SomewhereOutThere

We will be traveling to Spain for the first time in May 2012 & would appreciate your comments re our tentative itinerary.

Background - We are a couple in our late 50s. We enjoy the entire travel experience – seeing the sites, taking local walking tours, talking to people, the food, the wine, the beer, etc… Our budget is mid-range. When possible, we like to mix big city tourism with a few days in the country or a smaller town. Of course, that means we have to make choices and have to miss some great cities & sites. But, we feel it makes for a more interesting trip.

We arrive in Barcelona on Monday May 7, Depart from Madrid on Monday May 21 - so we have a total of 14 nights. Our flights to & from Spain are set and cannot be changed. We prefer to stay in each hotel we book at least 3 nights, so we won’t be moving all the time. We break that rule once in awhile if there is a good reason to stay somewhere for a night enroute. We do not speak Spanish, but plan to take a CD course to learn some basic words & phrases before the trip.

Here’s the tentative itinerary as it stands now:

Barcelona - 4 nights – Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs (possible daytrip to be determined later)

Fri – Take Vueling Flight to Malaga 9:15AM-10:50AM, Rent Car at Malaga airport, Spend afternoon driving to Ronda via Marbella

Ronda – 3 nights – Fri, Sat, Sun (will have car to drive around surrounding area)

Mon - Drive to Granada, Drop off Rental Car

Granada - 3 nights – Mon, Tues, Wed

Thurs - Take ALSA- Supra+ Bus to Madrid - Assuming the Thursday schedule is the same when we get 60 days out, there is a Supra+ Bus 9:00 – 13:30 – Granada to Madrid Estacion Sur . We originally considered taking the train, but have decided against it due to concerns re limited space to store luggage onboard (see my previous post re Renfe). I believe there is also an Iberia flight 9:45AM – 10:50AM that we could consider.

Madrid - 4 nights - Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun (at least one daytrip to be determined later)


Does it look like it will work? Will it give us the varied experience we’re hoping for? Any suggested changes?

Any opinion re the ALSA Supra+ Bus vs the Iberia flight from Granada to Madrid? Assuming we will be taking a taxi to a hotel in the Madrid City Center, is there a significant time/cost difference between arriving at Madrid Estacion Sur vs. the Madrid Airport?

One more question re the ALSA bus – the Supra+ bus says it makes the trip in 4 hours 30 min, while normal buses on the same route take 5 hours. Both indicate they are direct. Does the Supra+ really get there faster? How do they shave off 1/2 hour? Is it just the time of day?

I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks in advance.

CathyM

I'm surprised you've neglected Sevilla and Cordoba but are spending 3 nights each in Granada and Ronda! As much as I like Ronda I can't imagine skipping Sevilla and Cordoba. Sevilla is a large city but it is very compact in the center and feels much smaller - it is one of the most charming cities in Spain. And Ronda isn't exactly a small town. Honestly I'd take the 3 nights for Ronda and move to Sevilla then also take a night from Granada and add to Sevilla. I know you like 3-nighters (our styles seem similar) but I think it would be worth having 4 nights in Sevilla as you'll definately want to daytrip to Cordoba. The Patio Festival will be happening in Cordoba and it's a beautiful time to visit. The spring Feria in Jerez is May 6-13 and would make another wonderful daytrip from Sevilla.

Overall you're trip is moderately paced considering you're visting 3 areas in 2 weeks. With only 4 nights for Barcelona (and one day likely jetlagged) I doubt you'll have time for a daytrip but you could plan one for a "just in case".

If you are truly so worried about the train and luggage (I wouldn't be even with my large bags)you could fly from Barcelona to Sevilla, then bus from Sevilla to Granada and then bus from Granada to Madrid.

kimhe

This sounds like a good and very doable plan.

I would nevertheless suggest some changes to include Málaga and Sevilla without breaking too much with your 3-days general rule. You might cut down to three days in both Barcelona and Madrid to allow for more time in the South.

Stay at least one night in wonderful and vibrant Málaga city before driving to pictoresque Ronda for one/two nights. Then you are good on your way to Sevilla. I would have cut down on Granada to allow for three days in Sevilla, the queen of the Andalusian if not all Spanish cities. http://www.andalucia.com/cities/sevilla.htm
Excellent and updated info about Sevilla: http://www.exploreseville.com/

May is festival time in both Madrid (San Isidro, the patron saint) and in Andalúcía (Cruces de Mayo, Patio festival, Feria de Córdoba, Jerez horse fair etc). These are events going way back in time and could be great opportunities to excperience the local culture in full blossom. I think you should explore and consider: http://www.spanish-fiestas.com/spani...s/calendar.htm

I keep coming back to how underrated Málaga city is, a huge mistake not to spend some time here when arriving at Málaga airport. (Sorry Fodorites for repeating myself!) A chance to experience genuine Andalusian atmosphere, excellent tapas bars, cafés, and perhaps the most easy-going people in all of the region.

