Orcas

We are thinking of going to the Netherlands to visit family for a few days in April, over spring break. We would be taking our 16 year old son who doesn't appreciate much beyond playing guitar with his friends. We have taken him once to the Netherlands, and also to England (London and York) and Paris (plus Loire Valley).

I figure we'll have about four days after we visit our family, to spend anywhere in Europe. I am thinking Rome, Naples, and Pompei (and Amalfi coast) might be lively and interesting to our son. We would be leaving Easter Sunday which might not be the best time to be in Italy. I realize Greece might be great, too, but I'm trying to minimize travel. Anyone have other thoughts? Remember, we're not talking a teen who enjoys museums, shopping, or art. We're talking a teen-age Neanderthal.

suze

How about Amsterdam?

Orcas

We were in Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Delft and Gouda a few years ago with the kids and we saw some of the attractions in each. We biked the kinderdike, too, which was fun.

We'll be visiting family in Rotterdam when we go, and will visit the tulip gardens and probably the flower market and take in a couple of other sites in the Netherlands the first part of the week.
We could visit more of the Netherlands. I think the big dam project would be of interest.

SAnParis

I would guess you'll be losing one of your four days just in travel time if you go to Italy. Paris comes to mind...

nukesafe

Why don't you have him do a bit of research and find out where he could meet up with others in Europe with whom he could play his guitar? That would get him to buy into the trip, and perhaps make things more worthwhile for all of you.

PrincessOfPenguins

take him to see those cave paintings made by his Neanderthal peers ;-)

Orcas

Don't feel too sorry for our son. He is actually quite happy and well adjusted. My point is his love is for his music - his garage band. He is a typical teen, more interested in being with his friends than in being with his parents. He would rather stay home and cut cd's with his friends, if they can find a recording studio. We, his awful parents, feel that a trip to visit his family in Europe would be a fine thing to do with his spring break and that he can find other times to make his recordings. We do recognize that he is not interested in seeing a lot of museums or roaming the streets looking at architecture and he is not interested in shopping. We would like to go somewhere that is lively and that he would find fun and interesting. I would like some ideas from people more familiar with Europe than I am. If you would prefer to attack my parenting skills, well, have at it, as I obviously am not in a position to delete my post myself.

Orcas

And he does not use drugs. Honestly, some of you people make posting not a lot of fun.

nukesafe - is there any way we could connect him with other kids who play music? That is a great idea, but I don't know how to do that. I don't believe my brother knows other people in that age, as his kids are younger.

alya

Orcas - I feel your pain! we have a 16yr old as well and unlike other posters here I read your post with a sense of humour.

As far as our son is concerned, it's not that he doesn't enjoy things it's more that he doesn't want to appear to be enjoying himself with his parents - SO uncool!

Luckily I have friends who have children the same age and I know I'm not alone. My mind was put at rest when I checked out myspace.com, I searched for his email address and found his page where his friends were raving about him and his sense of humor and how wonderful he was. I know he's a good guy and I'm glad his friends do also.

ceoconn

I hated all those things when I was 16 too and now I love them. Definitely give him a choice in destination if you have 4 days- he can surf the web or this site. You have to make a committment to honor his choice even if it holds no appeal to you. It's no different than if your spouse is gungho to see somethinig you really don't care for, but you do it out of love and a wish for them to be happy. My parents did that when we were all between 13-20 and did a road trip from Dallas to Hartford. I chose the Kentucky Horse Park, which no one really wanted to go to, but ended up having fun any way. A 16yo who has the same taste/interests as a parent spends too much time with them.

Mucky

Orcas, I think all us parents that currently have teenagers will associate with your dilemma. And I for one think it is a fact of life that many teenagers behave in a 'diffent' non conforming way, this is their way of finding themselves. So don't feel bad or accept comments about bad parenting from those who are not in your situation.
Our son (18) just gone to university to study law, he stopped grunting around 18mths ago, my daughter (15) has just started..lol
They are great kids but they are teenagers !! a strange breed of creature.
And though we always love them we don't always like them.
Muck

LJ

Having squired whole busloads of Neanderthals (some related to me) around Italy, as a teacher in that country, I absolutely endorse both Rome as a destination and the use of that adjective to describe the average youth of that age.

Just when you think they can't reach any lower in their lack of appreciation of art, history, beauty or even civilization itself, they descend to mooning, for example, the crowds in line at the Vatican (yes, it really happened...)

