The City of London itinerary help

No.

The Tower of London is enormous and has multiple sight/sections to visit - it need at least 4 hours - and getting in can take a while.

You can look AT St Paul's in 5 minutes - but if you want a complete tour, including the whispering gallery you need 2 hours.

The Museum of London is fascinating and I can;t imagine getting through in less than 3 hours.

Plus you will need time for lunch and at least one other stop (drink? ice cream?) for your feet.

Don't know what the tower bridge experience is - but if it's just going up to the top, looking around and coming back down-= perhaps an hour. If there's more to it - more time.

Looks like a day and a half to me even if you quick march - longer if you dawdle and enjoy.
But then, I'm a history buff and when I visit someplace I really want to see it - not glance around, take a few photos and move on.

No.
You can easily "do" the Tower and the Bridge Experience (which some will find overpriced; we used 2for1 vouchers and it was definitely worth it--the views are great!) in one day, ending up on the South Bank for a bit.

Then do St. Paul's (and Millineum Bridge and such) and the Museum of London on another day. We did these things, with some other City sights, in a long walking day.

I think the link below will take you to my trip report; see Days 8 and 11 for what we did.

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/oh-to-be-in-england--and-we-were-trip-report-of-2-weeks-in-london-and-day-trips.cfm

The Tower and St. Paul's are in my top 5-6 things to see in London, but if you want to see those other things, too, you can't squeeze them all in one day.

We are history buffs also. It seems like there is a lot to do at the tower of london and not sure how much time most people spend there. Wasn't sure how large the museum of london is and how much time is needed to see the presentation of the history of london at the museum.

I read mixed reviews on the tower bridge experience but thought the views could be nice depending on the weather.

Do most people allocate a day and a half to cover the city section? I read about the Bank of England museum and guildhall clock museum too which seem interesting but too little time to get it all in and hard to prioritize.

I think it's too much ground to cover in 1 day. You'll miss a lot of great things if you don't leave time to "dawdle". It's a big part of any trip....IMO.

Texasbookworm,

Wow! Thanks for forwarding your trip report of last year. It sounds like you had a great time. Happy 31st anniversary it must be now.

We are trying to cover so much in so little time but it looks like it all can't be crammed into a day. I will need to separate those items somehow but than means something else gets left off the to do list.

How long exactly do you actually have? I know you were asking about Oxford and Bath (and Paris, I think) so how long DO you have in London? And then, yes, you need to make a priority list GROUPED BY AREAS OF THE CITY so you're not backtracking. Then put 2-3 must sees at the top of the list each day, withe some other ideas, and see how weather, stamina, and relationships are holding up and go from there! With planning and being willing to start early, much can be done, but trying to do too much, especially with kids in tow, isn't fun for anybody. (Hard to factor in unexpected crowds or transporation glitches, how long meals take, the serendipidous side street or conversation, etc.)

Yes I have been on the Paris threads and London threads. We are planning 4 days Paris and 9 days London with son and mother in law in tow. It will be our first trip to Europe and I am trying to plan but not overwhelm. I never did so much homework for any trip ever as I am now. Everyone is so helpful here.

The first London day is a travel day so not too much time left to see anything. Hoping to do Kings cross (platform 9 3/4) and british library that day maybe.

There is a lot to do in London proper so we decided based on the reviews of the other threads to do only one long day trip and that will be Oxford instead of Bath. Son wants to see sites from Harry Potter so Oxford wins out. We will skip Bath this time as it would require at least a full day and probably needs more to fully see it and appreciate the surroundings. Besides after traveling in from Paris, I think it would be too much traveling around even by train to do both Oxford and Bath and clearly now I understand we can't do those two in a single day.

So then I am planning the remaining days for London. We already know we want to spend a good part of a day in the British museum. I mentioned earlier that we want to see Kings cross and british library but can't combine that with british museum on travel day. No time to fit it all in and will have to separate them into separate days.

We also would like to see Hampton court and Windsor on different days which are full days in themselves. Any thoughts on those?

