wouldn't argue too much. When it really wasn't my scene, I left. We both love Karaoke, so we had a lot of fun at this Karaoke bar and spent a lot of time there sinc it's something we both enjoyed.
OOOOHHHH MYYYYY....lol I'm sitting here feeling a bit guilty at enjoying the read so much while feeling your pain! I've learned to value good travel companions....they are a RARE breed! Recipe: some common interests, a sense of humor, a sense of independence, flexibility/adaptability (something will ALWAYS fo wrong!), ...
Eek - well at least you are back in one piece (right??)!
Looking forward to more... don't leave us hanging much longer, lol!
So, it’s a new day, the sun is shining, I had a good night sleep thanks to Ambian and I’m raring to go. We had decided to meet for cappuccinos on the Campo at 9:00 to see what everyone wanted to do for the day. Because D had the bedroom upstairs and the closet and drawers were up there too, while I was in the shower, D had taken it upon herself to completely fill the whole closet and most of the drawers with her stuff, leaving me two small drawers and 2 hangers. I also noticed she had placed all her toiletries onto two of the three small shelves in the bathroom. Oh, well, I don’t care, not worth worrying about, we’ll work it out. I think I can temporarily just put my folded stuff on the closed piano downstairs - this became my storage space for the entire stay at the apt. My coat and a few hanging things were draped over chairs.
At this juncture it may be important to this report to tell you that I consider myself a traveller, not a tourist. Now I know, no one is going to mistake me for Italian, as hard as I try, but I do try to blend in as much as I can. I have learned the customs, I am not loud, I am polite and I really try my hardest to communicate with my very limited Italian, usually sneaking peaks at my menu translator, or phrase book. The hardest thing for me is to wipe that silly grin off my face which seems to be a permanent thing, just because I’m so darn happy to be there.
So.. it is decided that the Divas will walk with me to get my cell phone charged up with more euros/time and then we will walk over to Piazza Navona, the Pantheon, taking our time. I would show them the nearest Bankcomats and also where the nearest taxi stands are located and point them in the direction of Largo Argentina for buses and trams.
The only Diva who has not made it to the café is now making her way through the crowd to where we are – it was almost like the crowd parted and a ray of light was beamed down from above right on to her – there she was in her black capris, with scenes of Paris in bright orange printed on them, she had on a bright orange t-shirt to match the Eiffel Towers on her capris and a neon lime green jacket, which matched her neon lime green messanger bag onto which was affixed a huge sticker that said “Canada” in red and white. She wore a hat, which was very similar to my late partner’s fishing hat, without the flies. Oh, and white tennis shoes with little socks trimmed in, yes, orange. She was apologetic for being late, but her enthusiasm made me overlook her lovely outfit. So off we went, Mama duck with her ducklings following. Along the way, they would ask what every single building was, the history of that particular building, what that tree is, why are there so many different type of policemen, complaining about the graffiti, the crowds, the cobblestones and were in absolute fear for their lives when they saw their first major street crossing. I said, ok, let’s go, one hung behind, decided to go, then got scared, stopped and then ran back to the curb. Now, she is on one side of the street and we are all on the other side of the street. She won’t budge. Eiffel Tower Capri pants yells in her loudest voice, come on, it’s ok. Bless her heart, she runs back over and grabs Ms. Scared to Death and hauls her back over to our side. By this time, a crowd has gathered to watch this daring rescue. I will come to really like Eiffel Tower Diva in the end.
Chuckle.

Could you tell us what the worst disaster is ahead of time? I don't think that I can wait that long.
I learned not to invite friends along for travel. The first time after a bad break up with my ex, a friend and I headed to Jamaica and all my friend wanted to do was sleep in!!! I didn't let that hold me back and did my own thing-she came along after that.

On a trip to NY with 3 other friends, all they wanted to do was shop and sleep in. (Granted, NY is a great place to shop BUT we live in CA where we have practically the same stores!).We had planned to go to Boston for the day and the day before, no one wanted to go. I bought a ticket and took the train from NY-Boston by myself. That was definitely the highlight of my trip. I got to do exactly what I wanted. When I returned to the hotel later that evening, they all said they wished they would have gone because they didn't do anything that day.
I have great friends that I have known for years and a sister I get along with very well, however, the only person I will travel with is my husband or alone.
I'm curious to see if there was problems when it came to splitting the tab for meals. This has to be one of the biggest problems when I occasionally go out with other couples. There's always someone who orders the menu and then doesn't put enough money to cover the cost, tax, or tip!
Looking forward to the rest of the drama!!!!
PS-When they named themselves the "Divas" you should have had an idea what you were getting into
I'm loving this trip report - I can hardly wait for future episodes!
Kudos to you, Barb, for persevering through your travel travails with the Divas.
Dear God...this sounds like a trip with my
inlaws....if they were to ever brave leaving their hometown. Can't wait to hear the rest!!!
Love the trip report so far! Anxiously awaiting Part II - can't wait to find out what happens next!
I really hate to say this, but this is very entertaining. That sounds terrible, but you just have a wonderfully descriptive way with words that makes reading this so interesting. Please - more!
Fortunately, I like traveling both solo and with others, but am picky with who I travel with. The worse vacation I had was a week in a small condo with a family with 2 teenagers - and I was single. YIKES! Never in my life have I gone out at 9PM to see a movie while on vacation, but I did that time just to escape the tension and all that teen angst. UGH! Never again!
Please, continue!
More!!!!
Ms Eiffel Tower Diva - I love it
Barb, I remember your wonderful report from Rome in March (same time the TN Trio of Terror was there)so I'm hoping you at least had some nice alone time. You sound like such a nice person so I'm afraid others take advantage of you. Can't wait to hear more!
Barb
If you dare consider non-solo travel again. . . I think any number of Fodorites would be much better companions on your next Roman holiday. And we've barely left the hotel. . .
waiting to hear all the gory details
Hi Barb, I have been waiting for your trip report. Oh good grief, I could see the handwriting on the wall when you started describing the situation before you even left for Italy. I owe you an apology as I am sitting here laughing so hard, but remember I am laughing with you not at you.
OK, on to the next part of this trip with The Divas. I know we can all hardly wait!!
Barb: What a way for you to learn the "travel alone" lesson. Travel only with bosom friends you've known for a long, long time and never with mere acquaintances. I broke this rule once, went to London with a dear friend who invited three other women I did not know. Two of them were fine but the third one was not someone I wanted to break bread with. Suffice it to say, that I left London two days later and meandered around Europe using my Eurailpass, by myself. I still can remember the feeling of liberation and total freedom. My friend and her friends stayed in London. Unfortunately our friendship dissolved over this incident.
Wonderful story so far...My DH and I would love to travel with a couple of friends, but oh, after reading this I wonder....
(I'll have to pull up Maitai Tom's report if the above gets really serious). Or maybe I'll print out both that thread and this one and make it required reading for any potential travel partners!
Having just returned from a week in Italy with a friend (well, we were friends before we left) that I thought I'd thoroughly vetted for travel fitness, I'm really enjoying your report, Barb.
Diva EF has a certain ring to it, don't you think?
Chuckling over the first two installments and waiting for the rest!
Lee Ann
Barb, Wonderful (for us but not for you)
Reminds me of the line from my favorite Glenda Jackson film, "Sunday, bloody, Sunday:
Some times nothing is better than something! write on!!
Treesa, even traveling with dear friends of long-standing is no guarantee. You don't know someone very very well until you travel with them.
We simply don't usually spend 24-7 with even our dearest friends and family, and all sorts of habits and quirks (our own as well) rise to the surface. What is mildly irritating on a once-in-a-while basis can inspire murderous thoughts while traveling, especially when travel time is long-planned, expensive, and otherwise precious.
My wise daddy once said to me," son, pick your life partner wisely, and your travel companions even more so".
Well, Barb, you are such a descriptive writer, I am glad we got along so well, lol. I am sorry I couldn't meet up with you again on this trip. Oh well, next September!!
And people ask me if I was scared and how courageous I am to travel alone!!! What you did took real courage...or optimism!
You really make me love my past two weeks through Europe!!!
Thanks all for the kind support. I am trying to figure out how to condense some of this, but it's hard - hope I don't bore some of you. Maybe I should mention before I go on, we are all still speaking - in fact I just got an email from D saying that they were all really grateful for my help and how it was a trip of a lifetime!! Oh no, now I am feeling a little guilty for having those murderous thoughts and telling the whole Fodors world about them. NOT!!
No, No , NO, and NO!!!!!!
Please do not condense - we want all of the gory details - even interested in the particular shade of orange Ms ETD was wearing. Your writing styleis too perfect please just keep going
Barb,
Love it just the way it is being told...don't condense anything!
Well, Barb, this a great laugh...for us, at least. Eiffel Tower Diva with Canadian flag. Too funny! Are we allowed to assess before we hear the ending? Well, here goes. You are too traveled and saavy for the group so for this to work you have to be the leader/guide as tripgirl said and does.
One of the reasons for the success of Cheleo's trip in Spain (great report!) was she was basically the guide/planner, and G was the driver who spoke Spanish and they negociated, but.. we know who was running the show, and someone has got to do it.
Ok, enough of my analysis and on with the show. We know this will get better/worse! You tell a great story!
Please, please, please, don't condense!! Just continue to break it up in paragraphs, that's all.

I have the feeling it's going to get "better"
Oh Barb!!
I, too, was afraid for you when you mentioned the travel companions you didn't know in advance. I had the same experience years ago on a trip to France.
My two good friends and excellent travel companions + one travel companion from hell! Something tells me I am going to be reading all about her once again as you continue with your report.
It seems like some of us solo travelers really should link up and do a trip together - after careful discussion and planning of course!
Please go on...
Barb...I'm dying...gotta know what happens next...this reminds me so much of my former in-laws!
Barb, I love your report. Oh does it ring true! I went to Italy in June with four family members - you can check out my trip report on this forum for more details. On the whole it was wonderful - but there were moments...
For example, no one gave me any input before the trip, but objected to all the museums and churches once we were in Rome, Florence and Venice. It was a sensitive situation because we are family and because they considered me the expert.
I truely love traveling alone too and am very sure that my future trips will be solo.
Keep the report coming - it's great.
Yep, even going with a very close friend can be a disaster. Many, many years ago, I went to Greece with my BIL to take my late sister's ashes there (we were not related by blood, but fostered; I'm not Greek). She had been gone for 5 years so we weren't in the throes of serious mourning. He and I had been the very best of friends for 17 years, and had spent lots of time together, while S was alive, and after, too. He often stayed at our house, and we at his.
We have only spoken once in the ensuing 17 years, and that was some years later when I called him to apologize for my part in the debacle. Greece was the end of our friendship. We didn't even speak to one another on the plane home.
On a more cheery note: Barb, I love your report and can't wait to read more. I am sorry for your pain, but we are really have a great time reading about it. ;-(
Barb, I agree, now that you have us truly hooked, you can't possibly condense! We don't care how long it is, we want, as someone said, all the gory details! I have to go out now but will be checking in later hoping to see more...
I agree, The more details the better, we want the report to be long and drawn out rather than rushed. We might complain about the time it takes to get the full report but that’s just because we love it when a wonderful writer has an ‘interesting trip’. You are certainly falling into that category.

You posted less than 6 hours ago and already have 60+ posts, that in inself should tell you how much we are appreiciating it.
Just think how therapeutic getting it all off your chest will be, saves on the psychotherapy costs
Barb,
This is a great story and eye-opener for me. I am thinking about planning a trip for some friends but this is making me take a long look at that commitment. I can't wait to hear the rest.
I cannot wait to hear more about Eiffel Tower Diva!
Barb, this is so entertaining, thank you SO much
OH MY GOSH...Your quote here made me REALLY wish I was in that apt with you:
"I’m leaning out the window watching the activity in the tiny street below and all the young people who are spilling out of the Campo and enjoying a Friday night with their friends and I’m breathing in that special soft Roman air and feeling like I am somehow where I was meant to be. It’s been worth the effort to get here and I am happy."
Brings back very fond memories...
By about 10:30 a.m. N (Eiffel Tower Diva) and P (Ms. Scared to Death) are tired. They want to know about a hop on, hop off bus tour like they took in London a few years back. I told them that I had never taken it, but it was my understanding that it wasn’t that great, wasn’t that cheap and I really didn’t recommend it, but that I didn’t know much about it. They gave me this “look”, which was very similar to the look my teenagers would give me right before they would say “whatever”. They insisted they wanted to try it and I said great, have a good time. As the rest of us are standing there trying to come to some kind of decision about where we (I) would go next, I see N waiving like crazy trying to hail down a taxi. I had told them all earlier that it is next to impossible to hail a taxi on a busy street and that they should try to find a taxi stand. Oh well, they are big girls – off we go to the Jewish Ghetto to my fav little place for lunch – Sora Margherita.
As usual I have the wonderful carciofi, which is done to perfection. The menu is in Italian and is not much more than a handwritten sheet of paper. The food here is divine and very authentic. Not much English is spoken here either. The Divas are now just staring at the menu and not saying much. M looks up and says “How in the world are we supposed to understand this!” I ask them if they had had a chance to look at the sample menus that I had emailed to everyone months ago with the suggestion that they might want to familiarize themselves with some of the Italian words for food and cooking methods and perhaps learn what certain food items were in Italian. No, I guess they didn’t have time. I ask if they need any help. One Diva pointed to what the next table was eating – I ask the waitress what it is and they all decide on that. I order for them. They are quite upset because there is no butter for their bread and M is trying to get the waitress’ attention by waving her arms around - she did get the attention of most of the small restaurant and I think the waitress was purposely ignoring her and I don’t blame her. They are still grumbling about the menu. They admit the food is not bad, just not like the spaghetti they get at home. Hmmmm
When the bill comes I think we should split it, even though my meal was a little different than theirs and I did have vino (for my sanity) and they had dessert, it basically came out the same. No. One Diva whips out her handy dandy little calculator and figures it out down to the euro penny. This is a clue of things to come. Mind you this whole discussion is not done quietly, but between talking pretty loud and lots of giggles. I hope they don’t remember this group and hold it against me the next time I eat here.
We walk over to Trastevere and I show them where I had stayed my last two visits – they say it really looks like a rather depressed area to them, but do enjoy seeing Santa Maria in Trastevere. We stop by Ice Blue for gelato, which I think is the highlight of their day. Back to the Campo – Divas go back to the apt. and I go in search of the restaurant where I will meet SusanP tonight for dinner. I also stop by the cheese shop on the Campo and pick up a few provisions for the apt. For some reason, I can’t find the restaurant – I really need a new map I think. When I get back to the apt. I try calling the restaurant to see if I can get directions – no answer.
At 5:00 the Divas all meet to decide about dinner. I told them about SusanP and the great restaurant where I am meeting her. I now learn that three of the Divas really can’t eat any later than 5:30 or 6:00 otherwise they get headaches or can’t sleep if they eat any later than that!! I try to gently remind them that most Italian eateries do not even open until 7:00 or 7:30. They are also VERY skeptical about not having any choice on what they eat – “eww what if they have squid or octopus or some other revolting thing”. I try calling Ristorante Der Pallaro again and the person who answers does not speak English, I ask if someone there speaks a little English and can give me directions, unfortunately not. By now the Divas are in total chaos trying to decide what to do about dinner. One woman is almost in tears because if she doesn’t eat something really soon, she is going to have a melt down. Finally, it is decided that I will go try to find Der Pallaro one more time. I know it’s not far from the Campo. D wants to come with me, I vant to be alone, so I tell them I’ll be right back.
I have to say, it’s deep breath time. As I walk along I ask myself why am I doing this. I think maybe I need to step back from them for awhile and I am really looking forward to my dinner, hopefully alone with SusanP, a Fodorite, one of us!!
This is GREAT travel writing. Fodors should pay you for it. I hope it's not long before the next installment.
oopsy
By now I am really worried. I am planning a solo trip next year but I have friends trying to meet up with me once in a while. I may just meet one friend who is already planning to join me in Venice. I’ll make sure I take a breather and try to meet a Fodorite, one of us!! Too funny.
Oh my dear, my dear. LOL If I didn't know better I would say you were making up Ms. Eiffle Tower's outfit...you have much courage. I traveled to Paris and London with my brother and SIL a few years ago and paid for my own room, and oh I was sooooooo glad. I love them dearly, but at the end of the day to go back to the quiet of my own room, my own bathroom, have my own closet, read a book, what ever..it was heaven, kept me, and I'm sure them also, sane and they can still come for Christmas.
I have a friend that I've traveled with for many years, usually to Hawaii and we really do well together. I'm 10 years older than she so "tis good to be the queen". She usually gets up earlier than I in the morning so she lights a candel, puts Adrea Bocelli "Romanza" on the CD player and starts the coffee pot. Works for me!!!!!! I am so very eagerly waiting for the next installment.
Well, I still can’t find it and so I reluctantly walk back to the apt. Eiffel Tower and Scared to Death and M have gone out to get panini for dinner and D J & I decide to just go around the corner to Da Giovanni to eat. I’m feeling bad about SusanP, but I know as a solo traveller, she is probably used to eating alone and she doesn’t know how lucky she is to be eating alone, ha. I order stuffed zuccini blossoms, huge slices of grilled porcini and veal with limone and a mezzo litre vino rosso della casa. I’m feeling like Rachael Rae and even saying yummo!! It is very good. D and J have lasagna I think. It’s a lovely night, the Piazza Farnese is alive - it’s Saturday night. Muscians are playing over by the Statue and the events of the day are starting to fade from my memory. For just a moment I imagine I am sitting here with a handsome, young Italian man, who is holding my hand and looking into my eyes and telling me how much he is in love with me. I am jolted back to reality with D&J complaining how long it is taking the rather rude waiter to bring our bill. When it comes, D & J are shocked to see a 4.60 charge on it for bread – they say the bread was awful, although they ate it. I say, well it’s pretty much a standard charge here and that’s why they don’t need to rely on tips, although I told them I usually leave a small tip too. They are looking at me like I’m nuts. D only has a $50, J is questioning how much she was charged for the lasagna and I say, why don’t I pay it and you can figure out how much you owe and pay me in the morning at breakfast.
When we get back to the apt. D is now wound up. She is talking non-stop, she pours a glass of wine (I had bought a bottle earlier in the day) and then she’s off and running. For the next two hours, she talks, then she pours some wine, then she starts repeating things, then she finally staggers off to bed and I’m shocked. OMG. Who is this woman!
The next morning we are off for Florence. We had decided on this trip before we even got to Rome. P is not going, she’s not feeling well – panini didn’t sit well with her. D is hung over and not moving very fast. J and I seem to be the only ones really looking forward to Florence. Oh well, it’s sunny and warm, what a great way to start out the day.
With all the turmoil of the previous day, I realize I had not made our reservations for Accademia – oh well, how long can the line be on a Sunday in October. HA!
We manage, finally, to all get our tickets and we are waiting to see which binario we are on, oh, after explaining the whole Italian rail system to them. They really didn’t believe me when they didn’t see Florence on the board and I told them that our train’s final destination was Milan and it stopped in Florence. D and M aren’t moving fast and at the very last minute decide they need to visit the loo – just then the binario is posted and we have exactly 5 minutes to find our car and get on. J decides she will wait for D & M and for N and me to go ahead. I am worried – They have given me the tickets to hold for them!! As we climb aboard I’m looking down the platform and I finally see three middle aged women, who are basically gimps, trying to run and dodge people. We get to our seats with a sigh of relief. N tells me all about how they stood trying to hail a cab for 30 min. yesterday and finally gave up and tried to find a taxi stand. They hated the hop on hop off bus tour. They said it was way too much money and they never could understand that recorded tour guide, but they were tired, so they just rode around on it.
I see the snack cart coming – oh no, we are supposed to be in second class – doesn’t the snack cart only come to first class. The Divas are ordering coffee, happy as little kids with their cute little snacks and I am worried. Sure enough the stern looking conductor looks at our tickets and points to the door. Divas are outraged that we have to move. I’m rather embarrassed that I goofed up and that we are walking through car after car trying to find our seats. I am SO glad we are not hauling suitcases too. Just as we get settled again, the snack cart!! Divas are happy and getting tea and more snacks, but then when they figure out they have to pay, they are madly trying to hand him back their snacks. I’m sinking further and further into my seat. Even in second class there is not much loud talking. The Italians even though very expressive when they talk, do so in hushed tones when on trains and in restaurants. The Divas are by this time really whooping it up.
We made it to Florence, but the sky is starting to look rather gray and gloomy. With IRA’s helpful walking directions from the train station to Duomo and points beyond in hand we set out.
Hmmm. Barb, I may need to pop a bowl of popcorn and sit down and read it all at once. You had me at Eiffel Tower Diva. Makes my travel companions from hell pale in comparison.
I have been reading on this forum for a while now - and posted once or twice - but this is the best I have seen. I can't wait for the next episode - Barb this is wonderful!
Eiffel Tower Diva actually turned out to be the best sport and we crowned her the shopping guru. She was the one in the limo on the way to the airport, when asked what the one thing she wanted to do in Italy was and she said "shop" she wasn't kidding. Also, her entire trip wardrobe was varying shade of orange and lime green - I kid you not!
I'm off for home, so I will send the next installment tomorrow a.m. Ciao!
loooking forward to hearing about the good-natured citrus diva.
Keep going Barb. Great story-telling!
Also makes me really reconsider traveling with friends who are not as independent as me.
One friend sounds like one of your divas. She a little clingy and a bit inflexible (can't do anything on her own but claims to be independent, HA!). Since she broke up her BF, she now wants to travel with ME!
Except when traveling with my BF, I'm used to having my own space. This friend won't take this very well - esp since it means she has to pay more for a room. Sigh! I think your story is inspiring me to avoid traveling with this person.
Eagerly waiting for the next installment!
1. This is fascinating reading for any man. We were told women act like this when together. But of course we have never seen it in the flesh. And men don't travel in groups. Someone would have to be boss and that would never do.
2. Dear fellow Canadian Barb: We are a slightly priggish nation. Have you been a tad too ... supervisory... with these ladies, perhaps? Sometimes it is best just to let what happens happen, for good or ill.
3. Great reading though.
You know, your travel companions and my own travel companion from hell are eerily similar.
This is a great read - and yes, a MUST read for anyone contemplating a trip with someone with whom you've never traveled before.
Barb, this is SO funny! This account should really be published somewhere.
I've learned to always travel solo (and I'm quite a bit older than you). Way back, several trips with my teenage daughers weren't so great, so I decided then and there on the solo thing (after they left home!) At this point I have to sneak away for my European trips, as I have 2 women relatives who are dying to go with me. Fortunately, they both live in different states so I've been successful and haven't gotten caught.
Barb,
You will talking about this trip for EVER. Traveling with 1 husband is challenging enough, but 5 women!! I love the report.
Barb - Thank you! You have just made an important decision for me. Next summer neither my husband nor my daughter (my two usual travel companions) can go and I was thinking of asking an old friend who has indicated she is interested in travel. I have now just firmly decided I really do like solo travel and next summer will be a solo trip. so thanks for helping me make up my mind.
By the way, you sound like a real trooper.
When is the book coming out? I can't wait for tomorrow's installment. This is great writing, Barb.
I just traveled in Italy with 4 friends in the spring. There were many moments in the planning stage when I questioned my sanity, but the trip turned out amazingly well for the most part. All of us knew one another at some level; I had traveled before with each of them.
Our biggest problem was that we all are used to planning trips and making decisions. Impossible to assign one leader (and it would never have worked!)
Things that worked really well:
* Early in the planning stages I had everyone (except the one out-of towner) over for an Italian dinner and map reading session, and after much wine, created a chart of sorts w/ each person's name and various things/places people wanted to do/see (ranging from hiking to wine tasting to sculpting marble, for god's sake). We got a clear (well, considering the wine...) picture of our different visions of the trip, and what people could pair/team up with someone else to do, or do alone.
* We did divy (is that the spelling?) up things in the planning stages: two of us worked on the car rental, someone planned the Ischia hotel/ferries, someone made the reservations for Florence museums, etc etc. Lots of email and phone calls and dinners together beforehand.
* The five of us were not all together the whole time. We all had days or at least parts of days alone.
* Earplugs and eyeshades.
* Everyone always held their own tickets!
Finally, I rewarded myself for all my hard work with a few glorious solo days in Rome after everyone else had flown home (then I rewarded myself with 11 very nice days in Spain with a very nice young Spaniard, but that is another topic).
Diva Barb, I'm thinking it might be unfair of me to encourage you to continue in this vein, even if it is amusing (and it is) because overall I think you will be the worse for rehearsing and rehearsing your grievances, and my own entertainment is a poor recompense.
You did so much work, and yet...and yet....we none of us do any favours to our helpless, or at least helpless-seeming travel companions, when we fail to share, and share promptly, even the most trivial of our own problems and complaints. Yeah, your "D" Diva hogged the clothes closet, but unless you ask her next time to liberate a few hangars, you will be guilty of assuming, not proving, that this is the best that can be expected of her. Whereas if you bring the matter to her attention, you give her the chance to rise to the occasion and exclaim, "egad! You're right, you do need some hangars - here, let me make some room...."
I think our independence and competence can sometimes be our own worst enemies. Yes, it can be irritating to have someone obsess over splitting dinner bills down to the last Europenny. But how is it that we notice only that a task is done in an irritating fashion, and not that someone else took it off our hands, or in other words, that someone else is handling some of the administration we claim is a burden? So is it really that our companions are too dependent, or is it more that we relish control?
I think "Pogo" had it right as to who the enemy is. We have met the Control Diva, and She is Us.
What a fabulous read! And I know EXACTLY what you were going through - been there, done that too many times for sanity.

It could have been worse BTW - honest. I once organized a trip to the UK for thirteen of us. Nine women and four men! trust me -- it really could be worse
And D's money issue (!). One trip I took two work buddies (one guy semi-odd, the other one "normal") to Scotland for golf and sightseeing. We had several times had the usual discussion - re ATM card, Credtit cards, maybe a few TCs for back up, be sure to know your PINs, etc. Semi-odd missed the whole concept and took $4,000 all in TWENTY DOLLAR travelers checks . . . .
can't wait for your next installment - but you are definitely bringing back some painful memories
Noooooo! You can't leave us hanging like this. I'm gonna be up all night wondering about how this all turned out and if everyone is still friends.
.
Sure makes me glad I'm going on vacation alone next week
San (who has been called a diva once or twice herself)
Wow .. I can't wait for tomorrow ... sure looks like you had your hands full!!!
OMG ... I cannot stop laughing! I'm going to be thinking all night long of what you have to say tomorrow! Barb - you are just a wonderful (and very descriptive!) writer. Can't wait til I'm back in Rome in May ...
The heck with the book. I want to see the movie. Let's see, I'll start:
1, Eiffel Tower Diva: Robin Williams in drag.
2. Your turn
Such a marvelous report! You certainly deserve a medal, if not the Pulitzer!
I went to lunch just today with 14 other ladies. When the bill came (one bill for all), there was a big stink by several who wanted individual tickets for each person. "She had a drink and I didn't," type of stuff...ugh...
So unfortunately, I had to become what might be labeled the bill nazi. Get a grip. Divide it up and pay the man...
I feel your pain, Barb. But on the other hand, I'll have my cappuccino and biscotti ready for the next trip down memory lane (so hurry up!) LOL!!
Echoing others' sentiments .... the price paid for not having the courage to say, "No" is far, far more than any "single supplement" !
Enjoying your tale enormously.
Anyone who goes on a trip with others without discussing how expenses will be shared is asking for grief. I think this is probably the most divisive and touchy issue there is.
You are so right Marilyn. If someone only wants to eat crepes, yogurt, street roasted chicken, that's fine but if you want a nice sitdown restaurant or bistro meal, do it alone. That's what I did the one and only time I traveled with a friend.
OK this is what I really needed to push me into planning my first real (more than 2 days) trip alone!
Hello Marilyn and Mim, I agree with both of you. Finances have to be discussed.
I also think it is important that the style of travelling must be discussed. I have a good friend that I think the world of. She asked to go to Italy with me. She has never been there.
In talking, and thank goodness she is very upfront about her thinking, I discovered she does not like outdoor cafes. I love them. She does not like wine, only champagne. She wanted to spend "every moment" in museums and did not want to waste anytime just walking around as I like to do. And I love museums but I sure don't want to spend every moment in Italy inside museums. No thank you.
She told me that nothing drove her crazier than people that spent "to much time sitting over a meal". It turns out she likes to eat as quickly as possible and get the blazes out of the restaurant. I love relaxing over a meal.
She doesn't like coffee and doesn't like sitting around while people waste their time drinking it. Uhm, hand raised here. I really enjoy coffee especially in the morning and do not rush through it.
And so forth. Anyway one conversation and I knew that neither one of us would be happy travelling together. And we haven't. But I still consider her a wonderful friend. And we do have fun together for a day. But thank goodness she spelled out what she expected regarding a vacation together. I am not sure I would have thought to have found out all this information. It could have been a disaster.
Barb - love the story so far. I can somewhat feel your pain. Last summer my (almost) entire family went to Disney World as a 50th annv trip for my folks. 17 people - ages 10 - 69.
The only thing that kept us (me) sane was that we were in the same condo complex, but had 4 condos amongst us. That and there was only 1 "mandatory" attendance item - the anniversary dinner at the Polynesian Luau. Other than that - we had days designated for WDW & Univ. Studios, but just a " if you are going there, plan on doing it on Tuesday...." But even then , once we got to the park , we scattered and tried to keep in touch by walkie talkie.
I just got back from my Spain trip with a 'beach travel' friend of mine - her first trip to Europe. Took me until about day 5 of 9 to decide that I was not her tour director, and she would make her own fun - which let me just "be" .
Can't wait for the rest of the story.
Debbie
Barb, I remember reading your Rome trip report a few months ago. That one had me hooked - and so does this one! I'm looking forward to hearing more about the Divas! (Seriously, D doesn't have a credit card???)
I've traveled to Europe twice with friend - while both of those trips were very special to me, they were also very trying!
Oh, Barb, I'm so sorry you didn't find der Pallaro! I would have been happy to let you vent, or not discuss your travel companions at all, whichever would have made you feel better! Maybe we'll cross paths in the future.
Barb, this has to rate as one of the best trip reports ever posted here. I can't wait for the next instalment and I think you should give serious consideration to taking a day off work just so you can finish off the whole report for us. If the boss objects, let him read your trip report - that should swing it in our favour.
Hi Barb, I can relate as I said the same thing after just returning from Italy with one of my best friends. I did all the planning because 1) It is fun and 2) she seemed totally disinterested in it. Yes we did discuss travel styles before we left and we are both independent etc. but somehow when we got there, I was "controlling" (her exact words) and I felt like I spent months planning the perfect trip for her (her first time in Europe, I've been many times) so she could shop her way through Italy. Unfortunately, I ended up feeling resentful, although I did not let it affect our friendship. Last year I traveled solo in Italy and it was heaven - so to echo your sentiments... never again! I am enjoying your report immensely. JenV
May we have some more please Barb? This is absolutely hilarious - I am hooked!
Barb - What a great report! Sorry to hear you didn't make it to Der Pallaro. I was there this past Sunday with some of "our own"( fellow Fodorites)It was real good time.
Can't wait to hear more of your exploits.
Tom
I will 'tag' this report and then try very hard not to read it for a few days. Hopefully Barb will have poured out all the gory details by then and I do not have to hang in suspense....
We get older and wiser
Having a great read, Barb.

Hi Jen,

>...somehow when we got there, I was "controlling" (her exact words) and I felt like I spent months planning the perfect trip for her...<
I feel your pain.
Okay. It's now 7:12, I've got my coffee, and I'm waiting....
ira & jenv - so true! Traveling with my parents, I was the self-appointed "final room checker" upon departure. This got to be a "you don't trust us" ritual that I began to hate.
Yet one morning when they were in the car waiting (im)patiently for me to finish my inspection of their room, they were immediately silenced forever when I appeared with their medications!
Traveling companions. They're great!
Okay, Barb. Your turn.
Dear Diva Barb,
Your anecdotes about traveling with fellow Divas bring back funny memories of my travels with friends years ago.
You certainly describe all of their faults and flaws in fascinating detail!
Much fun to read, even though I can't help thinking of what happened to Truman Capote after excerpts from "Answered Prayers" were published...and he was a brilliant writer.
You must be brave- I would never dream of trying to do the planning and booking of a trip for five first-time female travelers to Italy unless it was a paying job, and even then...!
It's funny that you even got a post-trip thank you note from your friend-the sub-Divas must have a different perspective. Better luck lext time and have fun continuing your odyssey here.
oh my god, this is hilarious. im reminded of the old Noel Coward song "Why Do The Wrong People Travel". I don't care if I sound like a snob for saying that.
(for anyone who doesn't know this song, I'll post the lyrics. they're very, very funny)
Its so true that you really do not know people until you travel with them.I went on a package tour with a friend to Morocco many years ago to a resort in Agadir...never again. She got a horrific sunburn after my repeated warnings (Try to tell Irish people about sunburn and they ignore it until a Dr need to be called as they are in agony!) She actually ended up cxalling me "mammy" as a joke on this trip because I had to do everythinf even ask for the room keys even though I told he the simple number in French a hundred times. It was shocking to see a capable young woman turn into a quivering mass the second anything becomes awkward or difficult. I had to fight off the guys hassling us in the restaurants, in the shops etc. I was exhausted when I came home...never again. I also never have the desire to go back to Agadir because of all the bad memories. Such a shame!
Now I do what I like and if anyone wants to join they are welcome but I make clear what I want to do.
Sitting at computer and tapping fingers impatiently, waiting for next installment....where IS she??
This is great. I hope nothing heartwarming happens to spoil the mood.
I would love to see a mini-documentary of this trip - but would like to hear the same story through the eyes of the Divas included!
Miss Ziegfeld-thanks for the mention of the Noel Coward Song-I would love to hear those lyrics-maybe I'll google them today..
Barb, your story is just too, too fascinating.