Within three hundred meters in the center, you'll find the recently excavated Roman theater, the 8-11th century Moorish Alcazaba, the huge 16th century Cathedral and both Picasso's birth-place and the new Picasso museum.
"Málaga: Authentic charm of an overlooked treasure"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ci...-treasure.html

About Málaga in Andalucía Magazine:
http://www.andalucia.com/magazine/en...ed2/malaga.htm

I can recommend Don Curro as a good value hotel in the middle of everything.
http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/mala...ncurro.en.html

Here are some more great value mid-range hotels in the most central locations:

Barcelona, Banys Orientals: http://www.hotelbanysorientals.com/

Madrid, Persal: http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/persalmadrid.en.html
or Plaza Mayor: http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/plaza-mayor.en.html

Here are 219 hotels in Sevilla with guest reviews. Many would prefer to stay in the beautiful but quite touristy Santa Cruz area. I prefer to stay in the close by Arenal area or some 10-15 min walking further north, around central Calle Alfonso XII. Much more local atmosphere.
http://www.booking.com/searchresults...1;city=-402849

Fabulous time of year to go, and I'm pretty sure you're up for a very varied trip to remember!

nytraveler

Ronda is a small town and IMHO one night there is plenty (we saw it on a day trip from Marbella). IMHO Seville and Granada are both MUCH more interesting than Ronda and deserve the time more. Be prepared for the south to be quite hot already in May. *We were there in April and it was high 80s in the south and in the upper 90s by the time we got to Madrid by end of April. (Definitely make sure your hotels have good AC.)

kja

I agree with nytraveler - I left Ronda after less than a full day, having seen everything I wanted to see there. (Not that I didn't enjoy it - I did! I was just ready to move on.) Seville and Granada are definitely more interesting, IMHO. Not to mention Cordoba, which I think quite underrated.

Actually, I would consider skipping the south of Spain on this trip and spending more time in the Barcelona and Madrid areas. But to each his/her own!

The good news is that you will see some wonderful things. Enjoy!

Robert2533

You'll have to forgive some people for not reading your draft itinerary, but three days in Rhonda in May, with a car to visit some of the white villages, sounds fine to me. As far as Granada goes, I'd cut it back to two days, keep the rental car, and drive back to Madrid, with one night in Toledo, forgeting about the ALSA bus.

Jocelyne_Marchand

I spent two months in spain last winter - I agree that you do not need to spend 3 nights in Rhonda - I would definitely find a way to get to Sevilla - Jerez is also very, very nice. Spend a few extra days in Madrid because from there you can easily do day trips to Toledo and Segovia- Segovia is especially nice. from Granada you can take the slow train to Rhonda - beautiful trip and very inexpensive -

CathyM

I don't necessarily think 3 days is too much for Ronda and exploring the white villages. However, given a trade off between Ronda OR Sevilla & Cordoba personally I wouldn't hesitate to skip Ronda. If Madrid or Barcelona were not part of the trip I'd add in Ronda and Malaga. Too many great places and too little time is the quandry.

Egbert

Sevilla is my favorite city in Spain. I couldn't imagine a trip to Andalucia without 3 days minimum there. Granada is also one of my favorite places but 2 nights there is good. Not much going on in Ronda but the view from the bridge is nice. The bus in spain does not have bathrooms so keep that in mind for a 5 hr. trip.

kimhe

<The bus in spain does not have bathrooms so keep that in mind for a 5 hr. trip>.

There are at least toilets onboard the ALSA buses.

SomewhereOutThere

Certainly – a toilet is a factor on a 4 hour 30 min ride so I trust that kimhe is correct in saying that the ALSA city-to-city buses have a toilet. Research has given me that impression. If anyone has firsthand knowledge to the contrary – let me know.

SomewhereOutThere

Thanks for all of the comments re the tentative itinerary & additional suggestions.
Please keep them coming.

To those of you who can’t believe I’ve left Sevilla & Cordoba out of the tentative itinerary, my original plan was Barcelona, Granada, Sevilla, Madrid. I changed the plan for two reasons. First, I was bothered by the fact that we would not get to stay in a city where the tour groups empty out at night. Second, Vueling cancelled its midday flight from Barcelona to Granada, leaving only early morning & evening options which I found undesirable. I’m still considering that itinerary, in a different order - Barcelona, Sevilla , Granada, Madrid, but that means we would not get to see the coast and we would not get to visit any of the white hill towns unless we rent a car and drive from Sevilla to Granada, shaving a night or two off of the other cities to stay somewhere en route. Also, I’m concerned that we would be in Sevilla on Fri, Sat, Sun nights when it is probably the most crowded.

I’d like to stick with 4 nights in Barcelona. We will definitely have jet lag on our arrival day, so we really have 3 days to see the sights & consider a daytrip. It also seems like we need 4 nights in Madrid to allow time for Madrid sites plus one or two daytrips. There are so many great daytrip choices there. That only leaves 6 nights. As said above, too many great places, too little time.