I also thought that we could see the city of London sites in one day but that does not seem possible either and should be split into two separate days. Don't forget we need time to see Westminster and all its sites. There is the national gallery and Kensington and V&A. The list goes on and on but the days are limited. Which to choose to do and which to leave out for another time?

Oh, sounds nice. How old is your son again? While in the City he might like to peek into Leadenhall Market, where a scene from H.Potter movie was filmed. It's off Gracechurch Street a little uphill from the Monument. (not to add to your list)

golondon.about.com/od/londonpictures/ig/City-of-London-walking-tour/leadenhall2.htm

You can do Museum of London decent justice in a couple of hours.

If I had to choose between the V&A on a first time trip and the Nat'l Gallery, I'd choose the latter, at least to drop in while in the Westminster neighborhood. Trafalgar Sq. so much feels like the center of things.

What is this diorama you're so fascinated about?

There's a diorama at the Museum of London about the area's prehistory. It's probably the best visualisation of a city's prehistory I've ever seen anywhere - but the London area was mostly a few settlements off a tributary of the Rhine at the time, and while it's great fun to see what Heathrow looked like 10,000 years ago I really can't see it high on most peole's priorities. There used to be a diorama of the Great Fire, but that's not there (or at any rate not accessible) now.

You can spend an hour at the Museum of London, or all day - as at any museum. Unless you're seriously interested in the minutiae of London's history (I've no idea what a "history buff" is supposed to be), the Roman section is currently about the only bit most people would want to examine in depth: otherwise the museum's best for giving you a rapid overview of how the London agglomeration developed from the first Celts chucking things in the river just before the Romans turned up till about 1666.

It's still not clear when the extensions - which say they're going to deal with the story after 1666 - reopen.

As with any itinerary, how long you spend is down to you. The museum's free and about five mins' walk from St Paul's, so there's no commitment required in going to it - and little lost if you just allocate 20 minutes. The point about free museums (and the difference in attitude between Londoners and people from places that don't have such facilities) is that you can just pop in for 10 mins between doing other things.

The point about the Tower Bridge Experience, OTOH, is to let someone make money. There absolutely isn't any other point at all in squandering cash or time on it.

We like diorama's that depict different periods of time and the description for the Museum of London sounded like that is what it does--diorama's prehistory, Roman period, great fire, stuart age, elizabethan age, victorian age, and so on. The period after great fire is suppose to open by spring 2010. It makes the history more interesting and less dry to view as a diorama. In Chicago, we went to a section of the art institute that showed different periods of time for France, England and the US in miniature rooms that were marvelous.

Any other Harry Potter sites we can visit on our own? Gringots bank is the Australian embassy--right? How do you get there?
Does the tower bridge experience only leave you off at the south side by south bank or can you double back to the north side? It maybe worth it for the view if it is a nice day, otherwise I agree to skip and just take the obligatory picture of the bridge from the ground.

Any other suggestions from locals Flanner, JanisJ, CW? What are "must sees" for a first time visitor and what can be saved for another visit or are just pure tourist traps like the tower bridge experience seems to be. But sometimes you do the tourist trap thing anyway if you can gain something from it like a good view.

Avoid the Tower Bridge Experience. It's a waste of time and money (and in any case seeing the bridge is the "experience".)

Also remember that if the Thames were in the USA it wouldn't be in the top 100 rivers - it's small by US standards - so don't fret about walking across it - it only takes 5 minutes.

If you're in that are and want a good view go up the OXO tower for lunch.

"Museum of London sounded like that is what it does"

It doesn't.

The prehistory diorama stops around 43 AD (as a young city, London has a thoroughly unEuropean definition of "prehistory"). The Fire one covered (from memory) 48 hours. Maybe a week.

That's it.

The post-1666 galleries that are opening next year are proper galleries: artefacts, explanations, stuff like that. If you regard that as "dry" - well, that's museums for you.

Always look at flanner's advice; he knows of what he speaks.

OTOH, we did enjoy the Tower Bridge Experience. We had so many free entries all of our days in London that this was one of the very few we had to pay for and so, especially with the 2for1 voucher, it was fine. My engineering husband liked seeing the machinery. We had no children with us, but there were lots of hands on, kid friendly things set up for them there. So, if it fits in your budget and time, it could be a cool thing.