Not getting much work done today.
Oh well, there's always tomorrow!
From a new reader: At the moment, there is only one thing I am grateful for from this report: that I am reading the whole thing on Thurs morning (10/27) on the same day you're supposed to be coming out with the next installment! had I read it last night, I think I would have been too keyed up to sleep! It's so vivid and addictive...What will I do when you leave me hanging tonight????
I had a lousy traveling experience several years ago with just one guy. He WAS a friend of my then boyfriend (now DH). It was his first trip to Paris. He had to be in control of EVERYTHING even though he knew nothing. Among other ridiculous things: he insisted on doing all the talking with his high school French and barred me from EVER talking even though French is my first language!! I totally respected him trying, but resented that I could only speak English, because "if people even heard me talk, they'd ignore him". At the same time, he insisted that we could never separate because it was his "first trip". That was just the tip of the iceberg. NEVER AGAIN!!
Anyhow -- MORE PLEASE!!!
Barb,
Phyllis Stein IS reading this (and her toes are curling!)....
Oh. My. Word.
While you're waiting...
Why do the Wrong People Travel
TravelTravel they say improves the mind,
An irritating platitude
Which frankly, entre nous,Is very far from true.
Personally I've yet to find
That longitude and latitude
Can educate those scores
Of monumental bores
Who travel in groups and herds and troupes
Of various breeds and sexes,
Till the whole world reelsTo shouts and squeals
And the clicking of Rolleiflexes.
Why do the wrong people travel,travel, travel,
When the right people stay back home?
What compulsion compels themAnd who the hell tells them
To drag their bags to ZanzibarInstead of staying quietly in Omaha?
The Taj MahalAnd the Grand CanalAnd the sunny French Riviera
Would be less oppressed
If the Middle West
Would settle for somewhere rather nearer.
Please do not think that I criticise or cavil
At a genuine urge to roam,But why oh why do the wrong peopletravel
When the right people stay back home!Why do the wrong people travel,travel, travel When the right people stay back home?
What explains this mass maniaTo leave Pennsylvania
And clack around like flocks of geese,
Demanding dry martinis on the Isles Of Greece?
In the smallest streetwhere the gourmets meet
They invariably fetch up
And it’s hard to make
Them accept a steak
That isn't served rare and smeared with ketchup
It would take years to un ravel - ravel - ravel
Every impulse that makes them roam
But why oh why do the wrong peopletravelWhen the right people stay back homeWhy do the wrong people travel,travel, travel
When the right people stay back home?
What peculiar obsessionsInspire those processions
Of families from Houston, Tex,With all those cameras around their necks?
They will take a trainOr an aeroplane
For an hour on the Costa Brava,
And they'll see Pompeii
On the only dayThat it's up to its ears in molten lava.
Millions of tourists are churning up the gravel
While they gaze at St. Peter's Dome,But why oh why do the wrong peopletravelWhen the right people stay back home,
And mind their businessWhen the right people stay back home,Won't someone tell me
Why the right people stay back home!
So? Lessons get learned. Same thing happened to me. 2 of us (old friends, 50 something females) go to Paris then hook up down in the Burgundy region for the self-drive barge trip. 14 people. 14 was fine...there was plenty of people to entertain one another when others of us meandered away.
The one person I was to baby-sit through the Paris part of the gig behaved in ways I never saw her do in the STates! Butted in front of a line during the lunch hour at a boulangerie... which left me with a "What the h@LL?" Ripped and tore through a store that sold luggage (she didn't pack light and since no one was helping her carry her luggage, she decided to buy new stuff on wheels)...causing the sales person some duress..anyway. Love my friend dearly but?
A year later, I was back in Paris by myself. Now, the thought of someone accompanying me seems as if a "threat" somehow.
What fun! While I am sitting here this morning anxiously awaiting the next part of "the story" I have a technical question that I hope some of you will be able to help me with.
I am going to be camping this weekend and will be away from my computer. (We leave in 2 hrs) I hate to think I will miss any of Barb's adventures. How can I "tag" this report so I can read it all when I return?
Thank you for your help
1jan1
OMG, this is absolutely hilarious!!! You really should sell the movie rights
I am so sorry that this trip was a fiasco, but I will be honest and say that I am sitting here giggling and cannot stop. Please do not condense any of it though!
Just click on your name.
"This is great. I hope nothing heartwarming happens to spoil the mood."
Hilarious Pausanias - I would travel with you and that's a compliment!! I have been going solo for a few years now and love it.
Reading this made me late for work this morning!!! Waiting for more!
First of all, I love this trip report...I adore it...and can't wait for more.
But, hey guys, I really like travelling with a group of people. I get lonely if I travel alone. And I've had the most wonderful experiences with group.
For all you solo travelers: don't you ever get lonely during your trip?
ok, another travel story while we all are waiting...
Family trip to Italy, paid and hosted by father-in-law. Ten of us. Everyone wanted me to plan it except blind father-in-law who had to be in charge and wanted "credit" for the fun. I knew the only way to see/do/eat incredible things was to make it seem like everything was his idea. So I researched for a year and had pages of "possible" ideas for every conceivable scenario: place, day, weather, etc. Each morning would roll around and we would all face The Man. He would mumble something about how he had worked in Europe and there was so much to see and do (no specifics). I would say, very casually, something like: "oh I heard there is a boat to the islands that might be fun to take."...5 minute pause..."how would we know where to get the boat?"..."what time does the boat leave?" In an off-hand way I would say, "well, if we go down to the pier at 11 we can get on the boat and go." So we would go down at 11 and father-in-law would find his way to the front of our group and orchestrate from there. Everyone on the trip made fun of my bits of paper but we had a wonderful time and father-in-law continued his reign of the family.
1jan1
at the bottom of this thread, next o Post a Reply, is a choice to email it.
Email it to yourself. You won't get the whole thread, just a link to it.
Everytime you go to it, it will have the latest additional postings.
"don't you ever get lonely during your trip?"
Nope - not really. Sure, there are times you get sentimental and wish some SO or friend was w/ you. But it is easy to meet people when traveling, have interesting conversations, etc.
I don't exclusively travel solo, but about 1/2 of my trips to Europe are - and it is sometimes more "lonely" in a group especially if the group is like Barb's.
elaine and LLindaC,
Thank you for your prompt reply...I can go camping with a happy heart knowing that I can catch up on Barb's trip when I return.
1jan1
Wow I can't believe the responses - this is awesome. I see I have hit some nerves here. Just to set the record straight - I absolutely talked about finances before we left and how we would handle shared meals and expenses. I even asked you Fodorites about how you handled similar situations. It was decided that everyone would keep track of what they had ordered and would be sure to have enough cash to pay for their meals. No one mentioned to me that two women would be relying on credit cards for almost everything and that D had a stash of 50 and 100 euro bills in her money belt and would dip into it periodically, yes, in public. Think "perfect target for pickpockets". I talked about travel styles too. It's amazing how all the good intentions of the Divas just flew out the window once we landed in Italy. But... there were many things that were not obvious to me before we left, like how my soon to be roommate really had some mental/psycho issues and unfortunately I would learn about them the hard way. I also told them in no uncertain terms that I did not want to turn into the trip Nazi. I just wanted them all to have a really good time and if I could help them with my experience and knowledge, I would be be more than willing to do that. Even though they had not been to Italy, they had travelled before so I really thought Italy would not be such a shock to their systems. Anyway, on to the next installment as I can between, ugh, work.
Barb, I love your story.
Can't wait for the next chapter.
I put down the book I've been struggling to read. This is so much more interesting. Best thing I've read in awhile. Can't wait to read some more.
Oh, I remember the nightmares about traveling with friends, one of whom I now no longer consider a friend. After reading through this whole thread, I am questioning the wisdom of me plannning to take my nieces to London when they turn 16. It's not like I can at will ditch a teen-ager during her first trip to Europe!
Maybe I should not have kept talking to them about it. Maybe if I never mention it again they will forget??
I can't wait to hear more, Barb. Hurry back.
Hoping you won't let a little thing like work get in the way
of this great story.
Whenever there is a new thread about, "What To Wear", I think the critics who say, "what does it matter?", should be forever more directed to the paragaph about the orange and lime green outfit.
I know I'll be asking future travel partners what they plan to wear, in friendly conversation of course.
I know exactly what you mean regarding having all "the talks" prior to the trip - and then once you get there, it's like it never happened.

The trip with my travel companion from hell was spring 2004 - we're only now getting to where we are back on speaking terms.
This is a great read because I think many of us have been exactly in your shoes before - what's that saying - misery loves company.
This is making me have second thoughts about going to Venice in '06 with a ex-co-worker. I normally either travel alone or with 2 friends that have proven travel worthy. This co-worker and I get along really very well, we have traveled together for business but not a major trip. I had planned to go back to Venice by myself and then she said she'd like to go, and I thought okay....now, these multiple horror stories are scaring me. I had thought that she & I would have discussions about how I like to travel and we'd be okay, but obviously that doesn't always work either. I'd hate for my return to Venice to be ruined by the travel companion! Oh, well, there's a year to go before it happens, maybe she'll change her mind, or maybe I'll find another person who is travel worthy.
great writing -- more, more!
I’m starting to notice two rather disturbing things. One, Diva M (Know it All, But Knows Nothing, KIA) is starting to question and challenge everything I say. She asks me something and then when I answer her, she either does not believe me, or tries very hard to prove me wrong. She has now produced a 10 lb. Lonely Planet Italy Book from 2000, which she apparently she has just started reading on the train to Florence and which is now her Holy Bible and she is starting to quote from it. At first I think this is good. Two, D is starting to talk more and more. She has also developed this weird cough and her laugh is starting to really bother even the rather loud Divas. On the train, I noticed no one really wanted to sit beside D. Describing it as a laugh is really not accurate, it is more like a shriek, usually followed with a “woops”. I guess Diva J had talked to her about this before we left and told her she really needed to watch that and perhaps tone it down a little. Maybe she was feeling a litte more relaxed at this point in the trip and did not think anyone would notice, Ha.
Anyway, are first stop is Cappelle Medici, then Palazzo Medici Riccardi, both very enjoyable and I highly recommend. Won’t comment on them because I’m sure most people have been there, or are familiar with them. On to the San Lorenzo Market. Eiffel Tower Diva’s eyes glaze over when she sees the market and she is immediately into shopping mode. She’s amazing, she speaks no Italian and doesn’t even try, but I hear her in a very loud voice, ask the man selling ties, How mucho the tie-o’s. And, amazingly, he answers her in English, ten euro. She says, I don’t think so, and starts to walk away, he says, ok, 9 euro, she says 7, he says no, she starts walking, he says, OK. The Divas are all watching her at this point with a newfound admiration. I’m thinking oh Lord this is going to be a long day. But amazingly she’s done after three purchases and we move on.
Everyone is getting hungry and they really want to eat at this very touristy place right on the sidewalk on the main street to the Accademia. I say nothing, but I’m thinking, this should be good. Well for the Divas it was. We had sandwiches that I am sure were frozen at one time and maybe defrosted right before we ordered them. I have a glass of wine to keep me going. The Divas are really impressed with how fast the service is and how fast the bill comes – we haven’t even finished eating. Diva KIA, says, now that’s more like it.
Because I was remiss in making reservations for David, we stand in line for an hour. As I am writing this, I am thinking why in the world would I stand in line with them for an hour. Why didn’t I just go off on my own and have some alone time. I do not have a good answer for this. They love David and even though I have seen him before, I still get goosebumps. The Divas are wondering why his hands are so big, I’m wondering if they read anything at all before they came on this trip, and just as I was about to answer, I could see KIA thumbing madly through Lonely Planet. I thought, let her tell them and walked away.
While we were in the Accademia, it had started to really pour rain and then thunder and lightning. Because it was warm and sunny when we left Rome, none of were dressed for a rainstorm/fast becoming typhoon and had not brought our umbrellas. BUT…like a miracle, the umbrella vendors are waiting for us as we exit and 5 euro later we all have our new colorful umbrellas – how did Eiffel Tower find a bright green plaid?
Again with IRA’s great directions – thanks Ira! we find the Duomo, but even in this storm there is a long line to get in. I look at the Divas and they mouth “NO”. So, we walk over to the Piazza Signoria and past the very long line to the Uffizi, which we had early on decided not to see because of time constraints. As we approach the Ponte Vecchio, I think Eiffel Tower is going to have a blast here, but apparently the storm has put a damper, lol, on her shopping mood, but we do manage a little window shopping. By now J and my umbrellas have blown inside out a few times. J’s is still looking good, but mine is now resembling an instrument of torture, with sharp spokes sticking out, oh well, it was covering up most of my upper body and it’s better than nothing.
I was REALLY hoping that we could have a late lunch, early dinner at Osteria Del Cinchiale, but unfortunately when we arrive there, it’s not open until 6:30 and our train leaves at 7:30, and it’s only 5:00 pm. boo hoo. It’s starting to get dark and the lightning is lighting up the night sky – Can you get struck by lightning through the spokes of an umbrella, even if you have rubber soles on your shoes?
We stumble upon this cozy looking little restaurant just off the main street to the Pitti Palace in sort of a covered atrium. It doesn’t look open, but as we are all standing there, with rain dripping off us, I think the owner takes pity on us and opens the door, gesturing for us to come in. It’s warm, it smells heavenly. My jeans are wet to the knees and my Ameri-Bag is dripping. What a wonderful place this is. I have probably the best ribollita I’ve ever had and grilled lamb chops with roasted pototates with rosemary and spinachi to die for. With vino it’s 25E. He even gave us separate bills! This ristorante was like a haven in the middle of the storm. We ate with gusto while listening to rain and thunder. We did not want to leave here, but unfortunately we had a train to catch.
oh the suspense!!! can't wait for more ...
Barb, your story is so funny, but at the same time I am sorry that "group travel" did not work for you. I brings me so much joy, but I am very careful about whom I travel with.
I have a group of 7 friends (late 40's and early 50's) that I travel with. We have been to Paris and Madrid, and our next tripped was planned for Florence in the spring. I knew them all, but they did not all know each other. I knew how they all dress (which matters to me), and I knew that none were whiners which matters more! Some tell me things they want to do; others say do whatever and are happy with it.
As I said, it is the greatest joy of my life. I travel a lot more than they do,so I love "showing" Europe to them.
Three weeks ago, one of our group died from a very short illness. Her breast cancer returned after our spring Madrid trip, and now she is gone. We don't even know if we can travel together again, now. We do know that we would never chance to try to replace her, although we always have people who begged to go with us. I hope you find a better travel group and try it again. It has bonded us all in a way that nothing else would have.
oh my GOD, did she really ask him "how mucho the tie-os?"???!
wowow..i didn't think people actually DID that, I thought that was just something people said in the movies! Wow. I apologize to all of Europe on behalf of all americans.
why are his hands so big????
My stomach muscles are sore from laughing! What a tale. I have travelled solo, with SO, family and with gfs. I think each is unique. The girls I travelled with actually made the trips the successes they were but maybe we were just lucky. I like to think I have been blessed with fabulous friends all of whom seem to have a wanderlust. We also have been friends for so many years that we have no secrets. Talk is always very blunt as to where we want to go and the budget. I seem to be the planner but that doesn't seem to upset anyone as I have always included everyones must dos. For us, the trips have always been time to enjoy each other without our husbands, fiancees bfs or kids....so group trips can also be a joy!
Barb - Great report! I'm anticipating your new adventures with bated breath...will the Divas eat calimari by mistake and think it's some weird chewy pasta? Will they refuse to visit the Forum because it's just a bunch of old buildings/rocks? More please!? And thanks for the best read I've had in a while!


Great fun reading about your trip - thanks!
Sitting at work like many of you, savoring this and waiting for more...great story, Barb. Glad they loved David, at least.
Meanwhile, I am also enjoying the trip trials and successes of other posters!
Marty, yours touched me; I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. One of the reasons (which I didn't mention in my earlier post) for the success of my (mostly) excellent group trip last spring was that the 'chosen' friends have seen me through the last stressful 5 yrs: breast cancer, sick family member and divorce...ay yi yi! Talk about bonding.
After reading all these posts, boy do I feel blessed to have friends I can travel with! (even the snoring ones).
I was thinking about this.
Solo travel is great. Travel a deux, with the right 'deux', is great.
The larger the group, of course as with any group, the much greater the odds of conflict--in expectations, life style, spending habits, dietary needs, stamina issues, etc. And if some of these additional people are friends of friends, you are even less likely to have spent much time with them, to notice how they divide up checks at restaurants, or what their food issues are, or whether or not they are prompt vs laid back and flexible, how often they whine, how independent they are not, etc.
If I had to pick one possibly imperfect way to travel I'll take my chances with being solo rather than take chances on other people (or they with me). When I'm on my own, I may occasionally miss having someone to share the experience with, but that disadvantage pales in comparison to the tales Barb is sharing.
I know someone who is, to put it nicely: a control freak. She tends to talk more when in a situation out of her control. It's almost a babble (those trees must be pines, the seat cushion fabric is some type of synthetic, I wonder if it's protected with ScotchGuard) is a coping device for her . I wonder if it's the same for the divas on the train.
As much as I want to scream "STOP" I've realized it's her way to deal with situations out of her control.
I feel the need to find pants with the Eifel Tower on them (though not in bright colors). Do you know where your friend bought them from?
Your quote from the Diva," How mucho the tie-o’s' brings back a memory from a trip I took to Rome in 1983.
I had just bought a Coke from a vendor next to the Trevi fountains for 1,000 Lire.
As I walked away the person behind me,who could easly fit your description of a Diva,asked the vendor for the price of a Coke.The vendor replied,"Mille lire."The Diva replied in a very loud voice,"How much is that in American money"
Trying to find a taxi on a rainy Sunday night proved impossible, so we walked back to the station. Soaking wet, tired and cranky, we are trying to figure out which binario our train is on. I know which train is ours, but KIA goes into to the tourist info office to make sure, or to prove me wrong? D and N are off to McDonalds to use the WC. We are ready to board and D and N are not back yet. Again, another mad dash to make the train. We are all in separate seats in three different cars. It was a very long ride back to Rome, staring at two strangers across from me. My head kept nodding down and then it would snap upright, while I was trying to look “normal” and not drool on myself. The man across from me stared at me the whole way, while talking on his cell phone. I know he was talking about me, lol.
So, the Divas are planning on seeing the Colosseum and Forum the next day and I finally have a whole day to myself. I had planned on visiting with Sandra, the woman I rented the apt. from in March. We have become good friends and I am anxious to see her again. D is pouring her second glass of wine and re-telling me for the third time about the time she travelled to the South of France ( 34 yrs. ago) and how all the men were after her. …. I ask her if she needed any help sleeping and offered her an Ambian, lol. All I wanted to do was just sit and listen to my music (my son had given me a cute little travel speaker for my Walkman and it works great) write in my journal and read a few chapters before I turned in. D does not journal and did not even bring a book to read and she says it’s too early to go to bed. She said she usually doesn’t turn in until 12:00 or so, but then she likes to sleep in. She is self-employed and makes her own hours. I offer her a book to read – no go. I finally just tell her that I need some alone time to journal. She takes the hint and goes up to the bedroom. She then tells me that from now, if I have to use the bathroom in the middle of the night, please do not turn on the lights and do not close the door because it squeaks and wakes her up. I am glad she can’t see the murderous look on my face. I ask her how the heck am I supposed to see in the dark. In a slightly nasty voice, she says, with that little flashlight you so thoughtful brought with you. I am just about to tell her where she could stick my little flashlight when I thought of what my son said to me before I left – don’t say anything that will make your trip even worse and maybe ruin a friendship.
The rain seems to have followed us South to Rome. The Divas were meeting in J and M’s apt. to plan out their day, but everyone slept in (I was the only one with an alarm clock). D is still in bed. I thought we should try to get our train tickets for Naples before we all set out for the day and there is a travel agent right around the corner. As I walk into their apt. there is total pandemonium. Everyone is talking at once, and poor J is trying to get them under control. P and N do not want to go to the Colosseum/Forum because of the rain, but they don’t really have an alternate plan. J and M want to go, even if it’s raining. D stumbles in yawning, still in her pjs. I finally say, let’s just go get our train tickets and then you can all decide on what you want to do.
Thank heavens the travel agent was a patient person. I had the schedule in hand, I knew what train we needed in order to be in Naples at the appointed time where Mr. Renalto Cuomo was to meet us and take us to Sorrento. (which I had arranged with their approval) But for some reason, they now think it might be better to leave a little later and can’t I just call Mr. Cuomo and arrange that. I say no. I am starting to get angry. Diva J tries to calm them down, the travel agent is tapping her fingers on the her desk. They finally agree, the ticket is printed – we get a 10% discount because there is a group! but only one ticket(s) and I get to be the ticket holder. Now, we have to pay for it. D only has a 100, N and P need to use credit cards, I have the exact amount, so I give it to N, suggest that she may want to put it all on her card and everyone can pay her. KIA says that’s not fair to N. I can feel my BP rising. I took a deep breath and said, I’ve got to go and left.
I’m walking across Piazza Farnese feeling like a liberated woman! I head off to Trastevere almost skipping along. I call Sandra and we are meeting at her apt. and then going to her “Woman’s Club” for coffee. I can hardly wait to tell her about the Divas.
Why are David's hands so big? Well, this is the story I got while looking at him. He was supposed to be put in one of the niches outside one of the churches. It has to do with scale. They want all the figures to look the same and of course with perspective, if all the statues are the same size the higher up they are the smaller they look, so they had to make adjustments when they carved them depending on where they were installed. So, anyway, that's what I heard.
How big is the "cute little speaker for walkman"? I assume you mean like a regular CD walkman thingie? Speakers would be cool to have, but they'd have to be small to fit in the 21" roller.
Hi, Barb!
Your report is hilarious! Reminds me of some trips with relatives, long ago.
BRAVO! BRAVO! More! More! I hate to say it, but it makes me feel better about myself. Had a somewhat similar experience and hated myself for thoughts of ditching the group, etc.
I think this would make a great screenplay!
Thanks for taking the time to share it with us!
H
"The Divas are wondering why his hands are so big."
If you're looking at the David who's looking at hands? ; ))))
"How did Eiffel Tower find a bright green plaid? "
LOL!!!
"We are all in separate seats in three different cars."
Thank G-d for small favors. : )
"I’m walking across Piazza Farnese feeling like a liberated woman! I head off to Trastevere almost skipping along."
Go Barbie!!!!!!
I want to know the name of the restaurant at Pitti too when you get your breath.
Great story!!
Kakalena
I"m not sure that the story about David being carved to fit in a niche is true.
I believe he was always supposed to be out in a public piazza, such as where the large copy is now. Anyway, according to this story all of David is in proportion, with one exception
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050221/davidpisello.html
I had a wonderful morning – I met Sandra’s very handsome son who lives in Toronto, but now that he has graduated and has his Masters, he’s moving back to Roma. Sandra is very happy. GianCarlo shows me his lastest paintings. I can feel my BP going down and for the first time since we left, I am relaxing. Sandra wants me to stay for lunch, but she has some errands to run, so we agree that I will come back at 1:30. Even in the rain, I’m feeling happy. I go back to my apt. – ah the silence!! Change into dry shoes and walk to the Campo where I buy a bottle of wine and some flowers for Sandra. Had a wonderful lunch with my friends. They wish me luck with the Divas and I reluctantly walk back to the apt. to meet with Divas to see what the plan for the evening is.
They are still not back, so I play some music, Dido, love her! pour a little wine and write in my journal while I have the chance. I write that I can’t believe how disappointed I am feeling. I have budgeted and saved for this trip, I’ve researched, planned and tried so hard to make everyone happy. I am now thinking to hell with them. Here I am, a person who tries so hard to fit it, be as unobtrusive (is that a word?) as I can. I dress a certain way, I linger over dinner, I enjoy Rome so much and I am with a group of women who are as far away from this kind of person as they can be. I vow that I will totally back off, I will let them flounder, that I will pay for my dinners and then just let them fight it out. I will tell them when they are getting too loud instead of cowering in my seat. Well, it sounded good at the time.
I hear voices, the Divas are back. Again there is chaos. They are wet, hungry and tired, it’s 5:00 pm. I told them about a restaurant I had spotted not far from the Campo and I could go make a reservation for 8:00. They all looked at me with hatred in their eyes. M and N had to eat now!! Apparently P is sick again and is staying in. D and J said they really need to eat too, but could wait. I say, ok, you all go out and eat and I will go out later by myself and walked back to my apt. A few minutes later they all appeared at my door and said, if we can eat at 6:30, we’ll all go with you. Oh no. So we did. We went to La Pallarino, just off the Campo. We were seated in a separate room from the locals, which at first bugged me, but I was thankful later on when the noise level from our table rose. Eiffel Tower and D are pretty good at saying burro (for their bread) and they are happy to see English on the menu. They rush through their one course and my second course of roast young pig has not arrived when they are talking about the bill and leaving. They are all shocked that I would eat young pig. I told them they could go, just leave their money, they insisted on staying with me. When the bill came, the same old scene.. outraged at the coperto (sp) charge and refused to leave a tip. I was too tired to argue with them. Apparently they have their second wind and want to walk to the Trevi and throw their coins in. I want to throw them in, ha. They liked the fountain, but D almost had her camera stolen because she asked this young girl, gypsy, to take her pic. We had talked about the gypsies, I even pointed them out to her on several occasions. Luckily, J was able to grab it from her as she was about to make her escape - too many people to make a fast getaway. Coming back through the Piazza Navona, I just want to sit at one of the cafes, have a drink and enjoy the evening and do some people watching. When I suggested it, they again, had no idea why I would want to do this and reluctantly sat down with me. I told them they didn't have to that I was just fine by myself. I had a small prosecco and J and D had warm milk! N and M had nothing, but sat and yawned and complained how cold it was and how tired they were. It's 9:30 pm! These women are everything I strive not to be. D starts her nightly dialogue as soon as we get back to the apt., but with a new theme now, bad mouthing the Divas. I tell her I'm going to bed, but I don't. I secretly write in my journal and read with my flashlight and hope she falls asleep soon.
Sorry I didnt get the name of the restaurant in Florence. This is just not like me, as you might have noted from other reports, I always get the names and addresses and all the details. I was just so distracted on this trip.
The speaker for my Walkman CD player is a little Sony that literally fits in the palm of my hand and runs on AA batteries. I will find out the specifics for you and post it later.
Oh, Barb, you don't know how sympathetic I am reading all this! Reminds me of that one time I was on a trip with my father and his woman (never even a Diva!). At least I had enough sence to reserve 2 hotel rooms!

And earplugs with the wires just stuck in a purse gives an impression of me listening to a radio
Is anbody else starting to feel sorry for Barb's "friends?"
Is there two sides to this story?
Ha: "I want to throw them in, ha"
That's a great link, elaine, on David.
I think you're right about David and Piazza della Signoria. There's an interesting exposition on the Piazza in the OUP Very Short Intro on Renaissance Art. I forget the details, but one of the chapters talks about how the sculptures for that square evolved with Florentine politics. David was specially commissioned for this purpose.
OUP link:
http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/ArtArchitecture/History/Renaissance/?view=usa&ci=0192803549
Just read this thread and Barb, I a full of sympathy! I've had some mildly difficult occasions with travel friends but few and far between and nothing as bad as your experience.
On the other hand, it makes for a fabulous read - thanks for sharing!
My mom has the pants (and the bright orange top and an electric yellow one to boot - more mixing and matching possibilities). I laughed so hard when I read your description of the outfit - thinking "that's my mom!"
ncgrrl - my mom got hers at "Laura" a women's clothing chain in Canada. They were part of the summer line though (and strangely popular it would seem) so you're probably out of luck!
Barb - Great report - keep it coming please! I know how hard it is to find time to post (what with all this reading of others posts!)- I've been compiling a Tuscany trip report and haven't gotten it ready for posting but will soon. I do plan to share some insights into the group planning pitfalls I experienced - but it won't be nearly as entertaining as yours though!
To wliwl
No
WLIWL, sure I feel sorry! I also felt sorry for my fellow traveler in Switzerland who DEMANDED ice in glass by bangin' a knife on it. Who ate at McD and was mad the price was so high.
I feel sorry for everybody who can't appreciate how lucky they are to be able to travel to great places, eat great food, who can't relax and enjoy the moment.
Oh, maybe not sorry. Maybe it's pity. Poor souls.
OMG! Barb, I must read more! I admire your patience (at least up to this point) and am amazed you didn't throttle D in the middle of the night.
I (35y/F) went to Rome with my mother (56) last Fall. We are extremely close and every once in a while she drives me crazy - I was worried the 24/7 close quarters (and snoring)would drive me nuts, however I was pleasantly surprised. The 10 days was the best bonding experience we've had and it really enriched our mother/daughter relationship.
Last March I traveled to San Diego with an old college friend, we had fun and were usually on the same page. Since I had given her FF miles and paid (with points) for the first two of four nights at the Manchester Grand Hyatt, she was to pick up the tab for the remaining nights. Upon checkout she was surprised that the room service bfasts (hers) and room taxes were so high. We had talked about the costs of everything pre-trip, and then split meals, excursions and car rental 50/50 once in Cali. I can't help but think the reason she is avoiding my calls (since March!) is b/c of the "surprise" of the c/o bill. Hopefully I'm just paranoid.
How have other Fodorites handled the back-end of trips with friends?
Barb, get some rest so you can continue sharing your travels the board...they are much enjoyed.
Cheers,
Christine in Philly
I'm sure there are two sides but anyone who doesn't want to stop at Piazza Navona
for a drink............I'm with Barb!
Barb-
I think you had the patience of a saint. My biggest peeve was when my travel companion from hell (TCFH) would complain about going somewhere or doing something - and when I suggested that we part so she could do what she liked, she chose to stick around anyway - and then sulked the entire time.
Luckily, my TCFH was only one in a group of 4 of us. I at least had my other 2 travel companions to vent to, or to play interference between me and TCFH.
Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like you were able to do that.
To wliwl
No, I do not feel sorry for them. As I recall reading, Barb made it very clear that they were responsible for their own research. It sounds like they did none, and then just expected Barb to cater to their every whim.
The Divas sound quite a bit like a group I once traveled with. No pity from me!
Keep up the good writing Barb, it's truly enjoyable!
H
wliwl: Gee I could probably hook you up with the Divas - sounds like maybe you guys might really hit it off. Just kidding.
BTW the name of the speakers is Sony SRS-T33. Now it's not great sound quality, but for a hotel room, or a small apt. I thought it was perfect for me.
Of course there are two sides to every story! In this case, there are six. But I'd bet none of 'em are anywhere NEAR as entertaining as this one!
Barb,could you tell us where do you live? I mean small town, city, what part of US (if so)? I m just wondering because of the "intersection"problem.Of course I got totally hooked on your story. AND I completely relate, I too can not STAND people who just-have-to- eatrightnow or they are gooing to DIIIEEEE!!!
I sympathize.
You who have found great travel troups of 4 or 5 are VERY blessed. I've got lots of good friends, and they are married/pairs and don't travel well. And I'm always looking for some that do.
My friends always turn out almost the same as Barbs, have to have American times/habits for everything. WHY travel that way???
Barb, I'd travel with you easily. And LoveItaly, I would with you as well.
Savor the moment and enjoy the differences! Barb, you were a saint to even try with that many.
I am now 'officaly' late for my planned shopping trip to purchase my walking shoes for our planned trip in 8 weeks.
)
But I couldn't stop reading. I tend to be the planner (anyone who has seen any of my posts would know this
We went to New Zealand last year with 2 other families. One of the DH's had worked in the travel industry for about 5minutes 100 years ago and was promptly given the title of 'Ski Nazi'! I realized very early on, let it go. It was a great trip. We just let him organize what ever he wanted and learned to ignore the disappointment in his face, if we said that sounds great, but we think we will do 'this' today.
And to stop the restaurant dramas 'every' night, my DH and the other DH, just paid as ski nazi only ever had a large note, and he would give us what he wanted at some stage.
Sometimes he did, most times he didn't. Gave us all something to gripe about over post dinner drinks (minus the ski nazi)
Can't wait to read more.
Today the Divas are going to St. Peter’s and the Vatican, J,D and M are doing the Scavi Tour too. D got up in a real huff at 8:00 a.m.!! I can’t believe she made it up that early. Well, apparently they had arranged to all meet next door at 8:30 and now she’s late – she’s swearing and saying she can’t believe how unfair they are for making such early morning arrangements when they know how hard it is for her to get up and going that early. I just smile from bed. I hear her banging on their door. I hear more swearing. I look out the window and D is walking down the street alone. Oh no, I’m hoping and praying they have not left her and she will be hanging with me today. This is our last day in Rome and I have been looking forward to spending it doing some things I wanted to do. She doesn’t come back so I breath a sigh of relief.
I had a great morning, took a bath, pretty much got packed so I didn’t’ have to worry about it that night. I walked to the Campo to have a cappuccino and croissant. It’s sunny, and warm. In the matter of a few minutes, it’s clouding over, sprinkling, then blowing, then really raining. I go back to the apt. to change into something warmer and grab my umbrella. I am off to the find the Malta keyhole. 15 minutes into my walk, the sun comes out, I’m sweating! For the rest of the day, I’m carrying around a coat, scarf and umbrella. But I don’t care, I’m on my own and I am happy.
I am so overjoyed that I found the Keyhole. I am the only one there. It’s almost an eerie moment for me. It is so amazing and I am SO glad the Divas are not here because I know exactly what they would say. What, we walked all the way up that god awful hill, I’m sweating, my feet hurt and I’m exhausted – all for this little keyhole! Just down the road is a beautiful little park with orange trees and the most amazing vista of Rome over the rooftops and St. Peter’s in the distance. It’s peaceful and quiet and I sit for a few minutes soaking it all up and putting it in reserves as I know I will need it later. Walked back down the hill, just taking my time. I walk through the Ghetto and debate about eating lunch here. I keep on walking and settle on a Ristoranti Da Pancrazio on Piazza Del Biscoine 92/94. It was a little pricey, but I don’t care. I order my favorite dish of Bucatini alla Amerticiana and antipasto della casa with bread and ½ ltr. of vino bianca 32E. I so enjoyed this meal. Dining alone allows you the luxury of taking your time, listening and observing people around you. There was a family lunch at the table next to me. Mother, grandmother, sons, daughters, two little boys and possibly great grandpa. They were animated, joyous and apparently very hungry! It’s great to watch them having such a good time. It’s been a good day.
I walk back to the apt. and call and confirm the limo for Naples. I was really hoping our last evening in Rome would be ok. The plan was for all of us to go to Orso 80. I had been talking about this place to them for months.
>...thanks Ira!

You are welcome, Barb.
Oh Barb, I think you handled this trip so well, I don't think I would have done nearly as well as you did...well at least to this point of your trip.
I would have been out of the apartment and into a hotel, a small single room, LOL. You seem to have the patience of an angel.
JJ5, I reread your comment to me three times. I am overwhelmed by your comment dear one! You and I in Italy, can you see how much fun we would have ordering food, LOL! I imagine that your Italian language is much better than mine however. You would probably be hitting me over the head
Barb, I still am chuckling over your adventures with The Divas but I know it was not fun. I am only chuckling because of your great sense of humor and writing style. I really do feel bad that this trip seems to be such a disaster. Now more details please!
PS This would make an absolutely fantastic movie!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Barb, for such an entertaining report!
You have given me a lot to think about with an upcoming trip I am planning for my mom & my sisters this March -- they are also Italian virgins. I hope it goes better than yours... I can't imagine that it could be worse.
One upside to your painful travels with the Divas is that you managed to gather enough material to write one of the funniest trip reports ever!! "how mucho is the tie-o?" and "KIA"... LOL!
Barb,

I hold you personally responsible for barely getting any work done today!
My computer crashes and look what I almost miss. I am now double thinking my next trip with a girl friend I have never travelled with. I feel forewarned! Can't wait for the next installment.
I really hope I'm not scaring you all off from traveling with other people. I know lots of people who have no problems at all. SeaUrchin and Seashell are a good example. They are wonderful friends and travel so well together. We had such fun in March. But it is a real risky business, even with the best laid plans and lots of reassurances.
Don't worry, Barb, it's just a warning to discuss all aspects of travel before travel without any hope they will listen
I am planning a family trip for myself, my parents, my husband, my sister, and my father-in-law in 2007... your report hasn't scared me off but it has made me think of some things I am going to insist be discussed. THANK YOU!
Well what a night it was! We were all supposed to meet by the big fountain in P. Navona at 7:00. D has come back in a really bad mood. J is rolling her eyes. Apparently they didn’t like the Scavi Tour. It was too hot, too confined and J almost fainted, and KIA kept saying what a waste of precious time. I bite my tongue. They picked up a guide for the Vatican, who was not very good and they were bored to tears, but J at least got to see the Sistine Chapel. They had a really good lunch apparently right across from the Vatican. D said this real nice man was standing in the door asking people to come on in. They had pizza that didn’t have that thin crust like everywhere else and it was only 5 E. I don’t say a word. D has a few glasses of vino while she’s getting ready for dinner and now she’s telling me all about KIA and how she can’t wait to get away from her. Eiffel Tower, Scared to Death and KIA are sitting waiting for D, J and me by the fountain. They say they are tired and can’t walk one more step. I say, you mean you aren’t going to Orso 80 and they emphatically say no. At this point, I could care less. They limp off and we carry on.
We had a fabulous meal, as always, just the antipasti, JUST, I counted 14 bowls of delectable delicious food. D is starting to get very loud and argumentative. J is hardly saying a word. D is going on and on about how North Americans just have no idea how to live, Europeans have the right idea – she’s going home and quitting her job and do whatever she needs to do to move to Rome. J asks, gee how are you going to do that? I’m keeping my mouth shut. She says she will get a job as a waitress in a cute place. J reminds her that she is 50+ and doesn’t speak Italian – I want to say and you have a bad attitude, but I don’t. Then she notices a young couple in the corner holding hands. She says, not in a whisper, believe me. I bet he thinks he’s going to get lucky tonight, but if she knows what’s good for her, she will wait until he is just begging – I’m thinking OMG I don’t believe this! THEN she zones in on a table of four older men in dark suits and she actually points at them and says “And don’t try to tell me they aren’t mafia. They might think they are hiding it, but I know one when I see one”. I am absolutely mortified and a little worried she might be right. The waiter comes over and collects some of our plates and gives me this “look”, like shut her up please. J tells her to lower her voice, she says something like, oh don’t’ be such a prude and waives her arm and knocks over her glass of red wine. I just want to get out of there. J and I quickly get the bill and pay it and tell her she can pay us later.
On the way back to the apt, I’m speechless. I’m thinking nobody is ever going to believe this. It’s a nightmare. D spots a gelato place and goes in to get some. J and I look at each other. I say, I cannot believe this. J tells me that she thinks D has some mental problems. I say, gee thanks for telling me. I tell J that she might need to room with her in Sorrento for a few days just to give me a break and J says she will think about it. I’m wondering how I am going to survive the next 8 days with her. Sea Urchin called me at 11:45 and I can’t talk to her about what’s going on because D is sitting there and won’t go to bed. I’m looking at D and even though she has caused such a scene tonight I think she’s a sad person who lives in the past and really has no future. But I’m afraid if she repeats what she did tonight, I will not be able to hold back and it could ruin the whole trip. She says she will pack in the morning - I know we will not have much time and encourage her to do it now. Well, she does - until 2:00 am.
People when they travel are the same as at home, only more so. It is easy to spot problem areas if you pay attention. A needy or self-centered friend at home will be even more so on the road, for example.
We make it onto the train ok. There is a definite hush amongst the Divas. I suspect J has clued them in on what happened the night before. D is sitting with M and I am so glad. D goes to the WC and we talk about the situation. It is agreed that we will not tolerate any further behavior like that and I said if she gave me any problems, that she would have to go find her own place to stay. We get our first glimpse of the Med and our spirits lift a little. I just want to feel the sun on my face and can hardly wait to sit on the terrace of the Lorelei and relax. We are talking about all doing a spa day on Ischia. Friends from home, Luisa and Pasquele, have given me a name of a person she went to school with on Ischia. Luisa was born and raised on Ischia. I am really looking forward to this.
My notes for the next few days are really scribbled down and just reading them now is causing my stomach to tighten. But I will get the next installment done tonight and post tomorrow a.m. Gulp.
Oh, Barb, what a nightmare! It was funny till the Orso 80 dinner, then it got kind of scary. You really are a trooper, I wouldn't have been half as nice to half of them!
You have good karma coming your way for all your patience
Bless your heart. I really do appreciate your entire story because it really does help me in planning what types of questions to ask the fam when I am planning our trip.
You know I'm hooked when I read that your stomach is tightening just reading your scribbled notes and my stomach starts tightening in sympathy.
This makes me glad on one wants to spend any time with me.
Barb,
Thank you for yet another installment of your group trip from he** - I logged on after work hoping to read another chapter or two. I wonder what D will do next!
Christine
Barb, I can't help using the military version of KIA and at least some of them would have been if I'd been in your shoes!
Poor Barb....Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, it did. How can you possibly make it thru the next week with these people, trapped like a rat in a cage??
Well, I'm sorry, because I've enjoyed Barb's writing too...I just think it's a little mean to go on a trip with "friends" that maybe didn't work out well (who wouldn't agree that it is darn near impossible to travel with a group of 5 friends?) and then come back and publicly rip them apart on the internet. It just makes me feel bad that it's entertainment.
It's Barb wanting to vent, wanting to get a little sympathy (she deserves it) and, make lemonade out of lemons, and to provide a cautionary tale which is very useful. Even if only 50% of this story were made up (I'm not saying it is, it all rings so true) it would be valuable for us to hear it.
For the rest of us, yes, it's part entertainment, it's also a learning experience and an opportunity to give sympathetic feedback to a fellow traveler. Real names are not being used, we will never meet those divas.
I'm glad to say. I thank Barb for sharing it with us.
I go away for 2 days and have had to read this whole report at once. I missed a lot.