On the other hand, when you begin to think an entire generation is beyond recall, they turn from Neanderthals into Renaissance men (and women). They find a painting that calls to them (try Caravaggio-much available in Rome). They see a moving sight of family life on Roman streets and write a poem about it and, blushingly, show it to you. They suddenly "get" the real meaning of the Roman Coliseum and the life and death battles enacted there. They confide in you and you realize that under all that bluster, bravado and BS are real people.

Patience, my friend, and a dose of Rome alone just might do it...

Ceci

OMG, here comes the Fodor's patrol that doesn't have a bit of sense of humor!

Don't you realize that Orcas is not censuring or exposing his/her son, but trying to plan a trip that he enjoys?

We all, parents, have been an adolescent some day, and we all understand ( or should, at least) that they've their own preferences and idiossincrasies. What Orcas is doing is to try to picture him so that to get the advise she/he needs, other than people suggesting historic sites, museums, art galleries and the like.

Where I live, we call adolescents "abohrrecents" ( in English wold be "annoyenscents) because of their particularities, and that doesn't mean that we don't love them, but rather that we understand them, as we've been like them some day.

suze

I don't know exactly, but somewhere on the internet I'll guess there's a way to hook up with other musicians his own age in Europe? Or maybe a musical festival somewhere than could be central to those extra few days on the trip?

LoveItaly

Hi Orcas, I am smiling because my 19 year old grandson just came out of his teenage mode last Friday evening and kept his parents up hours past midnight talking to them. They have been praying for this but not for six hours straight when everyone needed to go to bed, LOL. He since then has been like they have longed for..the Neanderthal Teen is evidently history!

Now, I do not know the minimum age for admittance but I wanted to mention that another grandson and his band partners were in the Netherlands last January. Their band played in various clubs/restaurants etc. They really had a fantastic week by the way.

Your post and my grandson's band going to the Netherlands got me thinking that perhaps you could find some venue he could go to where there are bands playing. Imagine that would interest him. Best wishes to you and your family.

Dejais

Orcas,

Obviously those who are criticizing have never been subjected to lengthy travels with teenage sons/daughters who are pained by the very thought of having to be seen with their parents much less engage in any kind of activity with them!

All I can say is....been there, done that...and am happy they have grown to be normal, happy adults. Now, I just pray that they (as my own mother told me) will each get one just like them!

ira

Hi Orcas,

I suggest Paris.

There is music every night that he can relate to.

He might even find the city interesting.

Encouurage him to start researching what's hot and where.

Here's an example:

http://www.understandfrance.org/Paris/Notebook.html



Doesn't he have a Dutch uncle who can speak to him like .... a Dutch uncle?

rsb99

Regarding the music idea, this might work: Have him go to the web sites of his favorite bands, and check their touring schedules. There's a chance he might get lucky and have the opportunity to see a concert. Even if that doesn't work out, he may be able to get a lead on some other festval or event that would coinicide with your schedule. I'm too far from 16 to remember, but I THINK I remember that this would be cool !

PalenqueBob

Maybe you could convince some of your sons friends' parents to pay for them to go on the trip with you - then i'm sure your son would feel less isolated. In Amsterdam there is a plethora of live music and places like the Melkweg, a city-owned youth center, have live bands most nights as does the Paradiso and many Dutch teens flock there. And as the drinking age in holland for beer is 16 that may also entice them, or deter you from letting them off on their own! Most Dutch towns also have city-owned youth centers open to all. In Amsterdam they may enjoy renting the pedalos boats and doing their own canal tour. And if they are at all decent musicians they could try their hand at busking - being sidewalk musicians - a time-honored and popular pasttime in Europe that seems to be tolerated by authorities.

Orcas

Thanks for the positives from many of you. Many people with teens understand, I see. There are some teens that enjoy doing "adult" type of activities, and others who are immersed more in the interests they share with other teens. My son is the latter, and we want to ensure he has a good trip. I also see this as a time he can learn and grow.

The reason I was contemplating Italy was because it should be bright and sunny (and we will be emerging from the long dark Pacific Northwest winter), and it is full of history he has studied and will be studying again. Seeing ancient Rome might bring it to life for him. And what boy (or even grown-up) isn't fascinated by Pompeii?

Italy is a bit far to go, though, taking up valuable time in travel as was noted above. It would be ideal if we could find something really close by to do. Paris is indeed closer, as suggested, but he has been before. I'd like to expose him to a different place.

I will have my brother look up music club type places in the Netherlands. That is a very good idea.