Also, you can check on-line for bridge opening times. We arranged to be on the bridge when it lifted and got some great shots! Your son might find this fascinating (or not--you know your kid). Course, it might not fit into your schedule that day. You can see pretty well from the Tower or from the South Bank, too, but we enjoyed being on the bridge when the vessels glided under.

http://www.towerbridge.org.uk/TBE/EN/BridgeLiftTimes/

Also if you refer back to my trip report Day 11 you'll see the route we took to walk some Roman-ish and history sites around the City on the day when the main draws were ST. Paul's and the Museum (and that day we wound up in late afternoon, a bit earlier than usual, to rest our feet before we were off to the races (Literally!) the next day, so we didn't sightsee in the evening at all that day.) I really liked walking through Postman's Park on the way from St. Paul's to the Museum. Leadenhall Market looked cool but it wasn't "open" so early, but as a movie site just seeing it might be fine for your son.

If he also enjoys Narnia, please don't omit all the Lewis stuff in Oxford! That's a whole 'nother thread, though! Or something not important. (And Tolkien. And Lewis Carroll...)

There's not much Roman stuff extant in London.

There's a Mithrain Temple outside Meryll Lynch (very underwhelming).

There's a small piece of the wall at Aldwych.

And the Arena is under the Guildhall (not often open to the public).

I'm not aware of anything else in the centre - although bits of the street plan echo the Roman city.

Basically the foundations of London are London. Each era builds on top of the last - which is how the Gherkin is in a stret called St Mary's Axe, The main street in the city is Cornmarket etc.

Just in case you don't know...London Walks offers great walking tours, and day train trips to the areas you want to see. All of you will find these tours interesting. Excellent guides.

Thanks so far to everyone.

Texasbookworm,
Where is the narnia thread? He does enjoy all the narnia movies and books.

CW,
Thanks for the info about how long it takes to cross the bridge. I didn't realize it would only be 5 minutes from the Tower Bridge. I read that the millenium bridge takes around 5 minutes but didn't know they are all relatively close to the other side.

Flanneruk,
Some museums are "dry" from my son's perspective. Diorama's are more fun for a child. As for us, we like the "dry" material because we have the patience to read through the descriptions but son does not share the same enthusiasm. You are right though since there is no fee you can spend as much or as little time as you like without wasting any money on the experience, but as a whole we should probably plan on dedicating at least 2 hours right?

Still undecided about the bridge experience. From your and CW posts, it sure sounds like a real money making tourist trap but per texasbookworm, the views are enticing. It will all depend on the weather that day. Son will definitely like being up on the bridge. Shame they have to charge for that though. He would also just appreciate seeing the bridge open so maybe we would just do that and check the schedule for that day.
What are the other "must sees" or "should avoid-not waste time or money"? For the "must sees" how much time do they take on average? Some examples, Hampton Court, Windsor, Cabinet war rooms.

Hampton Court, Windsor, Cabinet war rooms.>>>>

Hampton Court - can be done in half a day. You could make a day of it. Depends IMHO on the weather. I think the best bits are the gardens, so if you have the weather, then I think a boy would enjoy the maze.

Windsor - Castle half a day again depending on the weather your son might well like Eton which is one of Britains (indeed the world's) oldest schools and will give him a taste of a real-life hogwarts.

Pics here:
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=eton&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=

Don't get me started on these upstarts!

Cabinet war rooms - an hour maybe two. I would highly recommend them, especially to a young fellah being taught "history" in the american way.

BTW you mention Kensington, by which I assume you mean Kensington Palace which I think is pants.

Just in case you don't know...London Walks offers great walking tours, and day train trips to the areas you want to see. All of you will find these tours interesting. Excellent guides.>>>

And just to second this. They really are very good. They do all sorts (and I believe they do a Harry Potter tour).

Failing that; apart from the historic stuff they also do ghost walks and pub walks (check your son can go on them)

Yes, I read a lot of great comments about London walks too. And their website is great too. I don't think they cover the film locations on the Harry potter walk because they are too spread apart but they do some magic tricks which may be fun anyway. The other walks all sound facinating. Which ones are the highly recommended ones?