While parts of the story are amusing, I mostly just sympathize with Barb on this one.
It is a very useful lesson in what works and doesn't in travel. I have been fortunate to travel with DH, with my immediate family (DH and 2 sons), extended family, and with friends. For the most part, it has worked very well. But, we tailored each trip to work for the group going.
I have also learned that just because someone is a good friend does NOT mean he/she would be a good travel companion. I look to travel with other travellers, not just friends.
I am a little nervous about a trip for 9, all relatives, that I may plan for June 2007 as a family heritage trip to Eastern/Central Europe. This report has helped give me some ideas for preparing this trip.
I will say I can't imagine travelling with anyone who wouldn't be interested in stopping for a drink in Piazza Navona!
While I think solo travel has some good points, I also wouldn't give up on the idea of sharing a trip with a few people (like many on this board) who would really enjoy and appreciate all you did, and would feel fine doing their "own thing" when interests diverged. Your experience is in direct contrast with another great report going on right now from maitaitom.
I hope you are able to savor the many good things about your trip and learn from the bad stuff.
Here's to your next trip!
Wow, Barb, I can't believe you have another eight days to go with this group! Makes me so glad I decided I didn't know anyone who would want the kind of trip I wanted and that I should go myself. No regrets! Hope your next trip is much better, and I'm sure it will be solo!
The thing most of us have not learned is that we cannot please everyone all the time. When we try, we just end up disappointed, since none are truly satisfied. But we never give up trying! I do try to say things in a more definitive way now (although I don't always succeed! ), such as "I'm going to enjoy a coffee here by myself a while" instead of "Doesn't this look like a nice place to stop for a coffee." After all, the only thing we can ever hope to control is our own reaction to the insanity around us! I would have been taking "cleansing breathes" like crazy on this trip... Reminds me of a story during NH foliage season a couple years ago: A woman driving her mom, mom's friend, aunt, and uncle around the mountains had finally had enough. She stopped the minivan, made them all get out, put their luggage on the side of the road, and drove off! (True story.) Hey, Barb, can you relate?! Enjoying your tale of woe, and wondering what was everyone's final impression of the trip!
Maybe you already answered this and I missed it, but why didn't you ditch them and go off on your own? Sense of responsibility? (Hey, it's not as if you're abandoning them in the Outback, and they've got each other.) Don't want to offend them? (Awfully nice of you, especially considering three of them weren't friends of yours.) Don't want to spend the extra money? (Frankly, I'd rather sleep in a cheap dump then be cooped up on a trip from hell.) Maybe you're just more tolerant of misery than you think!
Barb has all my sympathy. I got caught up in such a similar situation in Greece and didn't speak up. The only way I could find to cleanse myself of the nightmare trip was to recount all the details to several people. And Barb, I don't think you are publicly bashing these people on the Internet: you aren't using names, hometowns, or anything that would identify them. I am enjoying reading this and I keep coming back to check for the latest installments. Thanks!
Why didn't you continue the trip on your own if you couldn't stand the group you ended up with?
I do think there is a bit of bashing going on, to be realistic.
I am pretty sure that if one of these women ever comes across this report, they will surely feel well-stung, whether ir not names are used!
Barb, I don't know what you do for a living, but you really missed the boat by not becoming a writer. You're great. I've actually been sitting at my computer for quite some time now reading about your misadventures in Italy.
My husband just arrived home on 10/15 after a 4 week trip. We started with a tour group of 40 people (most of whom we already knew & are great travelling companions) for a 9 day trip to Budapest, Vienna and Prague. It was my first trip to Central Europe and found it very educational. Although it is nice to have a tour company plan your trip and take care of absolutely everything for you, there is definitely a downside. Since I knew that I didn't have to do any prep work, I didn't, and I found that I did not not enjoy the trip nearly as much as I do when I plan myself. I didn't know nearly enough about the three cities we visited, and the time just seemed to go by in a haze. The tour group left for home (NW Illinois)and my husband and I flew to Milan, picked up our rental car and drove to Rapollo. We were meeting friends there for a convention of Cartoon Art. My husband and a buddy of his formed The Carl Barks Fan Club many years ago and there are now members all over the world. Carl Barks was famous for the Disney Ducks, Donald, Scrooge, Huey , Dewey, and Louie. Both my hubby and his pal collect Scrooge McDuck memorabilia and artwork. My hubby is a banker, so I understand his fascination with Scrooge, but his buddy is a Lutheran minister, so I'm not quite sure what the connection is except for the fact that we're constantly teasing him about being overly conservative when it comes to money. We won't let him book hotels anymore because he always picks some flea bag hotel or B&B (read CHEAP) with toilet paper that feels like sandpaper and with a bathroom so small you can't shut the door.
Anyway, hubby and I left Rapollo for the Cinque Terra, hiked a couple of times there, then onto Florence via Pisa for a quick trip to the top of the tower. For some reason we did not have directions to the villa we were staying in outside of Florence. We also had no city map of Florence. Apparently we thought the place would just magically appear, or my hubby's exceedingly amazing ability to navigate would get us there. Duh!!!! To make a long story short, it took us nearly two hours to find the place after stopping for directions four times. Once we arrived, though, it was worth it. We stayed in an authentic Italian villa, the Villa La Sosta, recommended by some wealthy friends of our frugle (sp, it's late and I'm tired) Lutheran minister. We had our on private entrance with this door that had to be the original one. We were told by the innkeeper's daughter, Olympia, "Don't touch this, this or this, and NEVER touch this." So we didn't. There are 5 rooms, all beautifully furnished with antiques. There are also many pieces of art and memorabilia from Africa. The parents of the brother and sister who now run the B&B lived in Somalia for many years, running a banana plantation. They left when things became dangerous in Somalia but were able to bring back with them many of the lovely artworks they had collected over the years. Giusi, the sister, speaks fluent English as does her brother, Antonio. Giusi was a history major and also studied for a year at Boston University to learn English. I think Antonio majored in being appealing to the female gender. All of the single females wrote pages in the guest book about how wonderful Antonio was. He was great fun, but his main role is touring the wine country, and that just wasn't something we wanted to do,k so we spent more time with Giusi and her children. I have never felt more at home away from home than I felt at Villa La Sosta. We even stayed an extra day in Florence because we loved the place so much.
From Florence we drove through Tuscany abd eventually ended up in Rome for four days. We had a wonderful trip, and I am truly glad it was just the two of us. When the idea of the Cartoon Club exhibition first came up, the plan was that a group of us would travel to about 10 different cities together prior to reaching Rome. Each city had a club chapter and we were to have a dinner and give out certificates and plaques. After meeeting with this group four different times trying to plan the trip, I told my husband that I was willing to go to Rapollo with the group, but the rest of the trip would have to be on our own because the rest of the group would make me nuts and infuriate him. They either couldn't or wouldn't make a decision about anything, and it finally go to the point where I made travel arrangements for the two of us and told everyone else we'd see them when we could. I have a feeling our trip would have ended up much like yours, and to say that I would not have been pleased would be quite the understatement.
Can't wait to hear your next installment. Hang in there. Sounds like you need a little Valium instead of the Ambien! Or try a little, or a lot, of yoga breathing and guided imagery. And no, you don't imagine that you are strangling one of the Divas!
Warm regards,
Nora Paige, the gaelic gal
I don't think it can be really called bashing if the names of the people are KIA and Eiffel Tower Diva..
Just pretend this is a great fictional story of a young woman traveling with the wrong Travel companions..
Barb, I will definitely see the movie, even though I am reading the book LOL
Please lighten up. Barb's just having a bit of fun. She deserves it!
No pressure Barb but you are on a roll.
It's educational too. I'm getting some pointers for my trip next week!
kakalena
"... if one of these women ever comes across this report..'
It would be a surprise if one of these women came across this report. It doesn't sound like they did any research going into the trip the chances of them reading Fodor's is slim now.
wliwl,


You can't post twice on a thread without us thinking that you're enjoying as much as the rest of us
As my daughter would say "You think too much"
I'm just enjoying the trip report for what it is - Barbs point of view. I'm not sure I could have been that patient without my tongue bleeding from all the 'biting' it
Hi alya, I agree..and besides a bleeding tongue I would have had a splitting headache, a clenched stomach, a stiff back, new frown lines, more gray hairs, well you get the picture I am sure, LOL.
Barb, I truly do appreciate your sense of humor. I know this trip was not what you anticipated especially after all the work you went through to arrange it. Having usually been put in the position of being the "travel agent/guide" I really know how much time and energy you must have spent getting this trip together. Now continue on please........your fans are waiting. Well OK, you can get a good nights sleep but don't forget about us tomorrow alright?
Oh, no, I feel like I'm going to live out Barb's nightmare next year.
I mentioned earlier that an ex-coworker and I had talked about going to Venice next year. She & I have never travelled together, so I was a little nervous but thought it would probably be okay.
Tonight, she and some other people met for dinner & drinks. She and I mention our trip and she turns to another woman there and says, "want to come with us?" I immediately thought of Barb's trip and cringed..Oh, No, it will be having the nightmare next! I like the other woman she asked, but I don't know if I could travel with her. I worked with her for 4 years and she can be a "little tense", she even didn't speak to me for a week because I played a joke on her -- a harmless joke -- we all would play jokes on each other..... Now, I'm petrified, it's already getting out of control! I'll have to speak to her and put an end to this before it gets even worse.
Of course, I thought if all 3 of us went, we could get an apartment and it might be fun...but now I'm scared!!!
Hi LoveItaly, It's been a while since we 'talked', I hope everything is going well. x x
Grey hairs???? Nope sorry not me! but then I do have a wonderful hairdresser.
Denial? Me? Hah!
I had the opposite experience travelling with someone I didn't know very well to start with. A few years ago, I was living in London and periodically communicated with my former boss' assistant. She was an incredibly friendly and professional woman, about 18 years older than I. One day I told her in an email that I had split up with the guy for whom I'd moved to London; she replied by saying that she had just left her husband after 25 years of marriage. I immediately invited her to come and spend a week with me in my new London apartment, which had a spare room. She accepted, and we started to make plans.
Eventually, it transpired that she asked if, instead of spending a week travelling on her own in the UK (and spending a week in London with me), could she come on the guided hike I'd planned in Southern Spain; she said we could both save on the single supplements, and at least I'd have a roommate I knew. Well, of course I said yes, even though the idea gave me pause. I thought to myself, "I don't really know this woman, and it's going to be like travelling with my aunt. She's never travelled alone before, only with her husband. And she's the the kind of person who lives in high heels, is always immaculately dressed, made up and coiffed, and dresses entirely in white. I'm not sure how she's going to cope in Spain - although this was a hike where we based ourselves in a hotel."
I was completely wrong in my misgivings and had a wonderful time with her. She was such a good sport. Yes, she packed a little more than I would have packed, and yes her wardrobe did include a number of white items. Amazingly, they stayed white (I think there's a teflon-like force field around her ...) She was curious, enthusiastic, ready to try anything and fit enough to do the walk. I have a great photo of her hanging upside down in a tree picking oranges and throwing them down to the group.
Back in London, I watched her confidence at making her way round the city alone grow with each day. I visited some sights I never would have visited, while she made her own plans for most days while I worked - sometimes taking a guided tour, sometimes not. She had done her research, and had some ideas about what she wanted to see; she just asked for a little advice on how to get there. Other than orientation walk on day one in London, and some careful plans about how and where to meet, she did it on ther own. We'd have a relaxing easy meal at home or go out for dinner.
I was so lucky to have had the opportunity to travel with her and enjoy seeing London through her eyes.
Oh my, Barb, it just keeps getting worse! At least most of the Divas will never go back again to plague the good people of Italy. But can you ever go back to some of those restaurants?
Just for the other side of the record, I've traveled a lot with different groups of people: with friends, business colleagues, DH and I with other couples and with individual male and female friends. I can only think of 2 times that were unpleasant. One was not in my control, and the other I probably should have known better.
We also have a close group of about a dozen friends and many of us have traveled together in various combinations. Those have been some of the greatest trips I've ever taken. So it CAN work out!
I have a wonderful firemd that I met years ago in NY/NJ who was introduced to me before i moved to Ireland. She was they only person I knew who would go to an Indian restaurant and loved to travel. Over 10 yeras we have met up in London twice and she has visited me 3 times in ireland. I love travelling with her because she will go anywhere and have a look at anything. My favourite memory is walking up and down Portabello road in London for an entire day looking at EVERY stall and making pit stops in the pub for drinks in between. It was like being with someone I knew for years. I knew her for about 6 months through a friend before I left America and now she will be back to visit me in March and I can't wait to tour the countryside with her. SHe has turned into a good friend and I always look forward to seeing/travelling with her.
Hi lyb

>She and I mention our trip and she turns to another woman there and says, "want to come with us?" <
My suggestion is that you immediately find a reason why you have to cancel the trip with this woman.
I think in some weird way when you are in the middle of a vacation-from-hell you still keep hoping that the travel fairy will come and make everything fine. I would think that that is how Barb felt knowing that she still had eight days to go! I would be hoping that the really weird ones would turn tail and head for home early so that I could enjoy the rest of the vacation (fat chance, I know....but one always hopes).
The scope of how awful an experience like that is does not really hit you until it is over. Then (if you are a well balanced person) it turns from disastrous to hilarious.
hello Barb,
The way you describe them, your travel companions seem like they are from the seventh circle of hell. But at least you harvested some great fodder for your story! But maybe that's why you stuck it out? We can't wait to read more tales of woe.
Knowing that life is short, and vacation time is very precious (at least to me), If i come back to read that you actually continued to hang out with these ladies (?) for yet a week more, then I'll know you're a true martyr at heart.
What's with that story about not being able to command anough closet and drawerspace for your clothes and toiletries? Is that true? If you are a traveller and not a tourist as you say, and over fifty years old, you must know how to negotiate this kind of thing.
As a fellow traveller over fifty, I like solo travel, but I've had a few travel roommates in my time, and I know I would put up with it for not more than five minutes before I found a nice way of getting my share of a shared space.
Give us more, this is fascinating!
What's with that story about not being able to command anough closet and drawerspace for your clothes and toiletries?
Blame the victim? Gah! : D All the woman did was go on vacation with the kindest of intentions.
Barb I hope you can finish the story before the villagers come for you with torches. It is almost Halloween you know. ; )
Barb -

This story is so great I'm printing it as it happens for my husband...he rarely is on the computer. Anyway, he loves your writing style and will certainly be your #1 fan when he reads your favorite dish is the bucatini...his as well.. so much so I have found bucatini here at home to make!!
Anticipating the next installment!
"They had a really good lunch apparently right across from the Vatican. D said this real nice man was standing in the door asking people to come on in. They had pizza that didn’t have that thin crust like everywhere else and it was only 5 E. I don’t say a word."
LOL!!!
my favorite part is when you said that you have 8 more days to go. im selfish and can't wait to read about the next 8 days!!
I can't believe I just sat and read this entire 201-response post in one sitting - couldn't stop! I need the next chapters!!!
Barb - I hope you've recovered somewhat by now, but better have another glass of wine just to be sure. What a trip! I feel guilty for enjoying the report so much when you were, rightfully so, in agony. Just remember, your next trip will be so much better.
This is great. It would make a great movie. I am going to Chicago for a "girl friend" weekend in December and now I'm thinking "am I crazy" because I know at least one in the group has tendencies like these divas.
Looking forward to the next installment.
"What's with that story about not being able to command anough closet and drawerspace for your clothes and toiletries? "
"Blame the victim? Gah! : D All the woman did was go on vacation with the kindest of intentions."
I agree-it appears that all these other women really did victimize Barb terribly, who seems like a nice person and a talented writer as well.
They must have a nightmare to be around. I do feel so sorry for her, and apologize for my awful insensitivity in asking why she didn't separate from them earlier.
Barb, I hope you are able to carve out a better experience for yourself next time with these lessons you learned.
Absolutely no disrespect to any other Fodorites, but this is possibly the best trip report I have read here. Thank you so much for the honest entertainment Barb!
Barb, I can so relate! I went on a trip last year with 3 other women. It was to one of my favorite destinations, but when they begged me to go this year, I came up with so many excuses it would make your head spin.
These women acted as if they were incapable of finding their gate at an airport, finding their luggage at baggage claim, finding a taxi stand, making a dinner reservation. It drove me insane! To top it off, all they wanted to do was shop!
I'm sorry that you had to endure this torture, but I have to say it does make fascinating reading!
Barb, this is fantastic - thank you so much, & I hope it's making you feel better ! Can't wait for the rest.
Have a good weekend.
Barb, which of these women came closest to being an actual friend and ally? Sad to think you couldn't be comfortable with even one of the Divas, but I admit, they sound like a weird collection.
HKP-I must admit, I am wondering the same thing, even though I am now very afraid to say so.
Reminds of a trip to the UP. DH without asking me invited a friend of his & his wife, who I only knew briefly. This was my trip from hell. Being my only vacation of the year I wanted to relax, hike and enjoy time away for the two of us. DH & his friend played a lot, which left me to entertain friends wife. After a couple of days of entertaining her, I need time alone. This set her off on a pouting trip & the rest of the trip was ruined. I had told her up front that this was my only trip of the year & I enjoyed hiking & alone time. To appease her we took her on two or three side trips, but she was like the exorcist. My trip was ruined & I could have killed DH.
I hope you understand that I am not bashing the Divas. I really debated about doing this report, or if I did to sugar coat it and just talk about what we did and where we ate and then I thought no. The real purpose of this board, I hope, is to inform other travellers about hidden dangers, good travel tips, etc. While all this was happening to me, I kept thinking absolutely no one is going to believe this really happened, but if it can happen to me, it could happen to someone else too. So.. this is my way of hopefully helping others to possibly prevent a similiar sitation. We (the Divas) are all still talking to each other, even D. Will I ever travel with any of them again, absolutely not. So, on to Sorrento...
It was great to see our limo driver with my name on his little card, he was all smiles and was a welcoming face. He was cute and very sweet. We were all very impressed with the limo/van, which looked new and had aircon and a drop down screen on which he had a video of Sorrento accompanied by music. Lovely introduction to the coast I thought. KIA, Eiffel and Scared are in the very back seat and D is in the front beside the driver. Poor guy, because she is now talking his ear off. KIA taps me on the shoulder and says that they can’t hear the guide. I try to explain that he is not a guide, just our driver. What did she expect for 90 E. But I hear her complaining to the others. Now I’m hearing D screach and the woops which usually follows it. I’m wondering what this man must be thinking.
We arrive at the Lorelei and everyone is ooing and ahing. It is truly a beautiful setting. Unfortunately, they all gave me their money and I am now paying the driver and thanking him as I watch them all hurry into the hotel. Consequently, I did not get the corner room which I had been hoping for, but my and D’s room did have a lovely little balcony with jaw dropping view. I could not help but notice that the two twin beds were about 6” apart and I’m really worried. KIA and J’s room is on the second floor with one side facing the street and the other side has a huge terrace and faces the side with a lovely view of the whole town and the Bay of Naples. I’m trying to hide my disappointment. J notices and tells me that maybe they will switch with D and me after 4 days, so we can enjoy the terrace too. I’m thinking this is really only fair, but I would not have asked her to do this. Eiffel Tower and Scared’s room is right next to ours and almost identical – bathroom is a little smaller. They hate it. Eiffel goes out and talks to the owner, who is not pleased and can’t understand why they don’t’ like it. The two young men who helped the Divas bring in their bags are now standing there with hands out, literally. One says 50 should be ok. D is ignoring them. Even though I brought my own bag in, I hand him 1E. He looks stunned and laughs, by this time, D has gone back out to the lobby and I give him 1 more euro. He is talking the other guy and I don’t understand what he is saying, but I know he’s not telling him what a generous, lovely woman I am. D comes back in and starts unpacking. I told her I wanted half the hangers, half the wardrobe and two of the four drawers and I immediately go into the bathroom and claim half the shelf and stake my claim on one of the towel racks. I think this might be a good opportunity for me to sneak away, knowing it will take D at least an hour to unpack and settle in. I wanted to go to Fauno’s Bar to call SeaUrchin and wish her a happy b’day and fill her in on what has been happening. I give directions to KIA and J on how to get there and we agree to meet in an hour. Walking down there, I’m thinking, maybe I will take the room next door if Eiffel and Scared move out and I’m glad I had not unpacked yet. I know this will cost me much more, but at this point it seems the only way to perhaps salvage what’s left of this vacation and maybe start enjoying myself. D, J and KIA meet me at Fauno’s and tell me that Eiffel has found another room at the Lorelei for one night and then she and Scared were moving out and finding another hotel for the rest of the time. They will meet us back at the hotel for dinner.
So…. can you believe this one – when we get back to the room, D says to me “Have I done something to upset you? you don’t seem like you want to be here with me”. Holy cow!! yah think!! I very calmly, picking just the right words, say to her “Well maybe it’s just because of the fact that I live alone, and mostly travel alone, that your constant talking is just a little unnerving to me”. She tells me that she is aware she talks too much, other people have told her this and she assures me that she will give me some space and then she tells me how much this trip means to her. Awww gee. She says if she starts talking too much to just tell her. I’m thinking, ok, maybe this might possibly work out. I’ll just be honest with her.
Dinner was hilarious – Eiffel and Scared are celebrating because they have found a great triple room at the Hotel Corso and yes, Eiffel has found the “shopping street” and their hotel is right on it!! She has found paradise. She orders wine!! Her special outfit for the evening is an orange tank w/matching orange jacket, black pants with orange cuffs, dangly orange earrings that look a little like pumpkins, hmm, maybe not, with lipstick and nail polish to match. KIA who can’t eat after 6:00 pm apparently stopped at the store on the way back to the hotel and bought some yogurt and an apple, so she’s not ordering anything but tea. I order calamari and a salad – D has strangely started ordering whatever I order and Eiffel orders a seafood salad. My calamari was ok, but Eiffel’s salad has now arrived and she’s staring at in disbelief. It’s various pieces of rather raw looking squid, octopus, little tiny intact fish on a bed of greens, not lettuce. She is speechless. She’s trying to get the young waiters attention – the same guy with his hand out earlier – She waves and says “Sin Your”. She says, where is the salad and where is the seafood – I can’t eat this!! He just shrugs and I think pretends he does not understand her and then UNBELIEVABLY, KIA says she’ll take it. We are all just staring at KIA. Eiffel orders lasagna.
Everyone seems to be in a good mood, and amazingly not tired, so we walk into town and down the shopping street and even wave at the web cam, well I did. By the time we got back to the hotel, I was tired, but I just wanted to sit on the little balcony, sip some limoncella I had bought on the shopping street and write in my journal. I had Andrea Bocelli playing in the background. D came out of the bathroom dressed for bed and I thought oh good. No… she comes out and starts talking. I thought I would just let her go on for a few minutes. She starts talking about how J has had such a good life, and no one really knows how hard she’s had it over the years. How North Americans have no idea, blah, blah, blah, and oh by the way did I ever tell you about the time in the South of France – gag!! I said D, I need some time here, would you like something to help you sleep. I actually gave her an Ambian and then I tip toed around the room, periodically peeking at her to see if she was asleep. I had this flashback of when the my children were small and I would tip toe around until they fell asleep and then peek in on them to see how they were.
With my stomach in knots, I take an Ambian too and go to bed.
Ira,
>>My suggestion is that you immediately find a reason why you have to cancel the trip with this woman.<<
That was exactly my thought as I was driving home after dinner. I want to return to Venice because I've only been there for 1 1/2 day and I want to explore it and really soak in the city. I'm afraid that if I'm frustrated by travel companions it's going to ruin Venice for me.....now, I've got to think of good reasons...luckily I have a year before this trip, but panic sure set in yesterday...especially after I'd been reading Barb all day.
So… the next morning we are in the breakfast room, eating our hard roll and lukewarm coffee – Scared, D and I are at one table and KIA and J are at another. Eiffel has not come down yet. Scared is saying that Eiffel really felt like she needed to have a room of her own and that Scared respected her feelings and then I don’t know how, or why, but it just came blurting out of my mouth – “I need to have my own room too”. D has this shocked look on her face, everyone is looking at me. I say to D, it’s not you, it’s me” – yah right!! Then she starts crying and says she knew she shouldn’t have come on this trip. She accused me of lying to her, blah blah, and that she couldn’t afford to pay for the room by herself. She had not counted on that and did not have enough money. The other guests are now starting to talk amongst themselves and those irritating waiters are also staring. J says, let’s go talk about this outside, actually D, J and I go to a little side parlor off the lobby. D is now sobbing and I’m trying to explain to her why – she’s saying between sobs, “I tried to give you your space”. I went out to talk to the owner to see if there were any other rooms, no, she had already booked Eiffel and Scared’s rooms. I tell D that I will go try to find her another hotel and she stops crying and states emphatically that she’s not moving out of that room – it is hers!! The rest of the Divas have now joined us. I whisper to J, please switch rooms with me – she said she just doesn’t think she can. I literally cannot believe this is happening – it’s a true nightmare. So… I just walk out – I leave them all behind and as I’m walking down the street, I can hear D sobbing and I hear Eiffel saying to Scared, we need to get our stuff and move, now.
Love the story so far! I am not getting a thing done at work. But, as I read it, I can't believe you are all 50-somethings! It just reminds me of some of the crap that would go down on Spring Break. You would think rooming with 6 of your sorority sisters would be easy! Nope! Drama Drama Drama. Every freaking year! I definitely cannot travel with more than one person now (unless it is my family),
Oh,Oh, The Spit has hit the fan!!!
I rarely post anything on this web site, but can't resist this.
WHAT KIND OF FRIEND ARE YOU BARB???
You have violated the very fundamental principle of being a friend - TRUST.
You, Barb, are a BACK-STABBER.
While your on-line "friends" may be amused, I think it is clear that your travelling companions probably have their own horror stories to tell.
Why don't you suggest that they chime in with their version of events?
Oh My Gosh!
Well, I do have to say that if I hadn't already ditched the divas at this point (and I probably would have), I would SO be outta there right about now!!
karen Rodriguez,

I have some left over Xanax for a couple of years ago...would you like one? I think you may need it....or are you of the Divas?
for anyone else who is thinking of getting upset with Barb....she is telling HER side of the trip...this is nto a deposition where everyone needs to tell their side of the story....this is BARB'S STORY!! and a scary one I might add.

I think that now we all know who NOT to travel with....
How many more days of this trip are there?
Do your friends check with website, Barb?
My what a story!!! This is better than reading Greek's, tragic soap opera..

I admire your patience and fortitude toward your traveling companions.
However Barb,by asking to have your private room you put your friend D in a monetary dilemma, perhaps she had a limited budget and could not afford to pay the full price ..you should have offered to pay your share of the room even if you switched to another.
waiting for the next chapter...
This reminded me to post my story about taking elderly parents on a cruise. You will find my story on the Cruise Forum. At least the Divas knew they were in Italy. My father-in-law kept asking which part of the building we were in.
Kismetchimera - that's exactly what I do, I would never dream of making her pay the whole thing. That's part of the dilemma of this whole fiasco. I really could not afford my own room, plus my half of her room too... stay tuned for the solution. BTW - I still have 7 more days to go, but I'm thinking I might shorten it up a little. It's hard because something happens each and every day. The worst is almost over though. For those who think I am bad-mouthing the Divas - as I said, I thought long and hard about doing this report. If I thought for one minute that they would be reading it, I certainly would not have done it. As I said earlier, when I almost begged them to read Fodors and they didn't, I doubt very seriously they are reading it now. If they do, well, the truth hurts I guess, but maybe they will be able to laugh at themselves a little and maybe their next trip will be different. As far as D is concerned -I have known her since I was 14. I care for her and I think she needs help. If she somehow reads this, hopefully she will know that no one knows who I am talking about, except her.
I was thinking of this thread for some time... debating whether to post or not, to wait till the end of this trip description or not...
I keep comparing this report to SharonG's trio of terror where everything was described in good humor and with good intentions. This report is so upsettingly different!
Somewhere in the beginning Barb said she couldn't say anything to the Divas because her son told her not to say anything what may destroy a friendship.
Does this mean her son knows something about her? She is mean? Some unpleasant argument happened before? I think he knew what and who he was talking about, and these were not the Divas but Barb.
Yes, it's not easy to travel with a mentally ill person, if this is what D is, especially if you don't know in advance. But come on, was it D who had some stomach problems somewhere in the beginning of this "report" and got no sympathy from Barb? How can you foresee food or drink poisoning?
I think SusanP (or who was that Fodorite she was supposed to meet) is fortunate not to meet Barb. Just imagine, you look forward to a dinner with a fellow Fodorite, and instead of exchanging the ooohs and aaaahs about Italy, you get a whining Barb! Try to enjoy a meal at that conversation!
And God forbid any of the Divas produces a tour book! How can any of those women question Barb's authority?
I still wonder why this trip was not cancelled before it even started? Financial reasons? Obligation? Or was Barb too sure she'll keep them under her thumb?
Saint Barb (can I call you that?), I believe the law does allow for premeditated murder in these circumstances.
It looks to me like they were expecting you to be a professional tour guide -- to make every last arrangement, know all the details, all the best places to eat, etc. I played that role once. Never again (altough mine story is not as horrific as yours). If somehow I am roped into it again, it will be with the understanding that I am going where and when I want to go. Anyone who wants to join me is welcome. Otherwise, do your own homework.
And I totally share the "your own room" philosophy. Unless I'm on the trip with my SO, I have to have my own room. I'm too sensitive to others' habits such as snoring to tolerate a room mate, added cost be damned. Gotta have my naked time.
Well, good lord. I was quietly reading this thread with great interest and enjoying Barbs writing, when all of a sudden a Barb bashing has errupted. I hope you all can just hold your tongue until she is done, for I fear poor Barb will stop writing. Don't ruin it for the rest of us, ok?
Teri
>>I fear poor Barb will stop writing<<
No, no...Barb keep going...it's slow at work at you are my entertainment!!!!!
that's what i'm worried about too- if you attack barb she might decide just to stop and i NEED to find out what happens- i'm loving it!
I can tell you we spoke almost every day while she was on her trip and she had the best of intentions with this group. She, herself, was close to tears at times on the phone. She was not taking this lightly and was truely trying to help these women have a good time or at least salvage what they could of the trip.
Alot of what is happening I am finding out for the first time myself as alot of times she "couldn't talk" about it.
Hmmm... sounds like a few posters on this thread are relating - perhaps a little too closely - to the Divas.
There's a lot to be learned by this story. Keep it up, Barb.
Hi lyb

>>My suggestion is that you immediately find a reason why you have to cancel the trip with this woman.<<
> I've got to think of good reasons...luckily I have a year before this trip, ....<
I suggest that you think of a good reason STAT. The longer you let the other person think that the two of you are going to Venice, the worse it will be.
You might want to consider something along these lines: "I'm very sorry, but because I like you so much I agreed to sharing a visit without thinking.
I know that I am a solo traveler. I can't plan ahead because I tend to do things on the spur of the moment and I'm afraid that I would ruin your visit.
Perhaps you and xxx can plan a trip to Italy together".
Best of luck.
Hi Barb,