Granada & the Alhambra are an absolute must do for us. I originally allocated 3 nights to Granada due to my 3 night minimum rule, plus the fact that we would like to do both the daytime and evening tours of the Alhambra. The evening tour is only available Tues – Sat, so on the current plan, it would be the 2nd night. On the extra day, I thought we could take the local walking tour and maybe the afternoon olive oil tour – www.oliveoiltour.com.

If I stick with the current plan, I will give some thought to 1 night in Malaga & 2 nights in Ronda, rather than 3 in Ronda. I’ve read several trip reports from people who agree Malaga is a very nice place to visit. Robert2533, I will also consider your suggestion that we park the car in Granada & drive it to Madrid, with a 1 night stop in Toledo. If we did that, we could shave a night off of Madrid because we would have covered one of the daytrips. However, it might push the cost of the rental car up quite a bit. Any suggestions re a drop-off point for the car in Madrid? We prefer not to drive into the center of the city.

So far, no one has offered an opinion re the ALSA Supra+ Bus vs the Iberia flight from Granada to Madrid or the time/cost difference between arriving at Madrid Estacion Sur vs. the Madrid Airport. Any opinions on this?

Keep the comments coming. Thanks to all.

CathyM

I think you will be surprised if you think the tour groups empty at night in Ronda. Personally I feel Ronda has a more touristy feel than Sevilla as it's a smaller city and more percentage of locals seem to be focused on tourism. The Santa Cruz area of Sevilla is touristy but if you visit the Arenal or Centro areas (or even more Macarena or Triana) you will likely not even encounter a tourist and highly unlikely a tour group. As far as crowds in Sevilla on Fri, Sat & Sunday nights I'm a little confused about this comment. There will be more locals out on the weekends since they don't have to work. But no more than Madrid where you're spending the weekend. Also, you can always daytrip from Sevilla to Cadiz, Sanlucar, etc... if you want to see the coast.

It will likely be much less expensive arriving in Madrid at Estacion Sur and taking a taxi to your hotel versus taking a taxi from the Madrid airport to your hotel (which is 25-30 euros). I wouldn't think a taxi would cost at most 10 euros. There's a bus that services the airport to central Madrid and I believe a metro line that now services T4 (which would be Iberia) but given your concern about suitcases and taking the train you'll probably want to take a taxi.

Just my 2 cents.

lincasanova

Driving back to Madrid is a very good idea as there are lots of little towns along the way for a stop for coffee, plus, of course, Toledo where you would want to spend the night. I would stay on the Parador "side" of the moat, so as to have simple luggage drop off and retrieval and drive to the central parking lot at the base of Toledo to visit the town, or splurge on a taxi both ways leaving the car at your open air parking at your hotel.

There are several reasonably priced hotel son the other side.. plus you have the spectacular views from there. Everyone ends up over there anyway for a drink or long driving tour, so staying there is not a crazy idea when you have a car.

If you drive, if Consuegra is on your route/ or you can make it on your route, do stop. I also like the plaza at Tembleqeue for a photo opportunity. The plaza at Almagro is also a nice stopover.

lincasanova

typo.. tembleque

josele

I see you've made up your mind for your itin. Wether you stay 3 nights in Ronda or save one for Malaga, once you decide your final itinerary, let it be known here and I'll make suggestions for both. Lots of places around Ronda, and lot to see there. May is a nice month to be in Ronda, the days are long and make great opportunity for daytrips.

SomewhereOutThere

Thanks everyone. I'm still reading trip reports, trying to make sure this is the itinerary we want to go with. I'm still open to comments & suggestions.

CathyM - You're probably correct that I'm over-stressing re the availability of luggage rack storage on the trains, but I haven't been able to get past that concern so far. It would really stress me out if we had to store luggage in another car or even worse, in the area between the cars.

josele -If I stick with the current plan, what's your recommendation - 3 nights Ronda or 1 Malaga, followed by 2 Ronda?

josele

As you are flying into Malaga, you can well spend a night here (I'm Malaga local, with relatives in Ronda). In Ronda, 2night/3days, you can spend time visiting the town and doing the Grazalema-Zahara trip, maybe you can fit something else like Setenil or Genalguacil. You wont need a car in Malaga, take the bus from Airport to city center, book one night at AC Malaga Palacio or Don Curro (depending on your budget, that's my recomendation) and pick your rental car at the railway station, very close to the city center.
Have you a list of Ronda hotels to choose from?

SnLTravel

In Barcelona - I suggest staying at the U232 hotel in Exiample. Its a great hotel - I recommend it for anyone ---> and I have and they loved it too. Read my review on Trip advisor. you'll love it.

SomewhereOutThere

Thanks josele. I've been reading reviews for Ronda hotels listed on tripadvisor, but haven't really narrowed it down at this point. Your suggestions are welcome. Budget is mid-range. Not too fancy, not too plain. Friendly-helpful staff is extremely important.