Kensington--Palace, gardens, near south kensington museums and knightsbridge not too far away for Harrods but again can't all be accomplished in one day. So, what to definitely do and what to leave out for another time? I keep adding things to do rather than streamlining.

Save Kensington for another trip. Not essential. Harrods would be far from essential.

When I said thread about Lewis, I meant one that you might start! I don't know of one lately here. But there's certainly tons of stuff on the internet. You need to decide how long you think you'll be in Oxford, do a bit of research (set him to it, too!) to see what people/places you might want to pursue, see if there are any walking tours offered on the days and times you'll be there (and if so, make reservations immediately if required), and plot out a possible itinerary, knowing you won't get to some of it!

Kensington--Palace, gardens, near south kensington museums and knightsbridge not too far away for Harrods but again can't all be accomplished in one day.>>>>

Crikey.

My take: Harrods is usually referred to by people who live here as Horrids. It's a complete tourist trap. Oddly it does do a very good afternoon tea (not cheap). Other than that it's horrible and quite a difficult place to get to.

If in S Ken then I would take a kid to either the Natural History Museum or the Science Museum - they are aimed at a younger audience and have lots of hands on stuff.

I'm 45 and I'm not yet old enough not to be bored into self harm by the Victoria and Albert. When I start to look forward to the V&A I will be off to the Dignitas clinic in Switzerland as my life will be over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dignitas_(euthanasia_group)

ps if your son likes the V&A: be prepared to go to a lot of musical theatre productions in the future.

The NH and Science museum are very easily doable in half a day (and both are free for all).

So, Kensington Palace doesn't get rave reviews--good to note.

South Kensington--spouse will take son to either natural history or science museum while I and mother in law visit the V&A and we can meet up later. I agree son will be bored with V&A. I think science sounds more fun for him than natural history. He used to be into dinosaurs but no more now.

Wanted to see what Harrods looks like (see what the fuss is about) but we have so much shopping opportunities here where we are that going to department stores, any department store is not high on my list. Based on the review, if I don't get there no big deal.

Good idea to get son involved in researching sights to see for narnia and harry potter film locations!

Which London walks tours are the most highly recommended to do? Should I start a new thread on that?

Where is the australian embassy--gringots bank from Harry potter land?

"Diorama's are more fun for a child. "

Than what? You don't (as far as I can see) tell us now old the son is. But I defy any child with the teeniest smidgeon of curiosity to be less interested in the Museum of London's Roman section than in a diorama.

Food, drink, street sounds (including Latin curses) stuff about how we're still digging up dead Romans all over the place.

The younger members of the flannerclan get the Roman bit, a quick gawp at the Lord Mayor's Coach, a check to see if there are any temporary exhibitions with button they'd like to press - then it's out. Exposing anyone under 14 to a museum for over an hour is both cruel and unusual punishment, in my view - and a guarantee they'll never set foot in one again voluntarily.

I'd also investigate the teaching resources at www.museumoflondon.org.uk/English/Learning/Teachers/Resources/Roman+London+resources.htm for kits that will get his mind working a great deal beter than a diorama. And you might try getting him to read Marcus Didius Falco's adventures in London in Lindsey Davis's The Jupiter Myth, and retrace the seedy detective's footsteps.

CW - uncharacteristically - misses a couple of other bits of Rome. There's the bits of wall visible from the Museum (not actually Roman, but rebuilt a few centuries later where the Romans had first built one), the memorial to the city's post-Boudicca praetor, Julius Classicianus (copied in the Museum) copied on the wall to your left as you're walking from Tower Hill tube to the Tower, and the amazing collection of Roman portraits in the Egyptian bit of the British Museum.

The London Walks tour that covers the Wren churches, the Monument and the Roman Wall is outstanding - I've done it twice. It starts at Tower Hill and ends up near St. Pauls. I agree that you can't do the Tower and St. Paul's and the Museum of London in one day. You could easily spend 2-3 days only doing sights in the City of London. I've also been to Leadenhall Market and it is definitely worth an hour or two. There are some nice pubs to have lunch including one that Wren designed for his workers. Some of the Wren churches have noonday concerts and irregular opening times, but they are all worth visiting to see the variety of design.