Even though we are now in the tragic depths of this Shakespearean drama, I know that the White Flag is up and all will end well.
Please continue the report and don't let those who are taking your story too seriously drive you away.
Barb, I understand you perfectly, and can personally relate to your feelings. I had once an one and only Diva.. And I must tell you that I dropped her in the middle of the trip.
I regret for taking her with me ( wrong, wrong decision..) but not for letting her on her own.
The good thing is that she learned how to travel and had made subsequent trips on her own, as no one on earth would take her as a trip companion. I was the only one to make such a big mistake. Well, live and learn, even if it is the bad way.
Please, don't stop. I've been anxiously waiting for the next installment!!!
Fauna: I am really sorry you feel that way – maybe you should stop reading it.
I just start walking away. My ears are ringing and I can feel my BP rising. I can hardly breath. I walk down to the Marina. I’m breathing in the fresh air, trying to calm down and trying very hard not to cry. I sit and watch all the happy tourists getting on boats to Capri, Naples or wherever. I wish I was part of their groups. I look up and see this beautiful old bright red hotel – Il Faro. I remember reading about that on Fodors. I think how wonderful it would be to be staying there, looking out to sea. I walk back up the hill and stop by the Foreigners Club, picking up some bus and ferry schedules. Even though it is only 11:00 a.m., I order a glass of vino and sit for awhile. I am mad I don’t have my journal, it’s a miracle I had my purse with me when I walked out of the Lorelei.
When I feel calm enough, I walk back to the Lorelei to face the music. I have decided that I will ask J once more if she will switch with me and I will room with KIA, or if KIA will switch with me. If not, I will find another hotel and see if maybe J will share the expense for my half of D's room and I could pay her back or whatever. There is no one around when I get back, but there’s a note on my bed that says to meet J and KIA at Fauno’s at 1:00. I know I can’t stay in this room, so I pack my suitcase leaving it in the room and walk to Fauno’s. Both KIA and J say they are really sorry, but there is no way they will room with D, but KIA has gone to the tourist office and has found a pensione not far from the Lorelei that’s only 40 E a nite and we should go see what it’s like. She offers to take it and I can room with J. Apparently Eiffel has taken D shopping, ha. Gotta love Eiffel.
We visit the Pensione Mara. It’s like walking into Grandma’s house, except Grandma smokes and speaks Italian. The room is large, basic and for some reason, I love it – I want it!! So we rush back over to the Lorelei, pick up my stuff and I move into the Pensione Mara. I’m feeling better already. The people at Lorelei are very confused about what’s going on. We agree to all meet at 6:00 at Fauno’s.
I pull up the metal screen on the one window and there is a brick wall, oh well, it has some lovely little flowers growing out of it. I don’t care – it’s my brick wall. I completely unpack and set up all my stuff just like I want it. Just for a moment I sit on the bed – looking at my brick wall and I’m thinking how ironic it is that after all the planning, feeling so ecstatic that I got us all into the Lorelei – and here I am sitting in this 40 E night flea bag and D is sitting on that cute little balcony with that awesome seaview. But that’s life and I’m for the first time in days, starting to relax. I do notice that there are no towels, except two very thin cotton tea towels in the bathroom and no soap. I decide I will go the Standa, buy some real towels, which I can use at the beach or on Ischia and some lemon soap, which hopefully will take away a little of that smoke smell, which I’m starting to notice. The toilet has not been cleaned so I find a use for my antibacterial wipes which I’ve been carting around with me and which I use on the drinking glass that hasn’t been cleaned either. I turn on Dido and get dressed to meet the Divas.
I'm glad you got away.
How much were the rooms at Lorelei (out of curiosity)?
I think that the Divas should have been more accommodating in terms of switching roommates. That seems fair given the situation.
Oh, Barb, I do feel for you! Obviously, this is a topic with which Fodorites can identify!
My TCFH story -- 4 people, 2 who are close, long time friends but first time to travel together, and the TCFH unknown to me before the trip. We did have a pre-trip lunch to talk about towns to visit and sights to see. She seemed like a nice enough person. NOT!
This woman was the TCFH and the Ugly American rolled into one. Made the Divas look like angels. She could not be bothered to learn the French coinage so she would hold out a hand full of change to cashiers and taxi drivers and make them pick their pay out of her hand. Not just rude, but stupid too. She would ask questions in English with no attempt at so much as a single French word. When the person either didn’t understand, or pretended not to, she would keeping repeating her question -- more LOUDLY each time.
Upon check in at our Paris hotel, she took two hours to “freshen up” while we waited for her. Then,in spite of our warning not to plug her American curling iron into the socket, she said, “oh, it will work” and proceeded to blow out the electricity on the entire floor of the hotel. We left and told her where we were going.
The next day she requested an iron and ironing board from housekeeping. It took a whole 15 minutes for them to bring it to our room and she actually yelled at the maid for taking so long!
She packed at least 6 pairs of high fashion, high heeled shoes and was crippled by blisters before the end of the first day. Then she refused to walk anywhere because her feet hurt. This woman went to Paris for the first time and didn’t want to see the Eifel Tower, Notre Dame, the Louve, the gardens, or do a Seine River trip. But that’s her choice. I’m not sure what she did see.
Upon check in at our Cannes hotel, she was unhappy that, once again, the room she was sharing was made up with pushed-together twins. She also thought the room was “shabby” which it wasn’t, really. She marched down to the front desk and since housekeeping was not available at that instant to re-make the beds, she demanded that the hotel manager, who was home ill, be summoned to do something about it. We could have simply traded rooms with her, but she was not going to accept that simple solution.
The last hotel we checked into had also made the mistake of pushing the beds together. As soon as the door opened and she saw this, she actually threw her luggage DOWN THE HALL and stomped down the hall after it to go yell at the front desk.
By the time we flew home, no one was speaking to her. Thank goodness she wasn’t a friend of mine!
On the way to Fauno’s I meet J, who is white-faced and heading back to Lorelei because she thinks she is going to throw up and has a horrible migraine. I wonder if it’s from all the stress of the day. The Divas are waiting for me. D is sitting there smiling and shows me the earrings that Eiffel bought her. She’s like a little kid. I tell her they are beautiful. She is acting like absolutely nothing has happened. The Divas are asking me for my recommendation of a good place to eat dinner. I know lots of nice places, but I know I can’t face another Diva chaotic dinner, so I tell them about a place that’s good. I know it’s touristy, but I know they won’t care and will probably enjoy it much more than some of the nicer places. And I’m right. Eiffel has fish and chips with ketchup, KIA has already had some yogurt and orders tea and D orders the same thing as me, an omelet because I still have not regained my appetite and then D orders ½ ltr of wine and starts making toasts. I don’t care, let her drink as much as she wants, I have my own room, ha ha. I do overhear Eiffel telling KIA that she gets to sit beside D tomorrow for dinner.
The Standa is closed so I end up buying three souvenir Sorrento tea towels and a lemon soap for my room and head back to the Pensione Mara for a good nights sleep. Little do I know. ..
I'm glad you were able to get a different room and I do hope it helped the situation! Please - just one more Friday tidbit before the weekend!!!
Oh Dayle you had me laughing, although I know from experience it was not funny at the time. Where do these people come from!! Do they never read a book, or watch a movie - do they have absolutely no curiosity about the world?? It's just beyond me why they even want to travel.
I can really feel for Barb, but for D too. I went on a trip with a group of 6 friends, two each to a room. My roommate didn't like dry weather (she though it would age her skin) so every night she would soak EVERY SINGLE TOWEL in water and hang them around the room to add humidity. Every night after my shower, I had to use my shirt or other piece of clothing as a towel. I even tried hiding fresh towels in hope that she wouldn't find them. She didn't stop even when I asked her to. Apparently, she didn't feel the need to take a shower every night (which only added to the problem)!
She also insisted that everyone should eat at the same place so we can be "together." But she is a vegetarian, and didn't trust "regular" restaurants to have a wide enough selection for her, so we ate at the SAME vegetarian restuarant every night. I suggested we go someplaace else or split up, and she immediately started crying to get sympathy from the others, then threatened to move out to her own room. That would have made me stuck because I could not afford a room of my own (which is why I do sympathize with "D"). She also made negative racial comments about my then-boyfriend (future husband) that angered me to no end. She considered it "sisterly advice."
But I have to say the rest of the group (other then the TCFH) was pretty cool, especially about money. It didn't matter if one treated another to lunch, or paid the taxi themselves. Everyone thought that over two weeks, it all kinda evens out. We just estimated our costs and kicked in what we thought we owed - everyone always put in too much rather than not enough (the extra was used to buy ice cream). So that part was fine.
I'm glad you were able to get your own room, which probably was key in preserving what sanity and civility you had left.
On my trip with the TCFH, the 4 of us shared quads for the first week and a half in Italy. Crazy, I know. It actually wasn't as bad as it sounds - we were in apartment type rooms (the type with 2 adjoining bedrooms) at all places - but, still.
I was supposed to share rooms with the TCFH for the remaining week and a half in Paris and London. Point blank I told my other travel companions that I could not share a room with TCFH. Neither of them were wanting to room with her, either.
The tension between TCFH and I got to be so high that finally one of my other travel companions reluctantly agreed to room with TCFH.
When TCFH found out about the switch, she was very upset. I understand her feelings were probably hurt, but I know I was getting on her nerves as much as she was getting on mine.
At any rate, it was the ability to go to my room for some time away from TCFH that enabled me to finish the trip without completely losing my cool.
Barb, I am so sorry that you came away from a trip in one of the most beautiful countries in the world with only bitter memories. You obviously wish you had just stayed home; perhaps that would have been best in this case. Thank goodness you had lots of pills to help you stay rested and good-humored! Well, at least now you know for certain that traveling with only yourself as company is a lot less stressful and much more pleasurable than having to try to contend with other people's idiosyncrasies. You must feel very proud that you can now look back and just laugh at the whole situation! Thanks for sharing – you've made a lot of new internet friends – who needs real ones? Especially such weirdos, huh?
As they say, "With friends like this who needs enemies?" Shame on you for this endless tirade. If you had spent a fraction of the time enjoying Rome that you spent battling your traveling companions, maybe you would have come home with trip memories instead of this dirty, rotten and, obviously, greatly embelished rat-out story about your friends. And, I'm shocked at the frenzied state of usually mature and gracious posters. I can picture you all at the gladiators! More! More!
Oh Barb, I am glad you are still on speaking terms with the Divas.
In case you exchange gifts with each of them for the holidays, have I got the perfect gift-giving suggestion!
At the mall today, one of the stores is carrying "Diva" pillows - yes, ladies, that's right. They're about 8 inches square, black, with "Diva" embroidered across the top, and then there is a space to insert a 4x6 photograph.
Certainly you must have had a photo of all of you together that you could insert.
If you're interested, I'll be glad to order you a half dozen!!
wetravel
Apparently not shocked enough to not read every thread.
Hmmm...it's my personal theory that those who are bashing Barb for being a bad friend have never had an experience with TCFH. One is sometimes "stuck," and if Barb were really such a terrible friend, she would have abandoned this group on Day One.
FWIW, Barb has been to Italy before and loves it. She was hoping to share the experience with friends and generously put a lot of thought and planning into doing so. Unfortunately, people often value such effort at the price they pay for it. When it's free, it's sometimes very much taken for granted.
So Barb comes here to vent a little to a group she knows will sympathize, and in the process she amuse us all endlessly. The Divas are no more identifiable to any of us than are any of the other TCFH that many of us have written about on this thread. Aren't we all then equally guilty?
(Let me be the first to stand up and say, "I am Spartacus.")
I to travel solo. A friend of mine wants to join me the next time I go. By luck he still hasn't gotten a passport.
Before he got married, we took a lot of parting road trips. Now that he is divorced, he wants to join me on trips again. One thing that we always did is go our own way whenever we wanted to. This is not possible every day, especially with him never being overseas before.
I feel that he would cause a lot of grief on overseas trips. McDonalds for breakfast, lunch, more fast food for dinner (everyday). Hurry, hurry, and then complain about being tired. Spend $135 for a good room, no way; complain non-stop about the $80 room ok. Spend 20% more on edible food, no; take 10 antacids a day, ok.
Barb,
Like you, I live alone. I like to be able to do what I want when I want to. I think I'd have a hard time with a roommate who wanted to talk or do stuff together when I wanted to relax, journal or enjoy the view.
Maybe D was trying to reach out to you at those times because to her, look out and enjoying the view is a good time to talk.
I know I get really iriated when in the morning I'm trying to read the newspaper (esp. if I'm on the comics page) and someone want to talk to me. To others, it seems ok to interrupt reading, while I want to bash them over the head with the paper.
Even though you told her you need personal time to jouranl, sometimes you have to mention this a few (dozen?) times before it clicks.
I'm also concerned with her alcohol consumption. Maybe it was a coping device, maybe she has a problem with it.
Marilyn, you made me laugh! You are such a treasure!
I get a phone call from SeaUrchin’s friend S who tells me that if I want, he can arrange with a friend of his to take the group down the coast and then up to Taglietelle’s for dinner and he would only charge 25E each. I know this is a good price, so I tell him I will ask the Divas and let him know. I ask him if he knows about this place I am staying and if it is safe. When I came back it was very noisy and lots more activity than when I checked in. He said it was safe, but to lock the door. He can't believe I've moved out of the Lorelei and says how sorry he is for what is happening. He's a very sweet man. I had been having trouble with the lock and Nonna had to unlock it for me when I came back and when I locked it from the inside, I could not get it open. I banged on the door until Nonna came and unlocked it. So, I pushed my suitcase and a chair in front of the door. I now am hearing what sounds like an old cat, mewing under or very close to my window. Sure hoped that would stop soon. It doesn’t, but I’m able to fall asleep finally. At about 5:00 a.m. I am jolted awake by the sounds of people talking in my bathroom. A man in a British accent is telling Margaret that he will use the toilet first and then she can take her shower, she says yes, Howard. And, yes, I do hear Howard on the toilet!! Ewww Then Margaret is saying from the shower, Howard the water pressure is much better than it was yesterday. I fumble for the light and slowly open the bathroom door. I hear Margaret humming in the shower. I look up and there where the wall meets the ceiling is about a 3 ft x 3 ft. wide gap, which if I had a ladder would look directly into Margaret’s shower. I can’t believe this! I happen to look in the mirror and I have three huge red bumps on my face and one on my eyelid that looks scary. I am really hoping it’s just mosquitos. It’s too early to get up, so I return to bed just in time to start smelling this horrid, putrid smell wafting in through the window. It smells like burning garbage. My eyes and nose are starting to burn. Good Lord! how am I going to stay here for the next six nights. I jump up and start packing. I have NEVER packed so fast in my entire life. When I am sure Margaret and Howard have left their room, I get into the shower. Well if this is good water pressure I can’t even begin to imagine what bad is. There is a lukewarm dribble coming out. I decide to take a sponge bath and use my Sorrento tea towels and lemon soap.
Finally, it’s 8:00 a.m. and I go down the hall to Nonna’s room and tell her that I am really sorry, but I just can’t stay there. She seems honestly disappointed. So, I leave my suitcase in the room, she has to lock the door for me and I’m off to the Lorelei to let the Divas know I have to move.
The people at the Lorelei are really confused when they see me in the breakfast room – well I am paying for half of the damn room, the least they can do is give me a hard roll and warm coffee. J is feeling better and says she will help me move my things back to the Lorelei. D very kindly, ha, says I can stash my suitcase in “her” room if I want. Now the staff at the Lorelei are really scratching their heads. I am on the verge of tears and now I feel like I am going to throw up. Stay tuned, it does get better..
"Spend $135 for a good room, no way; complain non-stop about the $80 room ok. Spend 20% more on edible food, no; take 10 antacids a day, ok."
That's funny. On a trip to Turkey my travel partner (who was fine in every other way) was hyper-cost conscious. We had a very nice room in Istanbul for $25 pp/night. By chance she overheard someone who said they had a room somewhere for $15 pp/night. So, my travel partner proposed spending a gloriously sunny May afternoon in Istanbul searching for this place. I balked and she got annoyed.
Later in the trip I balked at a 10-hour bus ride from Ephesus back to Istanbul and suggested instead the 1-hour flight from Izmir for only $50 more. "Spend money to save time," I said. "No," she said. "See ya," I said. "Wait for me!" she said.
Hi lyb, I agree with Ira. If you are having second thoughts about going to Venice with your friend in a year and do not want to travel with her or the other person she invited to join you I would advise her immediately.
The sooner you do this the easier it will be. I had a similar situation and after two days of thinking contacted the friend that invited herself to go to Italy with me. I tried to be very gentle and loving but I told her that to be honest I did not believe she would enjoy herself as I would not want to spend every moment in museums, that I would be spending a lot of time with my friends in Italy and we often just sat and talked, enjoying coffee and/or wine and sometimes even a few cigarettes. My friend does not like coffee, wine and hates cigarette smoke. She of course could have ordered tea or whatever but I could hardly tell my Italian friends they could not smoke, LOL. I explained this to her. There was sort of dead silence. I then said that as far as sharing hotel rooms that I was use to my own personal space, often went to bed very late and tended to get up early in the morning. This friend goes to bed very early and likes to sleep in real late unless she has to go to work.
Anyway, I thought about would I would say before I had the conversation with her. I thought of everything I knew that she would not enjoy about the trip. And I had felt, rightfully so as it turned out, that her big reason for wanting to go with me was to have someone pay half the hotel room costs.
So although I am sure she was dissapointed the conversation went well considering everything. And thankfully we are still friends.
I kind of relate it to the old saying it is better to break an engagement then go ahead with the wedding not wanting to hurt the other persons feelings and then end up divorced later.
Best wishes to you.
Barb, I know from a mutual friend what a great person you are. I am so sorry you had this special time in Italy ruined. I wish you many more beautiful and relaxing trips to Italy.
Thanks Marilyn, you really hit the nail on the head.
ncgrrl: I know what you mean about the talking, but honestly you would have had to have been there to know this wasn't just normal conversation. This was way beyond that. She does have a problem, we all know that now. Evidenced by the fact that no one else wanted to sit beside for dinner, let alone room with her.
Barb, Don't let the "holier than thou" posters get to you. Like you said earlier, if this report offends you, don't read it!
You put up with a lot of sh..! Go ahead and tell your story. If these women were self sufficient and understood they were a part of group and not solo travelers, your report would be a different read. Group traveling is a different dynamic and not everyone realizes that.
Looking forward to hearing the rest of your story.
Gail
So sorry, Barb, that your investment of time and money didn't have a great return. I don't know if I could be philosophical about that part, because I would feel so annoyed at having "wasted" time and money just for trying hard to be so helpful!
Hi WillTravel, that is how I am feeling for Barb. Planning a trip takes time. Can you imagine how much time and energy it took to plan this trip for 5 other people? And most of us do not have unlimited time and money for trips either. So having all of this happen would be so frutrating and heartbreaking for me. I truly would not have the great sense of humor that Barb displays in her trip report. Take care.
I love your story...more, please!
I don't want to hijack this thread, but it has me thinking about someone I once travelled with in Spain and France. This person, who was a companion of a dear friend of mine, didn't enjoy wine and was so 'afraid' of the food (and we were eating in excellent restaurants) only ate roasted or broiled chicken. That wasn't the bad part - the bad part was the incessant complaining about the bad dining in Spain and France!
I've found going out with a bunch of women for only a night, trying. Who wants to go where, who doesn't want to do this, who will not put their share in the pot, who will want seperate checks, and on and on.
You weren't the one to ask D to go with you? and considering what she was like, I'm thinking maybe you actually didn't spend a lot of time with her before your trip? I had a friend that I traveled with once a year. We would make a long weekend trip down to SF. We did this for three years and had a wonderful time and then the last trip, it was all different. She was becoming very paranoid, every time we were to leave the room she would have to go back in three and four times to check things. She yelled at me when we went out to the beach because I didn't want to walk in the ocean, so consequently she had wet jeans (like roll your pant legs up? duh) and sand everywhere, and I didn't. Anyway, on the drive back to Reno the air was so thick you could cut it with a knife. It was awful, I just can't describe. Anyway, that was the end. I didn't actually end it, she did and I was glad. But, at the same time, I was very willing to look at myself to see what I did or said or whatever..I'm a big girl, I can take it...but she never would say, and I STILL can't figure it out. People change over the years and I guess D has problems that you weren't aware of..or you really don't see them as they are until you spend an exteneded amount of time with them...familiarity DOES sometimes breed contempt. Barb, will it help at all if I assure you that sometime you will sit back and laugh at all this? NOT!!! Well, I, along with the others, are waiting for the next installment.
Barb: While I'm sure the Divas have their point of view (always taught my students that books themselves have front, backs, and four other sides), I am totally would go with your perspective.
Reason? Most people on this site are the planners. We think it is our responsibility to ourselves, our friends, our families to be informed. We feel we are representing our countries. Moreover, we feel it is our responsibility (and that shines through your report) to represent the feelings of other people in other countries to our countrymen.
You can be faulted with one thing, Barb. You did not give yourself permission to... (purposely open-ended). That's something most of us never learn, and thank goodness, it won't be your problem in the future!
Keep writing. Your angst is our angst.
This really is a spellbinding report. It just doesn't let up, does it? All the grief from the divas, and then to wake up with red bumps on your face!
We need to see you through this trip to the bitter end. What are friends for, after all?
Barb - I'm glad you're not paying any attention to the people who feel the need to talk bad about you. Like someone else said, if they don't like it, don't read it. I always try to find the positive side of things - having a bad experience will make the next one all the better! If you never had bad experiences you wouldn't know it when you really had a good one! Can't wait to hear the rest.
I just don't know how I'll survive the weekend knowing that I will be away from the internet during that time!
Great report, Barb, even though not the best of trips.
This is still very well-written, and I'm still hoping for a movie, but I find it is not as entertaining at this point. I just feel so bad for you Barb! May there be another solo trip in your future soon. I remember reading your last solo trip report and thinking that I hope some day to be enjoy such peaceful time by myself in wonderful places.
Thank you for taking the time to share your trips with us.
oopsy
One more thing Barb...any ideas on who will portray you in the movie?
Thanks again to all of you who are supporting this report. I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond to everyone who has posted but it's really hard getting this posted between work and clients. I might have to do some of it this weekend if I can. My daughter is due to have her baby any time, so I might get called away for that. There is a somewhat bittersweet happy ending to all this. It has not deterred me one bit from going back to my beloved Italy, only reinforced what I already really knew, I will go solo. I am not an antisocial person and believe it or not I do have lots of friends, ha. I had not spent much time with D over the last 20+ yrs. Usually just 2-3x a year at J's house for dinner. J had voiced her concerns before the trip, but we both decided that maybe D would never have this opportunity again because of financial reasons and we both really thought she would be ok. I have no doubt that she will be talking about her trip to Italy now instead of the S. France.
you've lightened up many a day for some readers. You can't please everyone
Waiting to see where it all ends.
Barb: Totally agree with the last statement you made. It's mind boggling.
The most miserable trip I ever made was with a psycho woman--yes, friend of a friend--who insisted on traumatizing every waiter, busboy, baggage handler, and roommate with all of her fears in her ignorant belief she was ALWAYS right. I kept tipping people right and left because I was so embarrassed to be with her.
Politeness finally left me when we were delayed hitting the Bright Angel Trail in the Grand Canyon by two hours because she a) had to have a good breakfast and b) she had to (I kid you not) set her hair. For goodness sakes, she carried her purse to the bottom of the canyon!!!!! We barely made it out by dark and I almost slid off the ice that formed at dusk on the rim into the canyon.
The friend that brought her to this day manages to work into any conversation, "I'm so sorry."
The psycho cheerfully tells everyone how this was the trip of her lifetime and how much she owes my friend and me for this. I universally respond--"Hmm, trip of her lifetime...yet she removed ten years from mine."
Barb, a couple of FWIW's:
1. Traveling together 24/7 is a strain on all relationships, including (maybe especially) romantic partners. There will always be moments of friction, mismatches of habits, cranky disappointments. But coordinating 2 people's ideas is a cakewake compared to coordinating 5 people's -- and add to that a drastic mismatch of experience with international travel, and it's a recipe for trouble. I'm not saying you were stupid to even consider this project -- I'm saying it is almost inevitable that things would fall apart to some degree, for almost anyone other than a professional, unrelated, non-friend, paid-for tour guide (and even then...) If you came out of it with a sense of humor and no permanent enemies, you are to be congratulated.
(The person I travelled with 40 yrs. ago and I lost a friendship over the differences in our philosophy, behavior, attitudes. Won't go into it now other than to say she also developed the very unnerving habit of ordering exactly what I did -- and then would complain bitterly if it was something she didn't like. She even lifted her fork to her mouth in exactly the same rhythm I did until I got so I couldn't watch her because it was too tempting to see what she'd do if I put the fork in my ear!)
2. You sound to me like an ideal traveling companion and I'm sure any number of the people reading your account would be happy to have your company, understanding completely if you need your space, your own room, your quiet time -- most of us do too, I'm guessing, who are not just 6 months out of living in a sorority house. The bonus of knowing Italy and having friends there, as you do, should have been highly valued by your companions.
You just pulled an unfortunate collection of newbies and loons, it sounds like (although I'm becoming fond of Eiffel Tower -- if she can just get a wardrobe clue!).
Am loving this account. Thank you.
I have read all of this and it has given me a headache and my stomach
is in knots.
LOL Amelia, people really never see themselves, do they?
For friends whose energy levels, travel styles and interests don't match my own I've learned to say, "I value your friendship too much to risk it."
Eiffel and Scared call to tell me they are trying to get me a room at the Hotel Corso and I decide to go into town and see if Palazzo Starache, where I have stayed before has a room. Both places are full. I call a few places, nothing. Seems Sorrento is booked. J and KIA says until I can find something, I can move in with them as the double bed J has been sleeping in is actually twins. There is not much room there and I know it would only be a temporary thing maybe for one night. It’s decided that despite the day starting off badly and now it’s looking like rain, that we will all go to Capri. Scared is sick, running a fever and stays behind. Actually, she pretty much is in for the duration of the trip.
As we are walking down the hill to the Marina, once again I notice Il Faro. I tell the others I will meet them at the ticket booth and I walk in just to take a look and maybe get one of their brochures. When I walked in to the lobby I just got this warm feeling. I just wanted to sit down on one of their couches and not move. Knowing the answer I asked the desk clerk if they had any single rooms available and what it would cost. She did!! and it was 90 E, but she would give me a 10% discount for staying 6 nights! This is over my budget, but I am so relieved that at this point I don’t care. This, plus my half of D’s room puts me way over, but it is so worth it to me. I will put it on my credit card and worry about it when I get home. She showed me the room. No view, but the room is immaculate, very cozy and the décor is beautiful. Hanging on the wall is a big fluffy white bathrobe and the bathroom is shiny marble everywhere. There is satellite tv and a phone!! An in-room safe and I get a complimentary bottle of vino and 10% off dinner at Vela Bianca, the wonderful restaurant just out the front door, which I have been to before and love. OMG. I cannot tell you how relieved I am. I asked her if I could have a moment. She went downstairs and I did the happy dance. I am not kidding you, I really did. I was jumping up and down, saying yes, yes.
I ran over to join the group to tell them the good news. Everyone was happy for me. D wanted to know if I had a view. I didn’t tell her I didn’t, but I told her that this room was like a palace to me.
I will try to post more today, but I’m not sure if I can. I might not be able to get back to this until Monday. There’s still lots more to tell though….
Hi peeky-

I just got home and was skimming the forum and found this again, and I have a headache too from reading all this...and I'm not sorry I did, because I learned alot about the tone of this forum.
And It's interesting to see how extremely popular this thread is.
But it's not very interesting to read at this point from a traveler's point of view, so I'll just move on to more positive and active pursuits on this Friday night. I know I'll probably get slammed hard for not joining the throng here. That's OK.
I have some delightful memories of Rome and Sorrento, and I'll stick with them instead.
Have fun every one, if this is your thing- to each his/her own. Poor Barb and what long and winding tale of suffering and woe.
My intestions are in knots.
peeky, so is your spelling LOL. I hate when that happens.
My intestines are fine - it is my intestions that are knotted, lol. Poor Barb - I am sick by just reading it.
Barb is not bashing her traveling companions. Read the beginning of her post. This is a precautionary tale. For all of us that have walked a mile in her shoes, yes, it's entertaining - been there, done that. We can relate. We are not laughing at her traveling companions, we are laughing with Barb and commiserating with her. I would never laugh at anyone with mental problems, but I do chuckle at wardrobe selections, lack of proper planning and the perplexity people experience when traveling abroad that things aren't like they are at home. Lighten up, folks.
Barb,
I had a chance to catch up...almost crying for you when you went over to Nonna's pensione. And that morning scene...Gah! I hope Howard and Margaret had a lovely stay.
I'm glad you got out of there and it does sound like things are turning around for the better.
All the best to your daughter and babe and you! Yes, take the weekend off. We leave the lights on. : )
kakalena
Monday? MONDAY??!! Ohhh noooooo.....
I travelled with 8 women to Italy and had no problems whatsoever. I didn't plan it, two of the others took that job.
7 of us were sorority sisters, 1 was an unknown friend of a friend. She was extremely accomodating, never complaining saying that she " didn't want to get kicked off the island"
Barba's "divas" were unappreciative and rude. Our group worked and did not have one argument because we were all polite, and complimented the planners even when things didn't work out quite right.
I am one of those people who "have to eat right now" so I brought trail mix and protein bars and never told the group they had to eat when I was hungry.
We had days or nights when one person didn't feel good or couldn't do the walking required. They always went to the room to recuperate without complaining or disrupting the group.
We split every meal evenly, dividing the total by 8.
Barb, I'm sorry this trip didn't work out and I hope you aren't bothered by some of the comments. You had a lot of patience with these women.
Ok, I have had to print from where I got up to last night. Going to sit out by the pool, drink in hand and enjoy. Thanks Barb.
We are looking for an add on for our RTW trip....think I may choose Rome now!!!!
Omigod, I am so relieved that the Il Faro has a room, I am doing a happy dance too!
This story is spellbinding, a change from the usual Glorious Tales of Perfect Trips..which happen but it is a change of pace to read about one that had its problems..
I feel SO bad that your days were spent being sad or tense, when those days in Italy were so precious to you.
peeky, you always make me laugh!
Barb has intestinal fortitude I think
No more til Monday!?! OMG! . . .
By then this thread could have 400+ posts. Maybe we should all try to not add anything new until we hear back from Barb w/ her next installment.
I am mostly a lurker on this forum, but I just have to say how much I'm enjoying your report Barb! I've spent the entire evening (along with a bottle of Bordeaux)reading it!
Your spirit and wonderful sense of humor shine through.
A solo traveler here...
liz
Barb-you're not a backstabber or a bad friend. We all know what your intentions were and like you said, you could have sugar coated your trip report but instead added humor and a lessoned to be learned.

Honestly, although I'm always open and upfront with my friends, I don't think I could have left them behind, especially when it was their first time there. You felt responsibility to them and I would have felt the same. While the majority of people here truly value their travels, it seems first timers don't understand what's the big deal of a particular place, especially when they haven't taken the time to read about it.
Italy means more to you than it will ever mean to them and they didn't understand that.
I think you are a good friend for sticking with them despite the fact that they literally drove you insane.
I'm glad you have posted this trip report and I've also enjoyed reading most of the replies.
Hope it's not long before the next installment!
Julie_Colorado:
I was laughing out loud when your husband thought you were going to CA instead of Wy. I had to show my husband! That's hilarious!
(Excuse my typos.. I should be sleeping but wanted to catch up before the thread got too long, LOL!
)
Hello Ms. Barb,
Polite questions: Who did your companions vote for? Were they Red staters or Blue staters? Were they married? Divorced?
Loving the report because it makes me feel sooooo lucky my own TCFH were actually not THAT bad.
One of my friends is beautiful and young and pretty much gets away with anything because of it. One-on-one she is fun to be with but feels the need to be the center of attention when with a group of people. Her behavior seems "cute" to people who first meet her but is just tiresome after a bit. I cringed when I heard her talking loudly on the plane to complete strangers about her sex life. She was standing up and talking over her seat to the college boys behind her so the entire back portion of the plane got to hear her tales. Her husband is a 7'1" professional basketball player and she likes to go into great detail about how well endowed he is and all of their antics in bed. I was so thankful I wasn't sitting next to her.
Like all of you, I enjoy travel planning so I did lots of homework on dining options. One of my travel companions had been to our destination the year before and insisted we eat at all the restaurants she had tried on that trip. They were all places she'd just gone into off the street not knowing a thing about them. I didn't mind going the first time but she insisted on going to the same breakfast place and the same lunch place EVERY day! They even ate dinner at the same (mediocre) place twice and this was a three night getaway. I quietly opted out and ate on my own on day two and they were offended that I didn't want to spend time with them.
She also was "the expert" on how to get from point A to point B (because she had been there before, you know!)and didn't listen to advice from the concierge on the best way to get to destinations. We drove on roads that had stop lights at every block rather than taking the interstate so that instead of a 15 minute drive we spent two hours getting to our destinations.
I did learn some very valuable lessons about travel companions on that trip and the price wasn't too high. We all still work out together and share a meal now and then. I recently bought a vacation condo where we visited and go monthly. They all hint that they would like to join me but no way!
Hi Barb,

Thanks for mentioning Il Faro. I've bookmarked it.
I particularly liked "Flower to the eyelet of our hospitality, are the four restaurants..."
My friends thought I was crazy to go to Europe alone in June. I think not, LOL.
Am enjoying the tale of your tribulations tho I have a big knot in my stomach imagining a trip like this with my friends.
Barb...I have so enjoyed your tale of woe. I know people were waiting for my trip report last spring after I had been posting so much about it. My husband and I spent two weeks in Italy and Paris. However, the trip turned out to be totally DIVA and I did not have the heart to divulge how disappointing the trip had been.
After 26 years of marriage, this man turned into someone I no longer knew! He complained about the food, complained about the prices although he insisted on ordering the 14E Coca Cola in Paris, and, while walking through Pompeii, repeatedly complained that it was just a bunch of old "crap"...who cared that is was 2000 years old????
By the time we got to Paris, I had had enough and told him that he could be as miserable as he wanted, I would no longer be his "guide" and if he wanted to come along he could but I was going to see things.
Needless to say, we have decided Europe is not his thing. Unless there is a beach and a bar, he will no longer be going. *S* And I will be traveling next year to London and Paris with my mother (who totally enjoys old "crap" as much as I do).
Now I have to admit, I was a bit nervous that a trip with Mom might put me over the edge however after Christina's post earlier, I have great faith that this will be a once-in-a-lifetime bonding experience and I am truly looking forward to it.
As for your bitter critics here, I say, you did a great job under the most trying of circumstances and if they don't like it, for God's sake....STOP READING!!!
I am going into withdrawal waiting for Monday's installment! Come on Monday!
Has Barb set a record for the most posts per day on a single thread?

Dejais - how I sympathize with you. My husband is like yours - beach and a bar. I went to Italy last year with my 2 daughters and we had the most wonderful time (and they both want to go again!). My husband would have been a big disappointment for the reasons yours turned out to be.
Barb - loving your report!
Barb... I'm enjoying your report. I've had friends' suggestions that we go to Europe together. I seem to not hear this conversation, easier than saying NO.
My cousin accompanied her mother to Paris and had a very similar experience. "WHY don't THEY have decaf just like WE DO in AMERICA."
I think I may invite my cousin to join me next time I want to go exploring and the DH doesn't.
I've traveled with friends and relatives, and never again. My wife is fairly content with the itineraries I set. On the occasion she wants to deviate, she normally wins.

I think lots of husbands are like Dejais's and sundowner's - I know mine Ex was like that, only there also had to be a golf course. And for you husbands who like to travel and see things, I've known many wives who just want to chitchat with their friends (or spend all their time shopping!) instead of enjoying the sights and scenery. Definitely best to leave those types at home and go alone or with a "travel compatible" person.
Can't wait for Monday and the rest of Barb's story. I don't think she's been "mean" at all, just truthful, and besides it's been great entertainment for us. I've needed a diversion like her story, as I live in Miami and it hasn't been much fun here, with Wilma's visit. I waited in line 6 hours for gas the other day - not for the car but for the generator. When I got home the power was back on, so that 6 hours was for nothing. So thank you Barb, for some laughter!
Dejais...we're married to the same guy!!!!!!LOL
Barb, so glad you were able to get your own room. I'm going on my first solo trip next week to Argentina (for business) and I was worried about it until I read your report. Now I think I might be okay. Thanks.
Your first solo trip will be all the way in Argentina?? Now that’s a brave soul. I hope you have a grand time, lots of great steaks, great wine and maybe a few tangos. You don’t suppose we could ask you for a little trip report, do you? I’d love to hear how you managed. Have a good trip.
Can NOT wait to read SharonG's trip report. She's such a hoot!
OMG, this is better than Desperate Housewives! And to think I was considering planning a similar trip to Spain with women friends (when my Spanish was good enough)...well, this certainly makes me reconsider.
While travelling with DH has its challenges at times, this takes the cake. Yes, solo has much to recommend it!
Thanks so much for this most enjoyable report, and please keep writing!
Barb, I hope you remember the name of the place in Florence with the great Ribbolito ... could be a good Thanksgiving day dinner for me and my (terrific) traveling partner.
Re: Michelangelo's David - some critics think the out of size hands (and head) are a flaw. Others believe that Michelangelo's intent was to give a sense of power. The David played a political/social role as well as an artistic one. He was meant to symbolize Florentine power in a world where larger powers constantly threatened.
By the way, I think "Why Do The Wrong People Travel" was posted without the songwriter's name: it was Noel Coward.
Now back to reading the saga of girls on the go ...
I'm a little surprised (but not a lot) at the posts complaining that Barb is mean-spirited or being cruel toward her crew. There is no way one of them will stumble on this board - or only the slimmest chance, and that's Barb's chance to take if she chooses to.
It's astounding how many people will spend thousands of dollars on a trip and not spend another $20 for a guidebook to read BEFORE they go, to learn a little something and really get something from the experience. But many, many, many do. I give directions to them on the streets of NY all the time.
The lesson is, difficult people will be difficult everywhere. And people who mix reasonably well on their home turf, where they can retreat to their own space, don't necessarily mix on a 24-hrs a day schedule, especially when in a foreign country where they have no one else to speak with.
As for Barb's story, if it wasn't entertaining, with nicely drawn characters, we'd all have stopped reading days ago. (BTW, I like a lot of the other stories coming out here, too, whether of good or bad experiences.)
Anyone who doesn't like the tone should be doing something else with their time, rather than presuming to judge Barb's intentions or decency.
Signed, me, a 50-something GUY who finds it all sweetly amusing and less hard on my stomach than my own sometimes tense moments with friends abroad ...
This has to be one of the biggest crowdgathering posts I've seen.

Barb's story is engrossing for sure, somewhat like eavesdropping on a group of middle-aged women wrapped up in a personal psychodrama/comedy.
I'm not sure I need the precautionary part, since I experienced enough not to make the choices Barb made about group travel, but I'm enjoying reading it!
Hi Barb,
I am so curious about one thing in your story...you claimed that
"We (the Divas) are all still talking to each other, even D. "
Will you openly share this story with the group of friends you are writing about here? Even D?
I still remember the first time I traveled to Italy many years ago. It was with a group of schoolteachers and I'm sure I made many ridiculous mistakes, made unforgiveable fashion faux-pas, and didn't even take a guide book (probably a stupid move, but it all worked out fine in the end).
One of the greatest things I remember about that first time was that I was free to make these mistakes and learn the lessons myself. Looking back, that freedom was one of the best parts of the trip...
Thank the lord there was no internet back then!
I encountered a couple of American ladies when I was last in Venice.
One was definitely a diva.
She asked for orange juice at breakfast and stared at it very doubtfully.
I said (hands across the sea) that it was very nice and that it wasn't orange because it was made from blood oranges.
"BLOOD oranges!", she yelled and wouldn't touch it.
Dr. Chasuble said that I should have said "red oranges".
On consulting American friends, I discover that blood oranges are not uncommon in the US.
In case Barb isn't able to locate her ribollita locale, here's a recommendation: We had an outstanding dinner, including a delicious ribollita, at La Maremma
Via Verdi 16/r (055-244615), in the Santa Croce area. Nice ambience with friendly professional service.
I think that after Barb is finished (hopefully it will keep going for a while with lots of dramatic details), I will re-read SharonG's Trio (I am still laughing at Le Clip) report and maybe also dig out the one where Elvira went to Venice with the Loons and rented a houseboat (I think it involves Fish Tacos) so that I am not forever traumatized by group traveling!
Now I will logout and go kiss passionately my DH in appreciation for being such a wonderful travel mate
My sisters have expressed their desire to travel with me/us. I have managed to avoid committing, I have a feeling it could turn out just like Barb's trip. It has to be a lot worse when close family is involved.
Maybe we should start a Fodor's Fund to aid Traumatized Travelers. We could send Barb out to Italy for a few days by herself! It would not make such gooood writing though.
"Thank the lord there was no internet back then"...

Oh, before the internet , there were plenty of ways for people to tell each other about the fools they saw while traveling or the way they acted like fools.
It just wasn't so fast or maybe not quite so many people found out LOL
All I can say is, Thank goodness for this internet, I can be entertained by all the success trip stories and the almost disasters like Barbaras!
Marigross, I agree! Reading about the bad travel companions does make you doubly appreciate your good one
I do hope this is not the end, it is still very funny..
I should say in defense of DH, he was at one time a great traveling companion. However, that last trip, I am not sure what happened to him but it was like he completely morphed into another person. And after planning for a year and going to great lengths to be sure I included things he would like, I have to say I was a bit peeved he was not oohing and aahing as I was. To think, he "dissed" Pompeii. I was appalled! *laughing* I thought...Oh, no, he did not!
Anyway, did I mention he (like others before him) did not heed ANY of my traveling advice (being a guy and "knowing" SO much). Needless to say, he overpacked and whined about all of the stairs in Venice and Capri while I made my way easily with my backpack and small rolling suitcase.
Icing on the cake though was standing at the Trevi, having already thrown his coin in, suddenly screaming, "I've been pickpocketed!"
And so, after ruining a perfectly wonderful day, I made him stand in front of the neon sign in the subway warning, "Beware of Pickpockets" and took his picture.
I sent copies to all of our friends.
Even before reading Barb's post, I recently backoff from a planned trip to Provence with 4 family members. The reason? just gut feeling and instinct. Somehow while planning the trip (me being the main planner), I just didn't feel right after a few consultations with them. The clincher, however, is when I suggested for them to buy a map at Borders or amazon to be able to see the towns we are visiting and they said they'll just get a "FREE" map at our local AAA!! Furthermore, when they asked me to TELL them the EXACT number of days they need to spend in Avignon (we'll just be meeting each other in Aix to start the trip), what are the sites to visit and what surrounding towns to make a day trip etc etc just made me have second thoughts about having them come with us. Now I breath a sigh of relief!!
>My cousin accompanied her mother to Paris and had a very similar experience. "WHY don't THEY have decaf just like WE DO in AMERICA."<

They do. It's called "decaf" (dei ka or dei caw)
I think Barb's experience just confirms how hard it can be to find people who are compatible -- both for marriage/SO or travel! If you are experienced and very, very careful you can be successful. If you are wise, sometimes you know when to go solo and when your much loved (but nutso) family members should be left on their own.
Some people are meant for group tours, others travel independently. On my recent solo trip, I met so many fellow tourists who just couldn't believe I was traveling on my own. I just couldn't believe they were willing to wear a tour group sticker on their shirt/red baseball cap/follow an umbrella. To each his/her own!
Barb,
I have been enjoying the chronicles of your ill-fatted trip to Rom & Sorrent. You have a delightful way of describing what I am sure is not nearly (if at all) as funny as it is to those of us who are reading it.
There is one thing I've read that concerns me - the fact that you are giving your friends Ambien. Your physician described this drug for with a knowledge of your health history, your current state of health as well as any other medications that you are taking. By giving this medication to to your friends, you are risking the fact that necause their health histoaries, their current state of health or other medications they mjay be taking, Ambien may be contrindicated and could cause serious side affects. In addition, Ambien is not only a drug that requires a prescription, it is also considered a controlled substance just as narcotic pain killers and tranquilizers are considered controlled substances. If any of your friends should experience a negative side effect from the Ambien you have given her, and she ends up in a health care facility and it becomes know that you have given her the drug, you could be in serious legal trouble. You are, in affect, illegally distributing a controlled substance. I don't know about the laws in Italy, but in most countries a controlled substance is a controlled substance, and giving your Ambien to your friends would fall into the same category as distributing illegal drugs. This is not something you want to mess with in the States, let alone in a foreign country.
If your friends are having trouble sleeping, your hote should be able to put them in touch with a physician who could prescribe an appropriate medication for them. Also, they can check with one of the Italian pharmacies for an alternative, over the counter drug. Pharmacies will also give you referrals to physicians if you need prescribed drugs. If worse comes to worst, they can go to the emergency room for treatment.
Don't put yourself or your friends in jeapoardy.
I've always been amazed that so msny posters here say they take ambien when they fly to Europe.
I know Mimi, I might have to try it
My fear is that it will knock me out for days or I will have nightmares and scare the plane full of people with my screaming lol.
I am afraid to take anything when flying as even a couple of Advil's can make me sleepy. I would not want to be groggy if there was an emergency. But I guess if the plane was crashing being knocked out and not knowing about it would be a "good thing".
norapaige-I didn't realize that Ambien was a prescription (I'm not a regular pill taker-so I'm hopelessly out of the loop). Did Barb offer this to D? If so, didn't she also say D had some issues with drinking? Is that a dangerous combination?
Barb was trying to kill D.
Call the police.
My headache is better now.
I am glad she is passive aggressive - I think I am also.
Sognatrice, nice to see you back!!!!
Barb, I am loving this report!
Everyone who knows me knows that if they travel with me, I am a complete dictator and it works.
I'd bet my next paycheck that all of your traveling companions are bragging that it was their best vacation ever.
Barb, thanks for the trip report. I understand your intent; it's a good cautionary tale.
I've often traveled solo, and while there are a few drawbacks, having traveled with a TC who could not seem to be alone with her own thoughts for more than a few seconds has convinced me that I'm on the right track.
I do enjoy travel with the husband, but we are able to agree to disagree if we have different ideas about how to spend the time and to separate during the day for different pursuits.
The other great TC I've had was with a gay male friend with whom I traveled the Cinque Terre. We had a great trip, were both patient, flexible, and easy-going, all helpful travel attributes. We took a week for this travel before a conference in Florence we were both attending.
I've ducked out of any number of potential small group travel experiences and I'm glad. I know some prefer the group experience, but the Diva travel entourage is my idea of hell.
I didn't know what ambien was, either. Kept meaning to look it up but since rarely take anything other then a vitamin I forgot.
Could it be that the ambien is part of the problem here? I'm not making a judgement b/c like I said, I don't know anything about ambien and I will probably never think about it beyond this post. I certainly do not want to join the chorus of naysayers. I think Barb needs to vent this in a safe place but...
Ambien:
Certainly no prescription sleep aid should be handed out at random. (Anyone remember the case a couple of years ago of a flight attendant who slipped something to a difficult passenger? Very bad scene followed, legally and otherwise.)
That said, when I spent a few nights in the hospital in Dec, I discovered that Ambien is the sleep aid of choice, and it was all they would give me at night, although at home I had a scrip for a tranquilizer that works much better with no side effect.
The problem I have with Ambien is that it just doesn't work as well for me - a doctor friend tells me that it sends you off to sleep, but doesn't give you REM sleep, the kind that is really healing and restful. If you stay asleep beyond the 4 hr Ambien window, you'll start getting REM sleep. If you wake up, you may find yourself not rested at all. Especially true after a 2nd or 3rd night on it.
On the other hand, Ambien is thought to be very safe, non-addictive - and many of my friends swear by it for a night flight and the first night after a time change.
satnitcboy, that's very interesting that a doctor told you that, because that is exactly my experience of the drug. I never feel I've really gotten deep sleep on it, but it does help me to rest and relax on a long flight and I do feel that I've slept.
Since D's behavior was peculiar before the Ambien, I wouldn't be so quick to blame the drug.
A problem with Ambien is the short duration of sleep--good for a plane trip but less so for continued use. For some folks, 5 mg. good for around 4 hours, 10 mg. for 5-6. It is now thought to be potentially addictive. An advantage is a quick drop off to sleep. It is a prescription med. Some people like Restoril, but I've not found that helpful.
hi cigalecganta,
thanks for the greeting, I haven't really been gone altogether, just not feeling up to posting here for quite awhile. a least 2 or three trips ago, i think. (2 happily solo, 1 with friends who I got along with very well, which is kind of funny since one of them is an opera singer and probably has some real life Diva genes!)
Can't wait to read the rest of this report. And yes, I'm going to Argentina alone (Buenos Aires)but will be somewhat "chaperoned" because the group that I'm speaking to will be taking care of me most of the time and I'll only have two days on my own. Would love to post a trip report but I stepped a toe into the Latin America Forum to just ask about Buenos Aires and got mauled by a couple of posters so I'm not going back there!!! Maybe I'll hijack the Europe forum for my trip report and then other people can yell at me for posting on the wrong forum. Madre mia!
Sharon, post and teach us how to tango which I hope you will learn
I have been to Italy about 30 times, always ending up in Rome. My parents were born 40 miles from Rome and I know every nook and corner of the place. But, the only time I was ever frustrated on a trip to Bella Roma was when I made plans to meet a friend and his wife there for a six day stay. He & she proceeded to tell me all about the place, and took me to every tourist trap in the city. I finally said enough was enough. I told them that when I go to Rome, I chill out, wander around and act like a Roman. They can do whatever they want to do, but me, I have no plans, I let the enigma that is Rome lead me. Needless to say, it was the end of a "beautiful friendship." I left the next morning and spent the rest of the week with my cousins in Provincia de Frosinone, in my ancestoral home.
I was at peace!!!!!
Have to make a comment to Dejais re. her DH "becoming another person" even though it has nothing to do with travel...(forgive me please and the rest of you can ignore this)
Dejais,
It's not commonly accepted, but men too DO go through menopause and this may explain what you were witnessing. I've seen this myself, so know just what you mean. I believe (or at least in my case it seems so) it does get better, but yes, it can seem like they've become a different person (mine seems to display his on the road, hence I've decided to go to "non-driving" places such as Venice and Paris...or take trains and buses in Tuscany because "who wants to have to bother with parking" ha, ha...you get the picture.) Good luck--I do believe it will pass.
Alberto01-
I like and admire your style- you saw the problem, took responsibility for your own needs and did not hesitate to act on it without lingering and over dramatizing the situation. Your final statement "I was at peace!" says it all. I believe that most of our experiences are of our own making and by choice, and I wish you many more happy and peaceful times in Rome and Provincia di Frosinone!
Peeky - Did you take Ambien for your headache? You've made me laugh out loud on two different threads today!
SharonG - Post your trip on the Europe forum. We love your trip reports even if you aren't traveling with the trio of terror and the trip nazi.
SharonG – Look at it this way, 1/3 of the population in Buenos Aires is from Italian descent, 1/3 is German – a trip report will fit right into the European forum. By the way, it is Spring in Buenos Aires, you should have great weather.
Barb – did you ever think that your nightmare trip would end up giving you such fame and glory in Fodors?
Barb - I am enjoying your report very much and please continue. I do believe it provides great advice and insight on traveling with friends. Although this was a horrible vacation experience for you, at least you can provide an entertaining story. Probably a glass half full attitude, which I think you have.
OK Barb, it's Monday and we're all waiting!!!
ginder, please read.
If I had been Barb, the choice might have been between offering an Ambien to D or hitting her over the head with rock!
!
There little about Ambien that would cause altered behavior per se, but for many of us, the night-after rebound is severe -- that is, if I take an Ambien on Monday evening, I'm bouncing off the walls with eyes wide open on Tuesday night (without the Ambien), which can affect behavior on Wednesday for sure. So I only take the stuff when I desperately need the sleep tonight to function tomorrow and can throw the day-after-tomorrow away -- which is about once a year! I don't use it traveling for that reason.
Barb, where are you? Your trip report has become more of a forum for others to bicker about sharing RX and whether you are "justified" in sharing the story of your travels! I miss YOUR entries...
Patiently waiting for the next installment,
Christine
Regarding the Ambien - it's not clear that her traveling companion actually TOOK the Ambien. I believe Barb offered, but was refused. Therefore, any odd behavior cannot be attributed to the drug.
Regarding certain posters who imply that Barb is mean for posting this trip report - for all we know, the Divas are on some Diva website posting something about Barb. At the very least, I'm sure they're complaining about her to someone out there, so it's a wash to me. Keep going, Barb. As you say, sometimes the truth hurts.
Some trips are good, some trips are bad and some trips are ugly. I wouldn't want Barb to censor her experience one iota to please the masses.
True to the Halloween spirit the villagers are at the door bearing all sorts of torches on many subjects.
Why not let her finish telling her story in her own good time?
More fantastic stuff, Barb, thank you ! Glad to hear it does get better.
In case it makes you feel any better, when I shared a room with a friend I didn't know very well (about 20 years ago), it ended with her hitting me !!
LOL Cassandra, I agree. At that point, I might have been slipping them something stronger than Ambien

Yes, it is Monday. I am waiting .... Barb!! drop everything and come back
Barb, thanks so much for sharing your story.... I am somewhat taken aback by those that have read days and days of posts and are now putting out their replies that you are being mean, inconsiderate, etc.. If I wasn't enjoying this thread so much I would have been out of it long ago and I frankly don't understand why they felt compelled to read everything and then blast you. I've always believed that writing is therapeutic and am sure that you're regaining some of your sanity by sharing your trip with us.
Although I've never experienced a trip like this, I'm in the military and have done a lot of travelling throughout the world...often with people who look for the nearest McD's or bar when they hit a port...wherever it may be. So I can completely empathize with you when it comes to being amazed that people will travel halfway around the world in search of America. I just don't get it. Reading your story makes me thank God that I have an incredible travel partner (my hubby) that makes our journey's so memorable.
By the way, we're dying here...more story, please!
Best way to salvage a disaster is through self-expression. Nice save, B!
I really debated all weekend about whether to continue this report. I did it with really good intentions, mainly payback for all the good advice I've received from this forum over the years. I certainly did not want to upset anyone, so I'm really a little surprised at the few who after reading 300+ posts felt the need to critize and chastize me. I guess it's rather like J & D eating that whole basket of bread and then saying how bad it was. But,, because I started this, I feel compelled to see it to the end. I will say to those who think I am a bad person/friend and who is dispensing drugs without a license, that you might want to stop reading this now.
We did visit Capri. Since the last time I was there in 2002, you have to first line up to buy your tickets for the funicular, then line up for the funicular. When Diva chaos once again threatened to rear it's ugly head- KIA was indignant and talking about going into the tourist office and complaining, I told her she should, ha. I said I would stand in line for the tickets and maybe the rest of them could stay in the funicular line. Eiffel is now freaking out a little about the funicular -"How high is it?' how fast does it go?" Just as I am coming back to the funicular line with tickets in hand, KIA is coming back from the tourist office, saying "I think you have to go that line over there for tickets", duh. After 45 min. we arrive at Capri town. It is pouring rain, luckily we have our umbrellas. Eiffel's green plaid is going quite well with her green and orange ensemble. Despite the rain, it's wall to wall people. I suggested that maybe we could go up to Anacapri first and maybe the rain would stop by the time we get there. Another 10 min. standing in line for the bus tickets. I tell Eiffel that maybe she should sit on the left hand side of the bus just in case the heights bothered her. I was honest with her and told her that it might be too much for her. She said, well the funicular wasn't so bad, so I'll try it. Well we didnt' get to sit, we were packed in like sardines and poor Eiffel was wedged in between a man with garlic breath and two teenagers with spiked hair, AND, she was facing the wrong side. Oh no. But miracles to happen, she's fine, in fact, at one point I actually see her leaning to see over the edge!! She is very proud of herself and is saying " Ok,I did it, ok" as she leaves the bus. Well, it's still raining, but now it's more like pour instead of just rain. Huddled under our umbrellas, we decide to just find somewhere to have lunch and pray that the rain lets up, at least a little so we can see Capri before we have catch our ferry back. We found the most charming little place. La Trattoria Il Solitario, which is situated in a small vineyard where some of the vines covering the walkway are as big around as my leg. The inside is small, with lots of windows looking out into a grove of lemon and nut trees. There are only 6 tables inside. It's warm and cozy and so welcoming. It looked like maybe mother and daughter we waiting tables. Because the only two tables available were not big enough for all of us, somehow I got seated with D. I think because the other Divas almost ran to the bigger table so they would not have to sit with her. I was staring daggers at them. The only consulation is that I had the banquette with fluffy pillows right beside a big window. D is again like a little kid and is so happy with this place. I order the most delicious homemade pasta with mussles, clams, little tiny intact white fish and a very interesting shellfish that I have never seen before - the shell is pinkish and long and narrow, about the size of my little finger. It is sweet and very delicious. D orders the same thing. Funny, now that I know I don't have to "live" with her, I think I can probably take her in small doses.
Again, there is thunder and lightening and the little streets of Anacapri are now small raging streams. As we are waiting in line for the bus to take us back down the hill, Eiffel says, why dont' we just get a taxi and go down to the harbor, I can't take this one more minute. We finally all agree on something. 4 Euros later we are down at the harbor. I was feeling badly that they didnt' get to really the beauty of Capri and I didn't get to take the lift up to the top of the mt., but I knew I would return again.
So, back to the Lorelei to collect my bags, yahoo, with the staff looking on once again wondering what was going on. I have to say that I was really disappointed with the Lorelei. The rooms are very tired and bordering on being dirty. The staff is very weird, the breakfast is literally a couple of hard bread rolls, butter, jam and lukewarm coffee. I noticed that some guest would bring their own breakfast food. The price for a double is 97E, so I guess for the price it's ok, and the view is certainly worth it. You definitely want a seaview room though as the street-side rooms are noisy and you get the smell of gas fumes.
The taxi to Il Faro is 14E, but I dont care. I can't remember ever feeling so glad to be anywhere. The staff are wonderful, it's clean and bright, a big bed and very quiet. There is a large terrace on the 4th floor with lots of blue deck chairs and a fab view. There is a full, or half board restaurant and the breakfast, which is included is good. The only drawback to staying here is getting up and down the hill. After what I had been dealing with, it just was not an issue for me. It take a long hot shower with the yummy almond scented soap, slather myself with the almond lotion and wrap up in the warm fluffy white robe. Ah.. life is once more good!
Barb - I just discovered your report and I love it!! So sorry for your stressful trip, but your writing style is wonderful! i can't wait to hear what happens next. I do feel sad for D. She definitely has some issues to work out and it sounds like she is really not aware of it. Hope she gets some help. You definitely are a patient one!
I was going into withdrawal symptoms already.. heheheh..

Glad you posted, Barb! Big smile over here.
Barb, I am one of your admirers...please ignore the critiques! I don't get it either - there are plenty of strings that I start on this board, and if I find them boring or annoying, I simply stop reading them. Don't know why that isn't happening here, unless you're hitting a nerve with some people.
Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to communicate...and I can't wait to hear the rest!
Didn't you have a daughter who is having a baby? I'd look through the previous posts, but you are so popular, it would take me hours to find!
Barb, dearest, take it from me...you can't please all the people all the time, and honest writing; as in, "writing from your heart," should be done to please you and only you. This is the essence of writing well and finding your voice. If you find many readers liking it and appreciating it (as evidenced here), well, that's just icing on the cake.
To be a seasoned, thick-skinned Fodorite, I find it helpful to remind myself that opinions are like a$$holes, everybody's got one. Ignorant, self-righteous people love to judge others. Nothing anybody says will change that. We all have to learn to share the planet with them.
DO NOT EVER apologize for speaking from your heart. My goodness, that's a gift from God and I'm sure he would be disappointed if you tried to squash it. I think it would be a Venial Sin if you don't complete this report, and I would insist on ten Hail Mary's and ten Our Father's for your punishment, and I don't care if you're Jewish, Muslim, or Buddhist.
Your trip report has to be one of the best I've ever read here. It truly deserves to be made into a movie with Maggie Smith playing you. I highly recommend you submit a manuscript to someone who has the power to make that happen. I'm sure with six-degrees-of-seperation, coupled with your friendship with SeaUrchin, you ought to do just fine.
Anyone with a clear head can see how altruistic you are. You clearly wished the best for everyone but did not have the power to change people and make them as happy, as sensitive, or as intuitive as you. One cannot know a true friend until you live or travel with him or her.
What have I learned from this report? You and I could share a room in Italy and probably have a blast and you wouldn't have to worry about a budget because I would be there to treat you all the way. Good people deserve good things.
Happy writing!
Barb - thanks for your latest installment. I enjoy reading your posts as they really capture the moment (not to mention COLOR as in Eiffel's garb). Shame it poored all day in Capri for you. Did the Divas blame the weather on you?
Thank you for continuing to share regardless of other's negative posts.
Barb:
I have been laughing out loud, this reminds me so much of a recent trip I took, but not nearly so bad - just one person ended up in emergency.
I am hoping to make my first trip to Italy next October - hope to spend about a month, and of course want to see everything, so the outline of your trip would be a great start for my plans
Thanks - looking forward to the next installment
Glo
Glad to see that you've decided to continue. Those of us who have "been there" are thoroughly enjoying this tale.
"It was the trip of her lifetime, but it took 10 years off of mine" Thanks to the poster who wrote that.
Barb, glad to see you back with the report. Not glad to read the divas won't even have lunch with D. After spending time rooming with her, you should have had a break at some point. I hope you were able to get through to them the need to 'share' D.
Wow - NYFS - thanks for your SOA. You made my day. Now as to Maggie Smith, hmm I was thinking more along the lines of Julia Roberts, lol.
Thank you, Barb, and keep it up. We are all grateful (most of us, anyway).
Barb,
Thank you for continuing to post. Your saga is so enjoyable to read.
Keep it coming.
Thank you so much Barb! Please don't stop writing!
Thank you, Barb, for continuing with this wonderful report.
And FWIW - I vote for Julia Roberts, too!
LOL~ NYCTS, I was thinking more like Glenda Jackson when she was younger..marching along with her little Divas scrambling behind

Thank you Barb, get back to the rest now, that's a dear girl
Truth be told, Barb -- as long as it takes to get a script to the screen Julia should be just about perfect for it by then!
Diane
I am loving the drama of this story and have been checking in all day to see about updates!

Thank you so much for continuing your story!!!!
Hi Barb- Thanks for continuing your writing. In all selfishness, I'm glad you did. DH and I just came back from a less than excellent trip to France and your report has helped ease my stress.
Certainly, I do feel a guilty pleasure, though, reading it. I mean, I'm easing my stress because of your trials and tribulations! But you seem to be handling the Divas well. And who among us hasn't had a trip similar to yours??
Interesting. Julia Roberts never did much for me. I always thought she was there for the men. Of course, I fully recognize her physical appeal but, beyond that, she doesn't have much to say in real life and, without a great director and script, she's about as flaccid as they come. I find very little about her that's compelling.
Maggie Smith is probably too old to play Barb in this story and I probably should have said "a Maggie Smith type," if such a person exists. Having recently seen that marvelous movie, "Gosford Park," for the first time and three-times-in-a-row, I saw some of Maggie Smith's wonderful, "I haven't a snobbish bone in my body" facial expressions in Barb's writing. No actress says, "Are you kidding me?," with a condescending face quite like Maggie Smith.
No matter how you cast it, there's a GREAT movie here. Giving it to the bean counters at Fodor's seems such a waste to me. I do enjoy thinking BIG.
How many days left on this trip?
NYCFS, once again, you are brilliant in your advice. I love the idea of making this into a movie. Only wish I had connections to help her. I kind of see Barb as a young Judy Dench myself and Doris Roberts as Eiffel Tower pants with the always neurotic Angelina Jolie as D (but older I guess). Oh well, it's fun to imagine it, just glad I didn't live it.
How about Goldie Hawn, Meryl Streep, Diane Keaton and Bette Midler?
This is probably, by far, the best, most descriptive travel report I have ever read on this site. Keep up the [good] work, Barb. Excellent
woops... just meant to make the word "ever" red -- not the rest. Pardon me...
I vote for Goldie Hawn or Diane Keaton. Both seem to project the right independent spirit, spunk, and good naturedness of our Barb.
I agree that this is the best trip report I've read here. Thank you for taking the time.
Oooh, oooh! Diane Keaton would be a perfect Barb. Can't you picture her trying to be kind and helpful and getting the response Barb has from the Divas? And Bette Midler would be fabulous as Eiffel Tower.
Yes, Yes, Diane Keaton it is! Maybe a much younger Diane Keaton.
BTW, My daughter is still hanging in there – she and the rest of her family will really be glad to see the arrival of this little boy.
We all decide to meet for dinner at one of my fav places, the name of which has totally just now escaped me, something like Parduccio ( and is on the main Corso and you walk in and then upstairs to a garden like setting with tall glass ceiling. And, because I’m feeling good – I decide to risk subjecting the restaurant to the Divas. It was actually a good pick because the place is jumping and the noise level drowns out even the Divas. They love it. I splurge because it’s really the first time, so I order the antipasta, which is divinely grilled veggies, drizzled with just the right amount of olive oil, tenderloin with green pepper sauce, sauteed mushrooms, spinaci and roasted potatoes. Oh, and a bottle of vino –yes, a whole bottle!! I told you I was happy. D orders the same thing – I thinking this is getting a little – weird huh? When the usual melodrama over the bill starts, I grab my half bottle of vino, plunk down my money and bid them all a buono notte with a smiley face. I’m even tempted to kiss the cute waiter on the way out, but I restrain myself. After trying to get a bus down the hill, I finally give up – I think they stop running at 10:00 or so, and hoof it down to the bottom. No so bad, just a little dark in spots. I do have that bottle of vino to whack anyone with if needed. On my way into the hotel, I pass by the Vela Bianca, the restaurant in front of the hotel, and one of the waiters, a very young one I might add – nods at me and give me this big smile, so, we have a little chat. Hmmmm – more to come on that. So this has been a good day, my own place, a good dinner, and my new young friend.
Today we we are off to Ischia . I am hoping to find the person my friends at home have asked me to look up. Domenico Rumore. I did some research and reading on Ischia and have decided that a day at the spa would do us all some good and they seemed to agree. My new handsome friend (NHF) calls me just as I am leaving, wow. he called! I’m impressed – I tell him I am off to Ischia. Should I tell the Divas about him. YES!!
The aliscafi leaves Sorrento at 9;20 a.m. every day and we are now off. The ride over is fairly smooth, although the seas are a little choppy. J is looking a little green around the gills, but has taken a graval (dramamine). Pulling into the picturesque little harbor I am encouraged by the emerging glimpses of blue sky and the sun is threatening to peek out. As luck would have it and because J and KIA need to eat, now! we sit down at a little harborside café. I ask the woman there if she knows Mr. Rumore. She looks at me rather oddly, and asks in Italian, more or less, why are you asking me this. I tell her about my friends, she smiles and says “he’s my brother”!! Then she’s waving her arms and yelling Domenico – from a short distance away down the dock walks this VERY good looking man. He does not speak English, but somehow we manage to communicate. I just can’t stop looking into his beautiful brown eyes. Before I know it people from all around are coming over and we are now like celebrities. A woman with her baby is running over – she’s Domenico’s daughter, and then there are pictures to be taken, group shots, I am being hugged very closely by Domenico – hmm I’m like this. Then it’s time to go and after hugs and kisses, armed with maps and directions, we set out to find The Poseidon. This is the recommended place to go to visit the minerals baths/pools. It’s a great way to see a good portion of the island as well as the bus takes you from the Porto at one end almost around the whole island. It’s just lovely. The sun is now actually shining as we enter the grounds of the Poseidon. It’s a garden like setting right on the beach with, I think 5 pools of varying temps. You start in the coolest and work your way up. Not knowing what to expect, or what the spa provided, we arrive with just bathing suits, I had taken a towel from the hotel to wrap my wet suit in and nothing much else. You can rent towels and robes, but it’s very pricey, so we opt not to. Most of the people have robes and matching towels, very shee shee. We are a rather mottly looking crew I must say with our required little black swim caps and the Divas with Sorrento tea towels over our arms and no tans whatsover – hey, we had a bad summer in the PNW this year. It is heavenly – the water is warm, then quite warm and very salty, so you can just float around, which I do for about 3 hrs. J, KIA and Eiffel actually take a little dip in the sea, but I prefer to float around in the pools. I spy D talking to some women by the waterfall and then I see them paddling quickly away. This place is very serene and amazingly quiet even though there are lots of people here. As I am floating like a mermaid, when I hear that unmistakable voice – it’s KIA – she’s found the bar/lounge up above and she’s yelling down to us that we should come up and check this out – somehow this broke the serenity of the moment and I know it’s time to go before we are perhaps asked to leave.
On the bus going back to Porto I have decided that this is where I might come next year and spend at least two or three days on Ischia. We are now under a time constraint because there is only one ferry back to Sorrento which leaves at 5:30 and everyone is hungry. We walk into the little town – Eiffel’s eyes are growing large at the many really upscale shops – and we settle on a place that is right on the main street and looks rather touristy, but surprises me with the really good food. I have a penne with eggplant and olives in a tomato sauce that was to die for. I was really sorry I had to rush through eating.
Well the boat ride back was certainly an experience – and one I hope to never have again!! It was rough. Three times the boat actually went up onto one pontoon and I thought for sure we were going to go right over. People were grasping the seats in front of them and the Divas were not the only ones who were gasping and trying to hold back screams. I was truly scared and I don’t scare easily. Good to put my feet on solid ground back in Sorrento.
Barb gets naughty!
I'm confused. Is Mr. Rumore the "one of the waiters, a very young one I might add"?
I ALSO thought of Bette Midler for Eiffel!!!!!!!!
I think that as soon as Barb described the Eiffel Tower uniform, we all assumed it WAS Bette Midler.
No, Mr. Rumore is a friend of a friend here at home. Actually, he owns some boats that tour around Ischia.
Because we had eaten on Ischia we (I) just have drinks and a snack at Fauno Bar. While we are sitting there, it starts pouring rain again, then thunder and then a crack of lightning and all the lights go off. The waiters all start clapping and someone starts singing. Just as they are lighting candles on the tables the lights come back on. Eiffel had been in the bathroom when the lights went out and she said it was a rather terrifying experience for a few minutes. She said she couldn’t move – it was pitch black and she had no idea what was going on. Just as she was getting ready to yell for help, they came back on.
So. tomorrow is Pompeii for the Divas – that ought to be good. I highly recommended that they read up on it a little before they go and KIA said she was going to read her Lonely Planet before she went to bed. Again, can you imagine not reading about this, or not really knowing about the history of Pompeii. I also mentioned to them that there were guides at the entrance, audio tours and that it might be a good idea for them rather than just wandering aimlessly about.
After a little walk around the Marina Piccolo with NHF, it’s to bed for sweet dreams.
The next morning was great – I was alone!! I wandered the streets of Sorrento with nothing particular in mind. Strolled through some galleries, Raffaele Starache’s studio was the one I enjoyed the most. I asked in my best Italian some questions about a particular painting and when his wife answered me in Italian, I had NO idea what she was saying and said “io non capisco” – she said “do you speak English?” I laughed and said yes. She spoke perfect English. She and her husband are very gracious and I left with their brochure and email address, which I exchanged for one of my art business cards and with a promise to keep in touch. I found a gem of a cameo store, “Bimonte, via PR. Giuliani, 62 and bought a lovely little cameo for myself. Then as I was walking down the shopping street I got a phone call from Eiffel, apparently the Divas miscommunicated and somehow she got left behind for the trip to Pompeii. She was very upset. Scared was feeling a little better so the three of us went to lunch. Discovered Trattoria da Gigino – which goes onto my list of favorite places. I had the antipasta della case, which I truly love because you just don’t see it on menus that much in restaurants at home and it is absolutely the best I’ve had so far. Grilled zucchini, eggplant, one huge mushroom, little button mushrooms, olives, beans, fresh ricotta, mozzarella and proscuitto all for only 10.00 euro. Francesco our waiter was attentive and even did our bills separate. From here we went to the dog man’s store. Maybe a few Fodorites are familiar with this man. His shop sells religious memorabilia and inlaid wooden boxes, etc. He is an expert craftsman and was even invited to the Santa Barbara home of President Reagan. His pic with Reagan is proudly displayed on the wall. His main focus is on saving the many homeless dogs of Sorrento. He has four dogs in his shop and always has food for any dogs who might just drop in for a meal. He has an offering plate for anyone who wants to donate to the cause. Well… Scare and Eiffel love this man. They both leave very hefty donations and Scared gives him her home address and invites him to come stay with her and her husband if he ever comes over to the West Coast. I took Eiffel to a shop which I have always loved and she makes the biggest purchase of the trip and is in heaven. She whispers to me if she can bargain with the owner and I tell her I don’t think she should. When we walk out she says she not only did she get the skirt, top and dress, but she asked the owner if she would throw in a pair of sandals and she did!!
Hi Barb, I hope your daughter is not feeling miserable!! Imagine you are all anxious for the little bundle of joy to arrive.
The restaurant in Sorrento you love and ate at is Ristorant "la Favorita" 'O PARRUCCHIANO located Corso Italia, 71.
I love this restaurant also, isn't it beautiful!!
Thanks for continuing your trip report Barb. Take care!
LoveItaly - That's it! It is beautiful and the food and service is very good. Thanks.
All's well that ends well, thanks Barb, wonderful, and my vote is for Diane Lane.
You go girl! So glad to hear about the NHF twist to the story. Boy, did you deserve that.
I spent 4 fabulous days on Ischia on my last Italy trip (spring). Next time you go, hike down the 200 steps to the little rocky beach where hot mineral water mixes with the cool Mediterranean Sea. The best! And better w/out Divas. (Hmmm, maybe with the NHF??)
We meet at Fauno’s to decide about dinner. The Divas were not wowed by Pompeii. Surprise, surprise. They had no idea it was that big, or that the walking would be that hard. They mostly liked all the dogs that wander around , but they had a nice lunch there apparently. We go back to da Gigino’s for dinner. The grilled sea bass was perfect and w/vino it was 16E. Francisco is very entertaining and gives me his phone number. D wants to see what the entertainment is like at the Foreigner’s Club. I try to warn her, but she wants to see for herself. I have to walk by there on the way down the hill, so we all go in to take a peek. Have you ever heard tie a yellow ribbon with an Italian accent. I bid them all goodnight and meet NHM for a quick drink.
This was the trip down the coast – why did I ever think this would work day. Let’s just say that even though Eiffel had had a breakthrough with her fear of heights on Ischia and was somewhat cocky to start , it quickly vanished as soon as we started down the Amalfi Coast on our way to Positano. Let’s just say, we had to practically pry her fingers from the back of the seat in front of her to get her off at Positano and KIA had been sitting holding a plastic bag, just in case, the whole way. We get off at the first stop and walk down to the beach. Eiffel says there is no way she is going to get back on that *&%?.. bus again and KIA is agreeing with her! J has taken another dramamine and is ok. Eiffel is even too traumatized to shop in Positano if you can believe that. We settle at Chez Black for lunch while they are all deciding what to do. The plan had been to go to Amalfi and up to Ravello. I have been before, so I didn’t care. J really wants to go to Ravello. So, it’s sort of decided that Eiffel and KIA would take the boat back to Sorrento and D, J and I would carry on down the coast. I order probably the best calamari of my life. They are tiny and delicate and just almost melt in your mouth. D orders the same thing. I look at J and her eyes look funny, I ask if she is ok, she says she feels funny, sort of tired. Then her eyes sort of keep closing and she’s actually nodding off. She falls asleep in her chair!! I couldn’t believe it. I’ve never seen anyone do that before. She “comes to” and says that she’s never felt this tired in her life and then remembers she took more Dramamine than she usually does and that must be it. She thinks that she will walk down to the water and get her feet wet and maybe that will wake her up. D goes with her. We are watching her and all of a sudden she walks into the water up to her calves, with long pants and her shoes on!! OMG. People are watching her and pointing. When she comes back to the restaurant she says she feels much better and we are staring at her dripping pants and wet shoes. She says, she thinks she will take the boat home.
This is hysterical! Keep it coming Barb!
Do you laugh or cry?!!!!!!
I rarely post...and have nothing to say that hasn't been said, but I have to add my thanks for such a great read!
And one more thing. Does anyone know how to contact Bette so she can enjoy this story?
I am actually irritated by my doorbell and the adorable trick or treaters who keep interrupting this read!!
This would make a pretty funny movie!
I can't believe D waded into the water w/o realizing she still had her shoes on (and pants not rolled up). She must have taken a boatload of Dramamine.
Barb - you've missed your calling as a chick-lit novelist!
I've always wanted to take that bus ride down the coast.
This story definitely has "best seller" written all over it.
Doesn't someone out there have some contacts in movieland?
"Do you laugh or cry?"
Frankly, I'm ready for a diet. The eating never ends.
Yet, in the film version, I see lots and lots of food and the characters eating or chewing on something constantly. And when they're not eating and chewing, they're talking about the next meal or last night's meal. Some of the funniest scenes and dialogue must take place at the lunch/dinner tables with plenty of close-ups of women talking and cackling with their olive-oily-mouths full.
One of the characters needs to arrive thin and gain weight rapidly as the days in Italy wear on, like Warner Purcell (Jim Broadbent) did in "Bullets Over Broadway." In fact, now I'm seeing Diane Weist as Barb.
Oh Barb, all kidding aside, you have to write a book! I think of the various novels I have purchased that were alright but..then along comes your trip report! I know I speak for many of us when I say I am going to hate it when your trip comes to an end. BTW, I would have been a raving maniac by this time, LOL. CinCin!
This is for those of you who wanted some additional info on Ambien. Ambien is included in a powerful class of drugs known as sedative/hypnotics. Ambien works by affecting chemicals in your brain that may have become imbalanced and caused insomnia. It induces sleep and relaxation.
Ambien is intended for short-term use, usually 7-10 days. Longer term use should be monitored by your physician. Ambien is habit forming and you may experience withdrawal symptoms if you suddenly stop taking Ambien after you have taken in for 2 weeks or more. If you are taking Ambien for a period of 2 weeks or longer, be sure to consult your physician before stopping the drug.
Some people experience carry-over symptons including memory loss. Carry-over symptoms are more likely to occur if you don't sleep for a full 6-8 hours. DO NOT DRINK while taking Ambien. Alcohol enhances the effect of the drug. Do no take other sedatives, sleeping pills, tranquilizers, muscle relaxers, prescription pain meds, and check with your do doctor for possible interactins with herbal remedies.
Ambien is contraindicated if you have kidney disease, liver disease; asthma, bronchitis or other respiratory diseases; depression or have suicidal thoughts. Symptoms of an adverse reaction or over dose are confusion, dizziness, difficult ot slow breathing, and of course, unconsciousness.
Ambien can safely be used under the care of a physician. I take Ambien when I travel because it helps my body to adjust to the different time zones. I try not to take it for more than a couple of days, because I too wake up feeling kind of groggy the next day, even if I've gotten a full night's sleep. There's a new sleep aid out, Lunesta. It is supposed to be as effective as Ambien, less likely to cause carry-over effects, and considerably less habit forming. There still is no perfect cure for chronic insomnia if that's your problem. Try relaxation exercises, guided imagery, yoga - sometimes it take a combination of things to get that insomnia monkey off your back. Also, sleep apnea can be a cause of chronic insomnia - you might want to see a neurologist and be tested. And, no, I am not a neurologist, but I am a health care professional, Physician's Assistant. Ear plugs can really help too, especially if you sleep with a snorer or are highly sensitive to noise. Good luck! Hope this helps!
This continues to be great.
I understand the age problem, but I really hate leaving Maggie Smith out of the cast for the movie. Can she be the narrator, telling the story decades later? Please?
Thanks so much Barb!
Well, at this point I really must jump in. Rarely does a trip report go on this way, and it would be even more rare for me to follow it to its conclusion. But follow it I must -- I've become addicted as much as the rest of you.
The first person who popped into my mind to play Barb was a Judy Dench-type. But I also think Diane Weist or Diane Lane would be great playing the role. This would make a delightful movie. Great scenery, great food, "interesting" characters.
Barb, more, please. I for one do not want to see this story end although you were probably happy to see it so. And yes, I have my TCFH story too. After five years we still are not speaking. My TCFH tearfully said, and I quote, "I want to do more in Paris than walk, look at things, and eat." And, that was just the beginning -- things went downhill from there.
Barb, hip, hip hooorayyyyyy!!!!
<When the usual melodrama over the bill starts, I grab my half bottle of vino, plunk down my money and bid them all a buono notte with a smiley face. I’m even tempted to kiss the cute waiter on the way out, but I restrain myself.>
Thankfully no one has arrived yet at the office because I am giving you a standing ovation. Barb is a big girl and the Diva can fend for themselves.
You SHOULD have kissed the waiter!!! It absolutely has to happen in the movie. The half drunk bottle of vino adds dramatic effect.
Keep it coming Barb!
I am reading all of this report because of being curious why so many people wrote comments.
Probably I don't have the same view so I won't say much, maybe I'll wait for the movie.
But I want to say three things.
First, I worry about offering or giving someone drugs when they are drinking. I don' think a friend or anyone should do this. It's wrong. And in the report I saw two places where it happened:
"D is pouring her second glass of wine and re-telling me for the third time about the time she travelled to the South of France ( 34 yrs. ago) and how all the men were after her. …. I ask her if she needed any help sleeping and offered her an Ambian, lol. "
And at the Hotel Lorelei (I know this place):
'I actually gave her an Ambian and then I tip toed around the room, periodically peeking at her to see if she was asleep."
To me, this is not what a real friend does.
Second, alot of people are saying that Barb is so patient and kind, and she is saying how she think a long time before writing it, but I think that is not the truth, because I saw another message she wrote before she came to Italy. She said:
" Thanks again to all you folks for your help in planning this trip and I promise I will do a trip report when I return - it will probably be a doozy given the dynamics of this group of 6 daring divas and luckily they don't read Fodors, so I can really report all the dirt! So arriverderci, ciao, and wish me luck."
To me, this shows she was already planning to say bad things about the women even from the beginning, to "report all the dirt", and she just used them for that.
Third, I want to say something of the young man she meets outside the hotel who is a waiter.
Isn't she a woman over fifty year old?
She says:
".... Now I know, no one is going to mistake me for Italian, as hard as I try, but I do try to blend in as much as I can. I have learned the customs..."
If you did not know it before, Barb, Italian women don't easily go around with some younger waiter they never met, it is not a custom here. And you don't "blend in" that way. You become more obvious, of course.
I agree the story can be an American movie. Will be very funny, and typical.
"First, I worry about offering or giving someone drugs when they are drinking. I don' think a friend or anyone should do this. It's wrong. And in the report I saw two places where it happened...To me, this is not what a real friend does."
More possible hogwash and a bit of judging without knowing all the facts. First, nobody's forcing drugs down anybody's throat. If I choose to take some form of sleeping pill from a friend who offers it after I've consumed three glasses of wine, that's MY RESPONSIBILITY. My friend does not have the power or the control to make these decisions for me and, if I choose to take it, my friend is not to blame if I suddenly drop dead. (Of course, I have no control over anger, grief, fear, and guilt once I'm gone.)
Second, how can a reader assume what pharmaceutical experience any of these women have had unless the author tells us?
And, finally, the author has the right to say whatever she likes. Just because the main character offers the Ambien to her friend doesn't necessarily mean she will administer it or follow through on her offer. The offer could be another way of saying to a friend, "Shut that fuc&ing trap already and go to sleep so I can write in my journal!" In this case, the Ambien offer is the kinder, more genteel choice - a true sign of enduring love and compassion.
"Second, alot of people are saying that Barb is so patient and kind, and she is saying how she think a long time before writing it, but I think that is not the truth...To me, this shows she was already planning to say bad things about the women even from the beginning, to "report all the dirt", and she just used them for that."
A professional actor would kill to observe such a colorful, "real-life" experience. If Barb conjured up the madcap idea of bringing six biddies together in Italy and saved-up enough money to finance this clever contrivance to serve the writing dream of her life, then I owe Barb more than just a simple congratulations. That Barb must be fuc&ing brilliant!
Given how the planning stages progressed and what was revealed, I get the strong sense that Barb was the most "used" individual in this group.
Every situation in life offers a give and take. So what if the creative individual takes more simply by observing. In my world we call that talent.
"Third, I want to say something of the young man she meets outside the hotel who is a waiter.
Isn't she a woman over fifty year old?"
Now I'm ready to punch delldee in the face. For fear of truly dispelling with colorful cuss words, I'll stop here.
ps Please refer to my comments above regarding "opinions."
About the young waiter.... Now, haven't people seen the movie "The Graduate"?