The Museum of London is ALL about the history of London - the whole museum. From prehistoric times until the present day. There is no London "section".

Go to Londonwalks.com to see list of walks. Very, very good for excursions out of London. Plus Sunday 3pm Harry Potter walk. All London Walks much better than wandering around by yourself trying to find things. London is a very big city and not easy to go from place to place when you have no clue. Not a gridiron layout like NYC. I go to London several times a year to visit family and always do one or more Walks. I took LondonWalks trip to Oxford and was very pleased. fyi..I do not get a commission from London Walks.

I have been on the london walks website and all the walks sound very interesting indeed. They give names to each walk. Which ones are the highly recommended walks that people have been on and enjoyed very much?

P.S. Son is 10 years old, likes museums to a degree--of course the more interesting the presentation or inter-active the exhibit the more likely to hold his interest.

and the amazing collection of Roman portraits in the Egyptian bit of the British Museum.>>>>

That's cheating! I meant the stuff out in the street of which there is very very little (don't forget that the Romans weren't much impressed with London and built their capital at Colchester (which does have a very good museum but little else to recommend it).

If you want to see Roman within easy reach of London you want verulamium - St Albans.

Which ones are the highly recommended walks that people have been on and enjoyed very much?>>>>

I should disclose a slight vested interest as I used to be a guide for another company....A long time ago.

To be honest they're all good. It's probably more a question of picking one that fits your schedule. The literary ones would probably bore the pants off a kid (they bored me - but people like them).

The ghost ones are fun - if a bit hokey.

People will tell you to take the Jack the Ripper ones. Don't. Firstly they're crap (and that's the one I used to do). Secondly they are too gruesome (IMO) for a ten year old. They go into vivid detail about prostitution, evisceration etc.

Your boy can't really go on the pub ones.

Other than that, they're all good.

I have 10 and 13 year old grandkids in London. They have been there all their lives so we have been every kid place in London. Tower of London is best. My kids find museums rather dull unless it relates to something they know about or studied in school. Really like to do wax rubbing at St.Martins in the Field. Burough Market good if buying stuff. Good food there. They like Greenwich Observatory. Even better if you can find how to get there thru tunnel under Thames. Excellent three masted ship docked there. Their best tours have been with guides who could tell them interesting stuff about what they are seeing. Your son will like Harry Potter tour. Do not go on the Beatles tour, not interesting unless you are a serious diehard Beatles fan. Harrods just big usual department store like Macys.

Here's a link to my trip report from 2007:

http://tinyurl.com/yd479lr

We started off with a week in London. We did the Tower, the Tower Bridge Experience, and St. Pauls, in one very full day (Day Five on my report). As I stated back then, we did the Bridge mainly because it was covered on the Great Britain Heritage Pass (which we already had). It provided some nice views, but we skipped the tour of the inner workings of the bridge.

As for other "must see" sites, we saw a lot of them, but not all, by any stretch. Two trips to London and I still haven't made the British Museum, but will someday. Invariably, there are going to be things that you miss.

Elainee and others,

Great suggestions. What other things do the kids really enjoy? Did your grandkids take the Harry Potter tour with London walks?

Texasbookworm,
Read your other thread. Do post your itinerary. We need more organized ideas.

Twk,
A great trip report. How much time did you spend at the tower of london?

Gringots Bank:

Is generally claimed to have been filmed in Australia House (google map WC2B 4LA,about 10 mins' brisk walk W of St Paul's) a complex that includes the Australian High Commission (Australia can't have an embassy here). To avoid disappointment, though, you and your son need to do some pre-research.

I honestly don't know what bits were filmed where. Australia House does include diplomatic premises, and though there are fewer nutters with a grudge against Oz here than against any other country (or rather, all 60 million of us have got a grudge agin the place, but we purge it by hammering them at cricket once a century and going on about it for the next 99 years), internal access is still limited. Though there are bits of Australia House you can meander into, I don't know whether they include what was filmed. There's also a fair amount of computer enhancement of some of those scenes.