I see a Mrs. Robinson in the making.
"If you did not know it before, Barb, Italian women don't easily go around with some younger waiter they never met, it is not a custom here. And you don't "blend in" that way. You become more obvious, of course."
"I agree the story can be an American movie. Will be very funny, and typical."
Miaow!
delldee22 - you are being a bit tough on Barb, but it is obviously because you don't quite have a grasp of American idioms. To tell all the dirt does not mean that Barb is planning to tell bad things about the Divas, just that she plans to tell all. She obviously knew it would be amusing at best to travel with them, but just as obviously, didn't expect what she ended up with!
I'm also going to forgive Barb for offering Ambien after the Diva has had 3 glasses of wine. The one time I took Ambien was after 2 glasses of wine on a flight to Vietnam. I didn't know that you shouldn't do that (go ahead and flame me for being uninformed or just plain dumb - I deserve it) - an airsick bag never go such a good workout!
NYtravelsnob - I'm not faulting Barb, but not many people can make a good decision after 3 glasses of wine. That's why they should not be allowed to drive.
And Barb - don't worry about the nasty posts here - you are doing a great job with this and many, many of us are truly enjoying and learning from your wonderful prose. If you look at any of the long threads on Fodor's, you will see that there are always some negative responses. I think the # of negative posts here is much lower than most!
Can't wait for the rest!
Delldee22, I wouldn't worry that your opinion appears to contradict the majority. Not only is a diversity of opinion good for the board, but besides, of the 50,000 plus who have registered here, most don't post. So who knows what the 'majority' really think.
Remember, too, that on the Internet all of us are only who we say we are. For all we know, Barb and all of her Divas are writing this account together, and having a good laugh at our expense. Which probably hurts none of us very seriously, except for the point about the Ambien, which I agree Barb did not handle well [yet].
Now go easy about women over 50 years old. You'll be one yourself one day, and not only that, but remember: the great Italian actress Sophia Loren is closer to SEVENTY than 50, and still considered a knockout by men of many ages.
I think Sophia Lauren is actually 71!
It's too early, I thought the above post said she was 60....
AP, my edit crossed with your post. Indeed, the great Sophia was born on September 20, 1934, which makes her 71. I saw her in a French film a couple of years ago - a murder mystery/comedy, and darn it, I can't remember the title, but she was, and looked, absolutely fabulous.
Barb, thanks so much for the candid enthralling trip report. It's always appreciated when people who love travelling take the time to share their experiences, good and bad, with the rest of us, and you do it in a way that makes for superb reading. Please don't let a few dissenters put you off finishing this excellent report!
Cara Sue xx
"Now go easy about women over 50 years old. You'll be one yourself one day, and not only that, but remember: the great Italian actress Sophia Loren is closer to 60 than 50, and still considered a knockout by men of many ages."
I am more than 60. I know women of my age can be very nice looking. And Sophia Loren will be beautiful forever.
I am only saying that Italian women that I know don't go around with young waiters that they just met, and if they ever do, they will be much more discreet than this! it is not a custom here.
To the one who said you will punch me in the face, I think you are showing more about yourself than about me or what I said. Are you so violent with all who disagree with you? This is a sign of a small mind. Well I am not afraid of you.
It is still 200% wrong to offer drugs to someone who drank. If you punch me, I will only rise and say it again, because it is true.
Oh AP, it IS too early. I am confusing Sophia with Catherine Deneuve in "8 Femmes" - Ms. Deneuve is, of course, a mere spring chicken of 62.....
Oh AP, it IS too early. I am confusing Sophia with Catherine Deneuve in "8 Femmes" - Ms. Deneuve is, of course, a mere spring chicken of 62.....
Delldee, good for you! And I'm glad you agree with me about Sophia (who is great, even if I did momentarily confuse her with Catherine Deneuve.)
You mustn't worry that this tale is meant to be typical of anyone, Italian or American. And now I must stop editing, because I'm confusing people.
"NYtravelsnob - I'm not faulting Barb, but not many people can make a good decision after 3 glasses of wine. That's why they should not be allowed to drive."
I consume entire bottles without getting drunk. What are some of you girls drinking?
Well, all tongue-in-cheek commentary aside (every young-Italian-man/older-American-woman pun intended), I do NOT condone giving prescription medication to anyone who doesn't already have the prescription. And ADULT common-sense should dictate the decisions regarding alcohol use with prescription drugs. I'm no doctor, I'm no judge, and I don't tell friends what they should and should not do. That's how I define a friend.
Am I guilty of sharing my scripts with friends? You bet. I wouldn't have discovered Allegra had it not been for a friend who leant me one during a bad allergy attack while on location in some awful field. That single pill saved the job, took away my allergic reaction, and introduced me to an allergy medication with no side effects. (Granted, wine wasn't part of this discovery.)
I know nothing about Ambien. I'm a Xanax girl, and half-a-pill of the lowest dosage available does me just fine when I really need to get to sleep. If any friend asks me for one while we're traveling, I don't hesitate to give them one. However, I've never asked any of my friends if they want one. They have to ask first.
I've asked my doctor about drinking alcohol before my tiny dosage of Xanax. He said as long as I'm near a bed, I should expect no disaster to occur. I only take Xanax when I know I'll be in bed within 20 minutes of taking the pill.
...was that 5 or 10 mg of Ambien? I have such a high tolerance to drugs/alcohol, it takes twice as much to knock me out. The dentist gives me a whopping dose of gas and it barely phases me. One teeny ambien with a little alcohol won't kill her, make her addicted or anything else. These are not the narcotic pills of yesteryear..yep, alcohol and opiates/barbituates can be toxic.
delldee, life isn't much fun without drugs and booze.
Hi Barb,

Terrific read.
>...even though Eiffel had had a breakthrough with her fear of heights on Ischia and was somewhat cocky to start , it quickly vanished as soon as we started down the Amalfi Coast on our way to Positano. Let’s just say, we had to practically pry her fingers from the back of the seat in front of her to get her off at Positano ...<
My Lady Wife and I sympathize with both of you. She developed vertigo on the bus to Positano and could not take the bus again - even sitting on the landward side. We saw the AC from the water.
"To the one who said you will punch me in the face, I think you are showing more about yourself than about me or what I said. Are you so violent with all who disagree with you? ...Well I am not afraid of you"

Oh, sweetie, get over your bad self. I was poking a little fun at your dull, controlling, judgmental and puritan presumptions. I'm a black-belt, dear, so...be very afraid, 'cause this Xanax-poppin'-Sangiovese-guzzlin'-biatch can kick yo' azz.
I come to a travel forum for advice on where to stay, restaurant suggestions, sneaker/birkenstock arguments; layering v. down filled coats; recommendations regarding what others think as beautiful sights, cultural exchanges, etc. I enjoy the humor of most of the posters, get teary eyed at some of their kindnesses, enjoy the pretensiousness of some, the forcefulness of some, the ironic smart-a$$ answers of some...
Holier-than-thou, self-righteous moralisms, I sure can do without!
Older women, younger men...sheesh.
"Never in Italy" Jjjjeeeeessss....
Is it younger man (green-with-envy are you?)...or the fact he was a waiter? W hich is it that was so annoying?
Barb!?? Good for you! Bless you in all sincerity.
1. I'm thinking Felicity Huffman to play Barb.
2. Boy oh boy, there are for sure a whole second crew of Divas right here, aren't there?! People, get OFF the nattering and second-guessing about drugs, alcohol, food, weight, charming waiters, etc. Talk about judgmental! Just READ and knock off the superiority sniping! Do you really think you are required (or even entitled) to instruct Barb at this point? Do you really think she's required to hear it after going to the trouble of posting this long report? JUST NOT THE POINT!
3. We're lucky to be getting all this from Barb -- and what would you say if this all turned out to be fiction? It's still a HOOT! Repeat: just READ and enjoy or go somewhere else.
Since there are literally thousands of official group travel agencies out there, I wonder why Barb didn't just refer the Divas to one of them. She did not mention if the Divas were paying her for her services...hmmm...but since she took on the task of dealing with the Divas...and planning and re-planning itineraries, she definitely should have considered making herself the official, salaried Diva Tour Guide, or recommending them to a tour operator. Why plan a trip for a couple of friends...and 3 strangers?
I personally love to travel alone...and would be happy to disappear for months if I ever had money and time, without talking to anyone I know. That's travel to me!
But I have traveled to Greece with my big Greek-American family and a few close friends on several occasions and they were the most memorable journeys of my life. We are a very flexible and fun loving group...so it was usually easy. I'm sure we have a different view of Greece...as a wonderful homeland our parents had to leave behind for an anticipated better life. My oldest brother did "take charge" of the domestic travel and rooms...since he's in the business. But since he insisted that we visit together again when we can...I guess we were not too bothersome! I ended up just moving to Crete a few years later...easier commute to family reunions.
But many people don't even want to fly from LA to NYC alone. There are different people out there...many people want to travel alone but they are afraid to...it's the fear of the unknown. Which is the exciting part when I travel...to just get off the train if a village looks interesting...but can be the reverse for many. Why people are afraid to get a little exercise if they are fit to do so is a also a dreary sign of our times...climbing a few hills or flights of stairs is a fact of life in Europe...if anyone in Europe wants to visit historic monuments or take the metro...there aren't many elevators and escalators. Paris is a good example...a great walking city! And there are few shopping malls with escalators...but people are still shopping, shopping, shopping.
But since the Divas indicated early on that they might (hopefully) unintentionally make everyone else they travel with miserable...by bringing with them their fears about everything and anything, that was a big red light for our dear Barb. SMALL group travel (10 people or less), if arranged by local experts who are also working closely with the local community, can be a much more wonderful and rewarding experience...especially if it's bona fide ecotravel or educational travel...travel that gives back to the local community...not talking about Coco's latest line of pink suits with black trim here.
Poor Barb...hope she's recovered by now! Good news is that she will probably recover financially by publishing her story in the )))) Monthly.
Cheers,
Nikki Rose
This thread is now listed on the home page as number 1 under "Current Hot Topics".

Go, Barb.
I'm packing for Italy so no time to catch up!! God Bless with the baby and your daughter Barb!!
No disrespect to people who have posted their own adventures in this thread but I'd like to see it purged of all comments both positive and negative and reposted as a stand alone narrative of one person's trip.
Well, I'm off to guide a KIA, a smoker and a smoke detester. : D Wish me luck!!
kakalena
LOL! I've been giggling and chuckling out loud all morning; after having chanced upon this thread. HUGELY entertaining. LOL!
I don't know, Barb. If you go solo from now on will the trip reports be near as interesting?!
I'm personally hoping for sequels! <grin>
kakalena-
You can do that easily.
I'm a Mac user but I'm sure you can do the same on a PC.
Just click drag and copy the whole thing into a text editing program like MS Word or what ever you use, and go through it deleting all the other messages.
NYC Travel Snob- if you don't stop your posting, I won't stop laughing and I won't get any work done today!

No one could have let delldee have it better!
From a fellow one-bottle of wine guzzler.
One more post to a record thread! This is a very compelling read, Barb -- bit like having to peek at a road accident as you pass...

Have to add a note to the Ambien sidebar. I discussed with my doctor (great guy) whether or not to take it as a sleep aid on a long flight. In response, he told me about a red-eye flight he took from CA to NY. A number of passengers popped an Ambien or something like it on take-off, and promptly dozed off. Unfortunately, the plane had mechanical problems and had to return to LA. And back on the ground, they were still sound asleep... I think the crew had to scoop some folks out and plunk them down in the terminal to sleep it off. (Which is why you won't find me taking anything like that! If I can't sleep on the flight with my mask and earplugs, well, I'll be tired the next day. Won't kill me.)
Okay, now back to the subject at hand.
SB_Trvlr- I don't believe that story for a minute. How does your doctor know that all these people took Ambien? And how does he know how MUCH Ambien they took? I mean sure if you pop half a bottle you may be that knocked out depending upon your metabolism and tolerance for such drugs.
Gimme a break about the Ambien, people. Most anti- or alarmist comments I've heard about Ambien, especially on this board, are from people who have never taken it.
For me, I usually take two Ambien at the beginning of a long flight and proceed to drink two mini-bottles of wine throughout the duration of the flight. I'm still here. At most, it relaxes me, dulls the senses a tad, but my no means am I knocked out senseless. Obviously, it has different effects on everyone, but this is not a sleeping pill of the old time, Marilyn Monroe variety.
Except with words, I couldn't hurt a fly. I'm just jealous that Barb gets to have all the fun. Thank goodness she's so generous.
ps I, too, prefer reading her story without all the interruptions. Typically, I shut the phone/answering machine off when I anticipate a good bang. Thank goodness for cut-n-paste because this story deserves to be read TIVO-style.
NYFS - Bravo - now I know you and I could travel together! Simpatico. Come on people, do you really think I would force drugs on unsuspecting people!! I've used 5 mg Ambian for years now when I travel. Do I have a few glasses of wine over the course of an evening, yes, did I talk to my doc about this many years ago, yes. I made sure the first time I traveled to do a "test run" with it before I left the safety of my home. And if I take one, it's when I'm turning out the lights for the evening. FYI, D never took it. That's why I was tip toeing around. I would never presume to tell anyone else what they can and can't take and I think those of you who have a problem with my report, to either stop reading, or get off your f--king judgmental high horses and get a grip. Whew, that felt good!
BTW, I didn't flaunt NHF around Sorrento, we enjoyed some time together, why not??? This is 2005, I am single, certainly over the age of consent and even my 94 yr. Mom gave me a pat on the back, so there - put the claws back in and try to relax. Breath, breath.
NYFS - of course that should be "we" could travel together. Saying the f word got me all excited.
LET THERE BE NOT ONE MORE WORD ABOUT AMBIEN! PLEASE!
That a girl, Barb! Keep it coming!
Barb -- your report is so popular, it has also become a hot topic on slowtalk.com!
It would be wonderful if you post the report in it's entirety on slowtrav.com as well, so that people can just read your report without all the additional posts.
Still very much enjoying your report, Barb.
Interesting experiences with both Ambien and Dramamine. I take Ambien routinely when I travel, particularly if there's significant jet lag involved, and have never had a problem with rebound insomnia. If I take it more than three nights in a row I do find that the quality of my sleep is not perfect, but then it's rarely perfect under those situations (any situation in which I felt a sleep med might help) in any case.
I actually had a very bad experience with Dramamine (which is an over-the-counter antinausea med) recently, taking it during a long flight with anticipated turbulence (that ended up being very mild). I got very groggy (not really a problem since I was on the plane) but also pretty agitated (definitely not pleasant) and also had some very bad abdominal cramping (related, I think, to my gut simply stopping in response to the Dramamine).
I have to tell you what happens next will have some of you saying, no way, she is totally making this up, but I swear on my budgie Ricki’s grave, it is absolutely true and so bizarre.
The Divas decide on taking the “slow” boat back to Sorrento, which was supposed to take approx 1 hr. instead of the “fast” boat, which takes approx. 35 min. It was sunny, everyone was in a good mood, so I’m thinking the slow boat will be good. We settle into our deck chairs, all lined up by the railing, looking forward to the slow scenic trip home. Well, the trip started out with diesel fumes so bad, everyone on deck was almost choking. I had to cover my nose and mouth with my scarf. We now are watching the “fast” boat speeding out to sea. I’m thinking, hmmm. An hour into the trip, with the fumes a little more manageable now, we have picked up speed a little, which helps, the sun is fading and being quickly replaced with rather menacing dark clouds and the water is getting a little choppy. Not to worry though this old boat weighs tons and it would take a hurricane to send her to the bottom. About then the intercom starts crackling and the Captain is calling for someone – I think he said Umberto and minutes later, another crackle and Umberto? is singing O Solo Mio, a cappella. Suffice it to say he is no Pavorotti. We all clap when he is done and then he goes into his rendition of That’s Amore. More clapping and now he’s on a roll and moves into operatic arias. It is so funny, all the passengers are looking from one to the other and I see a crew member smiling and shrugging his shoulders. I’m wondering if someone should get the hook out soon. My cell phone rings twice, but I can’t hear whoever it is between the singing and the noise from the engines. It was really entertaining though and certainly helped to pass the time. KIA now points out that there is a tall, blonde woman with a very low cut peasant top, steering the boat. We all look. Sure enough she’s steering while the Captain is looking on with a big smile on his face apparently giving her directions. He looks all pumped up and is strutting about. Is she in training or is she a passenger??? The boat has now slowed down considerable and everyone is looking at their watches - Now all the crew members seem to be up front and our new Captain is flipping her hair and accepting a glass of something – is it wine?? No!! It is getting very cold, windy and we are rocking and rolling and there seems to be some kind of a party going on in the wheel house. We all move inside to get warm. My cell phone rings again, but I still can’t hear, I’m thinking it’s NHF, so I just yell, I will call you when I get back….
2+ hrs. later, we slowly pull into the Marina at Sorrento and our blonde Captain is getting a standing ovation from the crew. I am so tired, I decide not to meet up with the Divas for dinner and will either eat at Vela Bianca, or at the hotel.
After a long, hot, relaxing shower and I’m into my fluffy bathrobe, with my CD playing some good Italian music, my phone rings. I answer in my new sultry, voice because I’m sure it’s NHF, and a man says “who are you”… I say, “who are you”? He says, why are you calling me?” What the …. He said he got a call from me?? He said he called back and he said I told him I would call him when I got back??. It turns out that somehow my cell phone had accidentally called this complete stranger – Allesandro, who lives in Napoli. He asked who I was and where I was. I said Sorrento and he wanted to know why I was there (can you believe this conversation) and I said I am on vacation and I asked him what he did – he said he worked in the Office of the Mayor. I told him I was going to Napoli tomorrow and he said, well you have my number, give me a call when you get there. I have no idea if this man is 80 or 20!! and of course I do not call him, but how bizarre is that.
Sorry, who is NHF again?
I smell a couple of movie titles:
"Slow Boat To Sorrento"
"An Ambien Sgroppino"
"Positano Cackle"
"Six American Hens and the Young-Italian Rooster"
"Gone With D's Breakwind"
"Six Travelers and a Funeral"
"How to Pick Up an Italian Waiter"
"The Big Italian Chill"
"Lost In Bigoted and Loud Translation"
"A Fish Called Dee"
I wish I had time for more. Gotta grab 'em as they come.
NHF=New Handsome Friend (the waiter)
Thanks, rsb99.
How about "Mrs. Robinson et Les Divas Vont en Bateau du Côte d'Amalfi"?
In one fell swoop, you get a Jacques Rivette reference, an American reference and an Italian reference.
You really can't beat this. It covers both the high-brow and the low-brow and will appeal to both the Europeans and Americans.
Jacques Rivette movie:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071381/
(I don't know this one, I must admit. But the title is unforgettable.)
Barb and Snob: I vote for Dianne Wiest.
Barb, you make the point that your detractors don't have to read your report, but you don't seem to grasp that your point applies universally. You, in your turn, don't have to read responses that you don't like, still less respond to them. That you do is your privilege, just as it is everyone's privilege to (with a civil tone, of course) either agree or disagree with your views.
I don't see delldee as exactly having a monopoly on judgement and criticism, not to mention other things. After all, isnt't the reason this report is so compelling is because Barb is judging her friends' behaviour? True, one may feel they deserve to be so judged, but the point is, judgement and criticism aren't wrong per se. It is mainly only when someone claims an exclusive privilege to judge, that one is in the wrong.
You might be tired of hearing about Ambien and so forth, but Barb, you did insist that part of the purpose of the forum, in your view, was to inform and to post cautionary notices. Too late now to bemoan the fact that when the world wants to punish you, they give you what you ask for!!
As to the idea that words are innocuous because they don't 'hurt' anyone, this might not find favour with the Fodors moderators. 'Twould be a pity if they were to suspend the thread (as they have been known to do before) because the tone got a little too personal. If I read the audience correctly, they would indeed be hurt, or at least sorry, if this occurred.
I don't take anything stronger than lots of water during a long flight, so all this talk about Ambien is WAAAY above my head.
In the August, 2005, issue of Bon Appetit, on the very last page, the "Feedback" page, there is a picture of Sophia Loren. She looks gorgeous. Any 25-year old waiter would probably consider it the highlight of his life if she even looked at him - LOL!
From the interview:
"Q: And you're still cooking?
"A: I've been cooking all my life. I don't tend to follow recipes. The time I spend in the kitchen is an adventure."
And, there you have it, it's not just her beauty, it's that spirit, that elan, that gusto for life that Sophie Loren has which is so appealing.
On a more serious note:
As a fence-sitter, I gain no friends by saying the following: for some people, English is not their first language and this trip report, in stark black and white, can sound very cruel at times. Humor is always an exaggeration and usually makes fun of someone/some people - remember the old joke "How many xxxxx does it take to screw in a lightbulb?" Of course, we all know the whole joke is based on an exaggeration and so we laugh.
But, with original humor such as Barb's, it's not always that obvious, and so it would seem like Barb is having a whole lot of fun at the expense of the Divas.
I say all this in defense of Faina, for whom English is either a second, a third, or even a fourth language. Faina herself has a great sense of humor. When delilee (sp?) posted and seemed to indicate that she (an Italian speaker?), too, didn't find this narrative that funny, it just struck me how language-specific, culture-specific humor can be sometimes. Since this is an international forum, not every reader is going to "get" the humor of this thread.
And, Barb, as one of the first posters - almost a zillion posters ago, I am still enjoying your "story". You have a wonderful way of taking us all on your trip with you and making your adventures so vividly ours too. Please continue!
111op, I have that Rivette film, it comes in two cassettes, and it's like an Alice in Wonderland tale. One of my favorite films.
Interesting, cigalechanta. Imdb says something about a haunted house, but as I said, I don't know the movie. I think that I've only seen one Rivette movie ("Va Savoir").
I'll keep this one in mind.
Dinner was at Vela Bianca, and for those of you who have not been there, I highly recommend you give it a try. The seafood is wonderful -- they bring a cart with a variety of whole fish for you to choose from. When it is done, the waiters filet it at tableside and serve it with a flourish. The antipasto is also excellent. My 10% discount from Il Faro helps, but it is a little pricey. A little romance, wink wink, ends this evening and a very crazy day. Tomorrow we are off to Napoli, and our last day in Sorrento.
Today KIA is in charge of Napoli. She said really wanted to go to the Archeological Museum and to Da Michael’s (sp) for the famous Neopolitan pizza. Because I have not been to the museum and would like to see it too, I am along for the ride. We take the metro from the train station, which puts us about a block from the Museum. While on the train to Napoli, I had asked KIA if she had checked to make sure the Museum would be open today and what the hours were. She said she had not checked, but for heavens sakes, it’s a national museum, and it’s a weekday, surely it will be open. I’m thinking, why wouldn’t you check something like that out? Well you know what I’m going to say next – the Museum is closed. KIA is so upset! She stops some men walking down the street – why??? she doesn’t speak any Italian and why would she expect these men to know what she wanted. I hear her ask in English – “why is the museum closed?” and she points to the museum. The man shrugs and looks at his friend and the friend pantomimes someone sleeping and says something to her and she comes back to us and says “It’s closed for restorations”. What!!!! How in the world did she get restoration from what they said. I am not saying anything because she is obviously very upset at not getting to see the Museum, but I really have my doubts. So now she is on a mission to find Da Michaele’s which she is firmly convinced is down by the water and looking at the map she has riipped from her Lonely Planet book, appears to be at the bottom of the main street leading from the Museum to the water, Via Toledo, I know it well as I have walked the length of it. I tell them I know how to get to the bottom and start walking that way, but she insists on asking at a news stand – again with no idea whatsoever of what the woman is telling her, she points in the opposite direction. I am so tempted to let her lead the Divas on a wild goose chase, but because I am hungry and just want to get to the damn restaurant already, I contradict her and say I think it’s this way. If looks could kill.
On the way, we pass an open air market, and Eiffel is zoning in. She is bargaining like crazy and we just stop and watch her in action. She gets into a bargaining battle with the Asian woman running the show and they go nose to nose. She is walking away and the Asian woman reluctantly gives in. Victory!! Well, we get to the end of the street and are standing in the huge Piazza. I look at her map again, as I don’t think the place is around here. I have stayed not far from here before I have never come across it. It is numbered 33 on the map. KIA once more asks some passing men where Da Michaele is. They start pointing way off in the distance and saying something about the train station?? They then say, no good, and give her a card for another restaurant – probably his brothers’, ha. J takes a look at her map and says, gee 33 isn’t Da Michaels, 83 is Da Michaels. Turns out KIA is a little vain and hates to wear her glasses, even though she really needs them, especially to read. She has gotten 33 and 83 mixed up. We are miles away from her restaurant. The Divas are now looking like they are going to turn on her. We walk a few blocks and settle on Rosati, Ristorante, Pizzeria. Sometimes you just wander into a place you have no idea about and it turns out to be a gem. This place was. KIA is sulking, and insisting that the only pizza to eat in Naples is tomato and mozzarella and garlic. Well I know the Margaherita, but garlic??? She asks the waiter if he has garlic pizza. He looks at her like – another crazy tourist and recommends the marinara. For once D does not order the same thing as me – everyone orders pizza, and I stick with antipasta, which looked good when I was walking past it. I’m not a big Neopolitan pizza fan, I prefer the thin Roman kind. Of course marinara is not garlic and KAI is really disappointed. I do feel badly for her that her whole promising day is a big flopola. As a side note – the Archeological Museum is closed on Tuesdays. We were there on Tuesday.
Back to Sorrento with our stomachs full and maybe we can get a little last minute shopping in before packing our bags and having our Farewell Sorrento dinner.
"Since this is an international forum, not every reader is going to "get" the humor of this thread.

Darling, in these here waters it's sink or swim.
Since I don't "get" much British humor (I rarely laughed at "Absolutely Fabulous"), it would never occur to me to post on a British-humor-thread and criticize the humor or, god forbid, write about my issues with certain things said when, in fact, I didn't get the joke. In cases like these, I think silence is taking the high road and the best course of action.
I think Sue_xx_yy needs to step out of her Ambien-contact haze. Expressing an opinion and reaction in a very descriptive voice about a life-long friend or travel-mate is VERY different from "judging" someone you've never met. Words barely tell the whole story so jumping to any conclusions about the author is completely inappropriate (but try and stop anyone). The author has the right to set any untrue or distorted record straight and that is appropriate.
Of course words can hurt but I see no serious or vindictive malice on display here. It all seems fun to me (but I am edgier than most). Let's give the editors the benefit of the doubt and hope they see all the brilliant colors of humor, too.
This is a rare moment in my four-year tenure here. I have a feeling Fodor's will recognize this special treat and do the right thing.
Barb,
I know you're not making this up, unless you have the most incredible imagination ever...this is too funny! Watch out Ya Ya Sisterhood...
And I'm sure there must be something about the Italian phone system...my daughter was living there for 6 months and one night at 2:30 in the morning she got a call and this woman started yelling at her to stop flirting with her boyfriend and that she would break her neck the next time she did...and my daughter informed her that she didn't even KNOW her boyfriend, or her, and started swearing back about her waking her up at 2:30 in the morning...all this is in Italian of course...before they finally figured out it was a wrong number...(but it was great Italian practice)...
I'm sorry it's a final dinner...for us, of course, not for you....
Well, after seeing Meryl Streep in "Prime" this weekend, I vote for her for Barb's role. Diane Weist would be good if Meryl is unavailable.
Movie Titles:
Six Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest.
Barb Interrupted
Viva Los Divas
I will need a 12 step program when this tale is over. I do not want it to end.
This trip report is coming to an end?
I'm confused, but I didn't follow the itinerary that closely.
So it was Rome -> Florence -> Sorrento?
That's it?
Easytraveler, I completely disagree, as a Portuguese native speaker that I am, born and raised with very conservative standards.
I would blame these posters' criticism much more in some degree of identification with some of the divas, and a high level of provincialism, regardless their citizenship or native languages. If I'm not wrong, not only latin language native speakers took badly this Barb and the Divas' tale.
Trevelers or readers of a travel forum, no matter where they come from, should be open minded, which is IMHO one of the first requirements to enjoy a trip outside their own navel, be it traveling themselves or through the stories of others.
That said, one last word about Ambien: no one is to be held responsible for what others take or not take. These women are all grown up adults, no one is mentally disabled or incapable of doing their own judgement of what they should or not take, drink, do. They are not children or babies, for GS, and Barb is not their sitter. Otherwise, Ambien's info is readily available on the net, and it's not dangerous, or at least, not more dangerous than Avil, Dramamine, and other drugs sold by the counter. Now, enough is enough!
Barb, the Marinara is garlic, yes, and tomato, lots of, and sometimes anchovies and oregano. What it is not is muzzarela... Regardless, I hope she, KIA, I mean, at least enjoyed her Marinara, whether it had gerlic or not, as much as you your antipasto, or we're all enjoying your tale of the Divas.
And NYCTS, and think that what Barb has is an international flair for telling stories, in such a way that any of us can relate, unless those with a bitter soul or a single, closed mind.
We all met at Fauno’s Bar and I suggest that we could try La Laterno for our last dinner. I’ve eaten there before and it has been consistently good. This might have been one of their off nights, maybe because it was very busy. We had a nice dinner, I order grilled veal chops with spinaci and even order semi-freddo for dessert, even though I hardly ever eat desserts – hey, it’s the last night. The Divas are really loud tonight. D is screeching, Eiffel is bragging about all her bargains, everyone is very exuberant. This would not be such a big deal, except the restaurant has mostly what appears to be local people dining tonight and they are very quiet and are now staring at our table with looks of pure disgust. The waiters are, I think, purposely leaving us alone. I have to say, this has been one the hardest part of this trip for me. I hate to call attention to myself in the best of circumstances and I am very uncomfortable. Scared has joined us for our last dinner. I really felt bad for her as she missed out on a lot of this trip due to illness. But I have to say, she did it without complaining and with no whining. She is a lovely and gracious woman with a lot of class. She is just not used to traveling without her husband and I think the whole trip was very hard on her. So, the Divas are finished eating, almost in record time and are looking around for the waiter. He’s probably hiding. Now they are getting louder and more vocal about where the heck the waiter is and this would NEVER happen at home. All of a sudden KIA stands up and puts her hands on her hips, then D jumps up and does the same thing. I just couldn’t believe it. I have never been so embarrassed. People are staring at us. I had just had it! After the fiasco of the day, our final night in one of my favorite places in the world, lots of people would give an arm and a leg to be able travel to a place like this and these spoiled, insensitive women are acting like badly behaved children. In a very calm, but firm way, I told them to sit down. KIA said, in a mocking tone, “Oh are we embarrassing you”. I said, you are making a spectacle of yourselves and I am embarrassed for you. They sat down and the waiter appeared with our check. The usual, haggling over the bill ensued. I handed Eiffel my share and told them the limo driver would be picking them up at 8:00+ sharp, starting with the Lorelei. (I had called and confirmed this with Mr. Cuomo – who by the way is a very nice man and he assured me there would be no extra charge for pick up at three different hotels). I could hardly wait to get out of there.
I walked slowly down the hill, trying to salvage my sanity and savor my last evening in Sorrento. I talked to NHF on the phone and we said our goodbyes. I will miss him, but I have no illusions about our time together. Hey, I’m thinking I may never be in Sorrento again and I may never have romance like that again, but I have no regrets and will always treasure the memory.
Our driver is right on time and we are off to Napoli and the train back to Roma and Hotel Residenza Farnese – our big splurge of the trip – two triples for 300 E each. J,D and I are sharing. J has been the calm, rational Diva of the group and I really appreciated her help. I know we will have no problem sharing this triple, but as usual D is the wild card and I do mean wild.
Arriving in Rome, I practically had to take the Diva’s hands and walk them to the taxi line because they want so badly to get into the first taxi they see. They can’t understand why they have to stand in this long line, when there are tons of taxis almost begging them to get in. A beggar woman is beside us with her hand out, saying something in almost a whisper over and over, I am ignoring her. All of a sudden, D yells “Get away from me”. I am stunned, as is everyone around us. Two men run over – are they officials from the station? I am not sure, but the beggar moves away very fast, she looks scared! D says, “ I read somewhere you are supposed to do that”. Wow.
I do get burned on the taxi though. Even patiently waiting in line and getting into what I thought was a legit taxi -had a number and a meter, the guy said because of some demonstration he was going to have to charge us 40 E. I said, no way, and did manage to get him down to 30 E.. Because I was tired and just wanted to get the hotel, I asked D and J if they agreed and they did. So off we went. Apparently, Eiffel, Scared and KIA’s taxi guy said the same thing and they all got out and got into another taxi and they paid 16E! KIA will never let me live that one down.
The Hotel Residenza Farnese is a place I’ve walked by many times while in Rome and I have always dreamed of staying there. The entrance and lobby is lovely as is the breakfast room and billiards room. Our room – I think 310 was not lovely. It had all the amenities, like three little slippers, tons of bath products, a fruit bowl and bottle of wine, but the room itself was very shabby. I was quite honestly disappointed, but by this time just plain tired and quite frankly, just wanting this trip to be over with. Which is not like me. I hate when trips end and am always reluctant to leave.
On the other hand, the other Divas room on the 4th floor, was amazing. Beautiful décor, a little sitting area with a settee and beautiful crown moldings and just everything I thought our room would be. J complains to the concierge, but she gets the imfamous shrug and basically, that’s all they have look.
"I talked to NHF on the phone and we said our goodbyes. I will miss him, but I have no illusions about our time together. Hey, I’m thinking I may never be in Sorrento again and I may never have romance like that again, but I have no regrets and will always treasure the memory."

Wait, uh.... Did NHF "spend the night" at one point?
Who'll play NHF in the movie version?
The Plot not only thickened, It boiled over. Loved it all.
re: NHF -- I know he is not an Italian actor, but I am picturing that lovely Mexican hottie (and very good actor as well) who was in "Y Tu Mama Tambien" and "Motorcycle Diaries."
Like many of you, I have done little work today. This is the most entertaining thing I've read in ages.
I suggest Olivier Matinez of "Unfaithful"
and "Horseman on the roof."
Diane Labe is Barb.
I think that Barb's coy use of the "wink wink" phrase probably means that something occurred.
I think this one:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0305558/
Gael García Bernal
I didn't see Motorcycle Diaries, but I did like Y Tu Mama Tambien.
I think that the movies version should focus more on the budding romance between Barb and NHF.
Who cares about the Divas?
Sorry, Martinez and Lane.
When did she write "wink wink," bellastar?
The comments make her report difficult to read. Can you give me the time and date? As entertaining as it is, I don't really have the patience to read it word for word.
Gee, 111op, a good reader has to learn how to read between the lines ( or between the winks..). heheheh...
"A little romance, wink wink, ends this evening and a very crazy day. "
And Barb has picked Julia Roberts to play her, so I guess we should look for someone who has at least a beautiful smile as she does, besides that acting skills that Julia, doesn't. And it an't Merryl Streep, besides she's much too old to play Barb.
Great story Barb. Now if it were me, I would have canned Napoli and spent the day with NHF!!!!!
I got an e-mail from my friend this morning, who is a member and chapter queen of the Red Hat Society. I attend functions now and then but NOT my thing on a regular basis. Some group has a trip planned to France, including Paris, in the not so distant future. I was thinking about this when reading about the Divas. I can't imagine in my wildest dreams going with THAT group. I can see them now, getting off the plane in Paris with red hats and purple boas flying!!! Oh lordy lordy!!!! Spare me please!!!!! LOL
For the record, I am also not American, yet I am thoroughly enjoying this post. And although it happens to be about a bad experience, I enjoy it because Barb writes beautifully.
Thanks, G.
op111, why don't you click on Barb, so that this thread will show on the left column. And then, by clicking on it, you get to read it with all Barb's posts shown with a grey background. This way, you can read only hers, and ignore the others'.
Otherwise, the "wink wink" thing is written at the end of the first paragraph of Barb's post at 2:51 PM.
I've been thinking about this - sorry Julia, but it has to be Diane Lane and Olivier Martinez with Orlando Bloom as stand-in perhaps - or no deal, sorry.
Thanks Ceci:

Author: Barb
Date: 11/01/2005, 02:51 pm
Dinner was at Vela Bianca.... A little romance, wink wink, ends this evening and a very crazy day.
Wink wink indeed. Was it good?
For the NHF I vote for the sexy Italian guy that Diane Lane falls for in Under the Tuscan Sun! WOW!!!! :">
111op - I never wink and tell.
Maybe you kiss and tell?

Why don't you e-mail me the story? I'm very discreet.
Still loving it, Barb. Where do I sign up for the Non-Diva Fodor Filles trip to Italy?

Re sharing drugs with friends: I guess you can tell which of us went through the '60's and which of us just said no.
Probably a stupid observation but "DIVA" backwards is "AVID" -- or to put it another way, "AVID" reversed is "DIVA." So we have a possible name for those who think they would make a good, non-"Diva" traveling companion group. IMHO, I think 4 is maximum number and fewer is better. I suspect Barb is too polite to say it, but she probably still thinks solo is best.
The most frustrating aspect of this report is trying to find where you are up to when returning to the post!! I don't want to miss a bit!!
A great read - definately Bette Midler for Eiffel Tower and Diane Keaton would have to fit in somewhere surely? Maybe J?
I still have some shopping to do and I know where I want to go, so I tell D and J what my plans are and that we can get together for lunch before that if they want. I take them to Ecco Bomba to see GianCarlo the owner and Omar Sharif look alike. He is always such a character and I know he will charm the pants off them. Well, D was all giggly and loving every moment of his attentions. She even asked him if he had a vespa and would take her for a ride!! He told her he wished he did because nothing would give him more pleasure. Yah I bet. Anyway, she loved it.
I can feel my battery wearing down as I do the last of my shopping, picking up the requested Shevchenko soccer shirt for my 5 yr. old grandson and a bracelet and belt for my granddaughter. Eiffel, Scared and KIA need to eat before 5:00, so D, J and I head out about 7:30 and just walk across the piazza to Da Giovanni. It’s starting to rain and is rather chilly, so I just have a big piping bowl of pasta figoli, which was outstanding by the way, bread and a little vino rosso and call it a day – a big day tomorrow.
Believe it or not, D is tired and goes to sleep after only talking about an hour, J is pretty much ignoring her and I am trying to write in my journal. My last entry says:
I can’t believe the trip I’ve been planning for all these months is now over. I can’t say I am sorry, as this has been a stressful and harrowing experience, to say the least. At this point in my previous trips, I am usually feeling very sad and quite emotional about leaving and going home. Not so this trip. I cannot tell you how glad I will be to say goodbye to the Divas.
Eiffel, even though she is loud and has done absolutely no planning ahead of time for this trip, except pick out really stunning outfits, has no curiosity whatsoever and really doesn’t stray too far from pizza and lasagna, was a real trooper in so many ways. She provided some much needed laughs along the way and most importantly, did not take herself too seriously.
KIA and I will never be friends. She is small-minded and is a control-freak. She does not know how to compromise and will never be able to venture out of her tiny comfort zone. Even when she was in one of the most beautiful countries in the world.
J and I will always, hopefully, be good friends. D will probably be talking about this trip for the next 20 yrs. and boring all her friends with every minute detail and then repeating it over and over. But not with me.
Maybe the dog man of Sorrento will come and stay with Scared. If he did, she would open her doors and welcome him in. She’s sweet and has just led a very sheltered life. This trip was just too much for her.
So, if there is one lesson to be learned in all this. For all my good intentions, it just didn’t work. I will NEVER do this again. From now on it’s solo traveling for this Diva.
Our limo driver, which I had arranged, arrives on time – he is a hoot. We know his whole life story by the time we get to the airport. He reminds me so much of Roberto Benigni, it’s uncanny. We check in and KIA is arguing with the man saying she must have a bulk head seat. Grrr. Once we get to our gate, everyone pretty much goes their separate ways. Checking out duty-free, getting coffee, I go to pick up some Interior Decorating Mags for the newstand. We have 20 minutes to boarding, we are all sitting there, and my phone rings. It’s NHF! He has called to tell me how he has been thinking about me and just wanted to let me know how much he has enjoyed our time together, wishes me a good flight home and hopes that we can see each other again if I ever return to Sorrento. The Divas are sitting there with their mouths open. Eiffel is saying gee, how romantic, D says the same. KIA says, “he probably does that with every tourist he sees”.
I walk on to the plane with a smile on my face. Mille grazie NHF and Ciao Roma.
I have loved reading every little bit Barb! I have had 3 new books sitting here, but this is much better reading than those are I am sure. I had to laugh about no tans for you, with being from the PNW. I totally understand as I am from Oregon, lol!
Benissimo, bravo, Barb! But I can't say I'm not sorry that you finished your report, I wish there were more.. sigh...
Anyway, I'm glad you got this call from NHF to say Ciao, Bella before you left, lighting up your Italian farewell a bit.
I'll surely edit your report and print it, because I want to re-read it all at once. And I'll keep my fingers crossed hoping that someone in the movie industry gets to read your report!!
Tante grazie, Barb!
I'm exhausted! I can only imagine how you must have felt. You really are a wonderful writer. The postscript wrapped up all the loose ends so nicely.
Thanks for hanging in there, both on the trip and in writing your story.
Wow! As others have expressed more eloquently, I have loved your tale! Thank you.
Thank you as well. What a great read. What a trip-from-hell. (I've had trips from Purgatory, but this is Dante-esque!)
Barb:
Hire a screenwriter..this could be a really good movie
Aloha!
Brava! Tante grazie.
Barb
Thanks for finishing your report in the face of some truly supercilious, smug, self-righteous and spiritless individuals.
I'm really sorry that your trip was marred so much by some of your companions but am glad that you were still able to salvage some great experiences, especially your sweet holiday romance.
As others have said, bravissima and here's a toast to your next trip - hoping it's nothing like this one and everything that you dream it to be!
Barb,
Thank you so much for taking the time to post this. You are a fantastic writer. I have the same touch of sadness I get when I finish a really good book. Please, please tell us that you'll be taking another trip soon! While waiting for new chapters of this report, I read your report from last spring. Also wonderful!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I have also enjoyed reading every bit of this report.
Thank you Barb for sharing and I do hope you go on another trip soon..I cannot wait to hear more
even without Divas, I am sure it will be entertaining~
Oh, Barb, how dull tomorrow will be with no more Divas to read about. We'll all have to suffer through withdrawal. Loved, loved, loved your story and felt I was right there with you (OMG, what a ghastly thought). And I agree with that hunky Oliver Martinez from "Unfaithful" to play your cute waiter.
Barb: Thanks for taking us along on the ride of a lifetime! My hat is off to you for surviving the trip and still being able to come home with a sense of humor and some great memories.
When the picture's out don't forget to mention my casting
Bravo.
I agree with Hawaiiantrveler. Hire a screenwriter (or a lawyer) immediately and protect your story. Some enterprising reader could steal it and put on their own show! Great reading!
Barb,
Thank you so much for the amazing trip report. You are an excellent story teller. I admire your strength on your journey and hope you will be able to return to Italy soon.
Congrats on finishing one of the most entertaining and well written trip reports ever to appear on this board. I second the suggestion to copyright this story immediately! It really is a classic and would make a delightful movie
Barb: I concur with the others. Forward your trip report to Nora Ephron so she can polish it up and get it ready for the big screen. Thanks so much for entertaining us for the past few days.
A GREAT ending!!! LOVE it.
Barb-
Bravo, loved every bit of the story. Good for you getting your groove on with your Italian NHF. I'm only sorry to see the story end. Please promise to share all of your trips on Fodors. You honestly have a wonderful sense of humor and have done a lovely job of painting each scene for us.
thank you!
PS What will I read tomorrow??
Bravo Bravo Bravissimo! Thank you for the fun
Barb, thanks for a most enjoyable read. I was glued to your trip report. And thanks for finishing it so fast. We have been talking about it on the Slow Travel message board too!!
You are most welcome to post it on Slow Travel as a trip report, but I agree with everyone here - get it published (maybe send it to a magazine?)
Pauline
P.S. I am from Vancouver originally and I think two of those Divas are old friends of mine!!
Barb,
Thank you sooooooooo much for your great trip report. I was speaking to a friend and I had mentioned going to Rome next year, she said oh we should go together!! After reading this it's a definetly a no go. She has a few control issues of her own!!
P.S. U go with your bad self and your NHF.. I am tired of seeing this tired old haggared 80 year old men with 20 somethings on their arms..
I think Gabrielle's gardner from Desperate Housewives should play your NHF!!
Fabulous!
And I think there is potential to market the film version as an instructional tool for therapists in training. The subtitle that has been running through my subconscious is "Anxiety Fest, the Movie" or * The Autumn of My Menopausal Italian Vacation.* This story could be the perfect vehicle for teaching about anxiety as an underlying motivator for so many behaviors. Students could learn to write psycho-social assessments, necessary in the mental health field, based on these colorful characters. And then the Diagnosis....!
And, yes, I do know that it may not be PC to comment on hormonal influences in our lives, but I gotta wonder about the role that Stage of Life plays in folks' tolerances for new experiences and things unaccustomed. Some become more and some less tolerant.
Aren't human beings grand?
I, like your other fans, regret the story has come to an end. However, your ending was superb...loved the call from NHF and your wrap up of the Divas.
This is what life is made up of-memories...some good and some bad.
The best to you.
Gail
Barb, you really should consider slapping a copyright on your story and shopping it around. Someone like Michael Patrick King (formerly exec producer of Sex and the City) would just have a ball with it. And if Bette is not available for the Eiffel part, consider Dolly Parton. And don't ask me why, but I keep seeing Michelle Pfeiffer as Barb.
Boundless gratitude for the entertainment you have provided!
Barb, what can I say? Everyone already has said it. You have a large fan club as I am sure you noticed! A book, a movie, I can imagine what a hit each would be. And the ending of your trip report is precious. I am glad you got on the plane with a smile. Mille grazie!
Now that you have become my nightly habit, Barb, I just don't know what I will do tomorrow night.....maybe ambien will have to fill in for you!
Even though your report is now officially over maybe your could come up with some sequel episodes that you forgot about or that you skipped over early on in your report, before you knew that you had throngs of people hanging on your every word...We need more!!!
Any chance for a digital online picture album?
If this truly is THE END I have to thank you for your generous spirit in telling this tale, and rising above all the 'nasties' that come out of the woodwork...I've experienced a few of them myself, and found them quite upsetting.
You have an exceptional gift of writing and if you haven't already pursued it you should! And if you have anything published you must share your byline with all of us here at fodors so we can follow your journeys to come.
To Barb-
I don't believe one word you wrote. I swear this is the script from a movie with Sophia Loren and Marcello Mastroianni.
Yes, yes, pictures, pictures!!!!!!
Thank you for sharing your trip with us, Barb.
I truly enjoyed reading every single word!
I belong to another travel website, and your story is being "advertised" there as well!
As Lawrence Welk would have said.... Wunerful, Wunerful, Wunerful!
Even tho this thread has about a gagillion replies, I want to read your entries again.
I vote for Diane Wiest for the "Barb" role.
Many thanks!
Barb-
What a great report! While it didn't turn out the way you would have liked, there are memorable experiences the DIVAs created that will crop up in your conversation in the future and it will bring a smile as you recall the incident.
Some of our best travel stories the ones where we got lost or did something embarrassing, or things just did not go right. I think you have topped the list!
Thanks for sharing your very unique trip!
I stumbled onto this thread while searching for winter-vacations and what an amazing read! I just could not stop reading till I got to the end. You truly are a very gifted writer.
I just came back from a paris trip with an old friend, and yes, there were moments when I gritted my teeth. We talked about it and decided that we needed to have some time-outs where we did our own thing. Still, I decided I will be travelling solo in the future, even if there are moments where I really want to share it with someone.
Mille Grazie Barb! And Brava!!!
Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
And another thing...
For the title of this soon to be travel blockbuster, I am casting my vote for "Good Intentions"
P.S. Barb, I have a NWA discount travel coupon I'd be happy to pass on to you provided you promise NOT to take a Diva with you...let me know if you want it...it's good for travel completed by Jan 31 (figure you should be recuperated by then!)
This movie might need to have a crowd scene weighing the pros and cons of what the characters are doing......maybe some Fodorites would like to be extras.
Barb...It was suggested on another forum to read your "Trip Report" and I have stayed up way too late, for me, because it was absolutely impossible to stop reading it.
Thank you so much...twas just wonderful of you to share it all with everyone.
Barb now you will have your very own boyfriend in Sorrento. I hope you both end up very happy together and if you have babies they will be cousins to your new grandbaby. Your daughter must be so happy for you this is such a happy ending. It shows that a grandma can live happyily ever after with a young fella.
I cannot believe I only JUST discovered this thread this morning, and I got hooked. Made me late for work, and then I kept the fodors window open all day so I could sneak a read every so often at work.
I agree with everyone else, you are a saint and that was a truly horrible trip! Having had a TCFH myself, I can totally relate to your experience--except yours was 5 times worse! for those that criticized you....someday, they will have a TCFH and they will look back on this thread and understand.
I enjoyed every last bit of your trip report, not just because you had such a surreal(?) time but also because you had some other wonderful details to share.
Does D have an alcohol problem? Just wondering if that was part of her psychosis!!
Anyway, thank you so much Barb. Thank you from everyone in Fodorville! I am also spoiled by solo travel....nothing quite like it. But we'd probably make very good travel partners!
p.s. I, too, am dying to see photos!!!!
Uh Peeky, cousins? Try that again LOL. And I don't think Barb will be having any babies. Time to go to bed Peeky, you are not making sense. Good night!!
LOL..peeky, what ARE you smokin'? Nighty night dear.
NO! NO! NO!!!! It cannot be over.....
Please do not post pictures, I would be soooo tempted to look at them and I really want to cling to my wonderful mental images.
Thanks Barb, for a GREAT report.
Thanks for a great report, Barb.


>I talked to NHF on the phone and we said our goodbyes. I will miss him, but I have no illusions about our time together. Hey, I’m thinking I may never be in Sorrento again and I may never have romance like that again, but I have no regrets and will always treasure the memory. <
"I walked back to the hotel in the rain."
Actually, Seamus' suggestion, "Good Intentions," is great for a manuscript title.
Concerning posting pictures which would include your travel partners, or speculating on the possible alcohol problems of one of them, I would worry about you unless you first talk to your lawyer and made sure the financial or other rewards to you are worth the risk of being sued.
I loved your report and see nothing wrong with describing the behavior of your travel companions, so long as none of us know who they are. I'd be leery of compromising anyone's privacy, however.
THANK YOU! You have brought joy and romance into another 50 something heart. And yes, 50 can be very beautiful and dare I say sexy! I just don't think a younger woman could have written such a intriguing tale. Glad you had some romance in the middle of all the yuck!
Bravissima, Barb !

I vote for Antonio Banderas as NHF
Barb, thank you! thank you! What an incredible report! You have inspired me to start writing again.
Barb, that was such fun. I really, really enjoyed reading that. You sound like a great person to travel with!!
As for the detractors who talked about ambien for probably hundreds of posts, I have this to say--Christ, if I were travelling with these dames, I probably would have slipped them all mickeys on a nightly basis!!!!!!!!!
looking forward to my first trip to italy in february.
Fabulous (and cautionary) tale! Hate to see this read end. Thanks, Barb.
And, like good deeds, it seems Good Intentions do not go Unpunished!
There's nothing more I can add that others haven't already said except that I hope you are already planning your next trip to Italy and that you WILL call NHF when you are there.
Oh, and I think Goldie Hawn might make a good D.
Thanks Barb and all the others who chimed in with their stories as well. This has been a wonderful thread. To those who felt Barb was mean spirited about her "friends", reread her final entry. I'd say she provides a very sympathetic assessment of the various characters. This has been fun. Thanks so much.
I'm but an echo, Barb. Your exposé, as I like to think of it, was priceless.
Heed the advice to package this baby up and sell it--some limoncello must come from this lemon of a trip!
Best regards,
Robyn
Barb, I'm so glad you were able to salvage a little fun out of the trip with NHF, and how lovely that he called just before you boarded the plane so you had something nice to think about all the way home! I agree with others, this has been like a book you're reading that you don't want to end.
Hope we'll be in Italy at the same time again and can have that dinner!
Ah, the NHF called as she was about to board the plane. I see the movie ending with Barb deciding whether to board the plane or return to Sorrento. Then we could have a sequel.
Thanks Barb for posting your trip report.
Bravissimo... standing ovation.
I am so appreciative of all your kind comments about my little saga. I really questioned continuing with it at one point - I guess I was too sensitive to some of the critics - but it was good for me to get it down on paper. Actually, it made me realize that there really were some pretty funny moments and although they didn't erase the bad moments, they made it possible for me to get through it and not go completely mental.
I would love to respond to each and every one of you, but I don't know where to start. Your kind words mean so much, especially coming from some of you seasoned Fodorites who I look to for advice each and every trip I make. Without Fodors, I would not be doing what I do that's for sure. And, Artlover, your kind gesture has me speechless. And yes, I am planning my next trip, I was planning it on the plane coming home! And it will be solo, maybe spending some time with Seaurchin for a few days, but I will have my own place and my own itinerary. I'm debating about Rome/Sicily, or Rome/Ischia or Rome/Greece, or Rome/Croatia. Do you see a theme here? Can you tell I love Rome?
There might be a little sequel, J called me and the Divas want to get together for a post-trip dinner - oh joy.
Re: photos - I would never do that for privacy reasons, although I would just love you to see Eiffel in one of her get ups.
Any future trips/reports will probably be dull in comparison but maybe rich in other ways - and now that I've "got the groove back" you just never know....
Barb
The journey has been so entertaining for me - your writing style is wonderful. I just wanted to express my thanks. For me this is the most memorable Fodor post - may it resurface regularly.
I truly enjoyed reading your trip report. Wonderful!
Barb, I have *so* enjoyed reading your trip report. Thank you for posting it. You have a lovely writing style and sense of humour. I do hope that you look into publishing your tale in print or writing a screenplay. Back to the Asia forum for me. I leave for Tokyo and Bangkok on Sunday.
Barb, reading your too funny account makes me seriously question a friend's and my current plan to take a group of 6 of our gal pals on a a weeklong shopping and sightseeing excursion in Paris next December! Maybe we should invite "J" as she already has the outfits!!!
From Barb: "I really questioned continuing with it at one point - I guess I was too sensitive to some of the critics - but it was good for me to get it down on paper."
All talented people need to learn what to do with criticism, even if you never considered yourself an artist until you wrote this report. Acquiring a thick skin is necessary to survive in show business because the financial stakes are often so high and the egos fragile and enormous.
Professional actors, painters, photographers, and writers deal with the ugly side of criticism everyday, as do many others. Eventually, some learn to ignore it. Staying focused is the key to self-discovery.
There was a time, back in my very young days, when certain criticism devastated me; you know, the evil kind - the type of criticism that came from a dark, nasty place, typically from a very unhappy, or disturbed person with lots of issues and baggage. I learned through therapy (around the age of 28) to deal with these hateful types, who were determined to see me fail and self-destruct.
What doesn't kill you will make you stronger. And with strength, focus and perseverance, you can conquer anybody and be free to reach every creative goal.
Of course, constructive criticism can be extremely helpful. You just have to know whom to trust and where to go to get it.
Initially, I wasn't going to post to this thread until you finished your report. When I felt the anguish in your words, allowing the critics to penetrate, I decided to speak up and give you support. No artist, especially an aspiring one, should EVER cave-in to their critics. God gave you a gift and your responsibility is to see that it lives and is shared.
Thank you for finishing and congratulations!
A toast to you Barb: here's to many years of fondly looking back on this trip with your friends, the divas, as you all see it with the ever-increasing humor of time; and to remembering this as the trip where you got your groove back.
I posted this on the Charles and Camilla board by accident for I was in a romantic frenzy this morning.
It should be here.
They can adopt Loveitaly.
I think it is neat that Barb has a new boyfriend - he must be so handsome and romantic. My boyfriend is back in the picture so I know how sweet it can be. When are you seeing him again? Love is in the air I can breathe it - sniff sniff.
Barb, Well this coupon is only good for US and Canadian travel up through Jan. 31 (and must be booked by Nov. 30), so if you can use it, e-mail me at creativeinseattle@hotmail.com and I'll pass on the code to you. If not, I'll pass it on to some other Fodorite.
It's good for two travelling together, so seaurchin could use it with you.
Thanks again for your hilarious and delightful tale.
I agree with Kavey's recent post- my thoughts exactly.

I also vote for Oliver Martinez for the NHF. If he is cast, I vote for ME to play Barb in the movie. My asking price is a lot less than these other actresses. Heck, I'd play Oliver Martinez's love interest for free!
This report has its amusing moments, however, I get a distinct impression that while Barb may be a savvy traveler she is not a particularly nice person nor a good friend and may not be such a lovely travel companion as many seem to think. She says her friend "thinks she has a headache" and keeps offering Ambien to shut her friends up. Funny but nasty.
I can't believe how good Barb and her supporters are at shutting up people who have a different take on the story. I was very surprised that some posters would try to denigrate the opinions of others by pointing that English is not their first language as the reason they are "not getting the humour".
Barb,
I decided that I must go to Italy some time. Great story. Can't wait till it comes to the big screen
thank you, Barb, for a very entertaining afternoon read. I enjoyed every bit of it.
Barb, thanks. I was lucky enough to 'stumble' across your story from the start and have enjoyed very much. And the interesting thing is from when it started to now, we have decided to make Rome our final city to see on our 'Race Around the World' starting in Dec.
So now I will have to re-read this post for actual Travel info on Rome.
Should we spend a week in Rome or Hire a car and go 'exploring'?
MMM so many decisions. Thanks for making me 'see' the wonder of Rome.
560 responses,WOW!, but will the movie ever be as good as the book?
The movie will be better as we get to see Mrs. Robinson seduce NHF with her legs.
First, Barb, that was a heck of a tale, and well narrated.