Doubtless there's a website somewhere that explains all this - and your 10 year old will be far better qualified to do the research than you are.

I would definitely say that it is possible, it would be a fairly long day, and in my opinion it would really depend on how long you would want to spend at each attraction.

The Tower of London is my personal favourite, as this really signify's old London. From there you can see tower bridge, effectively doing two birds with one stone!

Enjoy.

M
http://www.cheaptravelmoney.com

They like Greenwich Observatory. Even better if you can find how to get there thru tunnel under Thames. Excellent three masted ship docked there.>>>>>

Greenwich foot tunnel is closed for maintenance and the Cutty Sark (ship) burned down.

But there's still plenty in Greenwich - especially if your kid has any interest in matters naval.

ps Excellent police in Greenwich too.

Guess I have not been in Greenwich for a while. Very sad about Cutty Sark. When are you going on this trip? I will be in London and Paris with my NYC 10 yr old grandaughter in mid January for a blitz (leaving NYC Thurs.morning returning Tuesday evening) visit, two days in London and day and half in Paris. We will be with all three kids and I will do report on what they liked to do.

We are not going until next summer. Just trying to do as much research as possible beforehand.

Elainee,
Please do report back as to what they like in both places London and Paris! Looking forward to your report. We would like to take the Harry Potter London walks tour. I like Beattles music but don't intend on taking the walk. Did anyone go on the royal london walk with them that tours the westminster section?

CW,
I read about the cutty sark. The guidebooks report they are repairing it from the 2007 fire damage and it is scheduled to re-open March 2010. Not sure if we will make it to Greenwich. You can take a ferry there from Westminster. How long of a ride is that about 1 hour? The Greenwich meridian line is there but not sure how much appeal that will be to my son. He does like planetariums though. We have been to many. Does the planetarium in greenwich have decent shows?

Flanneruk,
We found info on Australia House located in the strand. Like you said, not sure what is available for the average tourist as far as viewing the film site. Probably more hollywood created than reality but we can point out the location if we pass by the strand.

I read about the cutty sark. The guidebooks report they are repairing it from the 2007 fire damage and it is scheduled to re-open March 2010. Not sure if we will make it to Greenwich. You can take a ferry there from Westminster. How long of a ride is that about 1 hour? The Greenwich meridian line is there but not sure how much appeal that will be to my son. He does like planetariums though. We have been to many. Does the planetarium in greenwich have decent shows?>>

Cutty Sark: Not a chance it will open in 2010. God knows how long it takes to rebuild a ship - but looks bloody complicated from what I've seen.

I can't help with the Planetarium - sorry.

There's lots of other stuff ther that you might like, the National MAritime Museum, the Queens House, the Old Naval College, the Town itself.

I don't know how long it takes on the clipper (boat) but I can't imagine it takes anything like an hour.

On the trains it takes about 15 mins. DLR about 25 (get off at Maritime Greenwich not Greenwich).

It's a good afternoon/morning out. Very compact so it doesn't take long.

You know guidebooks are written far in advance of their release date and not always up to date by the time we get to read them. So their prediction at the time of writing was to have cutty sark re-open by 2010, but like anything else sometimes it takes a lot longer than they originally planned. However, when they want to accomplish something quickly, they can. I watched a skyscraper go up within a year, but a small shopping complex took two to complete. It all is a matter of money and commitment.

The Clipper from Blackfriars to Greenwich took...about 20-30 minutes, I think. I wasn't timing it.

I'd like to suggest that you not gear the whole trip around your son. Make sure and do some things you want to do, whether or not he is enthusastic about your choice.

For Harry Potter filming sites, use the Internet Movie Database - www.imdb.com - to look up each film. You'll find filming locations listed there.

Here's my quick overview of our 2 1/2 days in London:

1st afternoon - did the hop-on, hop-off tour with the Big Bus company. Had dinner, bought some groceries, and collapsed.