Now, NYC, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. My remarks about "when words hurt" was directed to your comment "I never hurt, except with words". I should have made this clear. Maybe in general, NYC, words are the lesser thing as compared to physical things, but on the Internet, words are the only thing. And I didn't want this thread to end, and I was very worried, after that "I'd like to punch you in the nose" remark you made to Delldee, that things would escalate and it would be ended. And yes, as I said, I think that would hurt or at least disappoint many people - and it would all be the result of words. In short, I was disagreeing with you that to hurt with words was necessarily innocuous. Words have consequences, I was trying to warn everyone, and one of those consequences is when threads are pulled.
Maybe the word 'judging' has now come to mean 'being mean' or 'being nasty' so that I can no longer observe that someone is judging without it being taken as a personal attack on that person. If so, it looks like that's yet another word I have to expunge from my vocabulary, sigh. But to me, we all judge people, all the time. It's part of being human, and very necessary. We have brains, we have values, we are constantly striving to see how others fit in that frame. This story is compelling because it's a very human story. It is very much a warts-and-all look at humanity. But we, too, are that humanity, and invariably people are going to judge us, as well. It's not fair to demand that others refrain from doing what we do ourselves.
So, too, is Fodor's a human story, full of many different personalities and emotions that often run high. To you, Delldee was looking for a fight. To me, she was looking for reassurance. Had my story been the target of her Ambien criticism, I'd simply reply "point taken" - in other words, I can agree with her criticism in principle, or in other words, without taking the criticism personally. I could say, with no loss of face, yes, it's a good idea to be careful with prescription drugs, and leave it at that. On the other hand, I am a passionate believer in the right not to conform, and I don't much care to see people being intimidated into conforming, as in "put up or shut up" as I believe someone said at one point in the heat of the action. There has also been a great deal of righteous indignation at critics, although in fact few people did criticize. The fact that they did, though, to me is only proof of how good a story this was. Like all great tales, it inspired a whole range of reactions in me and doubtless other people as well. When I hear people demand that critics shut up, I feel that they are in a sense diminishing the power of the story to which they're responding, not to mention diminishing the value of the board. Anyway, kudos to Barb for writing a powerful story, and by the way Barb, I appreciate your patience in allowing me a full range of reactions.
By the way, as to your remark, NYC, that I'm in an Ambien haze, I resemble that remark. I manage to get in a haze without the need for any drug assistance of any kind.
I'm enjoyed this tale of woe as much as much as anyone. And I hope most it was fiction. I kept waiting for an epiphany.
But truthfully if one of my friends were telling me this story I would have to ask them, "what was your part in making this a miserable adventure?" I mean really if it were just a day or two or one person, that would be one thing but if your having trouble with FIVE other people then it seems that the problem might not lie with the other five.
It did seem like from the onset Barb was much more interested in impressing strangers that she would never see again then the people she had invited with her. I think that's just bad manners. I saw a huge red flag when the only people Barb seemed to get along with were those with whom she had only fleeting relationships; the waiter, the friend of a friend who she gets a picture taken with see-how-well-I-blend-in mode and a brief dinner with someone she knows on-line. None of these folks have had to put up with Barb for any amount of time.
When I asked about the ambien, I should have clarified earlier that didn't mean if the root of the problem was giving it to D, but if Barb might be taking too much ambien. Therefore altering her behavior.
Barb:
Although I'm sorry you didn't truly enjoy your trip from hell, I thoroughly enjoyed reading about it. Welcome home and thank you for such an enjoyable thread. While you were happy that your trip ended you leave me in sorrow that the thread's end has arrived. I hope they make that movie, it would be deliciously funny. All the places you visited gave brought back so many flashbacks to the best vacation I had in beautiful Italy and Sicily.
You are a good friend not to completely abandon them from the getgo. May the rest of your travels be happy ones and I hope you fill un in again on your next escapade.
Caio
I have enjoyed Barb's narration immensely. But I must say that I'm sorry to see the use of profanity that has made its way into this thread, especially from someone who has, in the past, claimed to eschew the use of foul language on a public forum. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come here at Fodor's...
AND what I'd like to know...did any of the Divas say "thank you, Barb" for all the planning and arrangements and great tips you gave us...let us take you out for a dinner (or at least a drink) to show our appreciation?" Huh??
Again, this is great stuff. So much fun. Thanks again, Barb.
L84sky,
I have been reading Barb's story and relating to lots of it (not a diva though).
1
I can completely understand why Barb did not abandon these people. They were travel-naive and it would have been cruel.
I had traveled with someone who had many aspects of all the divas rolled in one. She was very difficult, demanding, self-centerd (yes, she made comments of "why can't they do it like in the US?") and KIA. Once at dinner, after arguing that the consumers benefit from LESS competition and pouting when I didn;t agree, she stormed away. It would have been so easy to let her try to find her way around. But she was so inept at traveling and so bad at figuring her way around, it would have been really cruel. We were out of our base town and I know she wouldn't have made it back to the hotel if I hadn't led her back to the train station. She pretended to know the way even though she followed me very closely the whole time. I waited to see which train she would get on. And sure enough, she tried to get on the WRONG train before I stopped her.
I still enjoyed myself over the next few days. I just let her think she was coming up with the ideas and plans. And didn't stick together when we got to places (museum, we did not stick together, etc). I have to admit that I enjoy watching her occasionally stumble her way though.
So Barb was just looking out for her traveling companions. And when you are constantly with people who are difficult, other people you meet along the way are just sanity savers. Meeting real people in the country you are traveling in is part of the experience. Barb just sounds like a friendly, outgoing person.
Well, having gone on a trip with another couple once or twice that were not, shall I say, good travelling companions, I personally can relate to Barb's story. It is terrible to be with others when you are "stuck" with them..when they make one problem after another..when you invest your time and money for a trip to have it ruined.
Personally I did not have Barb' wonderful sense of humor about it afterwards. I wish I had though, it would have helped the letdown when we got home.
Living in a small place close to the heart of Sorrento, and Sorrento is a small place, I see many ladies like Barb and that group passing every year. Men go around with them easily and then go with the next one. It's my home. So don't say I need assurance.
To me, I never search for a fight and to hear that someone wants to punch me in the face because I say the truth, its something ugly. And when Barb said she liked it, now I will remember this.
I don't care of Barb has a drug or gives it to someone, or if she wants to find adventure with a young man here. It happens to many ladies like her. They are known for this. We have alot of stories like this. Her story is only one story of alot of stories, but she wrote her business on the internet for attention, which a woman here would not do.
And I read that Barb said "sometimes the truth hurts" I'm sorry if the truth makes you angry, so your FoodSnob friend can punch a hundred more times, and try to offend with bad words, but the truth still sits in the same place, not moving.
Even If you don't agree with it, then it still is the same thing.
It's a story that many like to read, and I said before it will be a good American movie. very funny in America.
I just wanted to say that I discovered this thread today and could not stop reading until I was finished. Fantabulous! Bravo, Barb. Kudos to you and your patience. I loved this story, and I fully agree that it should be a novel or a movie. One actress that could be a Diva - Susan Sarandon? She could be quite funny as KIA or D. You must let us know what happens with the dinner!
PS The man in Under The Tuscan Sun is Raoul Bova.
Barb, I really enjoyed your trip report. I as everyone else was hooked after your first sentence.
My DH turns into as we so lovingly call him "Mr. Crabby Pants" when he travels. So after about 23 years of marriage I decided enough. I started traveling with DD and my sister. After about 6 years and alot of great trips Mr. Crabby Pants has decided he wants to travel again and will change his evil traveling ways. My DD and I actually let him go on our annual NYC back to school shopping trip this summer with us. MCP was really fun! Miracles do happen. I am just keeping my fingers crossed that MCP does not reappear. Maybe thats wishful thinking on my part.
I am really sorry that Barb's narrative is finished - it's been such fun to read. Please DO agree to go the "post-trip get-together". I'll be looking for the sequel!
This story just confirmed to me exactly what I have noticed on my travels (usually SOLO!) that groups of American women (and yes, I'm American too) can seem especially obnoxious. I've even been embarrassed looking at them from a distance. I would never in a million years travel that way. I'm very intolerant of clingy, dependent women, and sometimes am ashamed of feeling that way. Barb, I actually don't know how you STOOD putting up them for 2 weeks, (and with all their complaints, too).
I would LOVE to see pictures of the Divas - but agree you better not do that!
An amazing trip, if all true, but well done.
dildee-The "truth" doesn't hurt that much when it comes from a total stranger who has posted twice on Fodors..

Barb, where are we going next? We as in you and we get to read all about it
Bravo!
As we say in France "Chapeau!" I don't remember reading so much English writing in a row like here! that was great!
A special thanks to georgiegirl for telling me about that posting...
Just a question, would you allow me to print your story (just the story) and put a copy for my guests in the flat I rent out? I'm sure they would love it!
PLEASE!!!
The baby boy is lucky to have such a grand ma!
bonne chance
corinne
Bravissima!!! Wow, I have been going through this for a few days now and have to say it was a wonderful read. I agree: Diane Lane!!!


I will look for your book and movie in the near future
Bring on the photos!
Monica
PS: Do you have all this written in a word document or did you type directly onto this fodors page? Maybe you could email it out (mjpileggi@adelphia.net)
. That way, when you are famous with your book and movie, us fodorites can say, "Hey, we have the original manuscript!!"

Monica
NYCF/TS: And the sentence, "because I say the truth" beckons the question, "Who's truth?"

Delicious irony in the presumably unintended typo in my opinion.
If Barb is bothered by delldee22, I'm sure that she will address delldee's concerns.
A response of well over fifteen paragraphs is hardly "soigné," in my opinion.
Maybe an Ambien is in order?
Actually, my response to NYCTS's latest post is Brava!
And reading delldee's posts, my reaction was "Who's the real snob around here?"
Someone should save this thread before we all say something that will get it deleted.
I'm amazed and in awe to see this thread is still traveling on!
I think Barb finished her tale sometime yesterday?
I think NYCF/TS is way overestimating her own relevance in this story, after all, she did used some pretty heavy-handed language,
trying to sound clever, which probably entertained the rest of us somewhat, but may have offended the recipient, which is understandable, and to be expected.
All she got was a normal reaction, albeit without nearly the rancor she herself exhibited. I don't think it needed all of 15 paragraphs to repond, and dare I say it-maybe she DOES need some of Barb's Ambien!
NYCF/TS: You know, It's a gorgeous day out here on the streets of NY-lots of sunshine. If I wasn't stuck at the office, I'd be out walking in the park- maybe a a little time in the sun will sweeten you up... or do I need to duck before you start throwing things at me too?
I also noticed that Barb thought she (NYCF/TS) would make a good travel partner. Now there would be a sequel!
11op:
" And the sentence, "because I say the truth" beckons the question, "Who's truth?"beckons the question, "Who's truth?"
That's very well said! I live and work in a place with a crowds of tourists, but i know the ratio is much higher in Sorrento, and they probably have their own view of us and the way we act when we're on a vacation there. That seems only fair.
I have some friends who live there, and I think if I were a local woman there, I might not have the most friendly view of the women trying to find a romantic fling on vacation, and I have to admit, I think they do have a strong point, whether we like it or not. Jealousy? Probably, but I think they have a perfect right to this opinion without us putting them down and attacking them for it. I happen to love that area, and visit often, so that probably makes me a little more in sympathy with them than NYCF/TS
seems to be.
Funny, but I remember the scene in "Under the Tuscan Sun" when Diane Lane tries to go to Positano to find her "boyfriend" again, and finds him living with a local girl.....I think Frances Mayes ended up with an American guy, didn't she? Maybe there is some truth in "to each his/her own", after all.
As for truth, this was an absorbing read on alot of levels, including the banter-even if I didn't 100% believe all the things Barb claims, but hey-a little embellishment and a few misspellings never hurt when you're spinning a tale, right?
Mayes was married before she went to Italy. The movie was just Hollywood clap trap.
re: the NHF and "women of a certian age"
I'm guessing that since this forum seems to be mostly women (I'm one of the male fans), many of you are familiar with the (great) film "Summertime", in which Kate Hepburn is a 48-yr old American tourist who is courted by the 39-yr old Rosanno Brazzi. On arriving in Venice, Kate tells the beautiful owner of the Pensione Fioricci about "this girl" on the boat coming over (actually talking about herself). She says "In America, any woman under 50 is still a girl". "And after?" signora Fioricci asks. "After, who cares?" says Kate.
Later, the signora says "In Italy, age is an asset!" Kate wryly says, "Then I must be loaded!"
That's one of the attractions of Italy, as far as I'm concerned. Italians of all ages are absolutely mad for babies and little children. Even teenagers will stop to fuss over a cute kid. Likewise, there seems to be a genuine interest in people of all ages - not that there is no "hanging out" with friends of one's own age, but there is generally less defensiveness about age than we are used to.
BTW, I think all the good actresses will be fighting to be D - she would be the tough role. And I'd make Keaton Eiffel Tower, so she could stretch those muscles a bit (or Streep). Add Mary Kay Place in any role ...
As much as I would love to say the irony was intentional, all I can do is admit I'm far from perfect. Considering how fast I think, write, and type, I'm surprised more unintended irony doesn't appear in my posts. Thank you for making my intention clearer.

"A response of well over fifteen paragraphs is hardly "soigné," in my opinion.
Soigné does not mean diffuse, even though I'm flattered that some dunderhead took the time to count my paragraphs in a failed attempt at soigné criticism. That's OK. "Judging" his movie title offerings, he's not much of a comedian either. Don't quit your day job, dear.
You see, delldee, here on Fodor's you're often damned if you do and damned if you don't. After all, I could have combined all my paragraphs into one, which would have brought other critics into the mix. When you choose to contribute here on Travel Talk, you must be prepared to swim with all types of man-eating fish and not just those few from your little town of Sorrento.
satnitcboy-
yes! I agree! i kind of find D interesting too, and suspect that there is maybe much more than meets the eye going on there.
And a great film reference with "Summertime"!
Good comments!
bellastar, for what it's worth, I found your post fair, funny, charming and very well written. Sunny or not, today is a work day and that means the blinds are down to control the monitor's ELF/VLF E-field radiation.
Thank you all who read my posts, especially the ones with 15 paragraphs.
Another flick I'm reminded of is "Shirley Valentine", with the great Pauline Collins as a Brit housewife who takes a dream vacation to Greece to excape her dreary husband. Shirley's girlfriend turns out to be a poor match for her while on the trip, but they do end up have fun, each in her own way. If you all have never seen it, do - it's fun, if a bit fairy-tale for some.
While I'm at it, since we've all appreciated Barb's writing, I should say that "Shirley Valentine" is by Willy Russell, from his own play. "Summertime" screenplay is by David Lean (who directs this gorgeous film) and H. E. Bates, from the play "Time of the Cuckoo" by Arthur Laurents. Let's keep giving writer's credit!
NYFS - BRAVA!!
Barb - thank you for a really great story and for not quitting on the Diva's or on posting your story, in spite of Delldee, and her ilk. And NYC Travel Snob, why do you have to go on and on and on, this wasn't your story!
Hey Barb, was the flight back to Vancouver with all the "Divas" uneventful? You could have at least made something up.

satnitcboy-
well, you have won my heart with your insights and your clear respect for film and the writer's craft!
From a fellow lover of film
NYCF/TS:
I work many hours per day on large screen computers, and one must take sunlight breaks every hour to keep ones brain from frying to a crisp.
Budman: By the time I got to that point in the report, I was really starting to run out of steam and I thought it was just time to end it on a rather happy note. I will say, I was very happy that I had a seat across the aisle from the Divas though.
"And NYC Travel Snob, why do you have to go on and on and on, this wasn't your story!"
Of course, this was my story! And I'll bet it belongs to others as well. Barb was kind, generous, and patient enough to be the one to write it. And that's why it's received such overwhelming response.
But, don't fret, Sharon. I'm done here.
Just thought I'd mention, for those who care, there is an article in this month's AARP magazine about older women/younger men. Hey, AARP is giving it the thumbs up! So, delldee and the women of Sorrento - you'd better lock up your men, because this 50+ woman has AARP's approval and there's no stopping me now!!
The point I think most of the dissenters miss is that Barb was not a hired guide. She was looking forward to a trip with what she thought were other adults capable of taking care of themselves. She wound up being a baby- sitter. Until she went off by herself, her dream trip was a nightmare. If she found some time to enjoy herself I say WAY TO GO BARB!!
Barb, I hate to say this as I have many women friends in Italy but in my experience women in Italy get jealous quite easily. Even my Italian SIL has said this. You go girl!!
According to Elsimar Coutinho, a Brazilian doctor that has been doing an extensive research about human sexuality, yourger males are more sexually compatible with older females, whereas younger females are sexually more compatible with older males than with with those of their age.
The reason is that while older women get sexually aroused easily and quickly, younger males have the urge to get to the climax, hence both get satisfied with the sexual act. OTO, young females need a longer period of time to get aroused, as do older men. Given to their hormon levels, human beings instinctively recognise and are driven towards their compatible pair.
This is not a romantic explanation, I know, but it does make a lot of sense to me. Forgive me, Barb, for coming with such a raw, scientific argument, but the fact is that I do believe it's true. Of course, personal assets play a huge role here. It's not that ANY older female would atract a younger ( and HANDSOME!) male like NHF, it had to be Barb to cacth his eye.
WOW!
and now that I've "got the groove back" .....OMG... you GO GIRL!!!
I had been reading your story for a couple of days, but work got the best of me until COCOINDIJON reminded me of it. Well, I was back in a flash. So much had happened and SO many responses...it was amazing. What a great read, Barb. Thank you for telling all. The movie suggestion is spot on.
Thanks again, Barb. And Happy Solo Travels.
Hi Isadore (don't know if I can say your real name!)


I'm still waiting for an answer from Barb (if she allows me to put a copy of her story in the apartment..)
Tell her you would have loved reading it there!
I'm sure you would get along well, you two!
welcome back on fodors!
Hello Barb,
I got such a kick out of your trip report. God Bless you girl for all your patience with the Divas. Sorry your trip wasn't what you wanted or expected but you will never forget your trip to Italy with the Divas!!!!
Happy you did get to do some "fun" things without
them.
Thanks for sharing and you do write well.
Happy Travels!!!
Stella
Another possible movie title: "How Barb got her groove back"
Ceci -
thank you so very much for that intriguing and enlightening information - and here I thought I was just a lech!
I disagree with ceci, it is a strange attraction that can never be explained when there is a wide age difference.
Love takes many forms.
Book titles are often changed from the author's choice.
Great story Barb. Have to give you a lot of credit for not cutting and running for the nearest hotel and leaving them to their own devices.
You only get so many chances to do the things you love in life, even if it might be more often than others have. If you gave up one of those precious times to guide (herd? prod?) others, at the very least you deserve a good story to tell. I think they owe you that much.
Yep, slap a cover on it and get it in the shops.
Well! Now I'm offended. I am a cheap, easy broad but I don't get picked up for romantic interludes like Barb describes.

Back to the original set of issues: People who are offended by Barb's story on the internet. Oh, please! She's kept all identities a secret and is venting to peers who will either benefit from her story or have already been through it and have savored every miserable moment through someone else's eyes here (that would be me). I went through my TCFH last year, and now I wonder if I would have felt more 'cleansed' if I had done it the way Barb did. Instead of taking the high road as Barb did and kept it all anonymous, I came home and talked about my TCFH experience to my entire family, all my friends, and all my coworkers. I felt like it would take a lot of venting before I could get it out of my system, and I am sure many people who heard my story could not relate because they had not had a TCFH.
By the way, Barb, my TCFH was also quite the American tourist in Paris! She would immediately start talking to salespeople in English without checking first. their shoe sizes are different, but ignoring the fact that we are probably a size 37 or 38, she immediately asked, "Do you have this in a size 7?" When the salesperson looked dumbfounded, she would say, louder, "SEV-EN. DO YOU HAVE THIS IN A SIZE SEV-EN?" I pretty much ran and hid from there. Is it any wonder that people were very rude to her the whole time we were in Paris?
There's more to the story, but as I said before, my trip was only 1/5 as bad as Barb's. I felt every painful moment that Barb described, though!
Melissa - until you have had an experience like yours and mine, I think it's hard for people to understand how really difficult and frustrating it is. As much as we would really like to just abandon people like your TCFH and my Divas, there is a certain commitment involved and possibly friendships that we would like to preserve if at all possible. So, it's just not that easy to simply walk away. But.. it certainly you makes you think twice before doing it again.
Melissa -
I am cracking up reading your account of the shoe shopping - I think our respective TCFHs are soul mates.
When I returned home from my trip, I griped about my TCFH quite a bit. Except for my sister that was on the trip with me, the rest of my family didn't really understand how frustrated I was from the experience.
I think anyone that has actually experienced traveling with a TCFH can very easily put themselves in Barb's shoes and sympathize.
The Divas don't sound so bad. They obviously didn't care about "fitting in" or trying to pretend they blend in with the locals - more power to them.
I think to use a term like "travel companion from hell" is an over-statement. They didn't freeload off you or short you any money due, or leave you stranded in a city where you could get lost or assaulted, they didn't buy/sell drugs or break major laws, or anything like that.
They had a different travel style and obviously didn't care about being the "ugly American." Maybe that's not what most people on Fodor's would do, but there's nothing intrinsically wrong with not trying to blend in.
The story was amusing though. But I don't think it's a story of good guys (Barb) versus bad guys (Divas). It's s story of what happens when people with different personalities, experience, or styles travel together.
Barb! I'm away from Fodors for many moons, and come back to your story! I totally sympathize, I'm sorry you didn't have a completely magical trip like last time, but there will be next time. But, I agree, it's basically different travel styles and too much togetherness. And those of us who consider travel to be a spiritual experience, rather than being "tourists", although common on Fodors, are really in the minority. I'd almost guess that your companions are raving about their time in Italy, and will invite you to travel with them next year. Perish the thought! But to put it all in perspective, be thankful you didn't have a true travel nightmare - accident, illness, crime, etc. Anything else is just research for future trips! Anyway, next time, on your terms, will be fantastic
Nutella - Yes, putting things in perspective, I do feel very fortunate that nothing really horrible happened, although murder did go through my mind a few times - just kidding!! I am pretty sure they all ended up having a good time and thought nothing of it. It really does all boil down to traveling styles. I know that now and to avoid that ever happening again, I will probably travel solo. I think those who have found someone truly compatible to travel with are very, very lucky indeed.
I'm wondering about the one who was sick - "Scared": Doubt if she will remember the trip as glorious if she was sick for much of it. How was she at the end of the trip? Have you heard from/about her since? Was she, in fact, just overcome and preferred to retreat to her hotel room(s) for the duration? Or do you have the sense she actually did get some sort of bug or have a physical problem that hung on?
I finally cut and pasted this story without all the comments and sidestories contributed by others to see how it sounded. A real girl story, that's for sure.
I just took Barb's story as she claimed it to be, and ended up with the impression that the "hell" part of the trip was self made to a large extent.
Barb sounded so completely irritated every time the group didn't want to just split the check. As an experienced traveler, after this happened once, couldn't one just simply smile and ask the waiter for your separate check at the next meal? This isn't hard, even with a limited command of Italian she claims to have. Then leave the others to do as they want.
Barb makes fun of her group at every turn for their tastes, behavior, and clothes, and depicts them as hopelessly dependent on her (superior) experienced knowledge, painting the picture of herself as the victim.
But on every occasion one of them shows some spunk of thier own, she's ready with a complaint.
She even dubs one of them "Know-It_All" and feels the woman is just trying to prove her wrong.
Barb, sometime you must have been a beginner in Italy, and had to figure things out on your own. Why can't other people do the same? Does this make them a control freak any more than you are? And even you still make mistakes, such as when you got on the wrong car of the train to Florence, and forgot to make reservations at the Accademia.
I think this is the woman who would check with the tourist office about trains (good practice for a new traveler.)
I also noticed that two of these "helpless" women found their own apartment in a good location in Rome at the last minute, and two of them also went out and found you a room (through the Sorrento tourist office) when you wanted to get away from "D". They also found thir own hotel room in Sorrento. That does not strike me as helpless.
While "D" does sound pretty irritating, it she was really raked over the coals in this story, which seems to really drive the story at some points.
She kind of sounds more like a person who panics in close company and maybe doesn't hold liquor well. She doesn't sound like a "Psycho" to me.
I noticed that two of the other Divas wanted to separate at the Lorelei when one wanted her own room, and they settled it between themselves first and then told the group. That shows some maturity.
With "D", she tried to talk to you about it privately, and you sugar coated your response (as you tell it), then sprung it on her in front of everyone that you're moving out of the room. Of course she freaked out, not very surprising.
Why not try to deal with your problem between the two of you first, as the other two did?
I think maybe those Divas should chip in and buy you a little mirror for Christmas!!!
The big thing I noticed though, was that the thread was more fun because of the responses then the tale of woe.
sognatrice:
Very interesting observations.
With the egging on from the responders the tale gets more and more bizarre. (Although I must confess to having skimmed it - the responses were in fact more bizarrely compelling than the "story.")
This thread might make fascinating and giggly reading for middle-school age girls, or those of similar maturity levels, but, really, the only thing pertinent about it from a travel perspective is perhaps the lesson that, just like at home: when you travel, you sleep in the bed you make. Then you grow up and get over it.
Barb,
I happened upon your trip report last night about midnight and I was up till 3:00am reading the whole thing through.(Thank goodness I didn't have to wait for the next installment to come!)
I found myself laughing out loud, shaking my head in disbelief, and relating the story too closely to some of my own friends. (talking too loudly,can't quite figure out how to get from point A to point B without help, to pulling a calculator out for exactness).
I have a group (including several "type A" friends) that will be embark on an Italian trip later this month.
Your trip report has sent chills down my spine of what could happen within my group of "my friends" that have different travel desires.
Fingers crossed.
Hopefully, this is planned that everyone (mostly divided into 2's or 4's) are on their own and we will all regroup in the evening and share the tales of the day over several bottles of wine and cheese. (A couple of group dinners are planned as well).
When I started putting this trip together, I read an online report that said "... if you are putting together a group trip, STOP right now and don't do it...!"
In the past, I have organized several group travels and for the most part all have gone exceptionally well.
There will always be some personality conflicts, but I am hopeful it will end up being a great trip.
Thanks for your insight and humor of your "..why I will always travel solo.."
I am so hoping I will not be screaming this at the top of my lungs and claiming this as my next motto !!
Barb, this has been some of the most amusing travel stories (in the I can't take my eyes off the train wreck fashion) that I have read in some time.
I wonder if you would be interested in coming on my travel podcast - The Amateur Traveler Podcast? If you are not familiar with podcasting it is like internet radio so it is an audio show.
Details how to contact me are on the Amateur Traveler Podcast website - http://amateurtraveler.com
Chris
Great Report! sorry it worked out that way. couple of things: it was irritating when people put in their own horror stories,,,do your own thread please!!!!! I have no issue with the Ambien, when my friends and I travel, much worse prescriptions get past around happily, I'm sure everyone has their side of the story and they are welcomed as Barb to start their own thread, this is BARB's report, she is reporting from her perspective and should not be faulted for it. I too think it would be a good movie (even outside of america)! I think people who have actually had the trip partner(s) from hell understand where Barb is coming from, the people who don't understand are the ones who are the people from hell we traveled with!
Anniebbb:
This is a forum, which would seem to invite people to give their opinions, both sides of the coin. I think what you're describing is better known as a "Soapbox".
I live in a place where people are allowed and even encouraged to have opinions, and to engage in healthy debate. Of course, I realize it may not be that way where you live.
So when someone posts, others give opinions, all kinds. Not a big deal. I'm sure Barb can take it. After all, no one has really said anything any worse than the report says about the women who shared her trip. Sure, it's her report, and she chose to place it online here.
As chance would have it, I have actually survived a few travel experiences with others that would make Barb's story read like a trip to candyland, but I wouldn't post them here. One reason is because of the copyright issue.
I just went over to the rules section of Fodor's because with all this talk of publishing and movies, i was curious about what they say about copyrights.
With apologies to the editors, I am reproducing it here. I think it suggests that Fodors, or maybe Random House, owns the copyright to everything, and it's a permissions issue. Here's what they have to say: (This is verbatim from the rules section)
1. Definitions.
This Web site (www.fodors.com) is the interactive online service operated by Fodors LLC ("Online Service Provider"), a wholly-owned subsidiary of Random House, Inc. on the World Wide Web of the Internet, and consists of information, services, and content provided by the Online Service Provider. "Subscriber" means each person who accesses the Online Service Provider's Web site. By accessing the Web site, Subscriber is deemed to have agreed to comply with all of the terms and conditions hereof.
...
(B) The Web site contains copyrighted material, trademarks and other proprietary information including, but not limited to, text, software, photos, video, graphics, music and sound, and the entire contents of the Web site are copyrighted as a collective work under the United States copyright laws. The Online Service Provider owns and/or controls copyright in the selection, coordination, arrangement and enhancement of such content, as well as in the content original to it. Subscriber may not modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content, in whole or in part. Subscriber may download copyrighted material for Subscriber's personal use only. Except as otherwise expressly permitted under copyright law, no copying, redistribution, publication or commercial exploitation of downloaded material will be permitted without the express permission of the Online Service Provider and the copyright owner. In the event of any permitted copying, redistribution or publication of copyrighted material, no changes in or deletion of author attribution, trademark, legend or copyright notice shall be made.
Oh, Oh, there goes my casting of Diane Lane and Olivier Martinez!
Cigalechanta-
OM and DL: Great fantasy though. I would say more, but I'm already six feet under- 500 other posters have killed the messenger!!!
sognatrice, I haven't read the entire copyright policy, but I'd be a bit surprised if what you quoted referred to anything other than Fodor's own material. Remember, this website is a lot more extensive than just the talk forums. If I post a trip report here, I don't see that I've given up my copyright to that material.
I think that Marilyn maybe right because I posted my trip reports through the years on three travel sites that I like. And no one has said anything knowing I did?
Not to belabor the point too much, but point #1 quoted above defines the "web site" as consisting of "information, services, and content provided by the Online Service Provider" (emphasis mine). We are "subscribers," not the "Online Service Provider," so the material we provide would not technically be considered a part of the "web site."
I hope marilyn's right. It's the same to me, one way or another. Probably not a big deal, unless you are talking about selling a book or movie rights to content that already exists online.
I work for a publishing copy as large as Random House, and Internet copyright law is a very big issue in our offices!
I think the internet is a huge issue for any company, large or small, that deals with any sort of intellectual property. Even for a large company, it's almost impossible to enforce because it's so difficult to even know who is using your material without permission or license.
Barb - Loved it!
It reminds me of my own diva trip 18 years ago, a trip w/ 5 California women to New York city. My dear friend P and I were there to eat great food and see great art. The other 3 were there to shop and go to plays. However, the 3 got lost IN the hotel twice and were hopeless on the streets and in the subway. So for 2 weeks they followed us around mumbling complaints about our food/art itinerary! The last day they ventured forth to see the World Trade Center. P and I took them to their subway stop, told them to go up the stairs, turn left, and voila - they couldn't miss it.
Well, miss it they did... But P and I had a great time on our own that day. And the funny thing is I no longer remember the names of the 3 shoppers, although I had plenty to download about at the time. All I remember now is how funny it was that they couldn't find the WTC.
>All I remember now is how funny it was that they couldn't find the WTC. <

It's a good thing that they weren't looking for a small place like Rockefeller Center.
Barb
this may turn out to be the most enduring travel report ever. Congratulatinos, and let us know when the movie is cast.
I can think of one way you could have had worse travel companions--just think if some of the posters here had gone with you!
"I can think of one way you could have had worse travel companions--just think if some of the posters here had gone with you!"

Here, here, Elaine!
ps Gee...I sure hope you didn't mean me.
Yeah, just because I think this "story" from Barb is mean, I'd make a terrible traveling companion. Nice comment, Elaine.
I don't think Barb's posting is mean at all. I think she's doing a justice to people who may be thinking of traveling with a lot of people. They should think twice about it. Bravo Barb!!!!
As for the criticizim about the flirtation with the younger Italian man......Get real people. Do you really think she was thinking of marrying him and living happily ever after? It's fun to flirt and it's great for the ego. We "well over 25" group can have a little fun, can't we?
OK about this movie thing... Diane Keaton and Bette Midler, I'm sorry to say this are too old! They are wonderful actresses but by the time Barb gets this to the screen (hehehe) they will be in their 60's..Bette is 60.
How about actresses born in late 50's or early 60's - like Frances McDormand (1957) oe even Demi Moore (1962). We already know how SHE feels about younger men!
Sognatrice! I wondered what had happened to you. I missed you when you "disappeared," since we seemed to be interested in some of the same things (Italy-related, or language questions, I think)and you often had a thoughtful approach to topics. It's too confusing to follow the history of this controversy that I was never aware of, but I'm just saying "hello."
For those that complained about this trip report from Barb...
who twisted your arm to keep reading it ?
good grief !!
Ok, I admit it. I have a problem. I HATE it when people don't understand what I am trying to say and I hate it even more when I see that happening to others. I KNOW, it is none of my business, but I am compelled to step in.
I read this:
Author: sognatrice1
Date: 11/05/2005, 06:48 pm
Anniebbb:
This is a forum, which would seem to invite people to give their opinions, both sides of the coin. I think what you're describing is better known as a "Soapbox".
I live in a place where people are allowed and even encouraged to have opinions, and to engage in healthy debate. Of course, I realize it may not be that way where you live.
So when someone posts, others give opinions, all kinds. Not a big deal. I'm sure Barb can take it.
Anniebbb, was NOT talking about the people who were saying she was mean etc. She was talking about the people who said something like, "That reminds me of the time I went with a group of friends..."
She meant that their stories were taking away from Barb.
I am not saying if I agree or not, I just wanted you to understand what she was saying.
:">
I am Spartacus.

sognatrice1; First of all, I need to clear up a few things you have so kindly pointed out - the Divas did not want to split the check - that would have been far too easy and what I had suggested from the start - they wanted to figure out each and every dish down to the penny of what they each should pay and if you think most Italian restaurants will do separate checks for six women - you obviously haven't asked many restaurants to do this for you. Secondly, I never said they were helpless, did I? And thirdly,yes, I was once a newbie traveller, but I can tell you that I was well prepared before I left home, armed with information, curiosity and did it with the help of lots of hours of research on here and in books and without the help of someone offering to go with me, making arrangements for me ,etc.
But what I’d really like to know is, if this thread is so obviously distasteful to you, why in the world would you go to all the trouble to delete out all the responses, print out my report in it's entirety to analyze it and then proceed to tear it apart and give me your opinionated and unasked for comments. That’s almost scary. I usually try to ignore people like you, but I have to wonder why you feel so compelled to try to tell me why I did the things I did, how I felt, or how the Divas should have felt. You don’t know me, so don’t presume to think you do. I guess I have to ask myself why are you so angry and why would you even care. If I start reading a thread that is annoying or uninteresting to me, I stop and go on to something else. If I happen to disagree with something someone has said,(not a factual point), I just go on to something else. If I have something constructive to add or comment on, I will. If not, I go on to something else.
This report was meant to show the possible dangers of traveling with other people (and it sounds like this has happened to many others) and I tried to do it with a little humor thrown in.
The message this might be sending to a lot of people thinking about doing a report is, if it’s not all sweetness and light, just sticking to the facts of a trip, be careful because you could get blasted with a lot of really angry and hurtful comments by people with obvious chips on their shoulder who have some kind of an agenda that has nothing to do with travel and with what Fodors is all about.
Barb -
Thanks for the report. I found it very engaging.
The anti-Barb posts have, indeed, gotten truly weird -- and the whole trip into intellectual property laws and copyright was just... weird!
I didn't want to waste a huge amount of time doing it, but I did click on "sognatrice1"'s name and nothing came up! Not even this thread. I'm sure part of it is sluggishness on the part of the search function, but it suggests either that she is someone else's doppelganger or that she registered for the sole purpose of going after Barb. Again, weird.
Is Barb mean? Well, we wouldn't have enjoyed parts of this nearly so much if we didn't relate to the familiarity of being completely exasperated by someone and wanting to be a little "naughty" or "wicked" (in the gentle sense New Englanders use it, not the hellfire way that some might use it) in order to vent. It's funny BECAUSE it's not endlessly patient, AND it's funny because we know that the behavior of some of Barb's companions was downright painful and mean to HER -- and rather than haul off and let them have it, she waited and blew off a little steam with us.
All I can think is that those who think she was mean are those who related entirely to the most exasperating of her companions and don't like the image in the mirror.
Once again, Barb, THANKS, and don't let 'em peck you to death over any aspect of this. (I mean, copyright, for pity's sake!)
Well said, Barb. Please don't feel that you have to defend yourself.
I would be willing to bet that everyone here at one time or another has been exasperated with a traveling companion and probably just bit their tongue. I know I have because its just human nature. If others deny it, they're probably only fooling themselves.
We went to Italy once with another couple....never again. Only one of the 4 of us was like the devas Barb had to deal with. That was bad enough. I totally sympathize with her and applaud her courage to warn people about the pitfalls.
Yes, but did she have to make such sneering fun of them? Just seems a bit mean to me. That's just me. I wouldn't mock others on the internet for the amusement of a message board. This is just my opinion. I may be taking it too seriously!
While I think I understand Barb's point - that she tried to warn of the potential pitfalls with a bit of humor thrown in to soften the blow, it may have been a bit unrealistic and unfair to expect that everyone would share the same philosophy when it comes to travel. It's just as important to do some "research" about your potential traveling companions as it is to research train schedules and museum openings. Some people are better of going solo, and if this story has a point, maybe that's it.
Barb-I've not bothered to chime in until now, because many have said pretty much how I feel; I enjoyed the report and found it very amusing. Whether it was 100% true, or slightly embellished, it doesn't really matter.
However, I have to say that some of the reactions here may have tempered the writing of my own trip report ("Confessions of a Travel Nazi...") about going to Spain with my Mother. But I've been writing about my travels (on my own website) for a long time and I've learned you can't please everybody. That said, the negative comments can't help but sting a little. Don't feel obligated to reply to every one.
Again, I enjoyed the report.
Huh. Had to see what all the fuss was about -- suppose I'm mostly amazed at the sheer amount of typing on Barb's part. That's a lot of keyboarding there, Barb. A LOT! Days?
Guess I'm also astounded at the number of enthusiastic and swooning sycophants on this thread. The best thing you've ever read? Guys, I'm sorry but it's not really that well done.
There ARE a lot of very informative, witty, compelling trip reports on this site. Sadly, this is not one of them.
It's time to move on. Let's close the cover on this epistle without any more fussing and fighting and stone throwing. And don't any of you all quit your daytime jobs, hear?
IMHO.
B/
Gotta love the suggestion that I was doubleposting as delldee. I wish I was delldee - she lives in Sorrento!
Speaking of doubleposting, how come we haven't heard from Aunt Ida lately?
... amazing how a few people can wreck any party just by trying.
Well Barb, you have been critized and we that enjoyed your trip report have been critized. Shall we all start to critize the critics LOL. Take care and have a good week. And thanks again for your trip report. Most of us really enjoyed it. And for those that didn't, oh well, they got to read it for free so no money down the drain as often happens with terrible movies and books. And if they felt they wasted their time it is so easy to move onto another thread isn't it. Take good care.
Okay, now that Barb has 'finished' the report and I have saved it in a 'secure' place for future enjoyment, I do not have to live in fear of this thread getting deleted or 'frozen'.
Barb honey, do not defend yourself, you cannot 'win' and it is not important. I loved your report, you obviously enjoyed writing it and I really appreciate the effort that you put into it.
Happy Solo Travels,
Maristella