2nd day - took the Thames Clipper to Greenwich to see the National Maritime Museum, the Prime Meridian, and the Royal Observatory. Went back into London and took the verger's tour of Westminster Abbey, then walked over to the Cabinet War Rooms and Churchill Museum. That evening, Cholomondley_Warner gave us a quick tour of the South Bank area, and we had dinner at the George Inn. Stopped on the way back to our room for night pictures of the Houses of Parliament, etc.

3rd day - British Library's "treasures room," Platform 9 3/4, the British Museum, and went to see Stomp that evening.

If you click on my name, you can find my UK trip report.

Lee Ann

Thanks ElendilPickle. I did read your trip report. It was very nice that you got a chance to meet up with CW! I'll have to do more research on the George Inn. I do have a few things on my list that I am sure son will not be thrilled about--V&A and national gallery come to mind. But for V&A, I think spouse will venture off to either natural history or science museum nearby.

Did you take any London walks tours?

Hopstop.com will give transportation and walking directions (with times) between any two places in London.
I took Royal London walk, very good. I have taken most of them and liked all. But you need to do the ones to cover your wanted sites. Very good at Westminster Abbey. In fact, imho, all better than doing on ones own. They know more. The trip to Stonehedge and Salisbury cathedral was my favorite. Saw the cathedral, a village, and Stonehedge, plus beautiful countryside. If they still give it, highly recommended. I also like the hop-on hop-off bus. Good for first day when tired and also gives overview. I have always found the guides on the bus to be very knowledgeable and interesting. Have taken it more than once.

Thanks for the hopstop.com website. I didn't know about that one. Someone else mentioned walkit.com which seems useful too.

The GEorge is in Borough High St - just next to John Harvard's (he of the university) house.

Does it have a kid license? I think that is what it is called--to allow kids in to eat? Food is good? Is there anything special to order or is it all just good? How many different kinds of beer do they have?

Yes, yes, no, about a dozen.

Okay. I need help with first day itinerary. We are coming in on eurostar (hopefully this winter's problems will be fixed by then so no further delays but who knows). Will be staying in the Holborn area and will probably be ready to explore at around 3PM. I should mention it would be a weekday.

Should we just do kings cross platform 9 3/4, british library and dinner? That means going back to the kings cross St pancras area or should we do musuem of london and eat dinner in clerkenwell and save the kings cross, british library for the day we are going to do the british museum?

We wanted to do one of the London Walks, but we couldn't fit any into our schedule. I don't think you'll be disappointed, though, if you do one.

If St. Pancras has somewhere you could leave your luggage, you could see Platform 9 3/4 and the British Library after you arrive. They are, basically, right next to each other.

Lee Ann

St Pancras does indeed do left luggage:

http://www.stpancras.com/about-stpancras/amenities/

If your train arrives at 3pm, you could be in the British Library by about 3.30/3.45, which should give you a fair amount of time (as long as you're there during the week - they close at 5pm on weekends and public holidays).

http://www.bl.uk/whatson/

On the other hand, of course, you want to get checked in at your accommodation. If that's in Holborn, I'm guessing you mean the Renaissance Chancery Court (that used to be the

(Hit the wrong key -) Pearl Assurance building, in which case, the BL and King's Cross are a 10-15 minute bus ride, or even shorter tube ride, away.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaround/maps/buses/pdf/holbornstation-2128.pdf

Alternatively, the British Museum would be on your doorstep there, so you could do a bit of that on your arrival day (it's free, so there'd be no hardship in going back again if you get tired or run out of time).

europeannovice: Regarding how long we spent at the Tower, we were there from just before opening at 10:00 (I think) until 1:30 or so. Both my sister and I had been there before, and all three of us had been inside the Tower for the Ceremony of the Keys a couple of days before. You could easily spend a full day there if you wanted. I guess the one thing you might want to do that we didn't on this trip was to walk the ramparts a bit--my sister's leg injury ruled out some of those types of opportunities. The key to efficiently using your time at the Tower is to be there at opening and initially bypass the Yeoman Warder's tour in favor of going to see the Crown Jewels. If you do this, you won't waste a lot of time standing in line for the jewels, and you can go back and pick up the YW tour afterwards. If you go see the jewels later and spend an hour in line to do so, then your trip to the Tower is really going to take up most of the day.